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8:00 PM
You know what, $\delta_{L/K}^{-1} \delta_{E/K} \subseteq \delta_{E/L}$ has to be the easier direction because at least its clear that $\delta_{L/K}^{-1} \delta_{E/K} \subset E$.
 
@EdwardEvans is your understanding of something wrong, or is something you understand wrong?
 
$E$ is the largest field so everything is in $E$
 
looks like the proof is just trace fuckery
 
@TedShifrin Well... why aren't you doing his homework for him?!
@BalarkaSen Oh, I excel at that!
 
Oh no sorry I have it all backwards
$\alpha \in \delta^{-1}_{L/K}$, $\beta \in \delta_{E/K}$ I want to prove $\alpha \beta \delta^{-1}_{E/L} \subseteq \mathcal{O}_E$
So take any $\gamma \in \delta^{-1}_{E/L}$. $\text{tr}_{E/L}(\gamma \mathcal{O}_E) \subseteq \mathcal{O}_L$ by default
 
8:03 PM
@BalarkaSen I think all of you manage to do that from time to time
 
just SHUT UP man
Time to understand $\alpha \beta \gamma$
$\alpha \gamma \in \delta^{-1}_{L/K} \delta^{-1}_{E/K} \subseteq \delta^{-1}_{E/K}$
This is insane, I am using $\subseteq$ to prove $\supseteq$
And now it's clear because $\beta$ times $\delta^{-1}_{E/K}$ yeets inside $\mathcal{O}_E$
What the frick is this proof
OK
 
@robjohn It really has become an epidemic around here. Am I being too snide/impatient?
gives a @Balarka a tranquilizer
 
Not good
 
Um, way to escalate.
 
Hahah
Deleted
 
8:11 PM
Thanks.
 
morphine ain't a tranquiliser anyway is it?
 
Nope.
 
Painkillers, I suppose, yeah.
 
@TedShifrin As long as there are people who simply spoon feed slackers, slackers will try to get people to do their work for them.
they won't thank you because they are not looking for your help; they are looking for someone else.
 
I stopped answering questions in MSE because of too many homework-like questions
It's hard to wade through them
Most of them are just looking for answers, yeah
 
8:19 PM
But I'm stunned by how a differential geometry student cannot know in a second what the geometric meaning of $v\cdot w = c$ is for fixed unit vector $w$. It comes from all these algebraic courses that never talk geometric meaning.
 
When everyone in the world comes with a different set of knowledge and experiences it is amazing we are ever able to share ideas, using the assumptions the words I use have the same meaning and context to anyone else.
 
@robjohn: I will quit MSE entirely before I give in to this s**t.
Well, we're not talking nuances of the English language here, @OneCold.
 
For what it's worth, @Ted, I think the fact that you leave "HINT: Think X or Use Y" as answers on many questions is excellent. I think the format of your tensor product of bundles answer was also like this, which is where I learnt how to think about them.
 
@TedShifrin, Hi
 
Hi, Karim.
 
8:21 PM
I am giving a talk on PI day for highschool students on topology and geometry.
 
I don't think so, @Balarka. It just wasn't fleshed out 100%.
 
I will talk about topology, smooth manifolds, Hodge conjecture, and more.
Though no technical stuff
 
Oh geez, Karim, NO.
Your level is too high for almost all college math majors.
 
Hm, yeah, maybe I am thinking of a different answer then.
There's definitely occasions where I have found some of those and had to work out the hints
 
I want to talk about topology and geometry though
 
8:23 PM
Try something like surfaces, Euler characteristic (V-E+F), and Morse theory or intuitive curvature.
 
one day I want to give a talk to high schoolers and tell them about (infty,1)-topoi
 
I should give up and go back to my exercises.
 
Yeah surfaces are nice
 
How do you teach anything in mathematics without using words? are we to let everyone else discover it on their own? Then why would we have schools and not just use libraries? My statement leads right into Math Education and not using this fancy new "Discovery Learning" instead of direct instruction where the meaning of things are explained.
 
