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12:47 AM
Wowie, I got three downvotes yesterday on different questions. I don't really care, just curious why all of a sudden Perhaps there is a PSQ downvoter around?
if this persist, you could report to moderators, either on the chatroom or flags. I've seen a few times that this is reported there
1:25 AM
Thanks @VeronicaR.M., I don't really care about the rep (other than getting my orange MSE jumpsuit), just find it curious that someone would bother.
I think jumpsuits are a rumor.
1:47 AM
coyote's back
maybe i should leave him treats
2:03 AM
they are a gateway animal
@copper.hat: what a little annoying is that some users who made reputations answering trivial questions and whose answers were overhyped now care a lot about PSQs and whatnot.
2:36 AM
@OliverDíaz I suppose some enjoy the 'power'.
guys, i'm right here. just say it to my face.
i earned my 7k rep cheaply, and i downvote everything. you don't have to like it.
maybe when you get reps the size of mine you will stop hating. jealousy will get you nowhere.
i'm in a hating mood atm. until my daughter's situation gets resolved.
scrolling up, goodness. is there something they can do? surely.
i don't know yet. i didn't want to disturb her while recovering or spook her (the exam setup is much more formal than i the usa). waiting for her to reply to my whatsapp.
feel sort of helpless
one would think this isn't the first time it's happened. but, ugh. i could see this keeping one up nights.
2:50 AM
@TedShifrin on the other hand, they could be sending you and 13K others in your residential area off to mandatory holiday for some 30 cases...
ooh! a mandatory holiday? sign me up!
already did.
laughter stops
record scratch sounds
@leslietownes im a worrier by nature and this is my daughter :-)
i had a severe migraine when taking a cs prelim at berkeley and did dismally as a consequence. it never occurred to me that one could ask for consideration. certainly was not an option when i attended college in ireland.
2:57 AM
@copper.hat sounds bothersome but she's young she'll pull through
@CalvinKhor she will be fine, but these are finals and there is a contingent job offer.
yeah, same.
in law school something horrible happened to a friend and the line was, you can explain that in interviews because it will obviously come up.
folks were willing to write me a letter of elaboration for my record but i never pursued that, didn't matter since academia was not a likely destination for me
anyway, i am almost at the point where i will go a church and pray. that is pretty far out for me :-)
pointless though it be.
About the sins, I was only kidding. I trust that the creator of the universe can take a joke
About my daughter,
i guess the point of praying is to focus your thoughts on the matter to figure out what can be done
3:06 AM
nah, it's to direct satan's wrath at your enemies.
please tell me you interject with jokes in the courthouse too
while i am not a believer, it is very hard to leave your upbringing behind
i really, really, really try not to be funny at work. internally with colleagues, yes, absolutely, the sky is the limit.
but not in anything that the outside world will see.
it's basically impossible for lawyers or judges to be funny. all you see are failed attempts.
i have come to the depressing conclusion that funny almost always comes at someone else's expense.
so that relegates my humour to having myself be the butt of my jokes
im a born and bred 'new atheist'. But the school of hard knocks kicked some idealism out of me lol
3:10 AM
Punnery isn’t usually at others’ expense.
my msc advisor said "i think religion is a great thing - for other people".
I used to be very self-deprecating in my humor, but I realized after a while that it was either indicative of, or contributing to, genuine self-deprecating attitudes.
@TedShifrin true.
Now in my humor I try to either punch up or not swing at all.
Or play the fool. That one's very fun.
hugs @Fargle
3:11 AM
Long arms you've got.
i could be very cutting in the past. not because i wanted to cause pain, but because my mouth was unreastrained
@Fargle im still at the self-depreciating-in-all-ways stage for sure
It can be a hard mode to get out of, particularly if your material conditions aren't exactly conducive to feeling positively about oneself. Difficult to have the ol' Positive Mental Attitude(tm) if you're living check-to-check, et cetera, yadda yadda.
At least, that was a big part of my own difficulties.
i found staying busy avoided dwelling on my many aspects that needed improvement.
