The Bridge

2:10 PM

Can I play Assassin's Creed III without having played the previous games? How similar is it to RPGs like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion? Is it story-driven assassination missions or do you also make choices through dialogue with NPCs?

pixel

rofl @ the number of downvotes I just got

fbueckert

@pixel Someone didn't like something you said, I bet.

fredley

@pixel That answer needed a hand-drawn red circle

pixel

@fbueckert somebody just used the "you could have googled that" argument against me

Wipqozn

@pixel Which is true.

pixel

2:16 PM

might as well close arqade, we're not allowed to ask questions that could be googled

which is EVERY question.

as I've proven many times in the past

fbueckert

Your two Zelda questions show very little effort to figure it out yourself, and you know it.

pixel

for sure

Invader Skoodge

@fbueckert So what?

fredley

@fbueckert This is not a problem

Invader Skoodge

Was it asked on Arqade in the past?

pixel

2:17 PM

no its good, committee says no

Lazers

2

Q: Where can I find the book of Mudora?

I am playing through the Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. I have completed the first dungeon and I'm looking for the way into the second, but it appears to be blocked by stone. I found a cave with an old man in it, and he says that in order to get into this second dungeon I must find the book...

zelda-link-to-the-past

0

Q: If you die and are resurrected by a faerie, does this still count as a death?

When you complete Zelda: A Link to the Past, you are presented with a variety of statistics about your playthrough, including how many times you died. If you die and are resurrected by a faerie, does this still count as a death?

zelda-link-to-the-past

pixel

I will remove them

fredley

If other people google that question, they will get a high quality answer from this site, that is reason enough.

Invader Skoodge

Having not read the questions, just because it's google-able doesn't mean it's a bad question.

fredley

@pixel Please don't

fbueckert

2:18 PM

The down arrow has as it's tooltip, "This question does not show any research effort"

pixel

Going to have to wait until a mod turns up to delete them

Invader Skoodge

@pixel Don't delete them.

pixel

since people like whining but still managed to answer it in order to get their rep up

@InvaderSkoodge I have to, I can't have questions on my list of previously asked questions with negative votes

0 or higher

fredley

@pixel Why?

pixel

@fredley because it means I have questions with negative scores on them? Pride thing

fredley

2:20 PM

@pixel Fuck that, my lowest voted q earned me a gold badge

(and it's a really shit question)

pixel

@fredley mmh these are low volume questions though

and the reason I asked rather than googling, me spamming google with questions puts more entries into work's proxy log

fredley

@pixel Meh, asking easy, obvious questions is still not a bad thing though

danRhul

@fredley They're not getting a high quality answer though, because it's a poor question. One of the answers could just be 'No'

user7509

@anyone sorry, is this an appropriate place to ask questions that wouldn't belong on arqade itself (like finding out more about assassin's creed iii)? or is it only for meta?

fredley

@danRhul Meh, it's still easier seeing it written out than trying to work it out from forum posts.

No question is too stupid

pixel

2:22 PM

@user7509 its chat, ask away, somebody who knows will answer

fredley

@user7509 This is the place

pixel

@danRhul get eric to delete all of his answers and I will remove the questions

danRhul

The one about the Book is decent enough though

Fluttershy

@pixel I see no reason to delete them. Sure they're easily googled, and they'll get a few downvotes, but they're still valid questions. I say swallow your pride and let them stay.

Anna Lear

@pixel There's a third option: disassociating the questions from your account.

pixel

2:24 PM

I am going to rename to 'drama' I think

it follows me everywhere

fredley

@pixel Remember that each upvote weighs more than twice as much as each downvote. If you're gaining rep, the community thinks it's a good question.

Fluttershy

@AnnaLear Like a community wiki?

pixel

@fredley I actually care more about the answers than the rep

Anna Lear

@Fluttershy Not at all. Like removing the original poster's name from them.

Fluttershy

@AnnaLear Oh. <_< I wasn't aware that was doable.

I just woke up. x_x Can't brain yet.

Anna Lear

2:25 PM

It's a thing we can do by request... as part of our content license. :)

danRhul

@fredley Not necessarily. If a new user had asked that question he'd probably only receive down votes

fredley

@danRhul Really? Interesting hypothesis

Fluttershy

@AnnaLear Can you remove a question entirely? Specifically one that has been merged with another? Because I have one of those floating around, and it's kinda embarrassing.

fredley

@Fluttershy Poke a mod

pixel

@danRhul I am definitely not loved enough to get people upvoting stuff due to association, I would question the validity of this statement

Anna Lear

2:26 PM

@Fluttershy Merge stubs are eventually deleted automatically, if I recall. I can't hard-delete it, but I can soft-delete like any other.

