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123
8:00 PM
@TedShifrin Ookay.. Pls give me the way of calculation.
how $a^6 = e$ have order $1$
 
I do not know what you want.
Because saying you could have $a=e$, or you could have $a^2=e$, or you could have $a^3=e$. So the order could be $1$, $2$, or $3$ (not $4$, not $5$), or $6$. This is why the definition of ORDER says smallest (or least).
 
123
@TedShifrin Ookay.
 
So if you have an actual element $a$ of an actual group and you say its order is $6$, to show this you MUST show that orders $1$, $2$, and $3$ are ruled out. You must show that $6$ is the smallest power $n$ that gives you $a^n=e$.
 
123
G = {1 , 3 , 5 , 7} have modulo 8 under multiplication.
In this we have different order for different elements.
 
Well, a few, yes.
 
123
8:07 PM
It means $a^n = e$ , here n is not the order of group until it is least positive integer? Is that correct.
 
The group has order $4$. Do any of these elements have order $4$?
 
123
No in this we don't have element which has order $4$.
 
Correct. So the order of the group is NOT telling you the answer. I've been saying this for an hour.
 
123
(1) $3$ has order $1$, (2) $5$ has order $2$ , (3) $7$ has order $6$.
 
Oh geez. Only one of these is correct.
How do you get $3$ has order $1$? What does this mean?
 
123
8:12 PM
Sorry $7$ has order $2$
 
OK.
 
3^1 = 3 which is not equal to e
 
Of course, we're really working with equivalence classes, not actual integers. But probably better not to write $e$ here, @copper.hat.
@123 What is the identity element of your group?
 
123
$1$ is the identity.
identity has order $1$
 
$1$ mod $8$, yes.
Now what is the order of $3$ mod $8$?
 
123
8:16 PM
$3$ mod $8$ has order $2$
 
There you go.
So all the non-identity elements have order $2$, because each them satisfies $a^2=e$ and $a^1\ne e$. So $2$ is the SMALLEST positive integer that works.
 
123
@TedShifrin Oooo I see.. Ookay.
 
Go do lots more examples. Have fun.
 
123
@TedShifrin Thanks a lot. So this is the criteria. Thank you.
 
Next time, please (1) actually learn the definitions; (2) read and pay attention to what we say to you!
 
8:21 PM
Wilde is (incorrectly, I gather) credited with saying "I am not young enough to know everything".
 
123
@TedShifrin Ookayy... Thanks
 
I have read lots of Oscar Wilde (one of my favorites), @copper, but that one I do not recognize.
 
It is attributed to him, but I have never seen it in any of his writings. He still has a lot of quotable quotes, much like Clemens and Emerson.
 
I always put one line from The Importance of Being Earnest on my differential topology syllabus.
Speaking of which, I got quite blunt in the comment here.
 
:-)
I think your comment is perfectly reasonable, to the point and, in fact, polite. Certainly I have put much much stronger. Thankfully there are some attentive moderators who earn their title.
 
8:27 PM
It always annoyed me that students criticized my books because I did not have a worked example like every possible homework question ... that's their criterion for a "good" math book.
No wonder students don't learn anything in their courses.
 
It is an evolving sense of entitlement. A book is public, so you open yourself up to all sorts.
 
Oh, of course. Too much of learning is passive, clearly.
Like students who show up in office hours not even having read the homework questions (let alone attempted them and reread the text).
 
I suspect that would drive me to cause bodily harm.
 
I think I was more patient than some of my colleagues would give me credit for.
 
I am patient if I think people are trying. But indolence will trigger me in an instant.
 
8:33 PM
Somehow your kids survived to adulthood :P
 
Well, not quite there yet. Daughter is 2nd year college in the UK, son is struggling (along with me trying to help) on his application essays. Much different process than applying to college in Ireland.
But they have a reasonable ethic. And they have survived me as a father so far.
@TedShifrin You are very patient.
 
Some people here I have little patience for, I admit, but I do try in general.
40+ years of teaching experience has equipped me to know a lot more than the youngsters about what students tend to struggle with.
 
I can appreciate their struggles. I am good with the concrete, not so good with abstract.
 
Well, actually, my trick to teaching abstract algebra was to be very concrete and make students explore lots of examples. Try to discover the understanding/proof by understanding the right examples.
 
The trick to learning abstract algebra is to rush through everything as abstractly as possible and then kick yourself for thinking that was a good idea
change my mind
 
8:48 PM
I take it as a personal attack
 
lol nah but, ANT counts as a concrete incarnation of abstract algebra, so I'm gonna say I'm an applied mathematician
 
the trick is to study symmetric groups and nothing but, then put on a monocle and quote Cayley's theorem
 
lmao
 
ANT?
 
Algebraic number theory
 
8:50 PM
Certainly outside my realm.
 
Absolutely nut topic
 
it's technically an application of abstract algebra, but that's not what @Ted is referring to. I suggest you listen to him and ignore my babbling
@Astyx he attacc
 
It seems to be a good time for Ted to adjourn to lunch. :)
 
Bon appetit!
 
"yeah mate, I'm an applied mathematician, so an elliptic curve $\mathbf{Q}$ is said to be modular if..."
 
8:51 PM
Merci, monsieur.
 
Enjoy! I had a nice walk up at Sibley so am ready for lunch.
 