I do discovery learning with all my students
 
8:24 PM
@Thorgott lmao
 
you laugh, but I'm not joking
 
By no means perfect, but a valiant attempt.
 
Yeah I was gonna do something like that @BalarkaSen
 
@Thorgott I still laugh about that
 
8:25 PM
@OneCold I think there is middle-ground. But I do have a little story for you.
 
@OneColdRuben I think professors and teachers should be guided teachers.
guiding teachers
 
@Thorgott also, *toposes
 
I am all ears, and eyes in the context of an online chat room.
 
no, I call 'em topoi
 
About 30 years ago I taught a point-set topology class (followed by differential topology). Two math ed grad students were in the class, as well as a bunch of talented math major undergraduates. One of the math ed grad students had taken 3 or 4 classes from me before this. I didn't do "discovery" teaching, but I had a lot of participation, where the students would talk about how something should go.
And then I'd write up something more official after they had seen the ideas. Typically, the undergraduates were the propelling force here. One day, the math ed grad students, who always lobby for "discovering learning" in their curriculum, just lost patience and told me they wished I'd just put traditional lectures on the board.
I laughed.
One of them (not the one who was taking her 4th class from me) stopped taking classes from me after that.
 
8:29 PM
LOL I wish I was in that class
 
It was not a large class. Maybe 8 or so.
 
Yeah I think you really learn things that way when students figure out something by themselves and see the techniques
 
Notice as a point of orthography that 'topos' is a French word, formed from 'topologie.' and not
a Greek word. In writing, Grothendieck always forms the plural according to the French rule
for words ending in 's,' so it is invariant—'les topos.' So the English plural ought to follow the
English rule—'toposes.' Freyd. a confessed lover of classical endings and the inventor of cosmoi
and logoi among other types of categories, says he heard that Grothendieck spoke of 'topoi' in
Buffalo. I regard this as biased hearsay which can not stand against the published record
Also, I boycott terminology that was probably coined by Freyd
 
you can't tell me what to do
 
But the French topologie surely comes from topo+logy, which is Greek.
 
8:31 PM
I think τόπος predates surely?
 
HI @copper.
 
one prof said once he comes from old tradition dating all the way back to the greeks as he works in topology
haha
 
Afternoon @TedShifrin!
 
I guess all geometers/topologists can hold that title.
 
@TedShifrin You can argue with McLarty about that :D
 
8:32 PM
geo-metry is likewise Greek.
 
mentioning Freyd reminds I wanted to read one of his papers
 
Just got back from a nice ride down to Jack London Square. Love lookinbg the big dock cranes.
 
I need to do my back/neck exercises, eat lunch, and then go for my walk. The tough life of a retired bum.
 
I just came across Legendre's formula for the largest power of a given prime that divides $n!$. Pretty neat. I like these sort of formulae.
@TedShifrin I should be retired but have made every financial mistake know to man (or woman).
 
Well, that person (whose post on dot product I'd linked) finally got discouraged by my berating. No further comments. If he/she figures it out for him/herself, as would be appropriate, good.
 
8:34 PM
I am of the opinion that Discovery learning was developed by people of privilege. The privilege of time to think. privilege of having people to ask, and bounce ideas off of. I understand that people feel a closer connection to the idea if they came up with it, but we are usually comparing students to having the "game changing" ideas that helped transform the foundations of mathematics to what it is today.
 
@Thorgott as long as its not about FMSF
 
What is wrong with privilege???
 
@copper I truly miss my teaching (or else I wouldn't be frustrating myself here), but I think I picked the right time, given the politics of the Regents in GA and COVID.
 
@TedShifrin The prevalent method to prevent the kinds of abuse you mention has been to remove all questions that show little context. In most cases, this is warranted, However, there are some good questions with little said in the question, and these get swept away with the rest, along with some good answers.
 
I don't know what that is
 
8:34 PM
@Thorgott better so
 
I wanted to read "Homotopy is not concrete"
where he proves the homotopy category is not concrete
 
@OneCold I suspect you are right on that. As I say, I opt for more of a middle ground in my teaching.
 
