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12:33 AM
@Thorgott Qing Liu
Algebraic geometry and arithmetic curves
12:50 AM
havem't read, but heard good things
1:34 AM
@leslietownes what can I say? I'm an optimist.
 
5 hours later…
6:38 AM
@Bml great proof...
i kept using the same argument but without using differentiation. so it got me nowhere
it seems one needs continuity of second derivative as as assumption
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Now see these:
18
Q: Find continuous functions such that $f(x+y)+f(x-y)=2[f(x)+f(y)]$

BenjiHere is the problem: Find all continuous $f:\mathbb{R}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ which satisfy $$f(x+y)+f(x-y)=2[f(x)+f(y)]\;\;\;(1).$$ Here is my attempt: Fix $\delta>0$ and let $C=\int_{0}^{\delta}2f(y)dy.$ Then $$\begin{align*} 2\delta f(x)+C&=\int_{0}^{\delta}2[f(x)+f(y)]dy\\ &=\int_{0}^{\...

niceee
Bml
Bml
10
Q: Functional Equation (no. of solutions): $f(x+y) + f(x-y) = 2f(x) + 2f(y)$

priyaFind all the functions $f\colon\mathbb{Q} \to \mathbb{Q}$ such that $f(x+y) + f(x-y) = 2f(x) + 2f(y)$, for all rationals $x,y$.

@Bml it seems E(0)=0 is not an assumption then. Sorry
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude In what sense?
6:43 AM
oh ofc it's not an assumption
it follows by setting x=y=0
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude See also this:
@RyderRude Could we examine these proofs? Can we start from the first I sent?
@Bml sure, but idk some steps used there
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude OK, but let's try...
1) Setting $x = y = 0$, we have $E(0) = 0$
Bml
Bml
2) Setting $x = 0$, we have $E(y) + E(-y) = 2 E(y) + 2 E(0)$, and using $E(0)=0$, we have $E(y) = E(-y)$.
6:55 AM
yes
idk the strong induction part tho..
u can instead use the twice differentiability proof.why are u making life harder for urself
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Now we have to prove by induction that $E(n y) = n^2 E(y)$.
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude What is this argument?
@Bml this one
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude This is for $f(2x) = 4 f(x)$, not for $f(x+y) + f(x-y) = 2f(x) + 2 f(y)$...
7:04 AM
f((k+1)x)= f(Kx+x)= 2f(Kx) + 2f(x)- f((k-1)x)=(-(k-1)^2 +2 + 2k^2)f(x)= (k+1)^2 f(x)
i think this is the induction
so this proves it for all rational numbera
and then continuity gives it for all real numbera
@Bml there is nothing wrong with that. Start with the latter eqn. It implies the former, and then use the proof
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude 1) Why $f((k+1)x) = f(Kx+x)$?
hmm?
sorry it should be k on the right instead of K
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude OK. 2) Why $f(kx+x)= 2f(kx) + 2f(x)- f((k-1)x)$?
it follows from f(a+b)+f(a-b)=2f(a)+2f(b)
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Ah OK, I got it. 3) Why 2f(kx) + 2f(x)- f((k-1)x)=(-(k-1)^2 +2 + 2k^2)f(x)$?
Maybe because we are assuming $f(nx) = n^2 f(x)$?
7:19 AM
it follows from induction hypothesis, yes
Bml
Bml
7:29 AM
@RyderRude Now, substituting $n \mapsto m/n$, we have $f(m/n x) = \frac{m^2}{n^2} f(x)$, right?
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Why?
they have given the correct argument. U have to substitute x=n*x/n first
Bml
Bml
7:50 AM
@RyderRude I don't understand why... Could you explain?
8:09 AM
@Bml ok so we have proved : for all natural n and real x, f(nx)=n^2f(x)
now f(x)= f(n* x/n)= n^2 f(x/n), as x/n is a real number
so this proves 1/n^2 f(x)= f(x/n) for all real x and natural n
and then prove for rational numbers m/n
f(m/n x)= f(1/n mx) = 1/n^2 f(mx) (using the previous result we proved)
and then 1/n^2 f(mx)= m^2/n^2 f(x), using f(mx)=m^2 f(x)
so f (m/n x)= m2/n2 f(x) for all real x and natural m, n
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Why is $x/n$ a real number?
