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12:00 AM
I love proving M-V (especially with forms).
 
yes. i was memeing by the way
 
You're not 14 any more, Balarka.
 
I know about the lawsuit, lol
 
Private room I suppose, to not spoil?
 
12:00 AM
NO giving answers, Tasty.
 
@Tasty i was not actually looking for a solution lmao
 
Oh, okay then :P
 
He was trying to make Ted angry.
 
also making a quality up to date meme
 
You make me miss @Hippa ... even if his memes were rude to me.
 
12:02 AM
Me too
His French memes were just smacks lips
 
LOL ...
He was actually very nice in person.
 
So I heard
You met him, right?
Him and other Frenchmen from this chat
 
Yeah, met 3 of the Parisians.
 
@TedShifrin o/
 
Hmm, we were missing one.
 
12:03 AM
Oh speak of the devil
 
Oh, say his name and he materializes ... yet a third demonic person!
 
lmao
 
Comment ça-va, Hippa?
Is there a removal epidemic?
 
@TedShifrin Très bien! Et toi ?
 
Moi aussi, Hippa, merci. Tu apprends beaucoup ces jours-ci?
 
12:04 AM
@TedShifrin hi
 
hi Leaky.
 
@TedShifrin Plus de physique que de maths, mais en ce moment je suis le cours de distributions
 
Ah, formidable. Si tu te spécialises en physique, ça ne me blesse pas :P
 
Après ça reste de la physique assez théorique, donc c'est proche des maths
 
Well, I should be able to think about all this and write down something I understand, given some time :P
Thanks for all the help @BalarkaSen @Danu @TedShifrin, and g'night.
 
12:06 AM
To quote @Mathei, @Tasty, it's really not too hard :P
G'night!
 
No problem! Sleep tight
 
When did I say that?
 
resup my dudes
 
hey
 
@MatheinBoulomenos Approximately.
 
12:07 AM
Fair enough
 
@Ted Ah I think I got it
 
Oh?
Unlike theoretical math, this is quite plain to verify — you either got it or you didn't. :P
 
I had an idea, but I can't make it to work.
It's a different tetris shape you fold to a cube
 
Someone on FB thought it was a hint to say to think about where the four squares in a row must go. But I thought that wasn't a hint at all.
 
I had in mind a column of four squares
 
12:12 AM
growls
4
 
lol this paper is great: pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b44b/… we're basically teaching group cohomology in elementary school
 
man i have a headache and work due soon :'(
rip
 
yeah I have seen that
I really like it
 
LOL @ carrying = cocycle.
 
I think Akiva read the paper thoroughly
 
12:14 AM
I need to send this to my former colleague who quit doing algebraic geometry to write a textbook on elementary school math.
Ah, how has DogAteMy been doing?
 
I haven't talked to him often in the past 2 days
But he was coming up with cool math before my exams
 
@TedShifrin We proved it by writing out a big array of exact sequences, then starting a particular place tracing all of the logical implications for how an element in one place is connected to elements in the other places
 
@TedShifrin That was where I started, and what made it hardest :P.
 
Well, you have to trace things around, @Kevin ... and justify why certain things are independent of choices you make. Yup.
 
I love the proof of LES, but I lover the proof of excision theorem
 
12:20 AM
@Narcissusjewel: I don't see how it makes it harder or easier. It's obvious to start with (or so I thought).
 
@TedShifrin Well, I started there and immediately fixated on the only apparent option.
 
I don't see why it's any different, Balarka. You still have a short exact sequence of chain complexes.
Oh, well, I suppose we all do, @Narcissusjewel.
rehi Demonark
 
@TedShifrin ? The essential idea of excision is not algebraic.
You have to show that the singular chain complex and the chain complex of simplices falling inside the open cover are chain homotopy equivalent
 
Yeah, right. My fault.
That is something I've never taught in any form (we didn't go through the proof when we were doing qualifying exam review stuff — we just used it).
 