@TedShifrin No kidding! Great timing.
 
fair enough
 
very neat fact
 
8:36 PM
I like Santanaya's Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it
 
@TedShifrin it is not an easy thing to deal with, especially with the torrent of questions we get.
 
I was tickled yesterday, though. One of my undergrad advisees/students, who went into math thanks to my multivariable math course, just finished his Ph.D. defense (applied math) at UCSD yesterday. He introduced me (on Zoom) to his advisers and one of them thanked me for inspiring him and sending him to them. It was sweet.
 
that is so sweet
 
More people should realise the impact of a thanks.
 
@TedShifrin A big smile moment!
 
8:37 PM
Agreed, @robjohn. But the big problem seems always to be the mobs of MSE answerers who want their rep and don't care about standards or actual teaching.
Really interesting stuff on signal processing, compressed sensing, numerics and theory both.
 
I must admit, I don't care about rep but I do like helping. However, as of late, I have realised that answering may the opposite of helping.
 
that is very cool stuff
 
@copper That's why I'm so stubbornly socratic most of the time.
 
@TedShifrin I get really annoyed at people who answer identical questions with their answers from the previous question.
 
@TedShifrin I am too impatient. Biggest flaw.
 
8:39 PM
Interesting blends of linear algebra and probability theory. I don't pretend to get it all, but his talk was super.
 
Just tell them the question is a duplicate. They should get their rep from the old answer.
 
I am guilty of repeat answers, but in my defense, I have an awful memory.
 
@TedShifrin I started initially in CS and physics I would like to eventually contribute to both fields. I am very interesting in using geometry techniques in machine learning.
 
@robjohn: There's one geometry guy who does that repeatedly. A Berkeley product or drop-out, I'm not sure which.
@Karim: No one can ever accuse you of not being ambitious. :)
 
I am just saying that not everyone can go home and think for 3 hours about math class and bounce ideas of a group of people with the like minds. Sometimes you have to go to work to help your mom make the house payment and feed your brothers and sister. It leads me toward a idea of fairness, that I tell people what I am looking for, my definitions, my thinking about the problem.
 
8:40 PM
:)
 
@copper.hat No... these people copy their old answer verbatim, so they know that the question is a duplicate.
 
I hate when I look for an answer to something that I am working on and discover that I answered it myself years ago.
 
@TedShifrin That is awesome!
 
@copper.hat I have done that, but in most cases, I have given a different approach in each answer.
 
@robjohn That's bad. I don't really get the value of the rep other than a thank you sort of thing.
 
8:41 PM
Yes, it was a nice moment. I owe the student a fine dinner at one of Berkeley's great restaurants when next I get up there and can eat in a restaurant.
 
I do dislike downvotes without an explanation. Its a bit asymmetric.
 
Yes, I've answered related questions with different spins, too. Sometimes I look up the old answer and just link to it in a comment.
I only downvote after complaining and getting no appropriate response.
 
I like different solutions, even if more complicated, the connections are fun.
 
@OneColdRuben I'm on your side with this
 
It is hard to distinguish between helping and enabling.
 
8:43 PM
full answers are helpful under time pressure
 
Gosh, that student did reply. Truly does not understand much math, I'm afraid.
I'm not here to provide full answers because someone is under time pressure and wants to copy my answer. Damn.
 
Helping is talking, enabling is doing their homework, in my mind
 
@copper.hat I answered this question three times, each time was a big improvement over the previous. The last one I think is really good.
 
@Onecold: But sometimes the OP doesn't appreciate that "help," and sometimes other MSE people just post full answers in the meantime.
@robjohn: You do write long answers :)
 
@OneColdRuben idk it probably depends on the system as well
 
8:45 PM
@copper.hat That is where experience can help, but it is hard to tell sometimes.
 
I agree, but I know at times I am glad when someone spells out the full gory details.
 