@Bml x is real and n is natural??... why do u keep asking this type of stuff?
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Sorry, I don't follow.
@Bml Are you doubting that e.g. $\pi / 3$ is a real number?
@RyderRude there's a tiny point of sloppiness here: you can't have $n = 0$
in which case $x / n$ would indeed not be a real number
@BenSteffan yes... we should technically say $n \neq 0$ in that step @Bml
Bml
Bml
8:22 AM
@BenSteffan No. It was my confusion.
@RyderRude OK, from here why does continuity allow us to extend the formula from rational numbers to real numbers?
@Bml yes
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Why?
12 mins ago, by Ryder Rude
so f (m/n x)= m2/n2 f(x) for all real x and natural m, n
this is to say that $f(q x) = q^2 f(x)$ for all rational $q$
The rationals are dense in $\mathbb{R}$, so any continuous function defined on $\mathbb{Q}$ extends to at most one continuous function on $\mathbb{R}$
There's an obvious continuous extension of $f$ given by $g(r x) = r^2 g(x)$, q.e.d.
Bml
Bml
@BenSteffan Are you saying that the continuous extension on $\mathbb{R}$ is unique, right?
yes
there's only one such extension, and you already have a candidate for it, so these must be the same :)
Bml
Bml
8:33 AM
@BenSteffan And it is $g(r x) = r^2 g(x)$
I don't understand how so many people are in the chat at 4:34 am
@zetaspace have you heard of a place called "Europe" :^)
It's 10:35am here
in Germany
@zetaspace why are you in chat at 4:37 am ? :D
I need to understand spinors in diff geo
Bml
Bml
8:40 AM
@BenSteffan Now, if we set $x=1$, we have $g(r) = r^2 g(1)$
"If you don't understand differential geometry, you clearly have not read my book" - Ted (probably)
watched michael attiyah short clip
he talked about spinors and I was like wow that's cool
I say "spine-ers" which may or may not be correct
attiyah says "spin-ers"
Bml
Bml
@BenSteffan Setting $g(1) = a$, we have $g(r) = a r^2$, so $g(x) = a x^2$ with $x \in \mathbb{R}$ and real $a$. Correct?
@SineoftheTime Ted also said that someone else said that you should learn what is needed to achieve your objective
8:47 AM
spinors are the square root of geometry
Bml
Bml
@BenSteffan How to prove that $a>0$, i.e. that $g(x)$ is increasing over positive $x$?
Here we are
@Bml yes
@Bml this doesn't follow from anything stated
you can have e.g. $g(r) = -r^2$, no problem
Bml
Bml
@BenSteffan Could you please see this?
7
Q: Prove $f(x)$ is quadratic if $f(2x)=4f(x)$ and $f(x)$ is increasing over positive $x$

horseThe problem arose in the context of kinetic energy, where it can be proven from symmetry principles that $E(2v)=4E(v)$ without assuming $E=mv^2/2$ (see e.g. physics stackexchange). While one may do further physics from this point to prove the desired result (that $E$ is quadratic in $v$) -- cons...

@BenSteffan Particularly, the answers by mechanodroid and Khosrotash.
8:52 AM
if $f\in C^2$ and $f(2x)=4f(x)$ it's proven that $f(x)=ax^2$, why are you complicating things?
Bml
Bml
@SineoftheTime We started from $f(x+y) + f(x-y) = 2 f(x) + 2f(y)$.
why?
18 hours ago, by Bml
Hi everyone. I was reading an answer on Physics SE where it is said: "$E(2v)=4E(v)$ [...] implies that $E$ is quadratic. Now, it doesn't seem obvious to me. How can we prove that $f(2x)=4f(x)$ doesn't have a non-quadratic solution?
this was your original problem
@Bml Were you assuming that $g$ is increasing over positive $x$?
