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12:04 AM
@TedShifrin No, Thank you very much.
 
12:22 AM
What are ordered pairs of the form (algebraic #,transcendental #) called
nvm
 
12:58 AM
They are called ordered pairs.
 
Zee
Lol
 
 
2 hours later…
3:08 AM
(algebraic #,transcendental #) is not even surjective
 
So, is it true that the set of all definable, real numbers is still countable?
 
yeah, unless somehow we started to use a language with countably many letters
 
That's crazy. The concept of the most immediately used and well known uncountably infinite set is full of vastly more unused numbers than used numbers.
 
there's a reason why we knew almost nothing about transcendentals for example
there is simply WAY TOO MANY OF THEM
 
Well, transcendentals are a type of definable number, so there's necessarily countably many of them.
 
3:21 AM
nope
There are uncountably many transcendentals as they have full measure
you can define a class of transcendentals, but not every single of them unless you have an uncountable alphabet
 
Hmm, "full measure?" Don't have a grasp of this concept, yet.
 
There are countably many algebraic numbers and uncountably many reals. There are no numbers that is neither algebraic nor transcendentals. It follows the rest are transcendentals
 
@Secret I dunno, man. I challenge anyone <cough>not in this room<cough> to name more than five of them without having to look some up. Whereas my six year-old already knows thousands of algebraic numbers =)
 
People will probably be familiar with $\pi$ and $e$
some nerds may be familiar with the zeta integers
 
Yeah... it tails off real fast after that. =)
You'll probably grab a couple more by spitting out random greek letter-mathematician name pairings....
"the, uh, Helmholtz omicron, right?"
 
3:29 AM
Euler Maclarian constant $\gamma$ is another famous one for those who have deal with logs for too long
and then you have the uncomputable chiatin constant for those who do computer science
 
The Bernoulli-Bernoulli number, and (of course) the Bernoulli-Bernoulli-Bernoulli number.
(headcanon: mathematical historians centuries hence will be scratching their heads trying to "rediscover" the Bernoulli-Bernoulli number. The Bernoulli-Bernoulli-Bernoulli number, of course, is known to all as the breakthrough that got us teleportation.)
 
$\lim_{n\to \infty}\text{Bernoulli}^{n} \text{number}$
 
Co-author?
=D
 
I like the Louisville numbers
 
you mean Liouville
 
3:35 AM
Where do I remember those from... fluids?
 
Yeah, thought I might have misspelled it.
 
Liuoville theorem meanwhile had nothing to do with Liuoville numbers
Liuoville numbers are the first class of numbers proved to be transcendental. They are also the class of numbers which are "indefinitely" close to any nearby rationals
This is captured by the theorem in diophataine approximation:
$|x - \frac{p}{q}| < \frac{C(x)}{q^n}$
liuoville are those where n tends to infinity
 
 
2 hours later…
6:02 AM
@Secret That won't help
 
6:14 AM
ah right, we need the right kind of letters, not just the number of letters
 
 
2 hours later…
7:48 AM
@Secret It seems that you misspelled Liouville four times there.
 
Lol
 
 
3 hours later…
10:39 AM
how to show conditional probability on Venn diagram?
 
10:54 AM
The key is that the sample space changes when it is conditional
 
11:12 AM
@Secret yes, but how does the first venn diagram in your link show $P(A/B)$
It just shows the reduced sample space
 
"Distress is an inextricable part of life; therefore, avoidance is often only a temporary solution"
Thanks, Wikipedia
 
@Abcd $P(A|B)$ will be the fraction of $B$ that contains $A$. This is different from $P(A \cap B)$ as the whole space is used when the same segment is referred
 
 
1 hour later…
12:34 PM
Is the functional derivative used by physicists just the same as the Frechét derivative on a suitable function space?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:03 PM
liad -> dial
 
2:31 PM
hi @everyone
 
2:47 PM
Heya Lush (Isn't an "everyone" ping a thing unique to Discord?)
 
idk, just wanted to say hello to everyone in a less boring way than "hello"
 
Probably, but it’s an effective way to say hi to the room
 
didn't expect to ping everyone or sth like that
 
3:05 PM
Hi
everyone :)
 
is the size of a partition
the total number you are partitioning
or the number of parts you have
E.G. what is the size of 1,1,1,3,3,4
 
3:35 PM
is $$ \begin{pmatrix} -\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} & \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \\ \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} & \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \end{pmatrix} $$ an isometry matrix?
 
