The Bridge

tiddy

5:00 PM

Well I won the entire valve catalog and played portal 2 a day early

So

GnomeSlice

A WHOLE DAY

agent86

@GnomeSlice he won one of every valve game, including portal 2... so, I think enduring toki tori was worth it

GnomeSlice

ZOMG

WOWEE, AN ENTIRE DAY!?

:OOOOOOOOOOO

tiddy

You're forgetting the 200$ in games

GnomeSlice

That is a pretty good deal.

tiddy

5:00 PM

for a couple hours

agent86

@tiddy I once played the entirety of kingdoms of amaulr just so I could win kingdoms of amalur. I think your deal was better.

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot Heh...

fbueckert

@agent86 I concur. Good concept, but fairly poor execution. Ooh, I'm fateless! Choose how to build your character...

tiddy

I guess I need more noob friends because I still have those copies of Left4Dead2, Portal2, Portal, etc

fbueckert

There was so much more they could've done with that game.

OrigamiRobot

5:02 PM

@GnomeSlice Welcome to the robot ~~army~~ family.

James

@agent86 I was just hoping some better games would be coming out for it but anything that is released on multiple platforms.. well the Wii is one of the last choices and it has to have a damn good reason for it to raise above the others :)

GnomeSlice

@RonanForman How do I loop something in Audacity?

@OrigamiRobot I was a robot before...

Also, it's not actually a cyberman, it's just my old robot with headphones on.

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice I say it's a Cyberman!

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot Arguing with robots is a bad idea.

They destroy you with logic and lasers.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert You don't have to tell me

@Wipqozn86 "good and well"?

Ronan Forman

5:07 PM

@GnomeSlice Either shift or control click the play button, I forget which.

Wipqozn86

@OrigamiRobot I surely have no idea what you are talking about.

agent86

@James yeah. it's just in desperate need of some more really creative non-nintendo games. sadly, it just devolved into shovelware and OMG MOTION CONTROLS

James

@agent86 Use of the motion controls within a game is required for the most part.. Its a large reason why a lot of games do not extend on to that platform, they simply do not want to spend the effort of figuring out some game mechanic that can be done that way

agent86

I hate hate HATE HATE the sixaxis controls in most of the games I've played

GnomeSlice

I personally dislike almost every motion control in a game, ever.

Peter Grace

5:09 PM

@agent86 I think 1and1 is like $50 a month

GnomeSlice

@agent86 Thisx1000. I think it's meant for those people who tilt their controllers when playing video games, and I don't do that.

agent86

DEAR PS3 GAME DESIGNERS: Do not ask me to hold the controller in some particular orientation, and assume that I can just, on demand, move my hands around into whatever orientation is required to make this one sequence go

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Most of them are so gimmicky. Metroid Prime 3, though, was as close to console FPS as I'll ever get.

@agent86 Never played a Sixaxis game. And from the sounds of it, that's a good thing.

GnomeSlice

MP3 was alright, but I think I still might have preferred controls akin to those in the first two games.

James

@GnomeSlice What I dislike is how easy they are to fake the motion you are supposed to do.. makes the games seem pointless

agent86

5:11 PM

@PeterGrace yeah, I saw that. I'm on the far low-end of that spectrum, like $5/mo or so. I've got some ideas in place, but hoping that I don't "get what I pay for" again - this budget provider is terrible.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Are you familiar with what it is though?

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Very much so. Interesting idea, nothing but bad execution throughout.

agent86

@fbueckert the couple of games I've seen it used, it was for flying controls (which it was far too twitchy for) or for aiming the ultimate weapon (which just ended up with me not using that weapon)

fbueckert

Sort of like the Kinect and PSMove are trying to one-up Nintendo's motion controls. Great ideas, but most of them fall totally flat on execution.

Peter Grace

@agent86 My buddy just had a problem with 1and1; took them all day to fix and they hard rebooted his vps a couple times to "test"

GnomeSlice

5:12 PM

It controls the rotation of your vehicle mid-air in the motorstorm games, but again, I think that's designed for those people who madly tilt their controllers when trying to turn something in a game, and I just don't ever do that.

James

@fbueckert Id say the kinect is much much more fun than a wii

or a PSMove

GnomeSlice

I don't particularly want either a Kinect OR a PS3 Move.