Bml
Bml
@SineoftheTime For physical reasons. $x=y$ seems to be just a particular case of this general functional equation. There is a long discussion before this message on this chat and in "The h Bar".
@BenSteffan No, but it doesn't seem an assumption in the posts I mentioned. Surely $g(x)$, being the kinetic energy function must always be nonzero, so $g(x) \geq 0$, so $a > 0$.
@BenSteffan I don't know if this can be achieved mathematically.
you keep jumping from a problem to another, it's not clear what you're asking
the fact that $f(2x)=4f(x)\implies f(x)=ax^2$ has been solved
Bml
Bml
9:03 AM
@SineoftheTime Yes.
@SineoftheTime Also the fact that $f(x+y) + f(x-y) = 2 f(x) + 2f(y) \implies f(x)=ax^2$ has been solved.
@SineoftheTime Now I'm trying to understand if we can prove $a > 0$ or not.
if you don't have further assumptions, why should you conclude that $a>0$?
Bml
Bml
@SineoftheTime Because the kinetic energy $f(x)$ has to positive (or nonzero). I don't know how to prove that.
then it's straightforward tha $a>0$
if $f=ax^2$ and $f\ge0$ then $a>0$
i would also say that signs r just conventions in physics. if KE+PE is conserved, so is -KE-PE
so there is nothing in nature which says that KE must be positive
there is nothing that truly fixes the factor of 1/2 either. there r some arguments from relativity, but still, if E is conserved, so is cE for any constant c
whenever u get these fixed constants, it is because of some arbitrariness in the definitions
unless it's some unitless quantity or stuff like that
Bml
Bml
9:18 AM
@RyderRude Yes, I agree, but wherever you find it written that $E_{kinetic} \geq 0$. Somewhere I had read that this condition was important for some reason.
@RyderRude I've read that Leibniz introduced $1/2$
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Yes, the term $1/2$ is a convention that makes the energy laws easier. It follows from the assumption of Galilei-invariance with some arguments from special relativity.
@SineoftheTime it comes out of integration which comes down to the definition of work, potential, etc
yep, from integration
@AlessandroCodenotti why would you delete your comment
9:21 AM
@Bml oh
I cant see it as anthing other than a matter of definitions
but maybe there's something
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Yes, but not really. This is the classical Work-Energy Theorem. See this:
28
Q: Why is there a $\frac 1 2$ in $\frac 1 2 mv^2$?

Physiks loverFor elastic collisions of n particles, we know that momentum in the three orthogonal directions are independently conserved:$$ \frac{d}{dt}\sum\limits_i^n m_iv_{ij} =0,\quad j=1,2,3$$ From this, it follows there's also a corresponding scalar quantity conserved:$$\frac{d}{dt}\sum\limits_i^n m_i(v...

As usual, the top-rated answer is illuminating, and I noticed that the answerer is the same as the most voted answer in the relationship kinetic energy-velocity square. I find all this stuff spot on, I have no idea where these arguments came from, where he read them or how he got there. Never seen them in all the Physics books I have read in my life.
@Jakobian Because it was wrong
I see. If you say so
Hi👋
9:33 AM
I was trying to solve $y'' + 9y = 2x \sin x + x e^{3x}$, I found $y = 3i, -3i$
So now for the particular solution for $x e^{3x}$ can i try with $x \cdot e^{3x} (A + Bx)$
@Bml I'm saying that it comes down to the definition of work, for instance
to avoid confusion, it's better to use another letter
It should be $m = 1$ right?
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude Yes, they are similar arguments.
@SineoftheTime ah ok, $\lambda^2 + 9 = 0$ the Solutions are $3i, -3i$
9:35 AM
@Bml oh, and Ron talks about the relativistic energy. This is the relativistic argument i was talking about above
But the problem is that u cud just as well multiply the relativistic energy by any constant u like
so in the end, it is just about what's the simplest convention
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude It is derived from the relativistic energy formula using a Taylor series.
