The Bridge

@murgatroid99 That provides another point. There are countless tools available to users to provide this exact service. If we allow this, it will just be one of us who runs the tool, instead of the person asking.

murgatroid99

6:08 PM

@fbueckert I agree, and I think that this may be the first actually good point against these types of questions

fbueckert

I think a better response is to point them at the tools instead. Provide user education. Teach a man to fish and all that.

Patrick Stalder

Yes I agree a "let me Google that for you"-link if some sort might Do the Trick.

pixel

@murgatroid99 @fbueckert those tools identify screenshots of the secret world as dominion

murgatroid99

@pixel can you give an example screenshot?

@PatrickStalder lmgtfy is highly discouraged

117

Q: Ban lmgtfy (let me google that for you) links

I've just asked a question on Stack Overflow which was a prime candidate for googling. I admit it was a poor question and with a little bit of research I would have found the answer. What annoyed me was someone in the comments put a let me google that for you link. It got right up my nose. I fin...

pixel

fbueckert

6:15 PM

@pixel In cases like this, I would argue that the reason the screenshot is mis-identified is because the game is still VERY new. And in cases like that, it's going to be extremely rare to find a screenshot of a new game that's not going, "Check out this new game, X! Look how cool it is!"

Patrick Stalder

@murgatroid99 ok i did Not know that.

pixel

@fbueckert I would argue because the colour palette is very similar to the other game

@fbueckert there are loads of TSW screenshots up

murgatroid99

@pixel did you take that screenshot? It's kind of tough to take a screenshot yourself and still not know what game it is

fbueckert

@pixel And how many of them don't provide identification?

pixel

I was testing the system

Ronan Forman

6:16 PM

@pixel It doesn't analyse the picture, it looks for where it was posted elsewhere.

fbueckert

I'm genuinely curious to see how often someone posts screenshots of a new game and doesn't tell anyone what it is.

Lazers

0

Q: What if asker accepts a question that has an incorrect answer?

I have found conflicting reports of how often Paralysis procs in Skyrim as an enchantment, so figured to ask it here. I did a search first, and found this question: What is the chance of paralysis on an enchanted weapon? However, there is no reference to where this answer came from, and indeed...

discussion

murgatroid99

@pixel but the point is that people won't ask what game is in a screenshot that does not already exist on the internet

pixel

@RonanForman are you sure about that? Every picture I've uploaded has returned pictures of similar hues and colour palette

murgatroid99

@pixel it looks for the exact picture, then for similar ones

pixel

6:20 PM

system isn't infallible

Ronan Forman

@pixel Have you tried with a picture you didn't take?

pixel

that is a pointless exercise

googling for a picture to google is just insane

the internet might crash if I do that

Sterno

Now awaiting your downvotes!

0

A: Revisiting the Identify-this-game ban

Opening the floodgates? I don't buy it I feel that the argument of "If we ever allow anything even remotely approaching a question that asks for identification of a game, we're going to open the floodgates and will have to start closing thousands of questions and argue with people in meta all da...

murgatroid99

@pixel but asking what game is in a screenshot that you took is equally pointless

Ronan Forman

@pixel Then how can you say the system is fallible if you haven't tested it?

pixel

6:22 PM

@RonanForman I am going to be a complete bitch now, and screenshot something out of a TV show just to disprove you

fbueckert

@pixel Actually, I think that would be one of the main applications of this exception. :P

David B

@pixel googling for a picture to google is exactly how I found that thread

Ronan Forman

Even so, it's still too localised.

murgatroid99

@RonanForman wait, what is too localized?

pixel

Ok I know you guys are going to really struggle to get over the obvious

But take the picture from the Breaking Bad question

and ignore the first result

(as the first result is us)

Ronan Forman

6:25 PM

@murgatroid99 ITG questions, it's why they were closed in the first place.

murgatroid99

@RonanForman no, it's not

pixel

The method you're pushing as the saviour does not detect the game as RAGE

Don't hate me for the irony of using something that obvious to disprove you though

murgatroid99

@pixel as @fbueckert said about 30 seconds ago, that is one of the only useful exceptions to this technique

Ronan Forman

@murgatroid99 Who does it apply to other than the asker?

murgatroid99

@RonanForman that breaking bad question could have a large number of people wondering what the game is

pixel

6:27 PM

he said nothing about technique, he said grabbing a screenshot from a video would be one of the main applications of this

murgatroid99

@pixel "main applications of this exception"

pixel

but there are exceptions

thus the system isn't infallible

which is all I was asked to prove

murgatroid99

@pixel OK, we all agree that there are exceptions, but screenshots of video games, which is what the original question proposed, is not one of them

fbueckert

@pixel I think you're misinterpreting what I said.

