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12:05 AM
Does anyone know of some (preferably old so as to be kinder to me) papers that use modular forms quite a bit? I'm asking so as to become more proficient in their use
 
@Alyosha In what context?
 
Any
 
Have you tried some standard book, like Diamond-Shurman? It's a survey solely about modular forms in connection with number theory.
 
I'll say if I don't understand the context.
Yes, but I'd like some other things along with books.
 
@Alyosha No idea. I have only read surveys about modular forms.
 
12:07 AM
I'll restate the question, so on skimming through people don't think that you've answered it.
Does anyone know of some (preferably old so as to be kinder to me) papers that use modular forms quite a bit? I'm asking so as to become more proficient in their use.
 
The problem is that most of the works related to modforms are highly technical. (I've starred the message, btw)
If you know representation theory, you can just search up [monstrous moonshine surveys] and look some stuffs up. I haven't studied it though.
 
As far as I understand it, there isn't a known reason for the relation to MF. And thanks for the star.
 
@Alyosha there is. it's recently proved by Borchardt.
@Alyosha Are you familiar enough with hyperbolic geometry? that's another way to look at MFs.
@Alyosha The only connection with modforms I have really studied and fiddled with a bit comes from quintics.
 
I am, but I'm very keen on looking at some papers.
To be honest, it will be more effective googing, as I know what exactly I want more than people after reading my short question.
Anyway, I need to sleep now. Good night!
 
@BalarkaSen Borchardt?
 
12:16 AM
@MikeMiller I probably messed up with the name.
 
@Alyosha Maybe look into Hardy and Ramanujan's early papers on the $\tau$ function.
@BalarkaSen Richard Borcherds?
 
Ah yes. I was thinking of someone else.
Borchardt was an algebraic geometer.
 
Never heard of him or her.
 
You won't. There's some transformation stuff on double theta functions which relates a special sextic to Klein's quartic that we call Borchardt's transform.
It's mentioned at King's beyond the quartic. I think it's also in Elkies' lectures in eight-fold ways.
anyway, dunno why they call it that.
 
Doesn't appear in the Elkies notes you mention.
 
12:24 AM
then it's in King. =)
 
But you have successfully made me lose interest :)
 
I am ashamed of my superficial knowledge on some stuffs sometimes. ={
 
What do you mean by that?
 
It's just that I feel like I name a lot more than I really know.
 
May I be frank?
 
12:28 AM
Sure, go ahead.
 
I think you used to, but don't anymore.
 
Sneakiest. Answer. Ever.
 
No, that's a compliment. Well, it's also simultaneously an insult of past you, but it's a compliment of current you.
 
Err, thanks.
 
:P
But it's current you that matters!
 
12:31 AM
Fair enough. I can get some sleep in peace then.
 
:P
@BalarkaSen I hope that wasn't hurtful, it wasn't intended to be.
 
12:44 AM
Well said @MikeMiller
 
Hi
in the confluent hypergeometric function we have M(a,b,c) and U(a,b,c) what is the difference between them?
 
@BalarkaSen Studying harder things, even though you have a limited understanding of them, makes it possible to understand fully the easier things.
 
gah i just realized i can't sleep.
@MikeMiller no no. i am glad you think that i don't do that anymore.
 
1:00 AM
@BalarkaSen Howdy.
 
hey @AntonioVargas!
 
@BalarkaSen I like to have a midnight snack when I can't sleep.
 
i just got some but it's not midnight anymore. it's 6:30 AM
i think i'll be up the whole day.
 
@BalarkaSen Haha, good morning then.
 
good morning/night/evening/nothing to you too.
what's the time there?
 
1:03 AM
@BalarkaSen 10pm
 
ah, sleepy sleepy.
well, not always actually
 
I'll probably be up for a while. I usually go to sleep around 1:30am or so
 
$c_{k, n}$ is the number of integer partitions of $k$ in two parts, each of size at most $n$
 
Nice. I might have tried to compare the sum to $$\int_1^n \int_1^n \frac{dx\,dy}{x+y}.$$
 
Interesting approach
But no number theory. As per Lang, that is shit.
=D
 
1:10 AM
lol
For the kinds of things I like to study I'm finding analytic methods to be really the best options
so it's what I try first nowadays :)
 
I have certain kind of mental blocks about analysis, especially real.
I have no problem with complex analysis however. NT and CA are friends.
 
