What the hell, Premiere!

@StrixVaria Hm. I'd be in support of something where demo solves the strength puzzles once then we have to actually survive the cave in anarchy, guess that's not possible though

@BenBrocka Helix Fossil gets a Mega Evolution?

I have never played a Pokemon game

Well that's not entirely true, I beat Pokemon Snap!

...

Groupees presents the Clash of the Worlds Bundle: Scandinavia

TJD and Unmechanical, for those who don't have them.

The rest is music except Slip, which looks okay.

FUCK YEAH! INTERNET HIGH FIVE EVERYONE!

@Wipqozn <raises foot>

@Wipqozn <raises CENSORED >

you guys are the worst at high fives

@Wipqozn <raises concerns>

You guys are the worst.

@OrigamiRobot Are you going to be playing D3 tonight?

I'm still waffling back and forth about whether to try to focus on my Wizard or Monk.

@StrixVaria YES

Why are we internet high fiving?

@OrigamiRobot GOOD I WILL SEE YOU ONLINE

Arg, so many emails! I'm eating lunch, dammit!

@StrixVaria I JUST WANT TO SEE WHAT THE NEW MONK SET/LEGENDARIES DO :(

I want to find a post-balance-changes build that actually has good synergy and isn't just a bunch of things I can do.

For any class.

@StrixVaria I ENDED UP GOING BACK TO MY COMBINATION STRIKE BUILD

@OrigamiRobot I'm trying really hard not to fall back on old builds.

I HAVE TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO IT NOW SINCE ONE OF MY BONUSES LASTS 3 SECONDS NOW INSTEAD OF 30

I want to find something new and fun.

@StrixVaria CONSIDERING MY OLD BUILD WAS ONE I CAME UP WITH ON MY OWN AND NOT THE COOKIE CUTTER FOT THUNDERCLAP BUILD, I'M FINE STICKING WITH IT

@StrixVaria I just got my ass handed to me by Rakanoth 5 times in a row. Every time I get him to like 10% health he starts whomping me

@badp These guys are hilarious.

Why's everyone playing Diablo 3 again? Did Banished already get boring?

@Fluttershy I just beat the final star cup in Tournament mode in Mario Tennis Open. It was a close match. I was losing quite bad. Opponent had 3 sets and I had 0. I managed to make huge come back and win though

@Fluttershy New patch

Did it make the game less awful?

@Fluttershy I won't be playing D3 again until my brothers, one of my cousins, and I finish BL2. By then, the expansion should be out.

@Fluttershy None of the changes have addressed the problems I had, which was that leveling up seemed pointless.

I like having attribute points to spend.

@Wipqozn I see. Did they ever get rid of online-only?

@Fluttershy I don't believe so.

@Wipqozn but spending attribute points was pointless in D2. There was only one way to properly spend them, otherwise you'd pretty much break your build.

@MBraedley But I want to option to break my build :(

That's why they got rid of that part of levelling.

@MBraedley So instead of fixing it they just got rid of it? That's just lazy.

Also, it's fun discovering what works and what doesn't, plus it gives you something to do when leveling.

@MBraedley This

@Wipqozn I think they felt that there was no reasonable way to fix it.

Your points wouldn't make a huge difference until the higher difficult levels anyways. Also, breaking your build could be addressed by just letting your reset points.

@Wipqozn Also, you do have points to spend now.

@OrigamiRobot Oh?

Paragon level points

@Wipqozn Remember the Banished article about removing features that were just annoying? That's what Attributes were in D2.

Does it even matter (for loot) which Act you play in anymore?

@Wipqozn Yes, I agree that would have been a way to mitigate spending points in a build breaking manner, but it still results in a similar problem that Blizzard wanted to fix: everyone using the exact same builds, or at least allocating their attribute points exactly the same. If that's going to happen, why have attribute points?

@OrigamiRobot except I don't think it was annoying. I think it was fun.

I really enjoy spending attribute points and deciding where to put them.

@MBraedley Not only that, but item bonuses are far far far more important than character attributes.

@Wipqozn But there is no decision. There was one single correct way. Any other way is just hurting yourself.

@OrigamiRobot yes, but figuring out what works is fun.

"Enough STR and DEX to use your equipment, the rest in VIT."

That was literally every single D2 build.

@OrigamiRobot Especially when there's numerical proof that one way is the best

Also, if there's no decision then that's a problem with the implementation and not the concept.

In that respect though, how Diablo 3 different?

@Wipqozn It's because the item bonuses are far more important.

And you do have a choice there.

So why bother with attributes?

@OrigamiRobot You're a sorceress, so you should put a bunch of points in whatever the mana stat was. WRONG!

@OrigamiRobot Yes, but if the problem is that there is only one proper stat set up then it doesn't matter if thos estats come from armor or attributes. there's still only one way to build.

The question then just becomes "Which armor set gives you the best stats?"

@Wipqozn No, there were lots of builds.

