The Bridge

I use Windows because I have games that don't run on Linux, and then I just don't use Linux because I don't feel like rebooting

djsmiley2k

i was like that for a long time

I use Windows because I have games and software that don't run on Linux and I don't want alternatives

djsmiley2k

then i started playing df

and stopped playing anything else ;D

Gangsta's Paradise - Vintage 1920's Al Capone Style Coolio Cover ft. Robyn Adele Anderson

11:05 PM

@djsmiley2k df?

►

@Chippies postmodern jukebox ftw

@MattGiltaji it is indeed

Unionhawk

@GnomeSlice That's numberwang?

SaintWacko

11:22 PM

@Chippies dwarf fortress

Only the best game ever

@djsmiley2k Do you use the Masterwork mod?

@SaintWacko ah, not sure why that didn't come to my mind when trying to figure out what the abbreviation was for

@SaintWacko Sounds like you're in the same boat as Tek Syndicate.

@SaintWacko That one has quite the learning curve.

I see df and think the df command on Linux - disk usage command

Speaking of which, goodness. I've already used 3x the capacity of my laptop's hard drive. Hallelujah for 1TB HDDs

301GB of Video footage and games.

@Chippies That's the biggest thing hurting Linux IMO.

@RPiAwesomeness it only makes sense, because an OS without software isn't good for much

in the end it all boils down to if the OS can run the software of your choice

@Chippies Seriously, if Adobe ported their code to Linux, Linux usage would jump by a fair bit

@RPiAwesomeness I imagine it would be quite a lot of work to port all their code to Linux though

11:30 PM

@RPiAwesomeness but it would still be adobe's code...

But yes. That is the biggest flaw in Linux, is that it lacks the software that many people use.

@MattGiltaji Yes, so?

Unionhawk

A lot of people don't use proprietary software as a matter of principle. Or something like that.

@RPiAwesomeness It's a bit of an chicken/egg problem. Nobody uses Linux because nothing is there, and nobody develops for Linux because there's no userbase for it.

@Unionhawk for personal use? sure, but a lot of people need proprietary software for work and business reasons

Yes. But what I'm saying is that if Adobe ported their code, it would make it a lot easier for more people to switch to Linux.

11:31 PM

@Unionhawk On the other hand, if you're trying to get people who don't care about the concept of "free software" to use Linux, it doesn't really matter if your software is free

Personally, I doubt I'll switch to Linux in the foreseeable future

@Chippies From my, admittedly limited, experience with software compilation and stuff, it's actually easier to make software for Linux because so many of the libraries are standardized and come with the OS. Or, they're easily installable with the package manager.

@RPiAwesomeness flash, pdfs, and similar nastiness

at least not willingly

@MattGiltaji This is true. But, again, it's Adobe.

Unionhawk

11:32 PM

I dunno. All I know is the message that "we can install flash, but it's not open source are you okay with that" upon installing ubuntu is extremely funny to me

@RPiAwesomeness I'd imagine that's only true at a level you're talking of, not at Adobe's level

@Unionhawk Some people are a bit extreme.

PDF is/was originally a open format. Adobe just kinda took over the market with Reader/Acrobat.

@Chippies That is true that it is easier for small time devs to port code, but just go over to the Ask Ubuntu chat and ask @NathanOsman what his experiences are in cross-platform software. He's been working on a piece of software called NitroShare that's Linux/Windows/Mac (and really useful).

I'm not really qualified to speak too much on this point, since I have done almost no cross-platform code :P

@RPiAwesomeness it's also probably easier to port something that's originally coded with cross platform in mind

@RPiAwesomeness I gather from my team that it's actually quite a pain to port software (we're trying to go the other way)

@Chippies ...somewhat, yes, it would be.

11:35 PM

in some cases porting code is as simple as compiling it for a different platform

in most cases, you'd probably have to change a ton of code

@Chippies that would be really rare

@murgatroid99 Fair enough then. I stand corrected. Like I said, I only have minor experience in this area. I'm just saying what I've seen.

@MattGiltaji I said "some cases" :P

@Chippies Assuming that all of the Windows libraries are the same as the relevant Linux libraries (which is universally false)

@Chippies Right, as long as you don't use any libraries

@murgatroid99 or use crossplatform libraries

11:37 PM

@Chippies I think at the low level, that isn't really a thing

@murgatroid99 or have any hardcoded system paths, or path separators...

Linux uses posix. Windows doesn't

@murgatroid99 by crossplatform libraries I meant where a library exists for multiple OS's

anyways, I said "some cases" and that's what I'm sticking with ;)

@Chippies Sure, you can let somebody else do the compatibility work, but somebody has to do it, and there won't be such a library for everything

Our team had to write compatibility libraries for stuff as simple as threading and memory allocation

@murgatroid99 I was really just trying to show contrast :P

11:39 PM

@murgatroid99 Another point in Linux's favor - it's far easier to write code for since you should have the same libraries available on every distro.