@barznjy I meant to reply earlier, sorry. They're the two linearly-independent solutions to a linear 2nd order DE. Most of the time M is analytic at the origin and U isn't; that's pretty common for those types of DEs in my experience.
@BalarkaSen I could never really tell the difference between the two. I have a blind spot for higher dimensions though.
 
@AntonioVargas [real] analysis is analysis of [real] ly ugly functions.
 
@BalarkaSen Truth. Complex analysis is analysis of beautiful functions :)
 
@BalarkaSen If your taste is for fields that have significant interplay with number theory, I'm afraid you should like almost all of mathematics. :)
 
1:18 AM
@MikeMiller If I ever find out a good enough connection with number theory, I'll immediately start out reading.
It's not that I have taste for fields that have interplay with NT, but fields with interplay with NT such that I can understand those interplays.
 
@BalarkaSen Tate's thesis ties harmonic analysis with number theory, and the space of square-integrable functions on certain topological groups is often very important. Is that a good excuse?
 
Off the top of my head. Sorry.
@MikeMiller Not too surprised that harmonic analysis is connected to NT though. Terry Tao is essentially a harmonic analyst =)
 
@BalarkaSen I don't understand it either, I'm just throwing out examples. I'm certainly not an analyst, I dislike the taste. But nowadays, many different fields are inextricably linked to each other, but especially to number theory
 
Man. Harmonic analysis... algebraic number theory... that stuff is too complicated for me.
 
My main interests are wondering in complex analysis, number theory and algebra nowadays.
I hope I am not going to turn into an arithmetic geometer. I can't live without hard-core algebras.
 
1:25 AM
@BalarkaSen Arithmetic geometry is some of the most hardcore algebra out there...
 
oh?
as i said, my ignorance is vast.
 
@MikeMiller Dis
 
@BalarkaSen As it turns out, $z^7$ is a much harder case.
 
Hmm. I have to make another glance.
 
1:29 AM
I should note that it's all nonsense to me.
If you want to be convinced it's serious algebra, skip to, say, section 5 of the first linked paper.
 
I can't imagine any geometric interpretation of $x^2 + y^3 = z^7$, unlike the $5$ case which is a syzgy of the icosahedral invariants (fortunately i have studied that a little for the connection with quintics).
But if it's $X(7)$ then there must be Klein's quartic involved.
 
I'm going to go make some pasta. Goodnight/good morning, you two.
 
@BalarkaSen Totally out of my league, so I can't comment.
 
such math. so dazzling. much cryptic. wow
it's filled with cohomology/homology and galois theory of covering spaces!
ughhh.
 
@BalarkaSen Not quite. I think you're thinking of the introductory algebraic topology stuff, but whenever you see the term 'covering', it's an analogue of the concept more applicable to algebraic geometry (the topology on varieties is no good for standard algebraic topology). And there are many, many different homology and cohomology theories.
But again I know nothing.
 
1:37 AM
@MikeMiller if you want to know about the $x^2 + y^3 = z^5$ case, in the case of an icosahedron inscribed inside a unit sphere, there are three main invariant polynomials left unchanged by the symmetries of the icosahedron, the vertex polynomial which vanishes at the vertices, edge polynomials which vanishes at the midpoint of the edges and face polynomials which vanished at the midpoint of the faces.
however, these polynomials satisfy some $X^2 + Y^3 + Z^5 = 0$ relation, which apparently resembles that generalized fermat equation. on the other hand a quintic can be algebraically transformed into a modular equation for $j$ at $n = 5$.
that is why I suspected that $x^2 + y^3 + z^5 = 0$ over $\Bbb CP^1$ might just be something like $X(5)$, which is confirmed by Elkies.
what's more, it turns out that $X(5)$ is a riemann sphere with 12 points removed, precisely the ones that form an icosahedron!
rather interesting, but most of it looks like coincidences to me. of course, they aren't.
oh, and i forgot to mention that quintics and icosahedron are intimately connected : the 5 tetrahedrons that can be canonically inscribed inside an icosahedron are representatives of the roots of a special quintic.
i don't know what kind of black magic that might be involved with that 7 case though.
'nough said!
 
