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10:00 AM
to enter a period of chaos or confusion.
 
@robjohn Did you make this?
 
@robjohn I'll just have to get used to it and not understand it.
 
@Srivatsan No, I grabbed it from here
 
@robjohn I know what you're thinking, 'cause right now I'm thinking the same thing. Actually, I've been thinking it ever since I got here: Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?
 
@MartinSleziak if $x\in y\wedge y\in x$, then the chain of inclusions gets dizzying.
@tb Indeed :-) Perhaps if I realize that all of this is a computer simulation...
oh, wait...
 
10:12 AM
So, in mathematics, can things can belong to each other
at the same time?
 
@Skullpatrol Not if you have the Axiom of Regularity as Martin points out.
 
QED
Hello
 
@QED Hi there :-)
 
In mathematics, the axiom of regularity (also known as the axiom of foundation) is one of the axioms of Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory and was introduced by . In first-order logic the axiom reads: :\forall A (\exists B (B \in A) \Rightarrow \exists B (B \in A \land \lnot \exist C (C \in A \land C \in B))). Or in prose: :Every non-empty set A contains an element B which is disjoint from A. Two results which follow from the axiom are that "no set is an element of itself," and that "there is no infinite sequence (an) such that ai+1 is an element of ai for all i." With the axiom of dependent...
 
QED
In axiomatic set theory and the branches of logic, mathematics, and computer science that use it, the axiom of extensionality, or axiom of extension, is one of the axioms of Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory. Formal statement In the formal language of the Zermelo-Fraenkel axioms, the axiom reads: :\forall A \, \forall B \, ( \forall C \, (C \in A \iff C \in B) \Rightarrow A = B) or in words: :Given any set A and any set B, if for every set C, C is a member of A if and only if C is a member of B, then A is equal to B. (It is not really essential that C here be a set — but in ZF, ev...
 
10:34 AM
"no set is an element of itself"
If x belongs to y and y belongs to x, then x belongs to itself.
You can't question an axiom called "the axiom of foundation"
I'll just have to get used to it and not understand it.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:19 PM
@Matt Huh?
 
12:32 PM
@AsafKaragila Wha?
 
12:43 PM
@robjohn Who?
 
@AsafKaragila Whe? the three W's
 
@robjohn Why?
 
@AsafKaragila $y_0$
 
Oh, now I get Matt's comment. He meant three kings.
I have to admit I am a little slow...
 
I am going to make lunch. Ciao
 
12:48 PM
Drei Könige in German.
Bye
 
@MartinSleziak that must have been a while ago. I don't see it in my backlog.
@AsafKaragila what's for lunch?
 
Hello everyone! I thought if there are any Mathematica users among you, you might be interested in this (recently very active) proposal:
 
It's the one to which Asaf reacted by his Huh
 
12:49 PM
@MartinSleziak Okay, thanks.
 
@Szabolcs It was discussed here at meta Mathematica proposal has been closed, new one started
So I guess most people know about it.
 
Ah sorry @Martin, I didn't know about that.
 
I think that perhaps SE site including more mathematical software (Sage, Maple, Matlab, Mathematica, Derive, perhaps GAP) could be better.
But not much can be done about this, since proposal on Mathematica is already going on.
 
QED
I'm opposed to it
 
(I am not Mathematica user myself.)
 
QED
12:52 PM
I agree with Martin
 
@Szabolcs There's no need to apologize - I think that reminding it once in a while is good thing.
 
This reasons why we prefer a Mathematica-only site too (perhaps coexisting with a more general one if it ever laucnhes) has been discussed here: discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/questions/3766/…
 
Thanks for the link @Szabolcz. It is good to know, that this was discussed. When I have more time, I'll have a closer look at it.
 
In short (and from my personal viewpoint), the deepest reason is that the perception is that we will able to build a very functional and enthusiastic community if it's an Mma-only site. E.g. I don't think we could have attracted so many respected experts to commit if it's a general site. The there are the other simpler reasons discussed on the page I linked to
This of course sounds very subjective and it's difficult to show to someone who's not already in the StackOverflow community, but personally I think that among all other possible and discussed reasons, this is the drive behind the choice
 
QED
1:07 PM
why so much free support for a non-free software?
 
@QED My opinion: It's good and it's widely used. (As I already mentioned, in my case this is only based on what people using Mathematica told me.)
 