Oh, sorry in the real life I tutor, so there is a distinction between a homework problem and a question. I imagine on here it is hard to discern.
 
@robjohn It is nice because it is different and you explain the steps in a meaningful way.
 
@copper: I don't know if this is down your alley or not, but if you're interested, here's one of the articles.
 
doing graded homework for someone else isn't nice, but I never had graded homework except in an exchange semester
 
8:47 PM
Especially since COVID, most posts on here are homework or literal exam questions.
Here is one on quantizing neural networks. Last plug for my former student. :)
 
where I honestly also copied some problems I previously worked at for hours, when I had exams in one country and 3 problem sets in the other
 
or would it be shameful
 
in the end that course I copied for was dropped anyways, graph theory got too crazy
 
@TedShifrin Thanks, will take a look!
 
I put a second one, too, @copper.
 
8:50 PM
Thanks!
 
@KarimMansour did you already do some deeper dive into the ML stuff?
I only had computer science classes and they were MEH
 
Anyhow, he's taking a job up in SF. So now I have more people I need to visit up there ... hopefully not too far in the future.
OK, lunchtime.
 
@user2103480 Yeah neural networks
@user2103480 I am very interested in deep learning as well.
 
@KarimMansour More specific?
 
@user2103480 manifold learning
 
8:53 PM
I was asking a philosophical question about truth and mathematics here math.stackexchange.com/q/4042325/893293 What do you think about math and truth? Is mathematics Truth, or just semantic arguments?
 
define truth
 
As in the one absolute truth.
 
@user2103480 though in undergraduate I only took until datasets
 
it's impossible to answer these things. everything's circular, everything's convention. In the hope that convention actually reflects the things we encounter in reality
 
Too much interesting stuff out there. It is depressing that one (me) can only make a minor dent.
 
8:56 PM
@user2103480 you mean ground truth ?
 
@KarimMansour sounds interesting. we did self-organizing maps and neural gas, but only superficially
 
@KarimMansour more like: our system. to define the naturals, you need the naturals, and such things
 
@user2103480 after I am done with my PhD I will take few month off to study more before heading for a postdoc
@user2103480 no we start from axioms
I am not logician but all I know is based from Terence Tao
You define the naturals using ZFC axioms
 
I mean, one can implement the syntactics in a computer. But that in the end, physically, is electronic circuits so it's not so much different from symbols on a paper. just a representation of what we think is true, although it does hold up pretty well
@KarimMansour we do start from axioms, but before we do that we define a language that has infinitely many symbols
 
9:00 PM
sure yeah
 
And that's the difference in a computer, our a priori language has infinite memory capacity and infinitely many variables to pick from
 
can you tell me more about that I haven't taken a course in symbolic logic.
 
I wish I could meet Terence Tao and ask some silly questions about my understanding of the Colaltz Conjecture. I have a model that would extend forever to show the Collatz True, but its just a image in my mind. I don't know how to write it up.
 
@KarimMansour diced truth will do.
 
At least in FOL you do the following: You have an ambient set theory at hand (you can argue about collections and such). Then you start with an infinite collection of variables, arbitrary symbols, arbitrary collections of relations (mostly including equality, relations can also be functions), logical constants (assuming you have a specified object like a zero in a group)
You can also assume to have specific function symbols, which ease up the notation immensely, but are not strictly needed
(like x + y)
 
9:06 PM
@robjohn haha.
 
you also have logical operators, like "forall" and "there exists"
 
@user2103480 I see
how do you store these in memory ?
 
And from these things you can then recursively define formulas
 
I have spent 6 years looking at the Collatz conjecture, in base 2, 3, 4, mapping its stopping time, programing in Python to create time and processing efficient methods of computing, creating new notation to look at the problem differently, but I am not PHD, and possibly chasing my tail.
 
@KarimMansour memory was not precise. I just mean the language is infinite. You can always take one variable more
 
9:08 PM
sure ok I am following.
 