James

@GnomeSlice a kinect at a game-day with friends is awesome

Add in alcohol and its also hilariously awesome :)

fbueckert

@James What games have decent execution, though? The commercials are always so misleading.

GnomeSlice

I don't drink either. :P

@fbueckert The only game that might persuade me to get a Kinect is Child of Eden.

James

5:14 PM

@fbueckert Honestly I suggest sticking with the simple puzzle/party games

Kinect Adventures

Dance Central

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice That one I've heard good things about.

Peter Grace

@agent86 very poor customer experience with that; I wouldn't use them unless I had to.

James

Aim for games where you partake via kinect in short spurts, you arent trying to run a marathon with out moving

Peter Grace

@agent86 coming from a sysadmin, what you're asking for is something that generally costs in the $50-100/mo range to get something reasonably good/available

fbueckert

@James See, that's what the Wii's for. I've had my fill of puzzle/party games. They're just re-treading ground already gone over.

James

5:16 PM

@PeterGrace My cloud hosted VPS from Rackspace is $100 a month... and I do mostly nothing with it, heeh :)

Fluttershy

Dear Steam, why must you download the exact same stuff before I play any game? O.o

James

@fbueckert Not having to hold a controller and wing it around is worth quite a bit in my book :)

Peter Grace

@agent86 I know you're looking for less juice than most of these, but realistically what you're paying for is the infrastructure they use to run that single vm for you.

James

Especially where alcohol is involved :D

@GnomeSlice Well maybe you should :P

GnomeSlice

@James ...Why?

Peter Grace

5:17 PM

@James the VPS we're using for gameon would normally cost $144 a month.

James

@PeterGrace Oi.. I am glad we went with it with you then because to all reports it kicked ass on sunday :)

tiddy

@Flu

ha

@Fluttershy What are you talking about?

James

@tiddy LOL

Fluttershy

@tiddy Every time I run a new game through steam, it has to re-download Direct X.

James

@Fluttershy It actually has to download it?? I always thought it was part of the installation and it just ran it, it scanned the files already installed, did nothing and moved on??

fbueckert

5:18 PM

@James Well, that's where we differ. :) A controller makes no difference. I am, however, anti-microsoft. No 360 for me.

Peter Grace

@James so I heard, I'm really pleased!

James

@fbueckert Ah, fanboi :)

Fluttershy

@James Well... It takes a good 5 minutes for it to do that then.

James

@PeterGrace I do not think they even used the RAMDISK

fbueckert

@James I think the technical term is anti-fanboi. :P I don't like Sony or Nintendo much better.

James

5:19 PM

@PeterGrace Marco is writing up steps for us noobs to make sure we utilize the system to the full potential you have set it up for :)

tiddy

@Fluttershy Actually, the reason the developers make steam download the DX and Net framework stuff is because microsoft puts out a ton of versions

James

@fbueckert One man's fanboi is another mans anti-fanboi.. and the latter takes too much more effort to type ;)

Peter Grace

@James haha, wonderful. Sorry for blowing you off on Saturday; our 10am outage went through 6pm

@James did you still need help copying the stuff off?

Fluttershy

@tiddy Well... =( That sucks.

fbueckert

@James Touché :)

James

5:20 PM

@PeterGrace 100% no worries.. Your point towards SCP worked like a charm :)

tiddy

@Fluttershy and the developers need to be sure you have the right one

James

I completely facepalmed when I realized you had that maintenance window

Peter Grace

@James s'all good -- everything except my blood sugar came out mostly unscathed.

Sterno

This completion time question is going over like gangbusters

James

@PeterGrace Glad to hear, didn't notice too many oddities.. I did get that 'A Game On Event is slated to start 2 hours ago!' message that made me laugh, but aside from that it looked smooth :)

And it just told me I wasnt logged in.. GRR

fredley

5:25 PM

Building a new potential GameOn map

agent86

@PeterGrace yeah, rackspace will set me up with something low end for $10/mo or so, which seems cheap enough but also from somewhere I hope would provide decent support.

fredley

//replace stone glass

agent86

and I realize I'm asking for a lot for not a lot of cash, essentially.

I'm playing russian roulette with server hosting, but I'm aware of the danger and wear a bulletproof helmet :)

F Oak

@fredley I like that. It's cool.