What is your definition of an isometry matrix?
 
its matrix of such transformation F that |F(X)-F(Y)|=|X-Y|
and were talkin abou 2D vectora
vectors*
 
Ok. Can you express that in terms of matrix multiplication? It may be helpful to think in terms of |F(X)-F(Y)|^2 instead
 
3:51 PM
0
Q: All the possible configurations in $\Bbb P^4$ of two planes whose sum is $\Bbb P^4$ and a line

LearnerConsider the real projective space $\Bbb P^4$ and let $\alpha,\beta$ be planes such that $\alpha+\beta=\Bbb P^4$. What are the possible configurations of $\alpha, \beta$ and a generic line $\ell$? Here's my reasoning: $\alpha+\beta=\Bbb P^4$ implies that $\dim(\alpha+\beta)=\dim\alpha +\dim\bet...

Could someone give me some feedback please?
 
well, I don't know where it would go, what does squaring gives me?
 
it makes the algebra a bit easier to work with, in the same way that it's easier to work with |X|^2=x1^2+x2^2 than |X|=\sqrt{x1^2+x2^2}
 
4:11 PM
well ive tried to multiply everything but its too much of calculation i guess
 
If "multiplying everything" means "writing out X, Y, F(X),F(Y) explicitly" then yeah
But you don't need to do that. How do you express F(X) in terms of F and X at the level of matrix multiplication?
 
ye, i did liek X=(x1, x2), so on, its a mess
 
(when I say X, btw, I explicitly have X as a column vector in mind)
Yeah, there's a better way
How are you obtaining F(X) from the matrix and X?
 
if my matrix is A, then multiplyin AX
 
Yep. So you're looking for |F(X)-F(Y)|=|AX-AY|
 
4:15 PM
but im not sure if im allowed to
 
What do you mean?
 
isometry matrix dont have to be linear
 
i mean translation is also isometry
 
4:17 PM
so i dont have assumption that there is 1-1 correspondence between matrices and Fs
 
in that case your linear transformation would be of the form $$X=\begin{pmatrix} x \\ y \\ 1\end{pmatrix}\mapsto AX$$ where $A$ is 3-by-3
e.g. a shift by 1 unit to the right would be $$A=\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 1 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}$$
 
but i also know that if F is isometry then its rotation or symmetry by some line l
 
uh
translation isn't a rotation or a reflection tho
So it seems like you're using two different notions of isometry
 
well i guess then its composition of translation and rotation/isometry preserving 0
 
yeah, that sounds right
it should amount to being able to factorize the 3-by-3 matrix A into a part which only rotates/reflects and one which translates
which seems plausible enough
 
4:21 PM
ye but also im takin care only of 2x2 matrices
 
right. in which case you should only have to worry about rotation/reflection
since F(0)=0
 
oh right
 
So you clearly can't have translations under that mapping
 
so if its isometry then its rotation or symmetry
 
but anyways. We've got a mapping F(X)=AX and we want to know whether |F(X)-F(Y)|=|X-Y|
@chandx right
and we've deduced so far that F(X)-F(Y)=AX-AY. Conveniently, this can be written as A(X-Y)
So now we're trying to figure out whether |A(X-Y)|=|X-Y|
But, how is |X-Y| defined?
 