@RyderRude Yes, I think so and I agree with you.
@AlessandroCodenotti I don't really know what your question was, but my relation to pi-base is that I sometimes contribute to it, and I've been main contributor of realcompactness to pi-base
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude What I do not understand among this stuff is this:
7
Q: Prove $f(x)$ is quadratic if $f(2x)=4f(x)$ and $f(x)$ is increasing over positive $x$

horseThe problem arose in the context of kinetic energy, where it can be proven from symmetry principles that $E(2v)=4E(v)$ without assuming $E=mv^2/2$ (see e.g. physics stackexchange). While one may do further physics from this point to prove the desired result (that $E$ is quadratic in $v$) -- cons...

@Bml yes, but u cud multiply the whole series by any constant
For some reason I thought that being hereditarily normal and being able to put disjoint open sets around separated sets were equivalent only for regular spaces, but they are always equivalent
Bml
Bml
9:39 AM
@RyderRude Yes. It is a matter of convenience and simplicity.
@Pizza why?
Bml
Bml
@RyderRude The OP of the question I linked asked about the same argument I asked yesterday. Why did he assume the function increasing over positive $v$?
@SineoftheTime No I think I got confused it should be $e^{3x} (A+Bx)$
that's better
@Bml idk... maybe specific to their problem
also, exponents are unitless. so the square in mv2 is physical
these things r not arbitrary
Bml
Bml
9:44 AM
@RyderRude Which is the same I asked about yesterday. $E(2v) = 4E(v)$.
@Bml u dont know if that OP was asking that in the context of physics
maybe they got increasing $f$ from their context
@SineoftheTime Instead for $2x \sin x$ I found that $\alpha + i\beta$ is a solution of $ay^2+by+c=0$ then $x(A+Bx) e^x \cdot \cos(3x) + x(C + Dx) e^x \sin(3x)$
@Bml nvm they say it's about physics. Sorry
@Pizza I'm not following you
@Bml i cant tell why they assumed an increasing function then
9:49 AM
in you case, $\alpha=0$ and $\beta=3$
@SineoftheTime Yes
maybe something like : u want faster objects to have more energy?
cuz they raise the temperature higher upon collision @Bml
but it's all conventions in the end
$(i\beta)^2 + 9 = 0$
you already computed $\beta$
Oh yes I saw the mistake
$y_p = x(A+Bx) \cos(3x) + x(C + Dx) \sin(3x)$ ?
Bml
Bml
9:53 AM
@RyderRude I have no idea. Maybe can we ask that to "The h Bar"? The problem is I don't know how to pose the question.
ok, I misinterpreted
$\alpha=0$, $\beta=1$ and $\lambda=\pm3i$
with your notations
Yes
I had previously considered $\alpha = 1$ by mistake
@Bml just link it and ask why they assumed an increasing function
ok, so is $\alpha+i\beta$ a solution of the homogeneous eq?
but again, i don't expect any deep answer
9:55 AM
@SineoftheTime yes
it is conventions for simplicity
@Pizza are you sure?
$(i \cdot 3)^2 + 9 = 0$ , $9i^2 + 9 =0$ , $0=0$
24 mins ago, by Pizza
I was trying to solve $y'' + 9y = 2x \sin x + x e^{3x}$, I found $y = 3i, -3i$
is $\beta=1$?
No Is 3
9:58 AM
what is your defn of $\beta$?
where are you finding these formulas?
then I was correct
$\beta=1$
!!
Yes I noticed, it's just that I got things mixed up
go to Il termine noto è il prodotto tra un polinomio e il seno o coseno
so we use the same notation
Ok
10:04 AM
do you agree that $p_n=2x$, $\alpha=0$ and $\beta=1$?
Yes
now, is $\alpha+i\beta$ a solution of the hom eq?
No
ok
so you search a solution in what form?