@JM Do you happen to know if you have a certain drug (by that Belgian pharma company) first in oral pill form and then in oral solution if the effect can differ even if you take the same dose (the uptake might be different, for example)?
 
@robjohn Shakshuka.
 
@AsafKaragila You have eggs?
 
@robjohn I do.
I also had ripe tomatoes which I saved aside for this lunch from a few days ago.
 
1:12 PM
@AsafKaragila Then go for it :-) Sounds tasty.
 
Tomatoes are cooking right now.
I'm gonna give them a few more minutes to juice-out before adding all the spices.
 
@QED At least they now have a Home Version that is more reasonably priced than $1200.
 
QED
If it cost $1 it would still be non-free
 
@QED I was not saying that it was free. Just that it is a lot more reasonable than it was 5 years ago.
 
1:20 PM
@Matt Today is also Epiphany (the end of the 12 days of Christmas).
 
@JonasTeuwen The solution ought to be quicker to absorb; it does take a while for the stomach to process the binders in pills. Why do you ask?
 
Because it feels like Thor smashes my head with a hamer with the solution and in a pill form it doesn't.
 
@JonasTeuwen ooh, messy hammer.
 
Yes.
 
@JonasTeuwen The label mentions headaches as a side effect, no?
 
QED
1:23 PM
I expect to get a lot of downvotes for this discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/a/3969/50721 but I tried to explain in an impartial way
@Szabolcs
 
Well, it's not a headache, it is sleepyness.
 
@robjohn Catholic priests go to every house here and "bless" (I don't know the proper English word) them. They write "GMB + 2012" on the door. I don't know the exact details because my family is protestant.
 
@JonasTeuwen ... then I'm not quite sure why the pills and the solution behave differently in you...
 
Okay 8-).
Nobody seems to do.
I was wondering if the plasma peak could be higher because it is more easily absorbed.
 
But generally: quick-acting - solution. Sustained-action - pills.
@JonasTeuwen That, too.
 
1:26 PM
@JM The pills probably release more slowly into the system. Never mind :-)
 
@robjohn Correct. The starch, cellulose and other binders allow for a controlled release.
 
Well, since it is a solution I can try 3/4th of the dose 8-).
 
(Of course, if you really want something quick-acting, you jab a solution through a vein, under the skin, or through a major muscle.)
 
@Szabolcs: was your spirographic avatar made with Mathematica?
 
@JonasTeuwen You could, but you really should ask your doc first of all...
 
1:29 PM
Yeah, in the leg, through the clothes.
Sure, but she allows me to experiment a bit with it.
 
Oh, so she's letting you titrate? I guess you can do bisection...
 
Yes.
 
@robjohn it was
 
@Szabolcs It's pretty. :)
 
@Szabolcs I believe that @JM's fern was also done with Mathematica
@JM: am I correct?
 
1:32 PM
Yes, it was. :)
 
@Szabolcs I had a candy cane border around my avatar for the holidays that was rendered with Mathematica also.
 
@QED: I don't think it was rude; Szabolcs is trying to wear your shoes here...
 
@JM I wanted a fern originally, but then I came across one of your posts, so I made the wiggly round thing instead :-)
 
Wait, what? I don't remember posting an answer involving Barnsley...
 
@JM I mean I saw that someone had this gravatar already. I might have been you, I am not exactly sure
@robjohn I like to play with graphics in Mathematica. Do you still have your Christmas gravatar somewhere? I like that there are so many "fun" features (even in early versions there was easy declarative graphics, sound generation, animation, and now we have MIDI)
 
1:46 PM
@Szabolcs I have put back the Holiday avatar. If you refresh your chat window, or just look at my profile, you should see it.
It being Epiphany, I guess I can still celebrate today :-)
 
:-)
 
@Szabolcs That's one thing I liked about it. Back in the day, I was heavily using POV-Ray. It didn't take much for me to adapt to Mathematica's graphics.
Now that I think about it, I could have done a monochrome snowflake for Christmas...
 
QED
That's nice
 
@JM buds?
 
@robjohn I guess you could call them that...
 
1:54 PM
@JM Or you could invert it and it looks like a snowflake.
 
@Matt Ah.
 
@robjohn Oh well, maybe next Christmas... :)
After seeing this, I wonder about the series $\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty \frac{q^{n^2}}{n^z}$. It's like the unholy marriage of a Dirichlet and theta series...
 
QED
that function has a really cool graph
 
I am starting to write my thesis.
Anyone got a LaTeX template for an M.Sc. thesis?
 