@Fluttershy Link?

Fluttershy

@fredley I did. All he could do was merge it with the other question, but couldn't remove the other one.

@AnnaLear This was the original question.

fredley

@Fluttershy But really, unless it's a high-traffic question, nobody's ever going to see it. SE is designed to draw attention to new or good content. Bad content is hard to find, you have to be looking for it.

Wipqozn

@pixel The downvotes are probably because you're seeding questions.

fredley

@Fluttershy Poke a dev

Wipqozn

9

Q: How many magic bottles are there and where can I find them?

I am playing The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and I was wondering how many magic bottles you can get in total - I have three already but there looks like there is space for a fourth one? I have completed the game many times and have never found more than three. Is there a fourth magic bo...

zelda-link-to-the-past

danRhul

2:27 PM

@pixel I can't see any reason at all why those question have received upvotes

Wipqozn

You're obviously already beaten the game before, and yet you're asking questions like this:

pixel

@Wipqozn possibility

Wipqozn

3

Q: Where can I find the book of Mudora?

I am playing through the Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. I have completed the first dungeon and I'm looking for the way into the second, but it appears to be blocked by stone. I found a cave with an old man in it, and he says that in order to get into this second dungeon I must find the book...

zelda-link-to-the-past

fredley

@Fluttershy It's deleted, what more do you want?

user7509

@pixel @fredley thanks :)

Anna Lear

2:27 PM

@Fluttershy Done. Raven should've been able to delete it, though. Not sure what went south there.

Fluttershy

@fredley It is now. It wasn't when I originally asked. >_>

fredley

@Fluttershy Haha

Fluttershy

@AnnaLear Thanks!

Wipqozn

@pixel Don't seed questions.

pixel

@Wipqozn generally what I was doing though was not remembering where said book was, noticing there isn't a question, asking a question, then finding the book

fredley

2:28 PM

@Wipqozn So? I ask inane Minecraft questions all the time.

@Wipqozn Why?

@Wipqozn Do seed questions

The site has controls specifically for seeding questions and answers. If you've got knowledge, share it.

Wipqozn

@fredley The intention is to ask and answer a question when it was a problem you actually faced. Not just "give me some rep"

fredley

@Wipqozn A useful question is a useful question, regardless of whether you've already beaten the game

Anna Lear

@Wipqozn has it right semantically. We define "seeding questions" as "asking contrived questions for the sake of having more questions".

Wipqozn

@AnnaLear Exactly. It destroys the quality of site.

fbueckert

@fredley A useful question also means the user has attempted to figure it out for themselves.

fredley

2:31 PM

@AnnaLear I wouldn't call @pixel's questions contrived, to a non-player of the game they seem perfectly reasonable

Anna Lear

@fredley I haven't looked at pixel's questions. I'm just speaking in general.

fbueckert

And a tiny bit of Googling would have given them the answer with less effort than asking a question.

Wipqozn

@fredley A lot of questions will look reasonable to someone who hasn't played the game.

fredley

@Wipqozn Someone playing the game for the first time is in a similar situation

@fbueckert So? This is irrelevant.

fbueckert

@fredley The downvotes are specifically for, "I can't be bothered to figure it out myself."

pixel

2:33 PM

@fbueckert I used the google argument in the past, got told its irrelevant

@fbueckert This can be said about any question.

danRhul

@Wipqozn Very good point

fredley

@fbueckert What you do with your downvotes is up to you.

Wipqozn

@fredley Are they? We don't know that. They could find the book without any problems.

Anna Lear

@Wipqozn That's an odd argument. For any question on this site, someone else could figure it out without any problems.

fredley

@Wipqozn But if they can't, and Google it, they'll end up here, which is a win for everybody.

fbueckert

2:34 PM

@pixel No, that can be said about questions where someone encounters a problem, and without trying to figure it out, just posts a question.

fredley

@AnnaLear *answered question

Fluttershy

@pixel He's speaking moreso about the actual text pop-up when you hover over the downvote. "This question does not show any research effort, is unclear, blah blah blah"

user15026

@fbueckert how can you prove that that is what happens though?

pixel

@Fluttershy but he's using the "you could google it" argument

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn Mostly from what whoever wrote it has said.