$(A+Bx)\cos(x) + (C+Dx) \sin(x)$
10:08 AM
correct
Ok so $y_{p_1} = e^{3x} (A+Bx) , y_{p_2} = (A+Bx)\cos(x) + (C+Dx) \sin(x)$
use different letters
plus, by linearity you can compute $y_{p_1}$ and $y_{p_2}$ separately
Yes, I'll try to move on then, thanks for the help
Joe
Joe
Hi all. Unfortunately, I am still stuck on the proof I mentioned yesterday. I see that the homothety of ratio $\det(\mathcal U)$ is injective, i.e. the endomorphism $M\to M$ given by $m\mapsto\det(\mathcal U)m$ is injective. But I don't see how it follows that $u$ is injective.
I don't want to confuse you, but in general if you have $y''+ay'+by=k_1f(x)+k_2g(x)$, and if you denote by $y_{p_1}$ the particular solution of $y''+ay'+by=f(x)$ and by $y_{p_2}$ the particular solution of $y''+ay'+by=g(x)$ , then $y_p=k_1y_{p_1}+k_2y_{p_2}$ is a particular solution of $k_1f(x)+k_2g(x)$ @Pizza
10:21 AM
@Joe If $f\circ g = h$ and $h$ is injective, does that imply $g$ is injective?
this tells you that you can compute the particular solutions separately
I phrased it as a question but it's not a question by the way
Joe
Joe
Yes, agreed that $g$ is injective (if $g(a)=g(b)$, then $f(g(a))=f(g(b))$, so $a=b$). But I'm not seeing where to use this fact, sorry
The equality $\tilde{\mathcal{U}}\mathcal{U} = \text{det}(\mathcal{U})I_n$ translates to an equality of maps
where you have $\tilde{u}\circ u = h$ and $h$ is the homothety
where $\tilde{u}$ is the map given by the matrix $\tilde{\mathcal{U}}$
Joe
Joe
Ah, I see, thanks.
10:38 AM
@SineoftheTime Yes that's what I did :D
11:23 AM
Consider the property $\int cf=c\int f$ for nonnegative measurable functions, $c\in[0,\infty)$. I know a proof of this that invokes the MCT, but in Folland's text this comes before the MCT. We have the definition $$\int f\,d\mu=\sup\left\{\int\phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq f,\phi\text{ simple}\right\}.$$
If I replace $f$ with $cf$ here, we get $\sup\left\{\int\phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq cf,\phi\text{ simple}\right\}$ and $c\int f$ is the same as $\sup\left\{\int c\phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq f,\phi\text{ simple}\right\}$. I still do not quite see how we get equality...
you can scale simple functions
that's what I feel like I did in claiming \begin{align}c\int f&=c\cdot\sup\left\{\int \phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq f,\phi\text{ simple}\right\} \\ &=\sup\left\{c\int \phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq f,\phi\text{ simple}\right\}\\ &=\sup\left\{\int c\phi\, d\mu:0\leq\phi\leq f,\phi\text{ simple}\right\},\end{align}where the last equality is due to scaling simple functions.
11:41 AM
sure now see that this is $\sup\{\int\psi : 0\leq c^{-1}\psi \leq f, \psi\text{ simple}\}$
at least for $c\neq 0$
@Jakobian ah right, ok, thanks! :)
11:56 AM
Hello everyone, I have a question related to differential inequality.
$$
\dot{d}(t) \geq -a d(t), \quad a\in\mathbb{R}^+.
$$
I believe the solution is this
$$
d(t) \geq d(0) e^{-a t}
$$
is this correct? I haven't taken any course in differential inenqaulity. Any suggestions?
12:24 PM
This bound is always true but not every function satisfying this will satisfy the differential inequality. For example for $a = 1$, $d(0) = 0$ we can take $d(t) = 1$ for $0 \leq t \leq 2$, $d(t) = e^{-4-2t}$ for $2 \leq t \leq 3$, $e^{1-t}$ for $t \geq 3$.
The inequality fails on $(2,3)$.
To make the function smooth, needs some small adjustment at the non-smooth points $2$ and $3$,
Make substitution $u = de^{-at}$, then it's $\dot{u} \geq 0$.