@OrigamiRobot Yes, but why? What makes it different from D2? The stat system is still there, you've just shifted it all onto items.

@Wipqozn I'm saying there were lots of builds in D2.

My first cursed chest. Yay

But builds were set up around which skills you were using, not which attributes you put points into.

Builds revolved around skills and items, not attribute points. So they removed attribute points.

Considering we fundamentally disagree on attribute points I doubt we're going to come to a decision.

@Yuki If this is still available, I do!

I think taking the time to figure out the perfect build is half the fun.

@Wipqozn I'm saying a build is more than just attribute points.

For instance, you could do a traps assassin, or a martial arts assassin. The attributes for both are still basically the same.

Heck, I enjoy the planning aspect a lot more in most games than the actual playing. Pokemon is a great example of this.

@OrigamiRobot I never meant to claim otherwise. I'm saying it's part of a build.

@Wipqozn In Diablo, it's like 1% of your build.

@OrigamiRobot You can't claim that not having a specific attribute set-up breaks your build and then claim attributes are only 1% of your build.

If attributes can make or break a build they're important.

@Wipqozn You're misunderstanding.

Attribute points are 1% of your build. Stats are very important.

Attribute points being the things you distribute between stats.

Now, Blizzard still has a bit of a problem with homogeneous builds in the late game, with most classes settling into a set of about 3 builds, but it's still a bit better than D2.

Speaking of skills, I also dislike getting rid of skill points. I think the skills themselves are better, in that in D2 a build was essentially just spam one or two skills. D3 does have you using multiple skills in build.

If I wasn't forced to diversify my paragon points, I'd just dump them all in either attack speed or crits.

I just really enjoy having attribute and skill points to spend at every level up. It gives you something to look forward to, and makes you look forward to leveling up. It makes it feel like more than just a bump in your level. In D3 I rarely noticed when I leveled up. I sometimes would level up 2 or 3 times without noticing.

I also enjoy figuring out the best way to distribute my skill and stat points.

The benefit to leveling up is getting access to new skills and items. It always has been.

@Wipqozn I actually prefer skill trees over how D3 did it. Setting up a character in BL/BL2 is much more enjoyable to me than D3.

@Wipqozn the problem with planning is that you either have to trust someone else's experiences with skills and stats, or you have to spend enormous amounts of time rerolling your character and experimenting with builds

@MBraedley Yea, I miss the D2 skill system.

@Chippies Which is fun.

@Wipqozn Except in D2 when you couldn't respec. It's a problem fixed in BL/BL2 (for a cost, of course)

Also, to be clear: I don't think having to make 20 different characters and getting them all to level 50 to see a one point difference is fun. I think a stat reset system should exist.

@Wipqozn I'm not saying it's not, but for many people having to remake your character just because your cool build didn't turn out to be as cool as you thought, can be quite devastating

@Wipqozn And you can still do that with items and skills. Just like you always could.

@OrigamiRobot Me too

@Chippies Which is solved by letting you reset your build without forcing you to make a new character.

@Wipqozn I just don't like attribute and skill points where it just makes things even more into cookie-cutter builds.

@MBraedley Fortunately they added respecs to D2 later.

@Wipqozn yes, that is the best solution :)

I remember being kicked in D2 once because I didn't have the same end stats as one "uber Necro" build.

@OrigamiRobot Must have stopped playing by that point.

@Yuki Yikes

@Yuki No system can fix stupid players.

Also, once again, removing attribute points doesn't solve that problem at all.

If I had free reign over my attributes in D3, I'd just dump them all into my primary stat and that would be the best way to do it for every class. You get so few stat points from leveling compared to from items that it's meaningless.

@OrigamiRobot If the primary stat is the only one that matters I'd say that's a problem with the system.

@Wipqozn It's not the only one that matters. Read the last part of what I said.

@Wipqozn It was more the inability to reverse it that frustrated me.

Adding respec would've made things a lot better.

Much of the problem with Barbs is that their primary stat is both damage AND armor for them. Makes the choice completely obvious.

@Yuki which is solved by addiing the ability to reset them.

If your only problem is the lack of a respec then your problem isn't really with attribute points themselves it's the lack of resetting.

If diablo 3 forced you to choose a few skills on level up and you could *neveR*change them, it would have the same problem as non-resseting stat points.

@Frank Each class has it's damage stat give some kind of toughness bonus. Str gives armor, Dex gives dodge, Int give res.

@Yuki But as I said earlier, it only moves the problem to a different area, not remove it completely. Resetting attributes only means you can "fix" your build.

@OrigamiRobot Yes, the "attribute" points are meaningless compared to items, but they don't need to be.

I'd much prefer a system where attribute points and items are more equal in meaningfullness (which is totally a word), where you can also decide how to spend those points.

@OrigamiRobot Armor is the clear winner in that one. Many things can't be dodged. Resistance is subject to diminishing returns long before armor is, I believe.