GnomeSlice

@fredley Hard to tell what this is for.

Peter Grace

5:26 PM

@agent86 rackspace is a pretty reputable company, that might be the answer.

fredley

@GnomeSlice It's a mine system

Imagine one of those ants nest things with clear gel

(Except will be replaced with stone again before playing)

agent86

@PeterGrace that was my impression as well. I appreciate your input on it, and I've got more info now than I did before, so thanks :)

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn86 "well and good" would have worked...

fredley

Using a glass cube make it easy to block out the route though

Tim Stone

@agent86 I have (between personal and work) several servers in Rackspace Cloud, have been very pleased so far; no issues or anything.

Sterno

5:31 PM

This completion time question is apparently so bad a new user registered just to tell me it sucks.

5 downvotes and a close vote so far

Lazers

0

Q: How do I know how many coins I've collected?

Additional Kart parts are unlocked by collecting coins. That is all fine and dandy, but how do I know how many coins I've collected across all games? This would make it much easier to know when I've collected all Kart parts, and how far away I am from unlocking an additional part.

mario-kart-7

0

Q: Where can i get pikablue? Or isn't he real?

I head a lot of rumors about pikablue, is he real or not? If hes real, where can i find him? And do i need cheats to get him?

pokemon

Sterno

If anyone in chat actually supported the idea of a catch-all question for this, please help me improve it

There were 20 some upvotes, so I'm assuming someone in here was in favor

murgatroid99

@Sterno I actually thought your question was good. The one answer seems to be answering the wrong question

James

@agent86 I have never had an issue with their support.. Course I have only had to talk to em once :)

Michel

Yoo

back from lunch =D

@agent86 Can you give me an advise? Am I being rude in the last comment of this answer? gaming.stackexchange.com/a/62795/12936

agent86

5:36 PM

@Michel If you think it's rude, or could be construed as rude, I'd take it off. That little voice in your head is your best guide :)

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 My therapist disagrees.

agent86

@OrigamiRobot you're a robot. that voice in your head telling you to kill should not be trusted, unless I'm the voice in your head, in which case, KILL KILL

2

Michel

@agent86 i don't think it's rude, but English is not my "main" language, and I didn't knew if the way I put that was or was not offensive =D

GnomeSlice

@Michel I think you're probably fine. =]

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 ERROR: Target "KILL" not found.

agent86

5:39 PM

@OrigamiRobot kill @STERNO

Ronan Forman

@agent86 Isn't he already dead?

agent86

@RonanForman maybe? who's keeping track? not me, that's for sure.

James

@Michel My only comment is remove that huge ass image... Aside from that he questioned the application of your question and you answered it.. It did not seem any more rude than his 'You have to be kidding' remarks.

OrigamiRobot

Mar 14 at 17:49, by agent86

@OrigamiRobot hmm, I order you to KILL @Sterno.

GnomeSlice

@James The infographic is most of the answer though...

agent86

5:41 PM

@OrigamiRobot :( then... kill... @JAMES

James

@GnomeSlice The info graphic can be left as a link and summed up in what, 4 lines of text?

Michel

@GnomeSlice Thanks =) Is that I get really upset when someone thinks I am not what I am, and assume a position for me. I mean, I take my on position, don't like people trying assume things or put words in my mouth...

GnomeSlice

@Michel Story of my life...

OrigamiRobot

Mar 14 at 17:49, by OrigamiRobot

fbueckert

@Michel The dude's basically whining that he's not willing to put in the effort required.

He wants an easy way to win.

GnomeSlice

5:42 PM

@fbueckert I wouldn't put it quite like that.

He's looking for less-time consuming methods of improving his skills.

agent86

there are things you can say in a conversation what will make people calmer, and things that will make them more angry. There's no winning on the internet, so don't let a desire to have the last word or win an argument raise your blood pressure

GnomeSlice

@agent86 ...erugh. I should stop using the internet then.

badp

ugh, I'm sorry. I opened a topic and my mobile gave me up and let me down a minute later

James

@GnomeSlice I think I recall trying to tel you that once before :P

OrigamiRobot

@James You can't talk. You're dead.