@Thorgott heh
Every couple of months I look at Wiles' paper and notice I understand three more words
also writing $\mathbf{Q}$ is jokes
nice touch
 
nice, that's progress
One of my friends dads has a math phd and he gave me a copy of his thesis when I was in like middle school, cause I thought it was cool. Now that I've been actually studying math, I sometimes pick it up again and notice that I understand a couple more words in it as well.
though it's still 99% gibberish to me
 
I have the opposite experience with my masters thesis, it makes less sense every time I look at it
 
9:08 PM
guys I have a question
what happens to an inequality when you put absolute value on it?
Like let's put
-2 < f(x) < 5
If I put absolute value on f(x)
what happens?
 
@Thorgott I got into math to understand Wiles' proof and I was expecting some cool shit and I'm just here classifying $\Bbb Q_p$-vector spaces
but I'm in too deep and if I quit now then I'll have to admit that number theory is for losers and my pride is too fragile for that
sooo I'll just carry on pretending I like number theory until I have a Wiles number of 69 and then I can die happy
 
what makes classifying $\mathbb{Q}_p$-vector spaces special
just look at the dimension to classify
@TechnoKnight You get a different inequality. Your question is very open-ended, so I'm not sure what you're looking for.
 
Yes but what inequality I get?
Do I switch signes or what?
 
Well, classifying Q_p-vector spaces with additional gadgets
frobenius lifts and shit
or Q_p-vector spaces with continuous semilinear Galois actions
 
you said it yourself, you replace f with the absolute value of f, that's what you get
@Edward ah, of course, silly of me to not implicitly assume the continuous seminlinear Galois actions
 
9:18 PM
Okay then
Another question
 
you absolute moron
 
f(m) is the transformation of points
when f(m) becomes maximum?
 
lmfaooooooooooooooo
 
9:24 PM
can anyone answer me please?
 
@EdwardEvans lol
 
@Astyx damn man, I'm crying
 
our politicans have their use
 
so lame
but such goot shit posting
 
please
can anyone answer me?
I really need it now
 
9:28 PM
I don't understand your question @TechnoKnight
 
Transformation of points
is f(m)
the question says
 
What's transformation of points?
 
when f(m) becomes maximum?
It's in the complex plane
I believe it's plane transformation in English
 
@EdwardEvans Lmao at the girls singing
 
hahaha
 
9:32 PM
Is it the case that $e^{f(i)n} = cos(n) + f(i)sin(n)$? I have a homogeneous linear difference equation whose solution is $y = A(-i)^n + B(i)^n$, and I'm wondering if I can arrive at the real solution by writing it as $y = Ae^{ln(-i)n} + Be^{ln(i)n} \implies y = A(cos(n) + ln(-i)sin(n)) + B(cos(n) + ln(i)sin(n)) \implies y = A cos(n) - A \frac{i\pi}{2}sin(n) + B cos(n) + B \frac{i\pi}{2} sin(n)$. The solution is supposed to be $y = C(-1)^{n + 1}$. Not sure where to go from here.
 
Join here, I will explain everything
 
@Alessandro haha I saw that recently
made me cover Rain on Instagram
cuz I'm one of those people
 
It's amazing
 
Rob Scallon's work is dope
I love Royale by him
 
9:34 PM
Oh the singer sings in Italian in that video
 
I need a board for drawing online
A website that doesn't require you to sign in
does anyone know something like that?
 
Line Rider
 
9:51 PM
Hello
 
Suppose we have the following inequality $$f(n,y) \leq y(n,x) \leq g(n,y)$$. Let's call the region obtained as $y_{n}$.
Then can we get the form for $\omega_{n_{0}}$, where $$\omega_{n_{0}} = \cap_{n =\frac{n_{0}}{2}}^{n_{0}} y_{n}$$?
Say $f(n,x) = A^{2n} + n x A^{n} B; g(n,x) = -3A^{2n} + nxA^{n}B$, where $|A|<1, B $ is $\mathcal{0}(1)$ real quantities
$n_{0}$ is an even integer!
Can we get something like
$F(y) \leq \omega_{n_{0}} \leq G(y)$ ?
Perhaps these can be done using a computer but I would like to see if this can be done analytically!
May be these can viewed as system of inequalities
 
10:30 PM
@BAYMAX in what set is the region $y_n$?
@Simone Hello
 
:P
 
@BAYMAX also I don't understand how $\omega_{n_0}$ is involved in an inequality, when it was defined as a set.
 
@supinf hm, $y_{n}$ denotes the region between the curves $f,g$
Now if we take several different values of $n$, we will be getting different regions $y_{n}$
they may overlap/ or may be disjoint
 
@BAYMAX so its a subset of $\mathbb R^2$, right?
 
yup! i should have clarified that
 
10:40 PM
I still don't understand how $\omega_{n_0}$ is involved in an inequality, when it was defined as a set.
 
$\omega_{n_{0}}$ will be a region
I want to express that overlapped region $\omega_{n_{0}}$
Since it will be a bounded region
 
you also asked for inequalities like $F(y)\leq \omega_{n_0}$
 
I thought it can be expressed using inequalities
may be we cannot write in that way
As a thought I wrote $F(y) \leq \omega_{n_{0}}$
perhaps it's wrong but I would like to analytically describe $\omega_{n_{0}}$
 
My guess is that this will be very difficult, if the functions $f,g$ are as complicated as in your example.
 
hmm
 
10:50 PM
@copper.hat Here is an article which notes that that was a line from The Admirable Crichton written by J. M. Barrie (who also wrote Peter Pan).
 
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