Anna Lear

2:34 PM

@fredley No, any question. Having answers here doesn't matter if someone figured it all out while playing anyway.

pixel

I've answered over 100 questions just by using google

so its fair to say that argument applies to every single question on the site

and thus ALL questions demonstrate a lack of research

user15026

@pixel a lot of my answers come from creative googling as well.

fredley

@AnnaLear But an unanswered question means that nobody has figured it out!

@AshleyNunn @pixel mine too

user15026

In this case, I really don't see a problem.

Anna Lear

@fredley Or just that nobody who knows the answer uses Arqade.

fredley

2:35 PM

@AshleyNunn Me neither

@AnnaLear True.

fbueckert

@pixel Now we're just being pedantic. I'm not saying they have to spend hours trying to figure it out, just that they should have tried it on their own before going, "Problem? Post!"

pixel

@AnnaLear can you completely delete gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/93758/… please?

Anna Lear

@pixel I'm sorry, but no. It's upvoted, has an upvoted answer, and we don't delete questions when the asker changes their mind. I can disassociate it from your account if you like, but I'm not going to delete it.

pixel

@AnnaLear after the amount of drama in the last 30 minutes, it's the community's wish to delete it

Anna Lear

Nah. It's a couple (one? two? I'm not sure) folks arguing in chat.

pixel

2:37 PM

but if you're not going to delete it, then just leave it as is

fbueckert

@pixel I don't want it deleted.

fredley

@pixel Nobody but you has asked for it to be deleted

user15026

@pixel it might be the wish of a few people. That's not the community.

Anna Lear

The community votes with votes, not bickering.

2

badp

I don't want it deleted

pixel

2:37 PM

that question is actually bad though, and does have a 'no' answer

Invader Skoodge

@pixel I seriously don't know how you got to this conclusion.

Wipqozn

@pixel People downoting is not the same as wanting it deleted.

2

pixel

@Wipqozn read some of the stuff a few of you have said, about seeding questions, accusations of rep hunting, etc etc

Wipqozn

As our favourite puppet put it, a close vote is not a super downvote.

pixel

@Wipqozn he actually said the opposite :p

fredley

2:38 PM

@AnnaLear You clearly don't know the Arqade community that well

badp

wait, Nov 22 is today

ne'ermind

fbueckert

@Wipqozn And I don't think there's a single close vote on any of those questions.

Invader Skoodge

@badp Speaking of

pixel

:6981324 no he did, he said a close vote is not a super downvote, :P

Martin Sojka

@pixel Really? Because I found this site has the opposite problems. I got told my answer was "bad" because you can't find or verify it with Google.

Wipqozn

2:39 PM

@fbueckert Not that I can see.

fbueckert

@Wipqozn There you go.

Wipqozn

@pixel YEah, I corrected my mistake.

I'm a tortoise guys, we can be slow sometimes.

pixel

@MartinSojka large amounts of my answers are generated just using google

badp

@InvaderSkoodge I was 99% certain it was going to be Friday. I'm happy I left that 1% of opening

fredley

@pixel Mine too

Mad Scientist

2:39 PM

A precedent for some forms of seeding: meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/2276/…

badp

I'm also happy I know exactly what that is so I don't need to listen to it again

pixel

@MartinSojka like I had 5 or so torchlight 2 answers before I even bought it

@Wipqozn /pet

Wipqozn

> t should still be organic in these that these are actual, non-imaginary, non-hypothetical questions people had while playing the game -- and that other people on the internet will hopefully run into as well.

badp

In general the idea of question seeding is asking multiple questions in a row where all you change is like a word

"How do I kill Saturn as a Gunzerker?" "How do I kill Saturn as Zero?" "How do I kill Saturn as a Commando?" etc.

danRhul

The fact that question has any upvotes is beyond me. It's like asking what happens if I die in Sonic.

Martin Sojka

2:40 PM

@pixel Yes, but the one time I answered from experience (about the history of MMOs, which isn't google-able since a good part of it happened before the WWW was invented), I got told I needed references. :)

pixel

@danRhul does sonic have a counter of how many deaths you have at the end, and a mechanic to resurrect you where you died?

Martin Sojka

And no, "Damn well ask Dr. Richard Bartle or Raph Koster yourself." was not deemed enough of a reference.

Wipqozn

Just making up questions for rep doesn't indicate there is an actual problem to be had. Furthermore, if the problem is really basic it can be worthy of a down vote. Remember, lack of research doesn't just mean you didn't "google it", but lack of research in the game as well. When does this cross the line into downvote Territory? Well, that depends on the user voting. It's a subjective meter.

badp

@MartinSojka eh, we aren't Wikipedia and not all claims have to be sourced

Anna Lear

@Wipqozn +1

pixel

2:43 PM

you know, out of all of this, the only bit that even bothered me at all was the 'you should have googled that'

badp

just the more you pour into an answer the more reps you get from it.