Michel

5:43 PM

@James Done my friend =)

agent86

@badp did it run around and hurt you? :(

badp

nah, it just told me 'battery empty. recharge' and then vanished into the void.

user2334

@agent86 You're wrong, and you're a flat-bellied platypus for saying that. End of story. Period. QED.

James

@OrigamiRobot I reject your reality and substitute my own :)

badp

@MarkTrapp well said, well said, here have a star in meaning of silent and shameful agreement.

agent86

5:44 PM

@MarkTrapp well, I happen to be a marsupial expert - and let me tell you - I am neither flat NOR BELLIED, sir!

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice I would. He got a perfectly good response, and he questions the logistics of the answer. If that's not whining, I don't know what is. Then again, I tend to have a very low opinion of the majority of LoL players. :) So that that for what it's worth.

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 SIR, @James REFUSES TO ACCEPT THE PARAMETERS PASSED BY COMMAND: KILL

agent86

@OrigamiRobot upgrade command to murder - authorization alpha gamma kappa 4-7-2

user2334

@Sterno That close vote is from me. It's way too broad, and I'm against creating monolithic, general versions of problematic classes of questions on principle. Stack Exchange works when the asker is specific so they can get a targeted answer. Overly broad questions do nothing other than punt the problem down the road so we don't have to appear rude when we unceremoniously close an ostensibly popular yet nevertheless bad type of question.

Ronan Forman

@agent86 Wakka wakka!

GnomeSlice

5:48 PM

Would anyone like a free Steam key for Defense Grid: Awakening?

James

@agent86 He can only kill when he has a red background, since I am red-green colorblind I defy his ability to touch me :D

Sterno

@MarkTrapp I understand. It's also the specific problem I was trying to avoid when asking this

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 COMPILING CODE. ESTIMATED TIME OF MURDER:87 HOURS

Sterno

It seems the answer truly is "Just try it, and see if the community closes it or not"

James

@OrigamiRobot Oi, Ill die of old age before then :P

OrigamiRobot

5:49 PM

@James This is an acceptable result.

Sterno

Or, possibly, see if the community closes it, then reopens it, then recloses it, then opens it again, etc until everyone is out of votes

fbueckert

@Sterno Somehow, I think you're trying to prove a point with this question.

Sterno

@fbueckert I'm really not. I think that's an accidental byproduct

James

@OrigamiRobot I dub the Origami Weeping Robotic Angel

I was fairly impressed when I found out the weeping angels were actually portrayed by actresses and not actual statues :D

user2334

@Sterno I'm pretty sure I've told you before, but consensus != majority vote. If you strongly believe something should change, it's best to lead by example. But not everything needs to have a concrete policy here: completion time questions do not threaten to overwhelm the site like game-rec and ITG did. I don't see what's wrong with taking them on a case by case basis: the good ones stay, the bad ones don't

GnomeSlice

5:52 PM

@James Really? That's neat.

OrigamiRobot

ACCESS DENIED: USER @James

James

@GnomeSlice Aye :)

Sterno

@MarkTrapp Because it isn't happening. They all stay.

GnomeSlice

Lol....

Someone I barely know just sent me some messages over facebook chat:

Accounƭ Securìƭy
Facebook has been detected
suspicious activity on your Facebook
account and now under Facebook investigation as a security violation
action. This problem issue can lead
your facebook account from being
suspended or disabled permanently.

confirm-facebook.com/

Facebook © 2012. All Rights Reserved

please complete all these instructions and u have 48 hours to complete all or you will got alot of problems about your account like your account disabled thank you.

Facebook © 2012. All Rights Reserved

...I'm pretty sure Facebook was copyrighted before 2012.

The link is hilarious too, it has a facebook-looking form that asks for email, password, email password, among other things.

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice Seems legit.

GnomeSlice

5:55 PM

I love the second message

> please complete all these instructions and u have 48 hours to complete all or you will got alot of problems about your account like your account disabled thank you.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Leetspeak is SO professional.

Awesome.

GnomeSlice

It's clearly a scam, I just think it's hilarious.

Sterno

@MarkTrapp I'm not even sure what differentiates a "good" completion time question from a "bad" completion time question. The problem usually isn't the question. It's the answers of "It took me x hours"

James

| This problem issue can lead your facebook account from being suspended or disabled permanently.