pixel

@fbueckert like every other time

David B

6:30 PM

I have lost the conversation... are we talking exceptions to the ITG ban, or exceptions to capabilites of image identification systems

fbueckert

@pixel You're more pedantic than a programmer. :P Now I know how annoying I can be to other people. :P

murgatroid99

@DavidB yes

pixel

TOP SECRET

OrigamiRobot

@pixel I love that book

David B

I'm exactly as pedantic as a programmer, yet I feel outmatched in this room

pixel

6:31 PM

Pedantic is my middle name

well, one of them

murgatroid99

@pixel did you know that anyone can see the edit history of any chat post?

fbueckert

I think one of the only exceptions I would agree to would be screenshots from TV shows, specifically because it would be extremely hard to identify that without expert knowledge.

Ronan Forman

@pixel You know that doesn't work, you've got to delete it if you don't want people knowing what you said.

pixel

@murgatroid99 yes

the point is, by naming it to top secret, most of you looked

murgatroid99

@pixel I had already read what you said. I just wasn't sure if you knew that we still could

fbueckert

6:32 PM

Everything else can be resolved with a simple Google Image search, or Tineye.

Ronan Forman

What about just googling for the answer anyway? breaking bad video game jesse

pixel

I just like people pinging me

fml

murgatroid99

@RonanForman you're right, that took about 3 seconds on Google

Fluttershy

@RonanForman blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/08/learn-more-about-rage.php

fbueckert

@Fluttershy Which points out the game wasn't even out yet.

Which means the question would've been off topic if it had been asked when the episode came out. :P

pixel

6:34 PM

Not really, it didn't involve any speculation

fbueckert

I find the irony of it amusing.

Fluttershy

@pixel It would have, had it been asked when the episode first aired.

murgatroid99

@fbueckert no, it wasn't speculative. It was the screenshot from a particular game

pixel

2v2, pick your side, speculation or not?

:P

@Fluttershy when was the episode aired?

Fluttershy

@pixel August 2011. "If you watched "Problem Dog" this past Sunday night, you saw Jesse playing a video game called RAGE® in the episode's opening scene. In reality though, you can't play RAGE® yet. The highly-anticipated first person shooter from Bethesda Softworks and id Software doesn't hit stores until Tue., Oct. 4, available for PS3, Xbox 360 and PC."

pixel

6:36 PM

let me just see when the game was annouced

murgatroid99

@Fluttershy but it was RAGE. That part wasn't speculation

pixel

because if you disagree with questions about games that aren't out yet but have been announced a large portion of questions on this site are off topic

murgatroid99

@pixel example?

Fluttershy

@pixel Doesn't matter when it was announced. We don't handle questions about future releases. If the game isn't readily available to the public, we don't allow them.

pixel

was officially announced on August 2, 2007

I think 4 years is sufficent

Fluttershy

6:37 PM

@pixel Cool. But it wasn't released yet. Therefore, off-topic here. If it had been asked when the episode first aired.

David B

@murgatroid99 example: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/guild-wars-2

pixel

Does it state in the FAQ does it say future releases are off topic?

Oh and

guild-wars-2

murgatroid99

@DavidB have people been playing that game?

pixel

It hasn't been released

David B

through "pre-order" beta windows

pixel

6:38 PM

@Fluttershy clearly stated its not publicly available

it's only privately available to a select few

Fluttershy

@pixel Our handling of open betas is finicky. believe me, I've tried arguing the point.

pixel

inb4 backtracking

dammit, I wasn't in before it

David B

it's publicly available during beta windows if you pre-order. so that's a special case

Fluttershy

@pixel Also, the FAQ states that "Speculation of the future of the industry and of upcoming releases" are off-topic.

murgatroid99

@Fluttershy but what if the question is not speculative?

pixel

6:39 PM

@Fluttershy Its not speculation, that has already been established

@Fluttershy that game had been announced = not speculation

murgatroid99

@Fluttershy "that game was RAGE" was a fact, even before the game was released

Fluttershy

I don't even know why we're arguing this right now. It's fucking pointless. The question would have been closed had it been asked when the episode first aired, prior to the game's release.