QED
\begin{MScThesis}
:D
 
2:02 PM
@AsafKaragila Your university doesn't have one?
 
Not really.
 
@AsafKaragila I used the memoir class with a little bit of gradual customization
 
@AsafKaragila Well, what did the people who graduated before you use?
 
Hmmm. I'll check.
I know most people use the LEd prepared stuff. I don't like LEd.
 
@AsafKaragila I really liked how this guy's [thesis(diss.fu-berlin.de/diss/servlets/MCRFileNodeServlet/…) look. He mentions in the introduction what LaTeX package he used.
For my thesis I simply used documentclass report, nothing fancy.
 
2:10 PM
@MartinSleziak Is this M.Sc. or Ph.D.?
 
BTW the above link is Peter Krautzberger: Idempotent Filters and Ultrafilters; the name might be familiar for people how frequent MO.
 
It rings a bell.
Was Blass his external advisor or a judge?
 
@AsafKaragila It's PHD thesis. But not having the source code, perhaps the most useful information from there is: The actual LATEX style is my own modification of the tufte-latex package developed at [Kle].
@AsafKaragila I'm not sure about that. Maybe both?
 
Are you asking me? I surely don't know :-)
 
Tufte LaTeX? That sounds interesting!
 
2:16 PM
Not asking. I'm guessing that this might be the case.
 
2:33 PM
Hmm.
I think that I know what I am going to write in the dedication part.
$\text{"Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope. The death of dreams."}$
Screw quotes in LaTeX.
 
3:27 PM
Okay, I have the general outline for the LaTeX file.
 
3:43 PM
I was too quick on the trigger on this one. Is the solution to close it and then vote to reopen?
 
@JM well, we know it converges for $|q|=1$, but for notthing outside that. It seems to lack all the interest of $\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty q^{n^2}$.
@JM Oops, I thought it was $n^2$ in the denominator. Never mind.
 
@Matt If people had looked at the linked thread instead of just at the title they'd have seen that the question is fully answered there.
 
Good morning, e'one.
 
@Srivatsan it works!
 
Morning @Srivatsan!
 
3:47 PM
But since we're at least four with re-open powers I'm not opposed to it.
 
@robjohn What a relief! =)
 
@Srivatsan how is the morning treating you?
 
@Srivatsan Good day, all and sundry.
 
I may not be around for long -- if my vote is needed somewhere, earlier we do it, the better.
@robjohn How do you like your morning?
 
@Srivatsan over-easy.
 
3:49 PM
Did you think about the sequence question at all? Did I mention that I'm timing you? =) [just kidding, of course.]
 
@Srivatsan Oh, well... I did not have too much of a chance while I was driving my son around, and then I got into writing up an answer I had been working on.
 
@robjohn - which answer?
 
@tb So how is that potential flu of yours doing?
 
@Matt okay, it's quite certainly not a flu :) Thanks for asking
 
3:54 PM
@Srivatsan Actually, what were you testing up there? : )
 
@Matt If I can chat. Long story, don't ask. =)
 
I won't then : )
 
QED
what are the chat issues?
 
Short version: my laptop is falling apart; it's giving me weird problems.
 
QED
I was blocked from chat for some time
 
3:55 PM
@QED What's "blocked" mean?
 
QED
it says "only users with more than 10 reputation can chat"
 
I don't like it when people want "X for dummies".
 
@QED We should celebrate once you get there. =)
 
QED
:)
@Matt, yeah - it's actually a reasonable question but that title makes me wince
 
But seriously: it is not the case that you are logged out and hence can't chat, right?
 
3:58 PM
@Matt Ultra dummies.
 
@DylanMoreland ...or "X for ultra dummies".
 
Isn't that what Dylan said too?
 
I'm quite surprised at some of the questions Kevin Buzzard is asking. Isn't he supposed to be a number theorist?
 
He's a very good one.
 
@tb Maybe teaching a class?
"This is a purely recreational question -- I came up with it when setting an undergraduate example sheet."
 
4:02 PM
@Srivatsan this one
 
@robjohn Oh nice. What's the idea?
 
@Srivatsan I'm approaching it by computing an asymptotic expansion.
I'm just being over-careful about the details :-)
 
@robjohn Hm, right.
 
I think it's refreshing that Buzzard asks such things.
 