That sold me on it, This problem issue is going to lead my account from being suspended or disabled permanently :)

Michel

Did you guys saw this: us.battle.net/en/int?r=d3

GnomeSlice

5:56 PM

@James Yeah, scary stuff.

There's an image of the 'confirm-facebook.com' page.

Michel

@GnomeSlice One more reason to not use facebook =P (Yes i don't like it)

Fabian

@Sterno Make it a policy to just delete those answers that don't elaborate, require answers to provide more information.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice They update it every year. It actually says that at the bottom of Facebook.

GnomeSlice

The funny thing is that it was sent via chat messages from someone I went to highschool with that I don't think I've ever spoken to.

user2334

@Sterno Bad answers should be down-voted: awful answers that make the site look bad should be deleted.

Sterno

5:57 PM

@Fabian I've been given to understand that answers like that don't get deleted, just downvoted

James

@Michel Why does it say follow the barbarian and then lead me to a monk? :)

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo Oh, so they do.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice You might want to alert them that their account got hacked.

Sterno

And the fact still remains that these questions all pretty much boil down to the same answer.

Michel

@James Take a look in the bottom (the rounded cells)

GnomeSlice

5:58 PM

LOL.

I submitted a blank form, and look what it brought me to:

James

@Michel Just saying, landing page fail :)

GnomeSlice

Are they seriously thinking anyone will fall for this?

@Ullallulloo I have already.

Sterno

From my perspective as a software developer, it's like "Why keep copy and pasting this method code over and over again, when I can just make my method a little more generic and call it from anywhere?"

Fabian

@Sterno Usually yes, but e.g. Skeptics deletes answers after a while if they don't cite their claims, and I think other sites have enforced similar rules on subjective questions. It's not an ideal solution, and it doesn't scale if there are a lot of those questions.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Sadly, there probably will be some people that fall for it.

GnomeSlice

6:01 PM

Oh, undoubtedly.

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice Quick! Fill it in! There's a problem issue that your money will fix.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno Is "How long will it take me to write fizzbuzz in [language]?" a good question?

GnomeSlice

I entered a bunch of fake information into that form and submitted it, and it just goes to a blank page, nothing else happens. Once you've given them what they want, they don't even try to make it look legit.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot I don't think that's a fair comparison, but we already had this out in meta anyway. If people had said, "yeah, close these as off-topic" I would not be hesitating to cast my close vote for it.

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice What were you expecting?

OrigamiRobot

6:03 PM

@GnomeSlice You should contact them to complain.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice It's things like this that make great cases for vigilantism. I suspect spamming would become a lost art if spammers suddenly turned up spattered all over their own walls.

GnomeSlice

@RonanForman I dunno.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno Why isn't it fair?

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert I'm not sure I understood that at all.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Because it's not something that developers usually care about. Gamers do care about game lengths

Ullallulloo

6:04 PM

@OrigamiRobot Answer

Sterno

It's a rare gamer who, when looking at a game, doesn't ask "How long is it?"

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Shotguns. Spammers meet business end.

OrigamiRobot

Developers don't ever think about how long it will take to write code?

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Oh, hah, now I understand.

OrigamiRobot

It's useful in deciding which language to use.

GnomeSlice

6:06 PM

Scamming and spamming are different things.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Developers are rarely writing code that's already been written and thus can gather estimates for

Yes, a huge part of our job is estimating how long something will take

But when I'm writing Enterprise software, I can't ask "Gee, how long did it take YOU guys to write <system x> for <company y>"?

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Scammers, spammers, they have the same mindset. How to get as much as they can from others with the least amount of effort.

Blem

evning people

Sterno

And in the cases for something like FizzBuzz, or heck, Hello World, how long it takes is not usually an actual concern

OrigamiRobot

Fine use something more generic in place of FizzBuzz

Sterno

6:09 PM

@OrigamiRobot Why? I don't really feel like fighting your straw man :P

OrigamiRobot

How is trying to construct a reasonable analogue a straw man?

tiddy

I think you're getting hung up on the reasonable analogue part

wakka wakka wakka

user2334

"What steps I could do to estimate how long it'll complete a project?" is a real thing and even has been asked many times on Programmers

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Isn't that pretty much how a straw man works?

user2334

And heck arguably the entire focus of Project Management.SE

OrigamiRobot

6:15 PM

@Sterno I'm not introducing an unrelated argument without addressing the original.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Okay, let's even assume you're right. These questions are awful and should be closed off-topic. Like I said, if meta had dictated that, I'd be right in line to vote to close with you. But it's not what happened, and I'm not the person to argue with about it!