3:15 AM
Yeah, having things to do, especially from elsewhere (elsewhom?), can be a big help as well. Large part of my life consisted in sinking into bouts of "blegh" due to a lack of routine.
exercise was my saviour
when my kids were in the 7-9 range, i used to give them math problems during the school week, poor kids.
i kept the stuff on a microsoft product called onenote
but my version was 2003 whereas the earliest i could find was 2016
quite serendipitously i discovered i had the 2003 cd & license key in my throw-away bin!
so i now have all their little problems.
@copper.hat The idea of exercising regularly was some of the best advice I ever got. I've never been too concerned with my physique or anything, but just the sheer bodily feeling of productive exhaustion is really good for breaking out of slumps.
@Fargle something that helped me decades ago when doing academic work was a simple meditation.
I've been learning a few pointers on meditative practice lately from some friends of mine who practice religions that feature it. It's quite nice.
from a little book by Lawrence LsShan.
its a bit cliche, but focus is huge. or uge as some like to say.
3:20 AM
Those talks have also sort of moved my spiritual perspective from "atheist" to "atheist, but syncretically this time", which has been an interesting side effect.
i knew someone who insisted that any humor had something as a target. like ted, i mentioned puns. and absurdist jokes in general. she said, there, the joke is that you think one thing and are misled by it. the target is the person you tell it to. i said, maybe therapy is a good option.
i've been living in the bay area too long
@leslietownes Well, they aren't called groaners for nothing, I suppose, but to call that anything like genuine harm is maybe a bit much.
it's a common thing, if you don't personally find something funny, to assume that you are the butt of the joke. it's just wrong.
Similarly, I suppose part of what's funny about shaggy dog stories that aren't anti-jokes is that you're wasting the time of the listener, but that's usually only a small part. Like, the one about the moth at the podiatrist's office is funny by itself if told well.
3:24 AM
or "this offends me, and therefore the only reason someone could have said it is for the purpose of offending me"
yes, shaggy dog stories have nothing to do with wasting the listener's time.
the moth joke is a great joke.
i think it is good to have a thick skin, but there is a line between funny and getting a bit pointed
the solution in ireland was to tell kerryman jokes
at the risk of getting beaten up by a kerryman
which was a serious risk as they were typically strapping lads.
Important also, in some settings, is the context itself. Context can be a large determiner of the target of a joke---the old "contour integral of Eastern Europe" joke can either be at the expense of Polish people, or at the expense of the rest of the Central/Eastern European powers in the 19th and 20th centuries, depending on who's telling and who's laughing.
Yes, I mentioned to my research advisor that he should sit on the left hand side of the aircraft when we were flying to a conference inDC.
Not something that can be blindly manipulated, though. I think it's better to be careful than not to be, at least personally, when it comes to this kind of context dependence.
He just looked at me like I was stupid. I decided it was best not to elaborate.
We were working on some control system stability thing at the time.
Sometimes one finds things funny that end up a bit awkward.
I knew a family that had two kids named William & Billy.
3:33 AM
Now that's just funny.
When I was introduced I just burst out laughing, thinking that it was a joke.
It wasn't. I was just culturally insensitive.
I get why that was probably awkward, but I don't think I can blame you for that.
"Here are my sons, Robert and Bob."
It was accidental, but makes one question much of what spills out of one's mouth
Decades ago my sister (primary school teacher) had two kids in here class called Phuc & Duc. In Ireland this was a bit of a challenge, but folks were generally understanding. Names sometimes do not cross cultures well.
oh boy. we had someone in our elementary school class named Bich
Foo & Duck were the consequent names.
3:36 AM
kids grow out of stuff like that very quickly. i wish one could say the same for adults.
It must be a flaw in the Irish mind that finds that awfully funny.
it's like the where's grandad thing. once in 7th grade we saw some video, supposedly to teach tolerance, where a boy was relentlessly mocked for bringing odd foods to school, but later reconciled with his classmates. of course we took this as an instructional video and identified whoever brought the weirdest lunch to school and called them by the name of the kid in the video.
or the ba, ba, ba, ba
how is Phuc supposed to be pronounced?