4:26 PM
well rotation is ((cosx -sinx) (sinx cosx))
right
well rotation is ((cosx -sinx) (sinx cosx))
 
looks right
 
but then it doesnt fit in case of x=pi/4
i mean i dont want to mess up notation, that -sinx is in upper right corner of matrix
 
Sure. So it can't be a rotation.
That still leaves the option of a reflection tho
 
cause we have minus in upper left corner
 
Yeah. If it were a rotation, you'd have some conditions which aren't fulfilled here
So that's out
 
4:30 PM
i also know that
if A is isometry matrix then its invertible and A^(-1) = A^T
 
Ok. Note that the latter condition is all you need, since you can't have A^(-1)=A^T if A^{-1} doesn't exist
(i guess you could say it as "the inverse exists and equals the transpose")
 
daaym right detA is 0
done
 
uh, no
 
jesus
oh wait no, lol
 
ad-bc
Alternatively, you can rewrite the above condition as A^T A = A^{-1}A =I
so you can multiply A^T A and see if it's the identity
 
4:33 PM
right
i guess we have A^T=A
 
Yeah. So you just need A^2
 
daym its I
 
i mean identity
 
and since you already argued that it's not a rotation, it'd better be a reflection
If you want to make that more precise, you should work out the eigenvectors/eigenvalues of A
If it's a reflection, then you'll have a +1 eigenvalue (eigenvector points along the axis of reflection) and a -1 eigenvalue (eigenvector perpendicular to the axis of reflection)
 
4:38 PM
What's the intuition behind $\sigma^2 = \sum p_i (x_i- \mu)^2$ ?
 
@Abcd It's easier if you start with a case where $\mu=0$, i.e. the outcomes are equally likely to be positive as negative
 
@Semiclassical what is variance supposed to even show
 
also its not hard to check that our A is linear,
 
@Abcd it's supposed to be a measure of the spread of your outcomes relative to the mean value
 
@Semiclassical can you give an intuitive example
 
4:41 PM
i also know that if A is linear isometry matrix then if detA<0 then its reflection
 
@chandx sure. more than that, you have A^T A=I -> det(A^T A)=det(A^T)det(A)=det(A)^2=det(I)=1
so det(A)^2 = 1
not a lot of ways to accomplish that if A has real entries :)
(even allowing complex entries doesn't really change the matter.)
@Abcd Sure. Suppose you play a game of rock-paper-scissors. If you win the game, you record that as +1; if you lose, as -1; if you tie, as 0.
Suppose you play a lot of times and want to characterize the statistics of your play. There are a few obvious cases that come to mind.
 
i also know other thing
 
If you always win, then you're always getting X=+1 as your outcomes. Hence the mean value is just +1, and therefore $X-\mu=0$. So in that case you'd get zero variance
Similarly, you'll also get zero variance if you always lose or always tie
 
if F preserves 0, then its isometry iff it preserves dot product
 
@chandx Yep. And that's directly related to that |F(X)-F(Y)|=|X-Y| definition
(continuing) On the other hand, suppose you win/tie/lose at equal frequencies. Then the probability of each outcome is 1/3, so $\mu=\sum_i p_i x_i = 1/3(+1)+1/3(0)+1/3(-1)=0$
so the mean value is zero in that case, just as it would be if you always tied.
 
4:48 PM
gee right
 
Why to multiply by probability?
3
A: Understanding "variance" intuitively

MajesticRaHave a lot of practice teaching laymen about standard deviation and variance. TL;DR; It is something like average of distances from the average. (which is a bit confusing and misleading in such concise version. So read the full article) I assume layman knows about average. I give a talk of Impo...

@Semiclassical I found the example here super-helpful^^^
 
Same reason as you weight the $x_i$ in $\mu=\sum_i p_i x_i$
 
@Semiclassical But the answer doesn't cover the part that why we multiply by probability. Could you tell why we do that?
 
by definition $\mu$ is the expected value of $X$
similarly, by definition the variance $\sigma^2$ is the expected value of $(X-\mu)^2$
If you have zero probability of observing a certain value of $X$, why would you include it when computing the expected value of $(X-\mu)^2$?
Your probability weights indicate how often each possible value of $X$--and therefore each possible value of $(X-\mu)^2$--shows up
 
So X- mu has some probability as X ?
 
4:53 PM
If by that you mean: If $p_i$ is the probability of observing $X=x_i$, then $p_i$ is also the probability of observing $X-\mu=x_i-\mu$
then yes
That's not particular to the mean value, though. It's true regardless of what value we shift by
 
Could you please give an explanation through the thermometer example in the above answer as to why we multiply by p_i ?
 