Similarly to that we cannot truly implement a TM, we only implement larger automata
And to these recursively defined formulas you then define "it is true in a model" by evaluating truth of the statements, with objects from the universe plugged into them, in the metatheory
That's tarskis famous '"Snow is white" is true iff snow is white'
 
I see
 
But it's turtles all the way down
to study the meta-system + the system you need a meta meta system
 
I see so you need this meta meta system if you want to vary let us say the ambient set theory ?
 
yes for example
 
9:14 PM
that is pretty cool stuff
 
A more hands on example of a symptom of these things:
 
But it never ends unless you stop and set the beginning system with axions?
 
the naturals in one model of ZFC are all isomorphic, but between models of ZFC they need not be
 
I see
 
Although I think I didn't explain that all perfectly. We can work in a very very weak theory which can follow computations, e.g. peano arithmetic, where you can faithfully argue about the truth of statements like "turing machine X halts after Y steps"
 
9:20 PM
Yeah
 
Then we can encode any proof in whatsoever reasonable theory via arithmetic statements and we can decide "correctness of proofs" in the system, by just following computational rules
 
Yeah I agree
I would like to understand more of this
do you have a book that you were following in your lectures?
 
arithmetic statements = for example encoding alphabets via 0s and 1s
Endertons intro to logic is very good
 
Cool thanks
 
But it's all a looong road
 
9:23 PM
I don't mind I study geometry after all I am very patient
haha
 
logic's full of pitfalls and the philosophy doesn't make it simpler :D
@KarimMansour definitely
but time's finite :D
 
Yeah haha
I have decided with my life I will study geometry, cs(machine learning), and physics related to geometry.
Okay I got Enderton I will read it at some point after my PhD :)
 
then you might get to enjoy the massive amount of top notch logic answers on the SE network
 
a lot of encoding is very tedious.
 
9:27 PM
just use cantor pairing
ez
 
cute :-).
 
9:54 PM
hey, guys. Can someone help me? I have to describe all the equivalent classes generated by the relation in $\mathbb{Z}$ given by $aRb \Longleftrightarrow |a| = |b|$
 
what is $\vert a \vert$?
 
$[1]=\{-1,1\}$, etc.
 
oof
 
[0]={0}
 
an answer with class :-)
no, its $\{-0,0\}$ :-).
 
9:58 PM
My solution is based like a function of integers to naturals. Each equivalent class have the number and your opposite. My description to all the equivalent class is: $\left\{
C_{a} \right\}_{a \in \mathbb{N}} = \left\{b = |a| \in \mathbb{Z} : aRb \right\}$
 
oh mb :-)
 
@copper.hat I hear this is true in france
 
@BigSocks i have case of wine stuck in france because of tariffs :-(.
 
gee that's too bad... maybe @Astyx can smuggle it out for you. unless he isn't in france
 
I am, but not about to leave :-)
 
10:04 PM
@BigSocks my first time in france, i was really looking forward to a continental breakfast - i grew up in ireland, and an irish breakfast is a pretty solid affair that sets you up for a day of throwing hay cocks around.
so, i was staying in a hostel in normandie and it came with a continental breakfast. i reckoned an irish breakfast is pretty good, but things on the continent are better, so i went down in the morning and got a coffee and a croissant finished it off and asked where is my continental breakfast? they looked puzzled and said you just ate it. luckily the day improved with a fresh baguette.
maybe my daughter can take the eurostar and collect my wine for me. then i got to get it back to the usa from the uk.
 
hehe that made me chuckle. I didn't know "continental breakfast" was not so well defined! also had to google "hay cocks"
 
it was such a disconnect it was funny. i thought they were trying to take advantage of a young naive irish lad.
different times. being a monoglot it was funny to see signs for Rage.
rabies.
 