But this was Ireland last century, a fairly homogenous place back then
3:39 AM
Vietnamese, if I had to hazard a guess?
Yep, but folks are generally very considerate of kids.
yeah think so
But you know what every adult is thinking.
Im still not sure how to say nguyen
Of course, Irish names have a few that don't quite work in English.
3:41 AM
@CalvinKhor “wen”
I tried learning Mandarin many years ago but I could not manage the tones.
@CalvinKhor Roughly like "wen", but with the "w" slightly more nasalized.
I cannot speak my native language.
@copper.hat Siobhan comes to mind.
thanks guys lol theres so many nguyens I really felt like I ought to know by now...
3:41 AM
i won brownie points on a conference call with a client by pronouncing an irish name correctly on the first try.
Veitnamese diacriticals take it to another level.
i cheated by having known someone by that name already. good luck with how it's all written out.
Caoimhe, Fiacre, Eoghan, etc
in my case, Roisin
@copper.hat 加油!Im literally singing a song every sentence is how i think of it lol
Probably wouldn't be as difficult for people in the Anglosphere outside Ireland without the legacy of colonialism on the island, and ensuing shifts in places like the US (the old Ellis Island effect).
lee mack is incredibly funny.
@CalvinKhor What does 加油 mean?
My 100 characters are long lost (except for maybe 1,2,3...)
it doesn't mean 'convex,' i know that much.
To be honest, I sometimes come across an Irish name that I am not sure how to pronounce.
3:45 AM
jia you = literally add oil so its like 'burning the midnight oil' but more generally you can do it, keep going, etc
@leslietownes smacks
@CalvinKhor My father in law (sadly deceased) was of Chinese descent, so it was fun to go to tea houses with him when he lived in Hainan.
He was my bona fide. And he spoke Mandarin. It as a good mix and people were very receptive to the combo.
One day I want to learn that language
I'm done with Japanese for now. Still not at the level I want to be, but I don't think I'll take Japanese again next semester
I studied a semester of Mandarin so I could write him a postcard. He was not impressed, unfortunately :-).
sounds amazing. Im still struggling myself and I'm currently in china
3:47 AM
I am planning on taking French Level 1 next semester, though
because I am a masochist
@copper.hat perhaps not outwardly, im sure it was appreciated
I took 5 years of French but cannot thread a sentence.
@CalvinKhor I don't know. Cultures can be hard things to bridge.
@AkivaWeinberger you know how there are crazy or silly or insert bad adjective people in every country. They can virtually all speak fluently. I take this to mean anyone can learn a language given enough time
I had enough trouble with my own growing up :-).
One language I found straightforward to learn (to a street level) was Malay/Indo.
But that is the limit of my polyglot skills.
kamu boleh tolong aku
oh my god my family will cut contact with me that took every fibre of my being to remember
3:52 AM
:-) if you need to buy a durian i can help :-)
there is a point of cultural disagreement...
i was gonna add something specific to the end but couldnt muster more words
la ?
sorry :-)
I spent a little time in Singapore, I had a friend living there, it as great because I could manage tiny bits of three of the languages spoken there.
plus the range of food was awesome.
and the zoo had cooling huts.
ive only visited a few days. all i know about singapore is what malaysia propagandised to me. food was good we can agree there for sure
3:56 AM
i stayed across the bridge in Johor Baru for a while. It was fun too, if a little rowdier.
not to persue maths i would presume
I stayed in the Perhentians for a while too. Not maths unfortunately
I recently found out this exists
It was so different than anything I had experience in life to that time
I loved Malaysia.
:) cant wait til i can go home
4:00 AM
Maybe I don't need all these languages… my dog seems perfectly happy with 0
all this while your dog was asking for a dog-english dictionary...
:-). I spent a bit of time in Sandakan too. That was awesome. I was incarcerated for a while in nearby Brunei.
hahahaha wow you really live life
Long time ago. You don't want to know about my life now :-).
But I am glad I did it when I was younger and had a lot more energy & mobility.
Mount Kinabalu :-)
you can probably take my passport and the police will beat me for it
4:04 AM
(The incarceration was because I did not have a visa, my wife did so she went and had lunch while an armed guard stayed with me.)