Sure. In that picture, you've got each point representing one observed outcome
Suppose, however, that certain outcomes happened more frequently than others
 
Ok?
 
e.g. suppose that the outcome closest to the red line actually showed up 10 times whereas the others only showed up once
 
ok
 
4:58 PM
in that case, we'd need to be careful when writing out the mean value as $\overline{x}=\sum_i x_i$
It's still true, but that one value of $X$ shows up more than once
more precisely, you'd have it as $\overline{x}=\dfrac{\sum_i n_i x_i}{\sum_i n_i}$ where $n_i$ is the number of times each outcome shows up
If $n_i=1$, that collapses to $\overline{x}=\dfrac{\sum_i x_i}{\sum_i 1}=\dfrac{1}{N}\sum_i x_i$
The point, I guess, is that there's two ways to regard $\overline{x}$: write down all N outcomes, ignoring whether any are the same, and compute $\sum_i x_i$
 
Nice.
How can $\mu $ be $>1$
Its supposed to show average probability right?
$\mu > 1$ just doesnt make any sense
 
No. Suppose you get X=2 with probability 1.
The average value you'd see is just $\mu=2$
$\mu$ isn't the average probability. It's the average value of the outcome.
And the average value of the outcome can be as big or small as the outcomes allow
 
Whats the use of it?
 
Suppose you flip a coin 100 times, winning 2 dollars when you win and losing 1 dollar when you lose. If it's a fair coin, you'd expect to see heads as often as tails
So the expected value of flipping 100 times would be 50*(+2)+50*(-1) = 50
and therefore the average value of a single flip is +1, i.e. if you played 1000 games the expected value of those 1000 games is +1000
That doesn't mean you'd actually see that for sure, of course. But if your gain after 1000 games is a lot different than that, then you'd question whether the coin is actually fair in the first place.
(The use of the variance is, as the word might suggest, to get a sense of how much variation after 1000 flips is typical. e.g. is being up +950 after 1000 games a sign that it's not a fair coin?)
 
5:15 PM
it makes some sense in statistics surely
but doesnt make much sense in probability
 
5:30 PM
What would you pick if you were to decide on a "favorite way to select 1,000,000 distinct real numbers?"
 
5:52 PM
@Rithaniel Range[10^6] in mathematica
it's not random, but it's simple!
(If I did want random reals, I'd do RandomReal[1,10^6]. random reals in the range 0 to 1, sampled 10^6 times)
@Abcd I mean, you're basically asking about the concept of "expectation value" as a whole
where you have $E[f(X)]=\sum_i p_i f(x_i)$
empirically, those $p_i$ are obtained as $p_i = \frac{n_i}{\sum_i n_i}$ i.e. the frequency $n_i$ with which $X=x_i$ occurs, relative to the total number of outcomes $\sum_i n_i$
so empirically you'd have $\sum_i \frac{n_i f(x_i)}{n_i}$
which, if $n_i=1$, is just $\frac{1}{N}\sum_i f(x_i)$
So you gather your samples, compute $f(x_i)$ for each of them, and take the average value over all samples
Inspired by a question on the main site: Suppose I've got $X,Y,Z$ as quartic polynomials in $t$. It turns out that there exists a fourth-order homogeneous relation between these polynomials, i.e. there's a fourth-order homogeneous polynomial $f(x,y,z)$ such that $f(X,Y,Z)$ vanishes identically
What kind of math would that go under?
Seems like something out of commutative algebra
(To put things in more gory detail, the polynomials are $(X,Y,Z)=(t^4,3t^3+4t,t^2+2)$ and the fourth-order polynomial is annoying)
I can see some things. for instance, X^4 is the only degree-4 monomial in X,Y,Z with degree 16 in t, so x^4 can't show up at all in f(x,y,z)
but I don't know whether there's a systematic approach
 
vzn
6:25 PM
← ~½ thru frenkel love & math, like it :) amazon.com/Love-Math-Heart-Hidden-Reality/dp/0465064957
 
i missed the second frenkel talk yesterday and am kicking myself for it
 
vzn
@Semiclassical (frenkel is quite a character!) did not know too much about langlands program until reading this book, didnt realize it related to FLT. very impressive that he just won abel prize (at ~80). find it a pity that many elite prizes are awarded decades later in late age when the respondents dont have as much chance to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
 
6:39 PM
Hi chat
 
6:49 PM
Hi, hey guys i Need help with some problems of integrability anyone can help me?
 