David B

well, technically it is specualation that the game will launch, and launch under that name. but the odds were really good at that point

James

►

David B

it was closed today, right? :)

Fluttershy

6:41 PM

Since it wasn't asked prior to the game's release, it's still open. Even though it shouldn't be because it's a god-damn REQUEST FOR GAME IDENTIFICATION.

David B

oh, I stand corrected

James

Yes that is Joss Whedon as an action lead in a story told by a kid :D

pixel

@DavidB different reasons though

@Fluttershy the only point that you've made that sticks is ITG being off topic. It wasn't speculation, thus isn't against the linked point you made from the FAQ

and I can't help but think that you're overlooking the obviousness of that fact just because of some hatred you have towards ITG

Fluttershy

@pixel I don't really know how I can be much clearer... We don't handle future releases unless they are in an open beta, or are otherwise readily available.

pixel

@Fluttershy where in the FAQ does it state that

fbueckert

6:44 PM

Personally, I wonder how we could've authoritatively identified that, had it been asked then, before the game was released.

Alok

@murgatroid99 That's sad; there are some cases where its a very good reply imho - why would we want to encourage trivial questions?

fbueckert

Last I checked, it's sort of hard to be experts at something that's not out, privately or not.

murgatroid99

@Alok You can discourage trivial questions without being a dick

David B

@pixel "•Speculation of the future of the industry and of upcoming releases" from the faq

pixel

@fbueckert you don't think 'gaming enthusiasts' would follow the next generation release from id software?

@DavidB it wasn't speculation, find me the bit in the FAQ that states future releases can't have questions

fbueckert

6:45 PM

@pixel It's hard to tell now, but at the time, I don't think we could have conclusively identified it.

user15026

...."and of upcoming releases"...

murgatroid99

@Alok see also blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/07/kicking-off-the-summer-of-love

fbueckert

Short of someone from id coming out and saying, "Yeah, that's our new game."

pixel

@AshleyNunn its a full sentence, speculation still applies after the 'and'

Alok

@DavidB Its a beta, features may change bla bla - where does it state we only allow public betas while banning all other future game discussion?

David B

6:46 PM

@AshleyNunn "•Speculation ... of upcoming releases"

murgatroid99

@fbueckert that's a good point

pixel

@AshleyNunn that line states: "Speculation of: (a) future of the games industry, (b) upcoming releases"

Fluttershy

@pixel Read up on meta a bit before you try arguing this point more.

pixel

Therefore there is nothing in the FAQ that makes that question off topic

Ronan Forman

Okay I have an idea, we let them be on topic, because it really makes no difference seeing as there are no questions that fall under the category that can't be closed for being too trivial and easily googlable.

David B

6:47 PM

yes, gotta get up on meta

Fluttershy

And with that, I'm done with The Bridge until this shit is sorted. I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore, and further discussion is going to result in a request for account deletion from me. Someone ping me on Steam when this is over.

user15026

@Fluttershy Will do.

Alok

@murgatroid99 I tend to just ignore them - but if someone asked stuff like 'Who is the publisher of DOOM?' and they got an lmgtfy link, I wouldn't feel bad for them at all

pixel

lol threatening me with account deletion

murgatroid99

@Alok do you not get the part about "don't be a jerk"? Did you read the top pinned link in this chat room?

fbueckert

6:49 PM

@Alok If an established user asked that, I'd give them a metaphrical smack upside the head.

A new user, though, I'd try to be nice about it. "Hey, dude. I plugged your question into google, and it came up with X. Does that help?"

Alok

@DavidB 'Speculation of ... upcoming releases' should be different from concrete questions about them, like say specific questions on how things work even with a closed beta

user15026

@pixel lets all abide by the "dont be a jerk" rule, hmmm?

fbueckert

@pixel I think he was referring to HIS account.

pixel

@AshleyNunn Sorry, I just got threatened by an established user on account that I asked for solid evidence from the FAQ and wasn't given it.

FAE

@fbueckert Aye.

user15026

6:50 PM

....he wasnt threatening you.

David B

here's a meta meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4111/…

pixel

I guess you're a mind reader now as well

fbueckert

@pixel Try to take things just a little less personally, please. Not everything is automatically referring to you.

Grace Note

Hold, it, cool down

pixel

Can anybody remember the term that @LessPop_MoreFizz used to define what the FAQ is?

murgatroid99

6:51 PM

@pixel we saw Powerlord do it, so it's not that far-fetched

pixel

Because it solidly ruled what the FAQ means

was a very good description

murgatroid99

also Arda, sort of

David B

and another meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/2512/…

Grace Note

@pixel For the record - we never take deletion requests from people other than the owner

pixel

@GraceNote understood

So it makes it immature rather than a threat

Grace Note

6:53 PM

Having some sort of thing where people can request other people's accounts to be outright deleted is inane - I'm pretty sure the others are correct in their observation that Fluttershy is considering self-deletion out of exhaustion with this.