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno I'm not saying you did anything wrong.

And I didn't vote to close it.

user2334

@Sterno Sure you are: you're a member of the community like everyone else. You have positions and thoughts and views about these things. I think you go wrong when you reduce yourself to just following whatever someone else decides

Fluttershy

My legend-of-grimrock skull question is the top google result for "legend of grimrock skulls"... But that could possibly be my google knowing that Gaming.SE is my homepage. <.<

GnomeSlice

Wow, I'm actually really excited for the full release of Metagolf now.

This is great.

Sterno

6:18 PM

@MarkTrapp Originally I was fully on @OrigamiRobot's side. I liked the idea of closing them off-topic. I thought about it some more. I think they're a question a lot of people have. But I think they mostly just have one answer. The questions aren't the problem, the answers are. Thus me getting the itch to actually implement the solution I'd proposed.

Ian Pugsley

@Fluttershy not just you

Fluttershy

@GnomeSlice I don't think there's ever been an indie game you weren't excited about.

Sterno

Point being, I don't care enough about it to argue that my position is absolutely right and @OrigamiRobot's absolutely wrong. Because I don't think it is.

GnomeSlice

@Fluttershy That's not true at all...

But I finally got around to playing the Beta I picked up a while ago, and it's great.

Sterno

But both were up there, one won the vote, and I'm cool with attemping to move forward on it

Fluttershy

6:18 PM

@IanPugsley Yayy!

@GnomeSlice ^

tiddy

How many votes in meta represents a majority of users?

GnomeSlice

@Fluttershy ?

Sterno

@tiddy Roll a d100. That number.

GnomeSlice

@tiddy More than the opposite?

This game has pretty sweet music too.

Fluttershy

@GnomeSlice I was saying "yayy" in response to your saying it's great.

GnomeSlice

6:20 PM

Oh.

Sterno

If the end result of this is that the general question gets closed, I'm cool with that. But it also will indicate to me that meta discussions are fairly pointless. :P

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno I disagree that the questions aren't the problem. We already know that just because lots of people ask it doesn't mean it's a good question. None of that is what I am trying to say here. I was just trying to put the question in a different perspective.

GnomeSlice

I thought the listed 'completed game price' of $12.34 seemed a bit steep, but after playing the beta, I see it. There's already been a lot of work put into this. The graphics, music, and gameplay, are all excellent.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot What about the question makes it bad to you? for me, it's always been the quality of answers it attracts.

I mean, they have no single definitive answer where you can say "It'll take exactly 23 hours and 47 minutes", but I don't think the lack of precision makes them close-worthy

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno There is no authoritative answer.

GnomeSlice

6:21 PM

It's like sidescrolling minigolf/platformer plus real platformer.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot That's probably where we disagree then. I think an average time of 100-200 players is fairly authoritative. Your results may vary, but you can have a pretty good expectation

GnomeSlice

Needs better documentation though.

tiddy

@Sterno What kind of players upload their data to a how long would it take site

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno That variation is too great in my opinion.

tiddy

Average gamers?

Sterno

6:23 PM

@OrigamiRobot That's not a big issue for me. The bigger issue for me is if the site goes away, suddenly we have no good way of answering the question.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno If someone says a game will take 10-15 hours and it take me 20 hours, what good was that answer?

I'm not trying to dredge up this discussion

I was just trying to give it a different light

tiddy

@OrigamiRobot Apparently it was good enough to get you to play the game

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot If Rotten Tomatoes gives a movie 99%, but I thought it sucks, what good did the review do me?

OrigamiRobot

@tiddy What does that even mean?

tiddy

I would assume asking a question like that would be for the reason of determining if you want to play it

OrigamiRobot

6:27 PM

@Sterno Are you using the comparison of these questions and reviews as an example of them being good for the site?

GnomeSlice

Also... the English translation (I hope it's a translation) could be a bit better.