Martin Sojka

@badp I know. I just report from what I experienced here. :)

badp

@MartinSojka Yeah, well, just saying that somebody calling bullshit on you once doesn't mean you have to source like it's Wikipedia :)

(If you do, more power to you)

danRhul

It wasn't you should have Googled that. It's you could have.

pixel

could/should - same thing in context of what else was happening

danRhul

2:44 PM

Essentially just re-iterating the point that it had no research.

badp

Are we talking about this still?

pixel

ultimately, I stand by using "you should/could have googled that" applies to everything on this site

Martin Sojka

@badp It wasn't "calling bullshit" it was "this question is unanswerable; how dare you answer it!"

pixel

@badp no, this

You could have figured this out with a 5 second google search. — Eric B 31 mins ago

Wipqozn

Also, I forget who said it now but someone mentioned that one of @pixel's questions were too basic since someone could just say "No". That doesn't mean the question is too basic. That's a problem with the answer.

badp

2:45 PM

@pixel tbh even I know all LoZ games have a maximum of 20 hearts :P

Martin Sojka

That was something like a year ago though, so the sentiment might have changed. :)

badp

still

pixel

@badp gz you, I didn't

Wipqozn

@badp Yes. I don't think that is a good question (but I didn't down vote).

badp

@pixel Yeah, it's the same kind of looks I got when I asked...

19

Q: How to get through one-block-high passages?

Mario needs a diet. There's not enough room to fill up the P meter, all the pipes are out of reach and no shells are coming my way. Am I screwed? (This is in World 7-5.)

super-mario-bros-3

pixel

2:47 PM

@badp it doesn't seem to have generated the same reaction imo

Martin Sojka

@badp Everyone besides those 20 are heartless zombies? (Which probably says more about how much I know those games ...)

Wipqozn

Also, just to circle back to pixels question:

5

Q: If you die and are resurrected by a faerie, does this still count as a death?

When you complete Zelda: A Link to the Past, you are presented with a variety of statistics about your playthrough, including how many times you died. If you die and are resurrected by a faerie, does this still count as a death?

zelda-link-to-the-past

pixel

@Wipqozn FYI, that's the one I asked to be deleted

badp

@danRhul This is the argument behind the general reference close reason: "Google already answers this question." I feel that this is in general not a good close reason. Creating a page that says "GOOGLE HARDER NUB" does not make the internet a better place to be.

Lazers

2

Q: What are the maximum number of hearts you can get?

In Zelda: A Link to the Past, it is possible to get additional hearts by completing dungeons (which gives you a full heart), by finding very rare full hearts out in the game world, and by collecting pieces of heart in order to create a new, full heart. What is the maximum number of hearts you ca...

zelda-link-to-the-past

Wipqozn

2:47 PM

This is a good example of a question that researching the game isn't easy. If you're trying to avoid any deaths, then testing this in-game would be a terrible idea.

We have several situations like this before "I want to know X, but I'm unable to test it because Y".

danRhul

@badp You're just hiding behind Google as an excuse. The main reason is that it shows no research, it just so happens that the easiest way to research this was to Google it.

Which, lo and behold. Would have saved us all this bullshit

fbueckert

@badp To be fair, I didn't actually know that, and I've played like every Zelda game.

badp

@danRhul Okay, what other kind of research can you think about?

Wipqozn

Could @pixel have googled it? sure. If you feel that pixel should have put more effort into finding the answer on the internet then you're welcome to down vote. However, also remember there is the issue of credibility. Sure, pixel might find an answer somewhere on the internet but she might not trust the source. Wanting to find a more trust worthy source is hardly a problem./

badp

Are there ingame hints or bits on the paper manual that say your heart limit is 20?

Mad Scientist

2:50 PM

This site is really question-limited, not answer-limited like many of the more technical sites. I don't think we should try harder to discourage questions by requiring more research, I still think we have rather few questions for a site of this size

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Then you're a silly butt.

fbueckert

@Wipqozn I never made the correlation before!

I was too busy having fun!

Anna Lear

@fbueckert Fun in a video game? you're doing it wrong. ;)

badp

The idea at any rate is that "not enough reserach" is not a close reason, but a downvote reason.

fbueckert

As a sidenote, all this drama about Zelda is ruining my nostalgia, people!