As it turned out, I could have got in had I realised that a US green card would have sufficed.
But who would have guessed.
ahh visa troubles...so much of that recently lol
I knew an Irish family that had triplets and they came to work in the USA illegally (summer work sort of thing). Two of them got caught & banned, so the evolved a complicated scheme where they would come in one by one through Canada.
Different times. I am glad that the Irish terrorism thing is behind us (fingers crossed), make travel easier.
amazing haha
good talk m8, gonna attempt to do some work! cya
So here's a math thing I learned today
An irregular way to divide cake into two equal portions
@CalvinKhor Chat later!
4:22 AM
Take a circle and a random point inside. Draw $2n$ rays from that point at equal angles
Note: they make equal angles at that point, but they don't cut the perimeter of the circle into equal sizes
($2n$ rays can be phrased more easily as "$n$ lines", or $n$ cuts of the cake)
Take every other slice
then if $n$ is an even number larger than $4$, those will add up to half the cake's area
This took me longer than I'd like to admit to prove
(If $n$ is something else, it apparently only gives you half if one of the cuts passes through the center, but that seems annoying to prove)
Is it not a symmetry argument?
For $n$ even greater than $4$?
Geometry is almost as bad as algebra.
Aggh, no scratch that.
Oh, it's on Wikipedia as the "pizza theorem"
The symmetry statment.
4:26 AM
suddenly i want both weed and pizza.
Wikipedia does not provide a proof
which gives me hope that my ugly proof is not too far from the best possible
i had rotisserie chicken & mashed spuds tonight. no geometry involved.
we had burritos from a local taqueria.
this is a bit like the equal area thing on a sphere.
4:28 AM
For religious reasons I don't write things down on Saturdays (between Friday night sunset to about an hour after Saturday night sunset)
so I was trying to work it out in my head
apparently my ldl is a bit high. i am going to need to cut out something.
Algebra is a lot harder that way, lol
@AkivaWeinberger why, in case you cause a spark?
i was wondering why the chat was eerily free of tricky problems from friday sunset to saturday sunset.
@copper.hat No, writing is just one of the prohibited things on Shabbos
@leslietownes lol
Electricity isn't really one of the (explicitly) prohibited things, oddly enough, because (of course) it wasn't around when they were writing the rules
4:30 AM
about two years ago i mostly worked with an orthodox jew and a hyper-observant christian. one of them was silent on email on saturdays, the other on sundays. it was paradise for me.
It's kinda debatable why exactly it's prohibited
now i just work with heathens who email me anytime.
@AkivaWeinberger law, religious or otherwise always stumps me from time to time. rabbinical law is no different.
i remember discussion the design of a controller for a motorised wheelchair that was legal for Jewish folk.
I do think all those years of trying to do and follow math in my head has made me a better mathematician
@copper.hat I was gonna bring that up, actually
The solution was a random delay between when the button was pressed and when the activity started.
4:32 AM
Yeah, exactly
I had a similar discussion with a priest (which ended in my getting clattered about the head) about holy water.
business arrangements for muslims who are serious about it can be tricky. there are various prohibitions on lending money to collect interest, but you can structure around that and it is sometimes a bit of work to ensure that the tax consequences are the same.
To me that is violating the spirit.
@copper.hat I did a tour of the Zomet Institute, which makes a lot of this stuff
Oh don;t get me started
the latter was for leslie.
my dad used to be the cfo of an irish meat producer.
4:34 AM
The "violating the spirit" part is which one
we had folks from Libya & Israel.
it's an open question if there is a spirit. it depends upon how fundamentalist you are. this is itself a matter of religious interpretation.
@AkivaWeinberger The random delay does not constitute not doing in Joe's opinion :-)
It is a workaround. Like temporary marriages.
you can look at rules as, what's the purpose of this, etc. and it gets complicated. or you can say, if --- said don't do X, so as long i don't do X, i'm OK as to that.
Don't get me wrong, I am no Talmudic scholar.
4:35 AM
Sure, but motorized wheelchairs are important enough for their users that I think following just the letter of the law is justified
I look at rules as guidance.