So the solution is $d(t) = m(t)e^{-at}$ where $m$ is nondecreasing.
@VladimirLysikov Correction: $u = de^{at}$
12:41 PM
In mathematics, Grönwall's inequality (also called Grönwall's lemma or the Grönwall–Bellman inequality) allows one to bound a function that is known to satisfy a certain differential or integral inequality by the solution of the corresponding differential or integral equation. There are two forms of the lemma, a differential form and an integral form. For the latter there are several variants. Grönwall's inequality is an important tool to obtain various estimates in the theory of ordinary and stochastic differential equations. In particular, it provides a comparison theorem that can be used to...
maybe you find this useful
 
2 hours later…
2:59 PM
@SineoftheTime If you want I can show you the exam paper that was done today
Unfortunately it's a bit crooked because the prof hasn't uploaded the file yet, I only have this one
pretty standard exam
so it's doable in 2 hours
it depends on how fast are you
but it seems doable
in the first one, you're not supposed to find the sum, only the convergence right?
3:16 PM
@SineoftheTime "anways, here's Grönwall"
Basic question. Suppose $f$ is a nonnegative function. What is the negation of $f=0$ almost everywhere? Does this mean $f>0$ almost everywhere? The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to deduce that the integral of a strictly positive function is strictly positive from the equivalence $\int f=0\iff f=0$ a.e. (which is Proposition 2.16 in Folland, though he doesn't state what I want as a corollary). I'm not sure it follows from this Proposition, but I think it's a useful result.
@SineoftheTime I don't think so, but at the first exam it was specified
Now It doesn't ask so I don't think so
the hardest one seems 5
@psie $f > 0$ on a set of positive measure?
Yes that's the only one I've never seen before
So I have to learn to do it
3:19 PM
@BenSteffan ok, that makes sense
for a counter-example to the proposal, consider $f(x)=0$ for $x\le0$ and $f(x)=1$ for $x>0$
probably you have to use Stokes
I'm doing the integral, it comes quite easily to me
Yes
3:21 PM
the bounds are nice
so you should have no problems
But obviously I also have to do more difficult exercises because it's not a given that easier things always come out
I mean, it could also be the case where more integrals come out
Like the one you helped me do
that one was tricky
@BenSteffan not necessarily I'd say, it depends if your functions are measurable
@Thorgott ah makes sense that too
@SineoftheTime Which of these seems the easiest to you?
3:24 PM
these are all standard, I'd say 1 is the easiest because it requires less time
If $F:X\times B\rightarrow Y\times B$ is a map between nice enough metric spaces (not necessarily compact) such that $F(x,b)=(F_b(x),b)$ for all $(x,b)$. If $F$ is a local homeomorphism, is $f_b$ for each $b$, a local homeomorphism?
no sorry. It is the converse regardless
@SineoftheTime Now I'll try to solve them, I'll see how it goes
@Pizza did you solve it?
I'm doing it now
👍
@SineoftheTime hi
@monoidaltransform If there exists $(x, b)\in U\times B_0\subseteq X\times B$ such that $F\restriction_{U\times B_0}:U\times B_0\to F(U\times B_0)$ is a homeomorphism, then $F\restriction_{U\times \{b\}}$ is clearly also a homeomorphism onto its image. This is the map $(x, c)\mapsto (f_b(x), c)$ i.e. its essentially $f_b$ restricted to $U$
3:30 PM
That would imply that $f_b$ is an open map right then?
$F(U\times B_0)\cap Y\times \{b\} = F(U\times \{b\})$ so yeah, this will be open in $Y\times \{b\}$
sorry just confused, $f_b$ is a map $X\rightarrow Y$ right?
So here you are identifying $Y\times b$ with $Y$?
I'm not necessarily identifying them, but you could do that
@BenSteffan so $f$ could still equal $0$ if $f=0$ not almost everywhere? So the converse of $ f=0$ a.e. $\implies \int f=0$ would be simply that if $f$ is not zero almost everywhere (i.e. possibly $0$ somewhere but not everywhere), then the integral is strictly positive. In particular, if $f$ is strictly positive, the integral is strictly positive :)
the converse would be that $\int f = 0 \implies f = 0$ a.e.