12:24 AM
Of course, chain homotopy is still somewhat algebraic as a construction :P
 
True. But I like the prism
That makes it tenfold geometric
 
@TedShifrin Yea left as an exercise to the class, haha, prove that this is independent of some choices we made
 
Well, as you know, I'm very fond of integration over the fiber and crossing with $I$ as adjoint operations ... and that gives the usual chain homotopy for homotopic maps giving cohomologous forms.
 
Right, you told me about that
 
LOL, my colleague just responded: "Oh and it gets much worse: I’m pretty much convinced (and Roger Howe agrees) that elementary school multiplication actually involves working in category theory." @Mathei @Balarka
4
AGH!
 
12:26 AM
Hahahah
 
I always knew it
category theory is everywhere
 
LOL ... explain it to me
 
uhhh
@TedShifrin I'm spooked
 
@Daminark needs to hear this
your thonk will be satisfied to have a resolution of this dilemma
 
12:28 AM
Oh, yeah, I should have pinged Demonark, too, but Demonark's name doesn't ping.
 
lol
 
Balarka, you're unsleeping again.
 
@TedShifrin this is an old one, but i have to wonder if it applies here: smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3777
 
@TedShifrin Well, it's hard to sleep and keep folding and unfolding a piece of low production paper which is supposed to fold into a cube at the same time
 
As usual, you blame me.
 
12:29 AM
Ie that it’s only category theory if you gussy it up
 
Now that you're back, what else would you expect of me?
 
When it really is not anything remarkable
 
@Semiclassic: I didn't see category theory on that page.
 
"New Math" may have been a failure, but "Newer Math" which I propose now, i.e. teaching category theory and cohomology at elementary school is totally reasonable
 
Not directly, no
 
12:31 AM
I may run out of eyes to roll.
 
I rolled 4 1/2 at a friend recently, and I think he had no idea what to make of it.
 
It’s more that spirit of “X math is everywhere!!”
 
Right, Semiclassic.
 
@TedShifrin In reality? lol
 
12:31 AM
@TedShifrin How does one do this?
 
@Balarka: No, in a text.
 
@TedShifrin Wearing glasses, you roll your eyes twice, and then you take them off, close one eye, and half the other?
 
Phew
 
Balarka will have to explain this concept to Narcissus.
 
Or perhaps convoluted optics?
Ahh I see
 
12:33 AM
@Narcissusjewel One does not simply analyze how Ted rolls a fractional number of eyes sometimes exceeding the integer 2
 
I suppose I'll be classified as a drama queen for all these huge numbers (including halves) of eye rolls. :P
 
One sees the statistics
 
Oh, I think there was a 3/4 recently.
 
Hahahaha, I am glad this has occurred.
Oh lord!
 
12:34 AM
Only Balarka uses the search facility of chat to analyze this.
 
I wonder if I can make Ted roll $\aleph_0$ eyes someday
 
Why stop there, @Mathei?
But it's with silliness like this that I kept my students entertained and they worked 20 hours a week on my courses. :P
 
(As time goes on I also feel like the WTF reaction to the kempner series isn’t really warranted either. It boils down to a sophisticated version of “if you write down a lot of digits randomly, at least one of them is probably a 9.”)
 
@Narcissusjewel I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out the expectation and standard deviation of this data, and fit it with an appropriate normal distribution.
 
"probably" with probability $1$?
@Balarka: I suspect we need to redo this numerous times to get anything approaching a normal distribution.
 
12:35 AM
@Semi tbh my favorite thing is simple explanations of sophisticated things
 
OK, I"m off to the kitchen for a while. Take care.
 
@BalarkaSen I'm almost tempted to do it.
 
@Ted Oh yeah, I should probably aim at large cardinals, but I'm not really into set theory
 
@TedShifrin Farewell!
 
@TedShifrin Have fun!
 
12:36 AM
See ya.
 
As the total number of digits goes up, the probability goes to one
 
@Mathei: Even I understand $\aleph_1$, though.
Bye.
 