Take it up with the Zomet people
To me, any principle taken to an extreme will break.
Sorry, I am very crankly today.
On a different note, I am a distance relative of Princess Grace of Monaco.
one time i was in an apartment that had a mezuzah on the door, and i phoned around until i found someone who could take it away. i couldn't throw it out. they were happy to have it back. i wondered about the person who was so observant they installed it and not so observant that they left it there.
i hope nothing bad happened.
@copper.hat I'm a descendent of the Kotzker Rabbi
Hasn't, like, meant anything, but it's a fun fact about me
4:39 AM
One of my many great grandfathers has a wikipedia page :-)
Not quite as impressive a scholar, though.
I like the line "He appears to have had little patience for false piety or stupidity."
no religious scholars in my family.
I believe I am the first in my line to come to America.
one time i met a guy at a family reunion, he was this really caustic person, insulting everyone who wasn't there. found out he was my dad's cousin and somehow also an episcopal priest. (most of my family is catholic.) heaven help his flock, wherever they are.
I imagine being a smart priest is internally challenging.
you could have told me he was a disgraced used car salesman and i would have believed it. it was genuinely shocking to learn he was a priest.
4:43 AM
Huh, just found a link on the wheelchair thing. This apparently doesn't work based on randomized delay) but on changing the level of voltage (which is apparently less problematic than creating a new voltage). So the wheels are never fully off (always trying to turn)
wow, there's a gazzilion fireworks going off outside!
we have that too, but we live within hearing distance of disneyland. every night.
magic kingdom my ass.
@AkivaWeinberger It is a bit fuzzy in my opinion.
i love the precise interpretation, to preserve the letter of the law. absolutely love it.
it speaks to the attorney in me.
the engineer is scratching his quantum head
4:51 AM
we do similar things to avoid patent infringement.
been there, done that
i don't know what the purpose of the patent is, it's not my job to know. i do know that i'm not doing the patent. that's enough.
there's a majesty in that. you can sleep soundly, doing that.
they are for the vcs to think they have some protection
of whatever one calls sources of investment nowadays
plus some companies pay some minor amount if an employee writes one.
@leslietownes In fact a lot of Jews go into law because skills transfer over from learning the Talmud
akiva the smartest guy i knew in law school had, i think, never gone to traditional schools. like no public high school, no real college. just talmud.
4:55 AM
Presumably mathematics as well.
Less so, I think. Laws in math and physics are a different character to laws in law
Weird phrasing
Legal laws.
I think for Irish folks, it used to be trying to outsmart bureaucracy was the driver.
copper it is hilarious what VCs will invest in if there is a patent behind it. in some sectors anyway.
biotech is a hotbed of patent grift.
and startups where the founder uses VC money to be a jobs program for their former grad students and friends.
@leslietownes i used to think that i was missing something when i would see some of the investments.
"Ohh! It is pointless!"
4:58 AM
i want to make a spac
My dad does real estate law. Occasionally he describes his work to me and I half-follow
i thought for a minute about working in VC, one of my friends went into it. we had a lunch. he gave me hypotheticals and i said, i wouldn't invest in any of this, it's all horseshit. he said, maybe this isn't for you.
the stated goal will be to attract gullible vcs
Fomo VC SPAC, Inc.
LP Dollars Gotta Go Somewhere Corp
I have difficulty with groups, real estate law is Einstein stuff to me.
dearth of convex problems.
5:00 AM
It's all in $\Bbb R$. The next step is complex estate law
oh, wait, quaternion estate law, i know a bridge somewhere
Some researchers have tried to develop a quaternion estate law but the noncommutativity has been an obstacle
Damn, beat me to it
with a better joke
i have been to broom bridge
akiva that's interesting. i don't know where the subtlety would be, but obviously there is some. i was involved in a bankruptcy proceeding once that turned entirely on real estate and i knew enough to know i was a minor player and kept to the side.
I have never been to Ireland
5:02 AM
It is an evolving place
Wait so where are you all from?
Ah, fun
i grew up in the SF bay area but now live in LA county.