3:39 PM
@Jakobian for openness so if $U$ open in $X$, then $F(U\times b)=F(U\times B)\cap (Y\times b)$. Since $F(U\times B)$ is open, $F(U\times b)$ is open in $Y\times b$. Why does this imply $f_b(U)$ is open in $Y$?
oh $F(U\times b)=f_b(U)\times b$
so $f_b(U)$ open in $Y$
right?
Thank you Jakobian, always appreciate your help
@Jakobian true, and it follows from what you wrote that if $f$ is strictly positive, the integral is strictly positive, or?
assuming $f\in L^+$, the space of nonnegative measurable functions from $X\to[0,\infty]$
yes, it follows that, albeit not completely directly, that if $f$ is strictly positive and measurable, and measure of the whole space is positive, then $\int f > 0$
right, positive measure of the whole space is of course needed
3:48 PM
in fact, it suffices to assume that $f$ is strictly positive on some set of positive measure
'albeit' is one of my favourite words
@Jakobian as a very silly sanity check, the above argument holds (to show opennness) if I restrict to any open set of $X\times B$, of form $V=V_1\times V_2$. So if $F$ is apriori defined on $V\subseteq X\times B$, and$F:V\rightarrow Y\times B$ open then $f_b:V_1\rightarrow Y$ is open, right?
without the other assumptions?
say I have a transformation $T \in \mathscr{L}(V,W)$ and a basis for $V$:=$\{v_1,v_2 \cdots v_n\}$ given. It needn't generally be that I can always "split" this basis into a part that spans the kernel and the rest whose image spans the range right?
@Jakobian only other assumption of $F$ is $F(x,b)=(f_b(x),b)$ for all $(x,b)$
3:58 PM
@nickbros123 yes
@monoidaltransform should be true by repeating the same argument. I'm not going to carefully check
4:12 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a 'Buddhabrot'
@SineoftheTime with gauss green I set $Q = 0$ so as to have an integral with constant $x$ then $\int \frac{x^3y}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} dy = x^3\sqrt{x^2+y^2}$
@ArjunRaghavan memories of dinner time
@nickbros123 given T, the possibility of choosing such a basis is a big part of elementary linear algebra, but this is certainly not guaranteed for a randomly given basis and T
So I started by calculating the integral on the segment with vertices (1,0) (2,0), I did well to write $\gamma(t) = (t,0)$, $\gamma'(t) = (1,0)$ and $t \in [1,2]$. So the integral should be 0, but I'm not sure what I did
4:19 PM
if $Q=0$, what is $P$?
$P = \int \frac{x^3y}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} dy$ = $x^3 \sqrt{x^2+y^2}$
can you write what formula do you use for Gauss-Green theorem?
@Pizza correct
$$\iint\limits_D {\left( {{{\partial Q} \over {\partial x}} - {{\partial P} \over {\partial y}}} \right)da} = \int\limits_{\partial D} {Pdx + Qdy}$$
@SineoftheTime I wanted to do as you once showed me
so if $Q=0$, then $-P_y=\frac{x^3y}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}}$
it seems that you're missing a minus
4:26 PM
$-\int_{+\partial D} x^3 \cdot \sqrt{x^2+y^2} dx$
@SineoftheTime yes
so $P=-x^3\sqrt{x^2+y^2}$
and you have to compute $\oint_{\partial D} Pdx$, right?
Yes
do you know how to do it?
But is it right that I have to do 4 integrals?
@SineoftheTime Now I'm trying to do the first one
4:31 PM
@Pizza yes
$-[\int_{\gamma_1}dx+ \int_{\gamma_2} dx+\int_{\gamma_3} dx+\int_{\gamma_4} dx]$
So I start by calculating the integral over AC
So $\gamma(t) = (t,0) \quad \gamma'(t) = (1,0) \quad t \in [1,2]$
4:36 PM
@ArjunRaghavan yes, for some reason
Can we solve integrals of the form 1^infty using logarithms?