10:31 PM
0
Q: Deferential Calculus

BreahnaFind the slope of the curve y=x(x+1)(x+2) at the points where it crosses the x-axis. Help me please with solution. someone help, thank you

 
gold
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2099596/computing-the-cohomology-ring-of-the-orientable-genus-g-surface-by-considering
these cup product calculations make me despair
 
Terrible answers
As a graded abelian group $H^*(\Sigma_g)$ is $\Bbb Z[1] \oplus \Bbb Z[\alpha_1, \beta_1, \cdots, \alpha_g, \beta_g] \oplus \Bbb Z[\gamma]$, factors ordered by grade (0, 1, 2 respectively), and fundamental class is denoted as $\gamma$, the generator of grade 2. It is clear that $\gamma \smile 1 = \gamma$; except this $\gamma$ cups with all other generators and gives $0$. It only remains to figure out what $\alpha_i \smile \alpha_j$ and $\alpha_i \smile \beta_j$ are.
To do this, consider the map $f : \Sigma_g \to \bigvee_{i = 1}^{g} T_i^2$, given by collapsing an appropriate subspace (psst: wedge of circles) to a point. Under this map, $\alpha_i, \beta_i$ gets sent to the meridian $a_i$ and longitude $b_i$ of $T_i^2$, for each $1\leq i \leq g$. $f^* : H^* \left (\bigvee_{i = 1}^g T_i^2 \right) \to H^*(\Sigma_g)$ sends $f^*(a_i) = \alpha_i$, $f^*(b_i) = \alpha_j$.
Observe $a_i \smile b_j$, $a_i \smile a_j$ are all zero in the domain for $i \neq j$. This forces $\alpha_i \smile \beta_j$, $\alpha_i \smile \alpha_j$ to be zero in the codomain as well, for all $i \neq j$, because $0$ gets sent to $0$ by the ring homomorphism $f^*$.
 
Thanks! I've seen this general technique of breaking a space down to the less complicated spaces "where the generators lie"
 
What we have so far: $\alpha_i \smile \alpha_j = 0$ for all $i, j$, $\beta_i \smile \beta_j = 0$ for all $i, j$, $\alpha_i \smile \beta_j = 0$ for all $i \neq j$.
Only $\alpha_i \smile \beta_i$ remains to be understood. Finish it from here?
This is how you should write all your computations. Write the graded abelian group, then understand the graded multiplication on the generators using naturality by some map which breaks the space to simpler spaces, as you said, while preserving "intersectionality" (because that's secretly what cup product is anyway) on the generators you'd like to understand for the time being.
 
10:47 PM
The technical explanation in the exercise class was pretty confusing to me since it didn't make obvious how all this came to being and why it is obvious from here. One question, since everything else is pretty clear: We immediately treat the dual classes as the same as the classes themselves? I see that the groups are isomorphic
 
This is 100% rigorous, as you can easily convince yourself.
 
But identifying the class with its dual, although I should probably be convinced of that by PD, is still not too obvious to me
Although I stress again, I find this explanation satisfying since I feel like I can take over from here and do this myself
 
@user2103480 Oh no, that was just my way of saying what the generators of $H^1(T^2)$ are. You can call "meridian" to be "Rumpelstiltskin" and "longitude" to be "Baba Yaga" if you want.
It is true that that is what they mean geometrically by PD, but you don't need to think like this.
You can just do the algebra.
 
aye aye
Thanks a lot!
 
"You can just do the algebra", wise words
 
10:51 PM
Knowing PD makes life simpler because Rumplestilskin $\smile$ Baba Yaga = ???, but meridian $\smile$ longitude = 1 because that is what you get when the $\smile$ becomes a frown, $\cap$.
So instead of symbolic mathematics now you can make informed guessed based on the meaningful hotkeys you're keeping stored in your head.
 
@BalarkaSen important
@BalarkaSen is that last $\alpha_j$ supposed to be a $\beta_i$
 
Thanks, yes
I also mess around with $0$ and $1$. I should just call the grade 0 generator to be $0$
It's a little counterintuitive because multiplication :)
 
you could also draw the fundamental polygon, represent the fundamental class in this fundamental polygon and explicitly evaluate these various cup products on the fundamental class, similar to the torus example we discussed earlier
though that gets a bit messy, I wager
 
I can also not do that, draw a diagram with intersecting circles and say the intersection form directly yields the desired result
@BalarkaSen indeed
 
What's the word or phrase for a structure which is much like a vector space, except the set of "coefficients" isn't a field, it's a commutative ring with unit?
 