The YouTube channel Real Engineering is done by a guy from Dublin
5:02 AM
Im a subscriber
I briefly caught the end of some SEA stuff earlier. Did one of you live there for a bit?
Malaysia and such
copper has been in most jails in most countries.
I spent about a month there a gazzilion years ago
when i had a functional brain & body
I almost got jailed in Athens for pretending to graffiti the Parthenon
my youtube likes include shuffle dances and mohammad ali vids
5:04 AM
and for legal reasons I will not elaborate
Nah actually I will
i have an fbi file.
There was a little area to the side with a bit of chest-high stone wall to prevent you from falling off the mountain, and the top of the wall was covered in scratch graffiti
Like, people had scratched in their names and years and such
I was pretty sure one of them said "2010"
it was actually 20 and 10
I jokingly said "How do I add to this" and held a pen above it
and a security guard immediately noticed and yelled at me
they are greek, they do that anyway
5:07 AM
and apparently said my and my brother's description into the radio in Greek
he was shaking you down
That night we flew back to NY and learned Notre Dame burned down
one of my friends got in trouble once for taking a photo in which he used forced perspective to make it look like he was licking the face of a portrait of the country's beloved leader that was prominently displayed in the town square. somehow it came up in his phone when he was looking for a photo of something like an ID card for a functionary.
What country
he paid money to get out of it, but absolutely nobody was laughing.
a former soviet socialist republic
5:09 AM
i got 'arrested' in an indian museum for taking a picture
i had to sit through a lecture and pay a fine.
@leslietownes Yeah maybe don't do that in Turkmenistan or wherever, bad idea
akiva: yes.
it's not that anyone cares, but nobody wants to be seen as not caring, which somehow makes it worse than if everyone cared. that is how he described his situation after the fact.
I see
I have no plans to visit Central Asia
Maybe Bukhara would be nice to visit, for the Jewish historical aspect
i would like to go to mongolia
Mongolia sounds super cool actually
All I know (or need to know) is that they have throat singing
5:12 AM
too many countries & places to see
i would like to visit spain, france, italy, israel, china, and japan. but, i also hate traveling.
@AkivaWeinberger i think Tuva (of Feynman fame) has same
@copper.hat For a while the Tuvan anthem was my favorite song ever
It's still up there
i have no particular interest in europe other than portugal
I memorized a few verses in middle school
Art artyng ovazhynga…
5:14 AM
copper you can get port in any liquor store.
I'm heading off to London on Monday night (my first time in England)
just FYI
any port in a storm
oh, london is awesome. enjoy that.
to perform with my a cappella group
5:14 AM
my poor daughter
@AkivaWeinberger not sure the anthem would be at the top of my list
(Wasn't Leslie the one with the daughter?)
No but listen
my daughter is in the uk, about to take final exams next week and just came down with covid
copper's daughter is like a fully grown adult. i'm the only one with a daughter who is daughter age.
@AkivaWeinberger yes, i listed to it, i felt immediately suppressed.
5:16 AM
part of a larger borg
I don't know if that's a weird synonym of "underwhelmed" (just confused because it's a usage of the word that I'm not familiar with)
Still confused but less so
i'm always confused and confusing
In any case that song dictates like 90% of my music taste
mine is eclectic which means weird
5:18 AM
I grew up listening to what is probably too much Hans Zimmer
(eg Madagascar theme song)
(and "Mombasa" from the Inception track)
Also the Portal 2 soundtrack (not Zimmer but I did listen to it a lot)
i know i have a zimmer tune in my likes, but there are too many to search
I'm not quite sure how I first found this (it's kinda unsearchable) but it's fantastic
i suppose my back, my neck doesn't quite fit in there...
I bought the puzzle video game The Pedestrian yesterday
It's fantastic
Highly recommended, for the art alone
5:36 AM
looks good. adding this to the long queue of games i hope to play during a vacation.
Some day I should finish Antichamber
5:52 AM
he's looking directly at my daughter in that
it's a still from a video. i was taking footage from the second floor while my daughter observed from the first. she announces "ooh, it's looking at me!"
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