Not if you don't tell us what the problem is
Are you the one who stared my greeting ? If so I'd prefer you'd not
 
7:22 PM
Hi Ted
 
7:40 PM
@Astyx starred :p
 
I'm pretty sure I did write that second r ...
Weird
 
@Astyx No im not who stared u greeting and my q is about partitions but idk how to write it here
 
Do you know latex ?
 
No Im just got out from my college im in my phone
 
Write it with words then
We'll try to decipher it
 
7:50 PM
Ok just wait its kind a large sentence and sorry for my english btw
Let a>0 and let J:= [-a,a]. Let f: J--->R be a bounded function and let P* the set of all partitions P of J that contain 0 and are symetric (that is x€P iff-x€P). Show that L(f)= sup{L(P;f) : P€P*}
 
What's L ?
And what is a partition ? (according to you)
 
L = the lower sums
And there is a definition that says if a function is bounded the lower and upper sums is equal to
 
Lower sums ..?
 
L(f)= sup{L(P;f) : P€P(I)
 
Oh I think I get what you mean by lower sum
grey being upper sum and green lower sum ?
 
8:06 PM
Exactly
 
ok
And what do you mean by partition ?
 
A partition of I is a finite and ordered set
P:=(Xo,...,Xn)
 
Oh right
Ok that can make sense
 
Points of the interval I
 
For your information you'd rather say the partition is the set {[-a,x0], [x0, x1], ..., [xn, a]}
But I don't want to confuse you
 
8:11 PM
Yea i got that one
 
So did you have any idea about this problem ?
 
Yes i have another excercise that instead of 0 and P* i have to show that a point c is in P_c
 
So c is one of the x_k ?
 
and the solution i dont have it but i think is analogue but this one is more particulary
But the only think i have is to establish some inequalities
And i think i can use a Lemma but i dont kow how to adapt it
 
tell me
 
8:23 PM
specifically the part of his demostration
Says:
If f: I--->R is bounded, if P is a partition of I and if Q is a refinament of P then
L(P;f)<= L(Q;f)
And U(Q;f)<= (less or equal) U(P;f)
 
Right
That's enough to get what you want
Let's call L*(f) = sup{L(P;f) : P in P*}
 
But the problem i dont see how to get what i want
 
First of all we have L*(f) <= L(f). Why ?
 
Because L*(f) contain 0 right
 
No
 
8:34 PM
And its not because is a refinament
 
I think you're confusing some things here
"L*(f) contains 0" does not mean anything because L*(f) is a number
Actually let's call P the set of partitions and P* the set of symmetric partitions that contain 0
So we have that P* is contained in P right ?
 
Hey folks, quick question
 
Yea thats clear to me
 
So for all p in P*, we have L(p, f) < L(f) right ?
By definition of the supremum
 
I have a friend who is taking a masters real analysis course, and it looks like they're going to fail it. Unfortunately, all the masters courses are year-long, so they won't be invited into the second semester of analysis and they also will have a hard time swapping into anything else at that level. I tried looking for professors who might be amenable to them transferring, and I'm not optimistic. Any idea what they might do?
 
8:45 PM
Ok i follow you
 
(that < is a <=)
So if you take that to the limit you get that L*(f) <= L(f) right ?
 
@Astyx The past tense of star is spelled as starred, not stared.
 
I know
Someone already mentioned that to me
 
kind a confuse why to take the limit i mean i see that to establish the inequality but... right right
 
It depends how you define the supremum
Like if x<=c for all x in X then sup X <=c
That's what we use here
 
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