OrigamiRobot

@tiddy So the incorrect (for me) estimate means what? I should downvote that answer because it was wrong.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot I'm saying that you know going in that despite the fact that you're looking at an average, your results my vary. That's usually common knowledge. it doesn't necessarily mean it's an unanswerable question. The answer's just got some wiggle room

tiddy

@OrigamiRobot sure

Sterno

I mean, any subjective question is going to be like this

"How can I spec my fighter so that I'm better at DPS?"

Maybe there's a great answer, but it doesn't fit your playstyle. Too many buttons you have to remember to press!

user2334

6:31 PM

3

A: How long does the Final Fantasy XI main story take to complete?

The answer is it depends. If you have max-leveled well-geared friends to power level and run you through all the missions then I'd say it could probably be done in about 100-200 hours if everyone knows exactly what to do. I don't believe there's level requirements for the missions (Need to get ...

user2334

I don't want to outright ban questions or dupe them to a question that says "use howlongtobeat.com noob" when they can produce answers like that --^

Sterno

@MarkTrapp That is a fair point.

tiddy

The responsibility is on the user who asks

GnomeSlice

►

I want this. A lot.

Why does IndieRoyale always think I'm sharing my bundle with more than just me.

tiddy

Just introduce "Skill Level Required" for those answers

OrigamiRobot

6:37 PM

@MarkTrapp My foremost point was that closing them as dupes of an umbrella question is bad practice. They should all be allowed to remain open or all be closed.

Lazers

0

Q: How to stop playing with a player without being forced to quit and restart?

I don't know what's happening with Draw Something but apparently 30/50% of players prefer not play the game and write directly the word I have to guess. I don't like it so I prefer to Pass and abandon the game with that player, but it seems not possible to do, at least on Android, after you have...

draw-something

Sterno

Part of what really bugged me was this question:

3

Q: How long is Mass Effect 3 on normal difficulty?

How many hours does it typically take to play through the single-player campaign of Mass Effect 3 from start to finish on the default/normal difficulty level? How many hours does completing all the side quests tack on to that?

mass-effect-3 completion-time

user2334

@OrigamiRobot I agree with that up to a point: bad, no good completion time questions that don't ask something specific should be closed, but that doesn't mean if someone asks a specific, interesting question that attracts good answers (like the FF11 one) it should be closed as well. Completion time questions can attract good answers that aren't merely links to howlongtobeat.com

Sterno

I got in there right away with not only the HowLongToBeat answer, but describing why someone just posting their own time was not useful

It even had the "we're looking for more than one line answers" notice thrown on it

and it still got a bunch of "It took me x hours!" answers

It sounds like the answer is that I should probably just suck it up

:)

@MarkTrapp What makes the FF question (not the answer) better than any other completion time question?

user2334

@Sterno On Programmers, the post notice was a warning that we'd start deleting one-line answers, which we subsequently did. I think Gaming could use a similar policy.

Sterno

6:42 PM

@MarkTrapp That would be awesome. But I've seen quite a bit of discussion here that mods don't want to delete bad answers.

Only non-answers

StrixVaria

If an answer is objectively bad, it shouldn't stick around.

Sterno

@StrixVaria Why? Isn't that what downvotes are for?

user2334

Yeah, slavishly holding onto it must be a non-answer is not good for the site and isn't how the rest of the network works

Sterno

-7

Q: should moderators delete bad answers?

I always had impression, that the idea of StackExchange was to let users decide which answers are good, which are bad and express it through up or down votes. But on one of SE sites moderators believe it's their role and their moderation policy is "we delete bad answers". Their definition of "bad...

discussion moderation deleted-answers superuser

StrixVaria

@Sterno Because it's not making the Internet a better place, which is the main goal here.

Downvoting is what I do for now because we're not severe enough.

Sterno

6:44 PM

@StrixVaria I actually agree with you. I just think there needs to be a good argument for it, since the popularly expressed opinion by mods here is that they don't want to delete answers

And it's not like the rest of us can do it

StrixVaria

I think moderator passivity is the biggest issue facing Gaming.SE.

Sterno

I can understand their view. We'd be bitching if they were dictators, too

:)

Tim Stone

@Sterno Well, you can if you have 20k+ reps and the answer has score -1 or less.

Sterno

ooooh

New goal!

StrixVaria

1827 rep to go!

user2334

6:48 PM

9

A: How aggressively should we maintain and improve very popular questions?