Anna Lear

@pixel I think he was talking about requesting deletion of his own account.

user15026

Immature? @pixel are you intentionally being rude?

FAE

@GraceNote Yes, this is the correct assertion.

pixel

I'm not being intentionally rude, no

user15026

You are being rather disrespectful, imho

fbueckert

6:55 PM

@GraceNote Which would be a crying shame, really. I respect and value @Fluttershy's opinions.

Grace Note

Let's backpedal a bit - can someone give me a link to where this all starts (for today's session, at least?)

Alok

@murgatroid99 I can't read the linked 'What SO is not' thread as I'm not 10k hehe. But I do expect users to have some consideration towards a community too; there are blindingly obvious questions that I would never ask even on gamefaqs, ask.yahoo or generally anywhere at all - and if I did so by mistake, I would not feel bad for it being pointed out. That said, I do understand the intent of that post; and personally I just ignore the bad questions/answers if I can't leave helpful comments

fbueckert

@GraceNote Uh, the rudeness? Or the discussion about ITG?

Kortuk

(and mods invade)

pixel

@AshleyNunn not as disrespectful as making up rules based on thin air, not backed up by the FAQ on the grounds that I don't like that particular type of question

badp

6:56 PM

@GraceNote I hope it's not chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5473934#5473934 you're talking about

fbueckert

@Kortuk hides :P

Grace Note

@fbueckert The earlier point of both, probably

Alok

@fbueckert Yeah, agree with this. Rep > 200 and still asking BS questions? lmgtfy ftw :P

OrigamiRobot

in V'dibarta Bam, Jul 18 at 17:26, by OrigamiRobot

in Mathematics, May 31 at 12:04, by OrigamiRobot

Let's all be friends!

murgatroid99

@GraceNote I think around here (for a long conversation): chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5474541#5474541

Sterno

6:56 PM

@Fluttershy It is absolutely ridiculous to be a slave to a rule in a situation like this. "Oh, hi! I know the game is Rage, but now that we've identified that as the answer, this question must be closed for 3 months until the game's release"

Common sense needs to apply. Let's not be a slave to rules and put ourselves into stupid situations.

2

pixel

@Sterno there isn't even a rule

Wipqozn

Why am I being shot at?

murgatroid99

9 mins ago, by Fluttershy

And with that, I'm done with The Bridge until this shit is sorted. I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore, and further discussion is going to result in a request for account deletion from me. Someone ping me on Steam when this is over.

fbueckert

@GraceNote Somewhere around here, I think: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5476381#5476381

Not 100% on that.

pixel

It wasn't speculation, therefore it is exempt from that part of the FAQ

murgatroid99

6:57 PM

@pixel he did link to meta questions about new games that kind of showed that there is a rule

fbueckert

@Wipqozn Because you're @Wipqozn. You need a reason?

pixel

Since when does meta overrule FAQ?

Wipqozn

@fbueckert I suppose.

murgatroid99

@pixel since always

Sterno

@murgatroid99 I missed that message, but at the same time, if Bridge chat makes someone delete their account, I won't miss them

Anna Lear

6:58 PM

@pixel Not everything can land in the FAQ. Meta is intended to supplement it.

user15026

@pixel meta is like expanded faq

Alok

@Sterno +1 This

Wipqozn

So... I get the feeling that I just missed a huge shit storm.

murgatroid99

@Sterno I linked for the part about him going away for now

pixel

meta is like rules changed based on the direction of the wind

murgatroid99

6:58 PM

@Wipqozn yep

fbueckert

@Wipqozn Follow linky above.

Sterno

@murgatroid99 Yeah, I'd been catching up on back chat and hadn't read all the way to that part, or I probably wouldn't have responded to him. At the same time, I don't plan on deleting my message now

Wipqozn

So I take it the tl;dr is ITG?

pixel

@Wipqozn yeah pretty much

my point wasn't about ITG, I feel their points were

Sterno

@Wipqozn yeah. AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT

Alok

6:59 PM

@pixel Always? meta = popularity contest; voting on questions = popularity contest. They gel together far better than an incomplete outline does :)

Sterno

(seriously, we need to get that in the FAQ)