@BalarkaSen Hello.
...And bye.
 
2:07 AM
Has anyone here studied Ramanujans notebooks?
 
2:18 AM
okay y'all, i got an analysis question.
well, actually a probability question.
question is, why is a $\sigma$-algebra defined using only countable unions and intersections?
the way i'm understanding it, the $\sigma$-algebra generated by an observer is the collection of events he can decide the truth and falsehood of.
there must be something that happens when we allow uncountable unions/intersections that is undesirable with respect to that interpretation, but i can't think of an example.
 
You're missing a bit of context, because what you're really asking about is the choice of $\sigma$-algebras over a different kind of structure without saying what the choice is for.
 
What are the valid values for $h$ in this simple equation : $(3-h)x=0$
?
I say $h \in \Re$ and $ h \neq 3$, why is not this true?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:47 AM
Anybody there? @Sawarnik @AlexanderGruber @robjohn @barznjy
^^
 
@FractalHand hi
 
@AlexanderGruber Hi
@AlexanderGruber I faced such thing in elementary row operation.
 
what's that now?
 
@AlexanderGruber Why is not it true?
 
@FractalHand did you try it
 
i know. my question is, did you test your answer to see if you were right?
 
@AlexanderGruber Yeah, the books says for all $h$
 
@FractalHand it's ok, you don't need the book
test your answer
how could you test if you were wrong?
 
but I say why? what if we divide both sides by $3-h$, then $\frac {0}{0}$ is not defined
@AlexanderGruber That was an example whether I'm wrong, let me give you the question.
 
here is a similar question. If I tell you that x + y = 0 is not true for x = 1 and y = -1, how can you prove to me that I am wrong?
 
3:53 AM
@AlexanderGruber I know, I plug it in.But let me give the question.
 
Just curious, what is the advantage of using the product rule as opposed to expanding and using the power rule?
 
@nitrous2 can you give me an example?
 
@AlexanderGruber Determine the value(s) of $h$ such that the matrix is augmented matrix of consistent linear system. $$\begin{bmatrix}
1 & h & 4\\
3& 6 & 8
\end{bmatrix}$$
 
differentiate y=(2x-3)(5x-1)
 
3:55 AM
@nitrous2 Its easier in many cases I think.
@FractalHand Hi.
 
@nitrous2 $(uv)' = u'v+v'u $
 
@nitrous2 let me give you a different problem. (1+x+x^2+x^3)(1+x+x^2+x^3)
 
@AlexanderGruber ?
 
@FractalHand how are you defining "consistent"?
 
so in this case its more efficient to use the product rule?
 
3:57 AM
@AlexanderGruber Having at least one answer.
 
@nitrous2 right.
 
so basically, the more terms inside, the more likely product rule is faster
 
@FractalHand ok. so you want for $1\times 6 - h \times 3 \ne 0$.
 
@AlexanderGruber Let me paraphrase the problem, $$\begin{eqnarray*}x_1+hx_2 &=& 4 \\ 3x_1+6x_2&=&8\end{eqnarray*} $$
 
interesting, @Balarka. thanks for the coments.
 
3:58 AM
what is newline in latex?
Thanks
for fixing :)
 
no prob
 
@AlexanderGruber The question is asked considering the reader being unaware of anything called "determinant".
So I have to solve it without even knowing about determinant.
 
@FractalHand ah, okay.
well, i think the problem is just that you've factored it wrong.
$6-3h=3(2-h)$
 
No, what I asked before was a simple example to see whether I'm right or not.
I have to solve the problem with elementary row operation.
 
haha, okay. let's back up, then, i am mixed up. what exactly is your question?
 
4:02 AM
@AlexanderGruber Determine the value(s) of $h$ such that the matrix is augmented matrix of consistent linear system
@AlexanderGruber Let me ask another question, this problem is resolved.
 