Everlasting Summer is a depressing game

the main character is basically me

in some cases it's simple as that, in most cases it's quite complicated

@murgatroid99 yep, threading is always really simple

aka totaly nolifer

@RPiAwesomeness whereas there's only like... couple of windows versions

11:40 PM

@RPiAwesomeness If you're programming to Windows, you have the Windows libraries

@RPiAwesomeness If you're programming to Linux, you have to decide if you want to deal with FreeBSD and CentOS and Gentoo

and you can always have the .dll files supplied with the software

assuming you're not using something like flash or whatever

@murgatroid99 .NET is pretty cool for basically all versions of Windows. As long as the client computer has them installed, anyways.

@Frank windows 8 comes with .net preinstalled

which is cool

LessPop_MoreFizz

HI CHAT

@Frank That's actually an interesting case. Now that .NET is open source, it might actually become one of the best ways to do cross platform code

11:42 PM

@Chippies Which one?

lol. We're having this super technical conversation about software standards, cross-platform libraries, and coding and @GnomeSlice comes along talking about a game...the whole point of this room.

@Frank I believe all of them (2.x, 3.x, 4.x?)

Boy. I am such a trouble causer.

I could be wrong though

LessPop_MoreFizz

@spugsley @AshleyNunn @anyone else who is liking Kimmy Schmidt: Ellie Kemper is on The Best Show tonight! WOOOOOOOO.

user15026

11:42 PM

@OrigamiRobot I know you eat KD - you might want to check your boxes, if they are actually real KD because they might have metal pieces in

.NET is very useful.

@Chippies Oh, that would come in handy.

@RPiAwesomeness this room is not for talking about games

I initially played it just because I wanted to see boobies but the game has impacted me quite a lot.

Harrumph.

lol

Origami Robot

11:43 PM

@AshleyNunn oh my

@AshleyNunn o_O

That would hurt.

Q: Which operating systems come with .net?

18

I'm trying to evaluate .net as an implementation platform for my next software project. Which operating system releases come with a .net runtime pre-installed? And which come with it as an add on (I'm thinking mono here)?

user15026

For once, something trending on FB was useful, who would've thought

@GnomeSlice which game is this? i'm asking for a friend >.>

not sure if it includes the previous versions or not, but it does come with 4.x

11:44 PM

@MattGiltaji everlastingsummer.su/en

it's free on steam

@MattGiltaji Oh. Right. :)

plus there's no nudity unless you download a patch to uncensor it

Even with it, there's like one nude scene per route.

@Chippies Mono isn't really that great for Linux. Maybe having .NET open will make it better.

I feel like a huge loser now because the guy in the game is exactly me

At least, that's what I've heard.

I've never really encountered it :P

11:45 PM

@RPiAwesomeness I don't know much about Linux whatsoever, because I have literally zero reason to use it, besides practicing using it in case some day it might come in handy

@Chippies That's fine. Never said everyone has to use Linux.

I admit it, Linux isn't at the usability level of OS X or Windows. But that's changing.

@GnomeSlice oh, is this like those japanese choose your own adventure "games" with a few pictures?

yes

@RPiAwesomeness Oh yeah, I know that :) Just saying that I am quite ignorant on things about linux :P

it's a visual novel

except russian, not japanese

11:47 PM

Plus, it's a great learning experience for learning how a computer actually works.

last I used linux was couple of years ago, because I needed to learn it for school

@GnomeSlice ah, so that's what it's called

It has improved quite a bit within the last few years.

@RPiAwesomeness my biggest issue with Linux has always been "Okay, I booted into it. Now what do I do?"

and then I just stare at the screen for a couple minutes before booting back into windows

i built a linux from scratch machine years ago to learn the fundamentals... since then i have forgotten everything other than how long it takes to compile your own kernel

11:49 PM

@Chippies What do you mean? You use it like any other OS.

@MattGiltaji Impressive. I've yet to attempt that.

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness Yes, but you need to know a lot more to do anything

@AshleyNunn ...like what?

user15026

Windows I can just bump about and click things

@RPiAwesomeness most of the software I use on a daily basis is for windows only, so I'd have to find alternatives and I don't want to do that.

user15026

Most Linux distros require you to have half an idea of what you are doing

11:50 PM

If you install Ubuntu, you can normally just open up Firefox right after you boot

and if I'm just browsing web, I feel like it's a waste of a linux partition

@AshleyNunn Again, what sort of things are you talking about?

if I had no access to windows and linux was my only option, everything would change, of course

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness Installing programs, for example

@AshleyNunn it's the worst!

11:51 PM

@AshleyNunn apt-get install

unless it's available through apt-get

@AshleyNunn Oh yeah, that can be a pain. It's gotten better recently though, especially on Ubuntu

but not everything is

@AshleyNunn That's easy. Just download the .deb file and install it via Synaptic or the Ubunty software center. Done.

and those that aren't is a pain

user15026

11:51 PM

@MattGiltaji yeah, you say that like it is easy

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness snorts oh no

user15026

it is not that easy all of the time

If you're on a Debian-based distro, yes.