Stop iiiiiit!

danRhul

2:51 PM

@badp AskJeeves ;)

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Link to the Past is best Zelda.

user15026

@fbueckert go play Majoras Mask. That will fix you.

badp

@danRhul Oh please, I hoped you had an actual point to make

user15026

@wipqozn agreed!

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn Sidenote: I haven't actually played any of the N64 ones.

But I've played all the rest!

pixel

2:52 PM

@Wipqozn +1

Wipqozn

@fbueckert SALDPOASDPadk;lasdksa;lfjkasdiofh439fjdfklaf834ujfksdlfjselkjrhsegljkh4jtg

user15026

@fbueckert gasp you...... What. What. No. This. Cannot. Be.

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn Majora's Mask came out for...3DS, right?

And Ocarina of Time?

Wipqozn

@fbueckert No, that was OOT.

If you have a Wii you can buy both via the VC.

danRhul

@badp My point was that research and Google inherently go hand in hand. Just because something is Googlable, doesn't mean that it's not a good way to research an answer

user15026

2:53 PM

@fbueckert no, no MM 3ds release yet.

Wipqozn

@AshleyNunn One day.

fbueckert

I guess I know what my next 3DS purchase will be, then.

user15026

@wipqozn we can hope.

danRhul

In fact, I put it to you that the highest probable way of finding an answer is to Google it.

user15026

@fbueckert dooooo it.

fbueckert

2:54 PM

@AshleyNunn I always have to have a Zelda to play over the Christmas holidays.

Last year was Skyward Sword.

Wipqozn

►

@fbueckert Do you like side quests?

user15026

@fbueckert then you totally need OoT.

Martin Sojka

@Wipqozn In addition, there are also questions where "research this yourself in the game!" could be a stupid idea. Like, theoretically, "What's the chance of meeting a Spider Jokey in Minecraft?" For statistically relevant results, you need days. Or you grab someone who knows Java, they look at the end of EntitySpider.java, and tell you that 1% of naturally spawned spiders are generated with a rider in less than 5 minutes. Problem is, not everybody knows Java ... or how to decode Minecraft.

fbueckert

@Wipqozn I finished all of Skyward Sword's sidequests. Got the Hyrulian shield and everything.

badp

@danRhul Okay - it gets in the way of other people's highest probable way of finding an answer to this question if we just put up a page that says "GOOGLE HARDER NUB"

Wipqozn

2:55 PM

@fbueckert Majora's Mask is the perfect game for you then.

Anna Lear

@danRhul Sure. But ideally Google leads someone here and not to a forum where the answer is buried. :)

fbueckert

@Wipqozn I may wait for a remake, then.

Wipqozn

I love the side quests in that game. It just makes you care so much more about the characters, which in turn just makes it that much more stressful. It also makes it feel so much better when you actually beat the game.

fbueckert

I don't think I can stand the crazy polygons from the N64 era.

user15026

@fbueckert it is on the wii VC if I remember right.

badp

2:56 PM

As for repeating what's already around on the internet, you can lament wasted effort by people who could've answered something else... but the effort's already been spent and deleting the question is what'd make that effort perfectly useless

danRhul

Of course, but the good questions and good answers add more than Google does. This is not one of those questions. It is so far from being one of those questions

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn Pretty sure @TrentHawkins owns it if I really want to play it.

badp

@Wipqozn Wait, your thought process is that Majora's Mask is the perfect game for him because the global time limit means it'll be hard to do all the sidequests

user15026

@fbueckert fair enough. But I do really recommend the OoT 3ds remake.

Wipqozn

@badp You can rewind time.

badp

2:57 PM

@Wipqozn Yeah, but doesn't that reset a bunch of stuff?

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn I'll be picking up Kingdom Hearts 3DS soon-ish.

Squeenix's Black Friday deal includes that for $20.

Wipqozn

@badp Yeah, but you still have the rewards.

user15026

@fbueckert I won't pick it up until I finish the first two which won't happen til I finish for the term (at the earliest)

Wipqozn

►

fbueckert

@AshleyNunn Don't forget Chain of Memories, Re:Coded, 368/2 days, Birth By Sleep, etc., etc.

Wipqozn

2:59 PM

@fbueckert mmm, milk. Delicious, delicious milk.

user15026

@fbueckert shush.

Martin Sojka

Speaking of something else, remind me of only posting silly double entendres as Twitter quotes from now on. If I post them directly this only seems to lead to a chat ban. :D

fbueckert

@Wipqozn That's a non-sequiter if ever I've heard one.

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