@nickbros123 you can even visualise it, consider R^3 and the transformation being projection on the xy-plane. Now if you choose the standard basis, you can split, but if you slightly rotate the standard basis to get a new one, you may not now split.
@Pizza yes
@rohit1729 yes
@rohit1729 I don't know what the question is supposed to be, but the appropriate answer should be neither yes nor no.
$\lim_{x \to a} f(x)^{g(x)} = \lim_{x \to a} e^{(f(x) - 1)g(x)}$
4:39 PM
@SineoftheTime So now since I set $Q = 0$ , I will always have to multiply by the derivative of $x$ not $y$
Sometimes we should be able to and sometimes we shouldn't be able to
@BenSteffan @Jakobian I'm trying to create a render in C + + as fast as possible. Is it possible to approximate a closed form expression for a quadratic recurrence relation?
I've always seen this approach though
@rohit1729 is this supposed to be an identity?
@rohit1729 that's not an integral
4:41 PM
@ArjunRaghavan what do you mean "approximate a closed form expression"
@Pizza yes
@Jakobian I don't know but I've read limit instead of integral
@Jakobian sorry, I meant limits. Typo earlier :(
in any case simulation and numerics and that sorta thing aren't down my lane at all; you're asking the wrong person
There is no reason to believe that taking logarithms will take you anywhere closer to solving a limit
@SineoftheTime Ok I did the first one, now I'll do the $CD$ one
4:43 PM
usually, you can reduce the form 1^\infty to infty*zero
do you have to solve a particular limit or it's a general question?
@SoumikMukherjee right
I'd argue the sole concept of indeterminate form is awful
@BenSteffan My understanding is quadratic recurrence relations don't usually have closed form solutions but the Sylevester sequence for example does when you use an irrational number in the solution so it can be approximated
it leads students to ponder useless questions, or get stuck on things that should be self-evident
Or rather the values of the closed form are asymptotic to the recurrence relation
4:46 PM
@ArjunRaghavan having a closed form and being approximatable seem like two different things to me
approximable?
english hard :(
If I were to lecture about calculus, I would never teach my students what an indeterminate form is
but yeah, I'm not the right person to ask
@Jakobian you would jump to Taylor expansions?
English do be hard I don't think I've explained myself well but to summarise: the buddhabrot is very cool
@SineoftheTime do you have to do that to explain to people common strategies of solving limits of the form this and that?
Or do you need to discuss indeterminate forms for that?
4:49 PM
yeah, as much as people want to short circuit the process of learning limits, the better kind of textbook will not encourage students to think/speak in those terms
its up there with "plugging in infinity" in terms of pedagogical soundness
but there's history behind it so it's not like made up
usually, you don't need it. But I think inderminate forms are taught because first you consider limits of continuous functions in a continuous point and student think you can just plug in the value. But when dealing with "indeterminate forms" you can't do that
@leslietownes yeah,. I was working a problem in which we are given a basis for $W$, the codomain of $T$, and we are tasked to find a basis for $V$ so that the matrix of $T$ wrt the found basis for $V$ and the given basis for $W$ is such that the first column is either all 0, or has a 1 in its (1,1) place.
it helps to center the actual concept (the limit) and not, like, approach the subject as a kind of extended arithmetic with infinity which is either possible or not possible depending on the situation
@SineoftheTime you say that but they literally do this and then operate based on those indeterminate forms, a lot of the time
so is it better to teach students you can't always plug things in the first place, or to plug them and then mention "oh yeah but this symbol that we just wrote doesn't make sense" where the student will willfully ignore you at that point
because I think its better to not even give them the incentive in the first place
I hate when my professors used to write $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ or $\frac00$
I agree with you
it's not really that relevant, but one side effect of defining $0^0=1$ would be the confusion it generates among students because if the have an indeterminate form 0^0 they may think the limit is 1
4:58 PM
Then show them where is $x^x$ or $x^y$ etc. continuous and to be careful about this
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