Newer versions of Ubuntu have a "software center" where you can search for and install programs

@AshleyNunn most of it is actually that easy

user15026

11:52 PM

I've used both Ubuntu and OpenSUZE and it doesn't always go that way

Okay. No. Not all of the time.

last I tried to install something on linux that wasn't available through apt-get I ended up not installing it

But for the majority of software it works.

user15026

@MattGiltaji Most. But I seem to run into the things that aren't with startling regularity to the point where a friend who swears by Linux in many flavours told me to stop touching it

it had makefile and whatnot

it had instructions with it

but I don't think the instructions were for my version of ubuntu

11:53 PM

@Chippies if you have to run make, it's not user friendly

it was horrible

@Chippies o.O Sounds like you downloaded source code not a packaged piece of software.

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness which is SO EASY to screw up

@murgatroid99 the problem is that I managed to do that, but it was throwing errors of some sorts

and it wouldn't install

user15026

I managed to somehow break a version of Ubuntu in , and I quote "ways only a dev should have been able to because what did you even touch"

11:54 PM

anyways, I'm sure it's not as convoluted nowadays

i built an rpm once to patch an abandoned utility software. was complicated as hell, but i imagine it gets easier if you are doing it all the time

@Chippies usually the instructions for installing from source are ./configure; make; sudo make install

[Glitch Hop] Qubit - Me like Foxtrot (Original Mix)

►

old but gold

@Rapitor

@murgatroid99 that sounds about right

@AshleyNunn Simple solution - don't download source code. If you've got software that you have to have, you just install the required libraries and then run ./configure; make; sudo make install

11:54 PM

I think it was missing libraries or something though

@murgatroid99 provided there are no compile flags to deal with

don't remember specifics, it was a long while ago

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness or you know, stick to something I haven't managed to break completely :)

@MattGiltaji Oh, yeah, that's like the simple case on an ideal system

Which, unless you're installing some really strange software that requires the most out of the way libraries, should all be installable via apt-get

user15026

11:55 PM

I mean you are all welcome to use whatever OS you love but Linux and I are not really friends

@RPiAwesomeness Tried that. I couldn't install the required libraries.

I guess the only reason I actually want to use Linux is because it has a lot of nice programming tools

@AshleyNunn That's fine. If you want to use Windows, go ahead. I never said anyone had to use Linux.

@AshleyNunn Nope. It's pretty dense, compared to Windows.

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness I know you didn't

11:56 PM

I can say with confidence that I am pretty experienced with windows and it would take a lot to make me switch to Linux

I hope no-one gets upset about this, I didn't want to offend anyone or cause problems.

user15026

I am just saying it doesn't work for me, you are saying it does for you (and being kinda insistent that anyone should be able to use it, which I disagree with) and that is all :)

@RPiAwesomeness pretty sure no one is getting upset :P

Good :)

user15026

@Chippies Dude, I am poking at all of Windows scary bits with my A+ studying and I am still happy with it XD

11:57 PM

@AshleyNunn YOU MUST USE LINUX! I AM VERY UPSET NOW

MBraedley

I failed to adult tonight. I played Cities: Skylines instead of eating a proper meal and doing laundry.

@MBraedley winning

@MBraedley :D Lucky duck.

user15026

@MattGiltaji hits with a wet fish

@AshleyNunn Ooh, A+. I don't even have that.

11:57 PM

@Chippies Another point which makes it hard for people to switch to Linux is that exactly. People are used to using Windows and it does require some work to get used to a new OS.

@AshleyNunn Hah, you're probably even more experienced with Windows than I can say about me now that you're doing your fancy studies :P

user15026

@Frank It's my current project! I am blogging about it!

@AshleyNunn You has blog? I can has link?

user15026

@Chippies giggles Well, right now I am stuck in the chapter on printers, I wouldn't wish that on anyone

user15026

@RPiAwesomeness abortretryflail.blogspot.com

user15026

11:58 PM

Current entry isn't computer-y, though, it's about my brain surgery

@RPiAwesomeness Also, Linux doesn't just have to work. It actually has to be better than Windows in some way for people to take the time to switch

Oh dear gosh. Printers.

@AshleyNunn Sounds like fun! I'm pretty sure I could get it, but I never got around to it. So good for you!

@RPiAwesomeness the big thing though is that even if I didn't mind learning a new OS, there's still software I would have to learn to do exactly the same things I'm already doing quite comfortably on Windows

And in most cases, if Linux is already better than Windows for someones use case, they probably already use Linux

11:59 PM

@AshleyNunn still sounds computery :p

user15026

@Frank It gives me something to do, I enjoy it, and when I am done, it gives me another skill I can yell about

user15026

@MattGiltaji Nope, just valves and tubes!