@DylanMoreland Which questions are you guys talking about? The new one?
I mean: to me, it reads like any other technical question. I am puzzled by your comments. =)
 
QED
4:06 PM
> Proving you can't make $2011$ out of $1,2,3,4$: nice twist on the usual
that was a good one
 
@QED Oh, that one. That is different, yes.
 
All of them, really. They're not exceptional among questions here (maybe in that they're well written) but for me it's that one of the best number theorists in the world is poking around and asking about simple things.
 
@Srivatsan What Dylan said :)
 
@DylanMoreland I am pleased he even uses SE for asking questions -- simple things or otherwise.
=)
 
Plus he's an interesting character.
I mean
 
4:12 PM
Hint: yellow boots
 
I hope that is not photoshopped...
@tb Oh yes, he is different. I was thinking the joke would be that Kevin Buzzard is not in the group, but is looking out from the window.
It's probably I just don't know enough about him.
Asking myself: Who is Kevin Boots? =)
 
Who's in the wheelchair?
 
Robert Coleman.
 
Looks like a bunch of mathematicians and a hippie.
I'm off now. Ciao.
 
@robjohn Question: does the upper limit on the integral matter? Will the behavior of the integral change if I change the $\sqrt{6}$ to (say) 1?
 
4:24 PM
@Srivatsan Nope.
 
@robjohn In fact, if I understand right, only the interval $[0, O(\frac{1}{\sqrt{n}})]$ is significant...
@tb: In this question, your comment is now gone, making the subsequent comments are orphaned.
 
@Srivatsan It should not shrink that fast with $n$. That would have impact on the result.
 
@Srivatsan That's a really annoying feature of the software...
 
@robjohn Oh right. I meant: $[0, \psi(n)]$ where $\frac{1}{n} = o(\psi(n))$.
Or in other words, by taking a bigger and bigger constant in the "O", we can approach the value of $1$, but the limit will be strictly bigger...
Nah forget it. I am finding it difficult to word it properly...
@JM Yes. But this is the first time I am noticing a problem.
@robjohn Anyway, thanks for the clarification.
 
5:03 PM
Anyone opposed to getting rid of this: ?
 
That should definitely be deleted.
I need my shut-eye, so: I'm off, and see y'all later.
 
6:07 PM
Hi, everyone.
@robjohn got a new fancy userpic upgrade!
 
QED
hi
 
Yes.
 
6:33 PM
But half of the answer to this is here.
 
7:10 PM
So. What's up?
 
QED
Hi
 
I learned about well-founded and dense linear orders today.
 
QED
cool
 
7:30 PM
@Daniil Congratulations.
I had set up the main .tex file for the thesis.
 
7:44 PM
@tb I think I'll write another description of the Borel hierarchy :-D
 
Asaf, do you have a blog?
 
hi $\forall$
 
Hello, @NikhilBellarykar
 
wassup @Daniil
 
8:03 PM
@Daniil No. I did have a passing thought once to start one.
 
8:15 PM
@all I have a question
 
@robjohn, are you around?
 
8:55 PM
Hello there.
Namaste, Nikhil! : )
 
Namaste Matt :)
wassup
 
Nametasting?
 
or namestating?
yes
 
@NikhilBellarykar Not much, I'm done in for today. What's up in Nepal? Must be cold there right now. Do you have snow?
 
Do you ever not have snow?
 
8:58 PM
hey I am not from Nepal but India :)
and that too from Maharashtra, where it never snows :)
 
Darn, I thought you said you were from Nepal! Sorry for mixing you up with someone else. : S
 
@Matt FreakEnum/Mr. Anubis
 
k no problems..I was gonna ask what made you think I am from Nepal :P
 
FreakEnum! Of course! I'll blame my confusion on the name change.
Thanks, Asaf!
 
ohkk
btw where are you from @Matt?
 
9:00 PM
The good thing about having early onset of Alzheimer's is that you can watch the same movie again and not have a clue what's going to happen next. : )
 
cool...Bollywood's fav destination :)
 
: )
Thank you, Asaf!
: )
 
gotcha Asaf :D
what time is it there @Matt?
 
10 pm!
 
2:30 am here
 
9:03 PM
23:30 here.
 
howz d weather @ ur respective locations?
 
@Nikhil: cf. Rule 6 in the Chat Rules.
 
Cold right now. Around 2 degrees.
 
Around 9 degrees Celsius.
 
@AsafKaragila what if l33t spik is intelligible?
 