Bye @Ted
 
I mean, it’s a matter of familiarity to some extent; once you know how kempners series works, it ceases to be shocking
 
Ted's eyes are spin 1/2
He has to roll tham 4 $\pi$ for them to return to their original state
 
12:38 AM
But that’s really not so different from the other examples
 
They did this on Numberphile I think
 
Ignoring infinitely many eyes and places where the number isn't given specifically, I'll have this exercise complete shortly
 
almost every number has a '3' in it or something like that
 
Did I hear category theory @Balarka and @Ted?
Oh I've got some ideas for pedagogy now eyes glow red
 
NANI
It really sucks that I have no mobility on the two squares on the row containing the missing square
 
12:44 AM
Average of 13.044 with standard deviation 33.102
 
Lots of outliers
What's the mode?
(And the greatest value?)
 
@BalarkaSen 6
@BalarkaSen 257
 
Oh god lmao
 
Least was 1.5
He rolled 257 and 193 eyes before. If I remove them
Brings standard deviation down to 3.93
 
much better
Oh no I fucked up my paper
The flap accidentally went inside the hole in the middle
And it's stuck
 
12:47 AM
Yeah, it's not allowed to do that :(
 
I don't understand how this happened
Ok, it's good now
 
Don't get too obsessed with it :P
 
This is surprisingly complicated
 
When can $x^{1/(x-1)}$ be rational for rational $x$
Clearly $x=2$. Any others?
I guess, equivalently, I want $(x+1)^{1/x}=\sqrt[\Large x]{x+1}$ to be rational
by shifting $x$ over one
Incidentally, remember a while ago, someone asked to prove that the only nontrivial rational solution to $a^b=b^a$ is $2$ and $4$?
 
I have thought about that before but I don't know the answer
 
12:54 AM
I think I just realized how to prove it, but I need that last step…
If $a=x^{1/(x-1)}$ and $b=x^{x/(x-1)}$, then $a^b=b^a$.
Furthermore, $b/a=x$.
 
So I want this horror: $(m/n)^{n/(m - n)}$ to be rational?
 
Thus, we just need to show that the only way to make $x^{1/(x-1)}$ rational for rational $x$ is to put $x=2$, and then we're done.
@BalarkaSen Seems it, yeah
 
$p/q = (m/n)^{n/(m-n)}$. I.e., $p^{m-n}/q^{m-n} = m^n/n^n$
$p^{m-n} n^n = m^n q^{m-n}$
Can I do some divisibility argument
$p$ has to divide $m$
and $q$ has to divide $n$
Write $p = km, q = \ell n$
 
No, $p$ and $m$ could both be powers of the same number, right?
$p$ isn't necessarily prime
 
But $p$ is coprime to $q$
I assumed it
 
12:59 AM
What makes you say $p$ divides $m$ and not the other way around?
 
Oh, I mean, sure.
 
I think we just have $p^{m-n}=m^n$ and $n^n=q^{m-n}$
The $\sqrt[\Large x]{x+1}$ formulation might be easier to work with
$\displaystyle\left(\frac{m+n}n\right)^{n/m}$
 
Wait. Just take $x = 1 + 1/n$ for some integer $n$.
 
$x^{1/(x - 1)}$ is perfectly rational
 
1:02 AM
We get $(1+\frac1n)^n$
Wow
 
lol
 
Just a sec so what does that mean for the $a^b=b^a$ thingy? Let's try $n=2$
 
It's the integer thing that bothered me. But I think you do a growth argument there
Aright
 
$a=\frac94$, $b={}$
$(1+\frac1n)^{n+1}$?
 
13 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
When can $x^{1/(x-1)}$ be rational for rational $x$
es la cuestion original?
 
1:04 AM
Yeah but $x=1+\frac1n$ works
 
In fact that's the only solution I think
 
$b=\frac{27}8$?
 
You want $1/(x - 1)$ to be an integer
By some famous theorem on irrationality
 
Does $(9/4)^{27/8}$ equal $(27/8)^{9/4}$?
 
@BalarkaSen like how $4^{0.5}$ is irrational?
 
1:05 AM
lol
rip me
@Akiva Looks right
 
Whoa it does
 
how on earth
 
So $2^4=4^2$ is not the only rational solution
and we have an infinite family
 
kinda true
is this the only family tho
is the question
someone smarter than me can tell you that
 
meh
 
1:07 AM
@AkivaWeinberger how is that related to the question though
 
$\left(\frac{n+1}n\right)^n$ and $\left(\frac{n+1}n\right)^{n+1}$
 
I see
 
One raised to the other equals the other raised to the first
13 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
If $a=x^{1/(x-1)}$ and $b=x^{x/(x-1)}$, then $a^b=b^a$.
 