I think there are a general set of guidelines for question maintenance that should apply to any extremely popular question: There should be multiple "correct" answers; all of them deserve editing and improvement. Favoring only the accepted answer in editing over all the other answers is deeply...

user2334

See point 4

Sterno

Here's the sequence of events:
1. Get annoyed by all the bad completion time answers.
2. Write a meta about it.
3. Seemingly get quite a lot of support.
4. Ask whether or not I should take action.
5. Seemingly get the answer "yeah, sounds like you have a majority, go for it".
6. Go for it.
7. Fail.
8. Not even sure I want it anymore. :)

agent86

@StrixVaria it's based on an interpretation of the theory of moderation - that which the community can do, the community should do, and moderators are exception handlers, called when something needs immediate attention or isn't able to be handled by the community

StrixVaria

@agent86 Is it OK if I think that theory is stupid?

Sterno

End result: Things will remain the same

tombull89

6:51 PM

If I've got a question regarding a game mod (in this case, Finite Water for Minecraft) is that OK here?

Sterno

I think I'm okay with that too!

Live and learn

tombull89

FAQ says Game-specific hardware and utilities which it could be.

agent86

@StrixVaria you can disagree all you want. I just don't want people saying "you're too passive" when that's what I've been explicitly told to do

user2334

@agent86 The community can't delete bad, one line answers that are broken windows on otherwise good questions. There are only 10 20k users, 4 of which are moderators who won't act.

3

StrixVaria

@agent86 If it makes you feel better, I think you're the least passive of the mods we have :P

agent86

6:53 PM

@tombull89 Usually game mod questions are on-topic. Not development of mods, or "what's the best mod" questions, mind you, but you can generally ask questions about a game mod

user2334

@tombull89 What's the gist of the question?

OrigamiRobot

@MarkTrapp Considering them off-topic is my personal feeling and that is what i suggested as a solution. Regardless of their off/on topic-ness, I think umbrella questions are not a good way to solve anything.

tombull89

@agent86 okay, thanks.

tiddy

I really wasn't aware of any serious issues on this site

OrigamiRobot

@tombull89 Is that the one with pumps and stuff as well, or was that a separate mod?

tombull89

6:54 PM

@MarkTrapp well, I've downloaded and installed it, got the pipes and pumps working okay. I'm trying to work out what body of water is considered "finite" and can be emptied.

tiddy

And i'm using serious very very lightly

tombull89

@OrigamiRobot That's the one, yeah.

Basically, I've dammed up a river along two parts and want to pump out the water in the middle section.

user2334

@tiddy There aren't major problems: the biggest one is how to absorb the increasing influx of users who are used to things like GameFAQs and Yahoo! Answers and don't understand or care to understand how SE is different

user2334

Which is where trying to deal with one line crap answers comes from

OrigamiRobot

@tombull89 I'm interested in it, but I always forget about it when I get the opportunity to play with it.

agent86

6:56 PM

@MarkTrapp I don't really think we have a serious problem with stuff that needs deleting due to poor quality but isn't being deleted. Part of the system is voting, where downvoted stuff gets pushed to the bottom of a question and is low-contrast to denote the community's lack of support for the answer.

user2334

@tombull89 Oh, yeah, that's fine. People have asked about things like the mechanics Equivalent Exchange before

tombull89

@OrigamiRobot When I bought (what was then indev) I thought that was what the water was going to be like. I've got bored with vanilla MC so I thought I'd take a look at the FiniteWater mod.

user2334

@agent86 But they're still there. If you don't understand what voting is or how Stack Exchange works (i.e., the majority of people coming to Gaming), the answers simply being there are an invitation to post more stuff like it.

user2334

They're broken windows: the people posting them don't understand that they're bad, much less why they're bad, because they're all over the place on Gaming.

tombull89

Thanks for the confirmation, anyway.

agent86

6:59 PM

you make it sound like every question's got a -10 hurr duurrrr answer on it that we just can't seem to clean out, and god why don't the mods just read every question and do something about it already?!?!?

when I'd say we've got a few tags that are kinda odd, (LoL comes to mind) and a few questions that should be protected or cleaned up

and if people need to organize to take care of that, great! and if there's a severe case, then let's get on that!

user2334

@agent86 This is not the exception to rule

agent86

but people are taking action

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