9:06 PM
@NikhilBellarykar We don't care.
 
@AsafKaragila What? I thought it was always around 20 degrees there!
 
Here it is arnd 25-30 degree selsius
@AsafKaragila okay
 
@Matt Nah. During this time of year it's about 10-20 during the day and 0-10 during the night. Depending on the time, wind and the whatnots.
 
Hello Srivatsan!
 
I dont know where the cold has gone
 
9:07 PM
hi
 
hi Srivatsan
 
Nikhil: If you read my comments, I would like to delete them from the page. =) Off-topic...
 
yes sure :)
 
You should also perhaps delete one of your comment referring to accepting answers.
 
I will also delete my responses :P
 
9:09 PM
Just one of them...
 
ya that only :D
 
OK, got to go. =) See you guys later.
 
seri, cya later
 
@Srivatsan Byee.
 
Anyone knows how to make a symbols index in latex?
 
9:11 PM
not me
 
What exactly does it mean? Like a table containing all the symbols?
 
thought so
 
Yeah. You can see those in books.
 
Is it not just a table?
 
Yes, but you generate it automatically.
I hope.
 
9:13 PM
That's what I meant with the question above. So you want it auto-generated.
 
Obviously, or I wouldn't have asked :-)
 
@AsafKaragila Asaf I can give you my source code to show how I did it. (Of course I do not claim that it is the best way to do.)
 
@AsafKaragila : )
 
I'll check tex.SE first
 
9:19 PM
Hmmm... there is a package {glossaries}
 
Is going to the opera in Syndey worth the (high) price? :-).
 
Only if you're high. rimshot
 
Tchaikovsky rocks indeed!
 
9:35 PM
How it is that five people came to upvote this question of mine is beyond me. I just got the fifth recently.
 
you think that is strange? take a look at this.

http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/96079/3k-1-can-never-be-a-power-of-4/96081#96081
the fact that such a 1-liner got 16 upvotes is strange, to say the least
 
The more people understand the area, the greater is the chance of getting upvotes.
 
seems like math.SE's version of facebook like
 
Also first answer is more probable to get upvotes.
 
That sounds like an apt description, Nikhil
 
9:41 PM
thanks anon :)
@MartinSleziak true
 
@NikhilBellarykar Because it's a good answer. : ) + 1
 
Thanks Matt :)
 
MaX
Die anybody know this one:

_, T, T, F, F,
S, S, E, N, T,
E, T, T, F, F,
S, S, E, N, T

what is the missing letter?
 
E?
 
MaX
It's not E
 
9:45 PM
E?
 
MaX
A friend send me as a teaser,
why asaf ?
 
may well be a teaser literally if the answer ain't E
 
@MaX Why not? It's a finite thing, we can always create enough superficial demands for it to be anything.
 
MaX
lol :D
 
9:48 PM
Alright, what comes next in this sequence: 7, 4, 5, 4, 2, 4, [ ]
 
MaX
42
 
MaX
It must be 42
 
A friend gave me that in middle school and laughed when I couldn't get it for a day straight. Unfortunately, the pattern isn't even mathematical...
 
fan of Hitchhikers guide to galaxy @MaX ? ;)
 
MaX
9:49 PM
lol
Yes, and SPOJ too
try out SPOJ TEST
 
gimme link or sumthn
 
|Alright|=7, |what|=4, |comes|=5, |next|=4, |in|=2, |this|=4
 
wow
It takes a Rajnikanth to figure it out :D
 
MaX
lol, Rajnikanth don't do such menial things :P
 
mse is offline?
 
9:55 PM
Looks like it.
 
Good. I'll return to my writing.
 
Darn it. I was just commenting too.
 
same here
 
Same on which account?
 
just commenting
(or should I just respond "Yes"?)
brb, library computer death and resurrection
For a second there I thought I couldn't log back in b/c MSE was offline.
 
MaX
10:05 PM
btw the answer of my question is O
|O|ne, |T|wo, |T|hree, |F|our ...
 
what the hell?
drats, it's similar to my question...
 
@anon : D
 
MaX
Abstract duplicate ?
 
Maybe we should rename "one" to begin with an "e" so as to preserve symmetry. I'm sure mathematicians will go for it with that rationale.
 
MaX
haha, nicely said :D
 
10:09 PM
Gotta go, bye folks!
 
later
 
MaX
bye Matt
 
10:22 PM
MaX indeed :D
 
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