@MikeMiller Are you generically unenthusiastic about these kind of math, or is it because you hate writing?
 
No it's an acronym @BalarkaSen
 
1:09 AM
@MikeMiller I know you are more a topologist, but I can't seem to find a proof that the contact fields on a contact manifold (M,\xi) are in bijective correspondence with the sections of the normal bundle to \xi
 
I don't parse the question. You're saying "Are you mehing because you don't want to write"?
 
Any idea? Supposedly is in Arnold, but I looked and could not find it.
 
@MikeMiller Yes
 
Remind me what a contact field is
@BalarkaSen I was kinda unenthusiastic about that particular exponential equation but perhaps it will end up being remarkable
 
Sorry, contact vector field. So a vector field whose flow preserves \xi
 
1:10 AM
Let me play with it for a little bit if that's ok
 
@MikeMiller I have learnt to never underestimate mathematics. You never know. Maybe Leaky will get a Fields medal for it
 
Do the $n$ and $n+1$ there need to be consecutive?
Or does $(a/b)^a$ and $(a/b)^b$ work?
 
Then we'll be all crying because we didn't think about it long and hard
 
@anakhronizein Will you allow me to assume $M$ orientable?
 
@BalarkaSen how has this got to do with me
how does this have to do with me
I can't grammar
 
1:12 AM
Yes, that's fine.
 
sorry, the contact field
I want to set xi = ker(alpha) :)
 
what's the correct way to say it
 
Seems they need to be consecutive? I think
@LeakyNun "What does this have to do with me"?
 
thanks
 
Then you're trying to find $X$ so that $\mathcal L_X \alpha = f \alpha$ for $f > 0$.
 
1:13 AM
@AkivaWeinberger but you missed out the "how"-ness of the question
 
@LeakyNun Nothing, it was just a general remark. Do you not want to get the Fields medal?
 
sure
 
That's the spirit
 
Yes that sounds about right.
 
Ok, time to head to bed
toodles
 
1:20 AM
@anakhronizein Here is my intuition. The contact fields should be the same thing as $f R_\alpha$ for the Reeb field $R_\alpha$, and such functions in the orientable case correspond to sections of the (trivial) normal bundle.
such functions == $f$
 
Every vector field is $fR_\alpha+Y$ for a section Y of \xi
So that makes sense.
 
Applying $\mathcal L_X \alpha = e^g \alpha$ to the Reeb field we see that $R_\alpha(\alpha(X)) + d\alpha(R_\alpha, X) = e^g$; we know that $d\alpha(R_\alpha, - ) = 0$, so this is $R_\alpha(\alpha(X)) = e^g$
I suspect this final $e^g$ didn't depend on the choice of $\alpha$
ehhh
There should be something more natural, sorry
 
@BalarkaSen @LeakyNun So I guess another way to say it is, is $(1+\frac1n)^n$ rational only for integer $n$
 
It's fine, this gives me a bit of intuition, thanks!
 
@AkivaWeinberger $\left(\frac{p+q}{p}\right)^{p/q}$, i.e. $\left(\frac{p+q}{p}\right)^{1/q}$, i.e. $(p+q)^{1/q}$ and $p^{1/q}$, i.e. two perfect $q$-powers just $q$ away, i.e. highly unlikely
 
1:31 AM
I want to show that $f(x) = \frac{1}{x}$ is continuous at $x = 1$. Is my choice of $\delta = min(\frac{1}{2}, \epsilon)$ correct?
 
Would looking at contact vector fields transverse to $\xi$ help at all?
 
@LeakyNun Why does the first imply the second?
 