4:50 AM
@FractalHand any value of $h$ is valid, but to deduce that $x=0$, one needs $h\ne3$.
 
r9m
5:41 AM
@robjohn are you there ? :)
 
hi hi
 
r9m
@usukidoll hello usukidoll =)
 
hi hi
don't you hate it when you have a very long proof problem and it says without assuming this particular theorem prove...blah blah blah
ugh... the only proof I could get is the odd integers one...
 
r9m
@usukidoll 'without assuming' in the sense you have to prove it first in order to derive your result with the aid of the theorem .. or is it in the sense .. do it without the theorem (ie independent solution) ?
 
so wait what.... so I have to prove the particular theorem first
wait wait... I don't have my number theory book with me... it's in the living room. I was going to attempt after dinner. It said something about without assuming theorem 2.1...something to do with positive integers.
 
r9m
5:56 AM
depends on the interpretation of 'without assuming'
 
could mean don't use the theorem. but how the heck can you prove something without using the rules (theorems) impossible!
 
r9m
what's the problem statement ?
 
chotto matte (wait a minute)
 
r9m
=) you speak Jap ? =)
 
oh wait I have the ebook version as well XD! Just realized it
studying it hai
Without assuming Theorem 2-1, prove that for each pair of integers j and k (k>0), there exists some integer q for which j-qk is positive
Theorem 2-1 (Euclid's Division Lemma) states that for any integers k (k>0) and j, there exist unique integers q and r such that $ 0 \leq r < k$ and j=qk+r
I feel like using theorem 2-1 on this
but why without assuming really?
 
r9m
6:03 AM
@usukidoll ic .. how about proving by contradiction ?
 
as in suppose that there doesn't exists an integer q for which j-qk is positive.
so I should somehow get a negative somewhere
as in j-qk is negative and there doesn't exist an integer q
 
r9m
@usukidoll ya .. so j-qk is non positive for all q
 
hmmm... so hmmm... suppose j-qk is negative and there doesn't exist an integer q. Then .. -j+q(-k). oh x*(!
hmmm the whole j-qk isn't positive... for all q... for all integers in q, there exists a pair of integers j and k that are negative?
so we have -j and a -k?
 
r9m
I purple .. :P
 
pot?
WHAT!
 
r9m
6:11 AM
you should check google how to prove by contradiction first .. if not prove Euclid's lemma and establish the result :|
either way its fairly easy
 
contradiction is a negative version of a statement
 
r9m
yas .. I mean what is the negative of 'for each pair of integers j and k (k>0), there exists some integer q for which j-qk is positive' ?
 
make it negative
That would mean that for any integers k (k>0) and j there doesn't exist unique integers such that $0 \leq r <k$ and j=qk+r
there isn't a pair of integers j and k (k>0)
there doesn't exist some integer q for which j-qk is positive.
so .. q must be negative.
 
r9m
oops .. I think I'm too purple to continue this conversation :{ sorry .. I'm seeing blurry :o
 
ughhh
I can only prove if a and b are odd integers then $a^2-b^2$ is divisible by 8
that would mean that a = 2k+1 and b = 2j+ 1... from that other book I had.. I recognized the terms "odd integers"
 
r9m
6:16 AM
what has that to do with the original problem ? :o
 
if a and b were even integers I would have something like a = 2k and b = 2j
I am doing another problem...it seems that one is easier because it feels familiar
but the term without assuming theorem 2.1 for the first question threw me off
like do I use it or not? :O
 
r9m
@usukidoll use it .. if it feels familiar =)
 
I'm still new at this... I only know easy straight forward proofs like #6 in the book
# 1 4 and 5 are all connected crap to theorem 2.1 which is what I typed
 
r9m
hmm .. may the force be with you =) \/m
 
sighhhhhhhhhh
so ok do I use the negation of theorem 2.1 for the first question?
 
r9m
6:20 AM
@usukidoll nah ,. I meant its easy to prove that the negation of the problem statement is easy to prove false :|
 
so I have to prove that the negation of th 2.1 is not true then
which means somewhere theresdklaj;fdsjrewrio
I need food... can't prove without munchies
 
r9m
wat !
@skull save me puhlease :O
 
:/
 
r9m
oh btw greetings @skullpatrol
 
6:23 AM
Hello everybody.
 
@r9m well apparently the first exercise is important otherwise I can't do 4 and 5 XD. I can do 6 without problems thoguh
though
hi skully
 
Hi pal
 
doing ghetto proofs again skully only some are easier than others... for #6 the theorem was in my other book
so I couldn't do it until I got home :P
hard proofs are crap ._.
mmm eggrolls and kimchi saimin
then I'll read the book
and my other one because it has the even and odd integer theorem that I need for #6
 
r9m
@robjohn can you check my proof here(Addendum1) when you have free time ? :) ..
 