11:02 PM
module.
 
module.
lol
 
@Thorgott why do you repeat my answer
 
module!
 
Looks like it, thanks.
 
¿module
 
11:05 PM
¡modulos!
 
by the way, modules are weird
 
module
 
mule
 
Or I might actually be looking for "free module", which are in some ways less weird?
 
@Thorgott preferrably from moscow
 
11:10 PM
@aschepler yes
free modules are those with a basis
 
locally?!
 
Sorry, AG deformity
What have I become?
 
lol
If $L/K$ is an extension what's a sane definition of the relative norm $N_{L/K}$ of an ideal in $\mathcal{O}_L$
 
@aschepler If you're thinking about matrices with coefficients in R you want to be thinking about free modules
 
@BalarkaSen You can use the decomposition in prime ideals
I don't know what classifies as sane to you
 
11:17 PM
Guess that's sane yeah
My instructor hasn't done this relative shit graaah
 
If $I = \prod \mathfrak P_i^{e_i}$, then $N(I) = \prod p_i^{f_ie_i}$
 
Either courses should be graduate or there shouldn't be courses at all
 
sane algebra lmao
gl man
 
I need 100% power level when doing my assignments
Throw everything at them
 
(use of the notation $e_i$ here is horrendous sorry)
 
11:21 PM
@user2103480 Excellent drink.
 
@Astyx If $I$ is an ideal in $\mathcal{O}_K$ what's the norm of $I \mathcal{O}_L$ in $\mathcal{O}_L$?
Not relative, absolute norm
 
$I\mathcal O_L$
I'm not sure what you mean by absolute norm
 
Over $\Bbb Z$ brah
 
Ah ...
 
The cardinality of $\mathcal{O}_K/I \otimes_{\mathcal{O}_K} \mathcal{O}_L$, but can I compute that?
$\mathcal{O}_L$ over $\mathcal{O}_K$ is not free typically
 
11:29 PM
Well $N_{L/Q} = N_{K/Q}\circ N_{L/K}$
So you get $N_{K/Q}(I)^n$
 
Oh wait, is $\mathcal{O}_L$ over $\mathcal{O}_K$ free?
No way, sub of free is free usually only for PIDs
most rings of integers aren't PIDs
@Astyx This is disturbing. Is there no other way than relative norm?
 
Likes a disturbed Balarka.
 
Its giving the same answer if you assumed it's free lol
No way man
That cannot be true
I am not an algebraist but I will bet you any amount of money it is not true
HAH
Get owned mate
Lol
How?
 
I'm actually gonna think this through before saying something
1 sec
 
But since it is locally free you can do the computation locally and get the same answer I am betting
 
Norm can be computed locally
@EdwardEvans Get owned mate
 
@Leaky linked this exact paper to me when I made the same claim
for local fields it's not an issue tho
 
Yeah
 
Imagine having multiple maximal ideals
 
#JustLocalThings
 
11:36 PM
Dude how do I compute cardinality of $\mathcal{O}_K/I \otimes_{\mathcal{O}_K} \mathcal{O}_L$
This is so bad
 
some kind of norm
idk
 
Yeah but didnt want to use relative norm
Unless there's a slick way to define relative norm like absolute norm, $N_{K/\Bbb Q}(I) = |\mathcal{O}_K/I|$
 
You can get to the case where I is a power of primes, then prime
 
Yeah, have to do prime factorization, then extend and take norm
Annoying but ok
The instructor should just assign me to write a textbook
 
Then you want to show $|\mathcal O_L/\mathfrak P| = p^f$
 
11:47 PM
@Balarka: If you're going to start writing textbooks, you'll have to be neat.
 
You got me!
@Astyx Yeah, this is easy
 
Then you're done
 
Right
 
It's basically by definition of f actually
 
yeah
 
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