@AkivaWeinberger because $p$ and $q$ are coprime
 
Hm I guess I see how to prove it
 
@orbit-stabilizer only one way to find out (spoiler: look at around e1=0.5)
(disclaimer: e1 is epsilon, but I can't write epsilon)
 
1:34 AM
To be clear I mean $(blah)^{p/q}$ implying $(blah)^{1/q}$
 
54 secs ago, by Leaky Nun
@AkivaWeinberger because $p$ and $q$ are coprime
 
1 min ago, by Akiva Weinberger
Hm I guess I see how to prove it
:P
 
in fact, $(n+1)^q - n^q \ge 2^q - 1^q = 2^q - 1 > q$
i.e. impossible
 
@LeakyNun ooh. Thanks. I see that it goes awry
 
Or $1$
Oh but that's the integer case
Hm alright then
 
1:37 AM
lol, when I plotted the graph I plotted $2^q$ and $q$
so, amendment: $2^q - 1 > q$ for $q > 1$
 
So that settles it. The only solutions to $a^b=b^a$ are $a=(1+\frac1n)^n$ and $b=(1+\frac1n)^{n+1}$, for $n\in\Bbb Z$.
(Or $a=b$.)
 
@AkivaWeinberger nice!
 
(Note that replacing $n$ with $-n$ swaps $a$ and $b$) EDIT: Replacing $n$ with $-(n+1)$ actually
 
a fields medal for you
 
delta = min( 1/2, eps/2) works
 
1:39 AM
@orbit-stabilizer no it doesn't
wait, it does
 
Now time to understand why... lol
 
trust the algebra
 
@LeakyNun :D
That's a great problem. Who'd have expected it would be the approximations to $e$?
 
@AkivaWeinberger ...
$a^b = b^a$
$b \ln a = a \ln b$
$\dfrac {\ln a} a = \dfrac {\ln b} b$
hindsight is a very powerful tool
$\dfrac{\mathrm d}{\mathrm dx} \dfrac {\ln x} x = \dfrac {1-\ln x} {x^2}$ whose zero is $e$
so $e$ is the min or max
and you're finding where it fails to be injective
 
@anakhronizein I am not convinced. I was thinking of that at first as well, but I don't think so. I think it's better to view this as $TM/\xi$.
 
1:45 AM
which tends to, of course, $e$
 
Is this about how when you graph $x^y=y^x$ you get a singularity at $(e,e)$?
It's a hyperbola-looking thing and the diagonal and they intersect there
I'm not quite sure how that implies the thing
 
I didn't look at that graph though
I looked at ln x/x as I have said
there's a peak at $e$
$a$ and $b$ are basically where it fails to be injective
i.e. when a horizontal line passes through two points, one is $(a,c)$ and one is $(b,c)$
if $c$ tends to anything, it has to be $e$ intuitively
I know I'm just talking crap in hindsight
but it is highly related to $e$ as you see
 
I had to come by to greet DogAteMy :)
Leaky's approach looks like what mine would be — not checking details.
 
@TedShifrin Here's something really interesting we were just discussing
If $a=(1+\frac1n)^n$ and $b=(1+\frac1n)^{n+1}$, then $a^b=b^a$.
 
1:57 AM
No typos there?
 
Furthermore, that characterizes all rational solutions to $a^b=b^a$ (as $n$ varies over the integers)
 
Let f be a continuous function that maps the unit interval [0, 1] in R to itself. Assume
that f has a derivative f' which is defined and continuous on [0, 1] and that |f'(x)| < 1
for x ∈ [0, 1].

Show that there is a constant M < 1 such that for all x, y in [0, 1],
|f(x) − f(y)| ≤ M|x − y|
 
ignoring the trivial $a=b$.
 
doing practice problems. I know i need to use the MVT
 
@TedShifrin Nope.
$n=1$ recovers the familiar $2^4=4^2$.
 
1:58 AM
@orbit: You also need to use a property of continuous functions on a closed interval.
 
I know $f'(c) = f(1) - f(0) < 1$
 
But you need an $M$ that works for all $x,y$.
 
@TedShifrin what detail were you referring to?
 
I wasn't.
I just glanced and didn't read carefully.
 
Hmm continuous function on a closed interval is bounded?
 
1:59 AM
More specific than that. And which continuous function are we talking about?
 
It maps [0,1] to [0,1]
 

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