6:29 AM
:(
 
r9m
In the mean time I need to sleep .. and dream I'm on cloud9 =P
bbl
 
:'(
-.-
 
6:52 AM
Has anyone ever read some book or seen some lecture where various integral forms have been denoted as $I_1$ to $I_{25}$ and special methods have been given to solve them?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:54 AM
Let x_n be a real number sequence and b = lim sup x_n. Let A_k = sup{x_n}_(n>=k) which ends up forming a sequence of supremums of the original sequence ( starting at gradually increasing indexes ) . What's the proof that for every e >0 , there exists w>=k such that b - e < x_w < A_k ?
 
8:08 AM
@nerdy If you install bookmarklets from here, you would be able to use latex syntax in chat, which is more readable.
I suppose you do not have it installed, so you it makes no sense for me to write somethings like $b=\limsup x_n$ and $a\le b \le c$.
Anyway you should clarify your question a little bit.
You wrote b-e < x_w < A_k ($b-\varepsilon < x_w < A_k$).
What is k? (You prefaced this with "for each e>0 there exists w".)
Did you mean to say for each e>0 and for each k?
And I think that you should have non-strict inequality $x_w\le A_k$, otherwise it is not true. (Think about constant sequence.)
In any case, if you are given e>0 then there exist k0 such that for k>k0 you have A_k > b-e. (This is from the definition of limit.)
Since $A_k=\sup_{w\ge k} x_w$ you get existence of $w\ge k$ such that b-e<x_w. (From the definition of supremum you have that for any number $L<A_k$ there exists some element betwen L and $A_k$.)
I guess you should be able prove your claim (after clarifying what exactly you mean) by using arguments like that.
 
Hi, man, thanks for the answer. What is \ge ?
is it < ?
nvm
indeed, i forgot to say for all e>0 and for all k
and you are right, it should be b-e < x_w <= A_k
 
$\ge$ is >=
Seriously, try to use the bookmarklets.
 
I always used it here, but my firefox browser is so bugged , i can't access the bookmarks from anywhere
wait
i think i got it
 
oh, I did not know that
BTW what you asked here seem to be close to this question on the main: Characterization of lim sup, lim inf
 
Totally got it now, you are awesome
thanks :)
I'm on real analysis course at college we are seeing sequences ... i'm curious, is this whole deal of lim sup and lim inf used later ( in series, topology, functions, etc ) ?
 
8:24 AM
And this question seems also somewhat related.
I think it is useful to know about limsup, liminf. In many situation when you are trying to prove that some limit exists, you estimate limsup and limiinf separately.
Some things are defined using limsup, for example various densities in number theory.
I would expect that it could be useful more often in various area analysis (functional analysis and similar stuff) than in topology.
 
why are some proofs crazy to do?
 
This is very naive test to see whether limsup is used in more advanced stuff: limsup "graduate texts".
 
haha, indeed interesting idea to use the search mechanism
 
@nerdy Since you have mentioned series, limsup also appears in some convergence tests.
 
hiho
 
8:43 AM
rawr
 
:-O
 
9:45 AM
Sanity check: if $f$ is analytic on $\Bbb{C}$ and has zeroes on $S$, will $1/f$ be analytic on $\Bbb{C}-S$?
 
10:15 AM
rawr
 
Gee A question on the main how to format equations and it has 2 upvotes. What is wrong
 
link?
hmmm testing my latex $ n \in Z$ wee
I should post a question on main regarding a proof containing a being an odd integer that's divisible by 12 ... I know what the theorem is talking about. I just want to see if I'm on the right track
 
Adding $2$ absolute values together: $|x+2| + |x-3| =5$ and Solving $|x-2| + |x-5|=3$. The two questions are basically the same, they are of the form $|x-a|+|x-b|=b-a$, Should they be closed as duplicates?
The older one is closed as a duplicate of a question of the type $|x-a|-|x-b|=a-b$. (I.e., difference instead of sum.) I am not sure that these two should be considered duplicates. (This remark is directed to @robjohn, who closed the question using mod-dupe-hammer.)
 
10:46 AM
@r9m. What did you think of the last Naruto episode?
 

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