The Bridge

agent86

7:00 PM

@James of all the rep that was awarded to that question and its answers, you walked away with 54% of it

James

@agent86 Ah... Thanks :)

agent86

ie, if the question was at +2, and your answer at +5, you scored 50 rep points of 60 total that were awarded.

Grace Note

@RonanForman Do you have a nice linkable set of details that I can use in getting in touch with someone?

Ronan Forman

Linkable details?

James

@Lazers OP claims this post is not asking for a list of kinect games on Ubuntu. Can someone ask me how that is not what he is asking for?

Grace Note

7:03 PM

@RonanForman I don't know anything about how funding for this kind of thing works. So, details on what is necessary, what it accomplishes, and what our end would have to do. That kind of thing.

Jason Berkan

@Lazers I'm normally against close policies, but I think we need a policy that says we don't like questions where the answer is "Yes" or "No".

badp

why does the Origin website need flash just to display the "AVAILABLE AS A DIRECT DOWNLOAD" string anyway

Grace Note

@James Revision.

Ronan Forman

@Grace I'm not sure, I know that I need an address to send the cheques to.

Grace Note

Sounds like a job for PESTERING @MANA!

...when he gets out of class.

OrigamiRobot

7:05 PM

@GraceNote I hear pestering @Mana is fun! Can I join in?

agent86

@badp Origin is pro much.

Ronan Forman

Why are we pestering mana?

Arda Xi

@RonanForman Do we need a reason?

Ronan Forman

No, but I think we have one.

Grace Note

Because his brother works for youTube

Thus anything he doesn't know, he has better resources to get a straight answer.

Arda Xi

7:14 PM

I'm reasonably sure AdSense is handling the monetization aspects, not YouTube.

Ronan Forman

@ArdaXi They are.

Lazers

0

Q: How do I unlock areas in Find Mii 2?

I was playing through the secret quest in Find Mii 2 and tried to go to the Shrine of Judgement, but I got a message saying it was locked, and to try again later. How later? You can't exactly go back in this game, only forward to the next area, so if I choose a different path, I will have to wai...

find-mii-2

user30

new stackexchange.com design

user30

& chat.stackexchange.com

user30

& blog.stackexchange.com

Grace Note

7:29 PM

Oh, hey, that just rolled out already?

user30

It would appear so

Tim Stone

Argh, the top bar inconsistencies must die

user30

yeah, height is all over the place

Tim Stone

enters nitpick overload coma

Ronan Forman

user30

7:31 PM

Have you seen the new Basecamp project cards?

user30

They look just like the SE chat room cards.

Tim Stone

Heh, nice

OrigamiRobot

@RonanForman I think having no ads is a redeeming quality.

Gaming not on Gaming

0

Q: Error Message on Ubuntu Software Center "There isn't a software package called "corebreach" in your current software sources."

When I open the Ubuntu Software Center and I try to install the game CoreBreach by clicking on the Ubuntu Software Center on-top banner I get the message: "There isn't a software package called "corebreach" in your current software sources." This is how my software sources screen look like:

software game

fredley

I missed the channel switch, only just saw this

badp

7:33 PM

@ThomasMcDonald I can only see that while logged out

fredley

►

user30

stackexchange.com/sites

user30

^ nice

user30

although I'm not sure that's a great way of representing it...

Tim Stone

You can switch to list view, at least.

fredley

7:35 PM

@ThomasMcDonald What is the weighting?

Tim Stone

But it is pretty nifty.

fredley

So we're as big as SU/SF?

user30

We are.

Ronan Forman

@OrigamiRobot We don't have to have ads, I'd just like the option. Also I think there are other perks.

agent86

one of you who VTC'ed this question, would you mind responding to the meta thread:

-2

Q: Kinect for Ubuntu users

Is it going to be possible to play games for Kinect device on Linux (Ubuntu) platform? Could you write here some information about playing such games on this platform, if there are some problems. If there is a community around making Kinect games for Ubuntu and place where can I find some more in...

kinect linux ubuntu

Nick T

7:44 PM

Is this really a "list question"?

agent86

I think the only voter present is @OrigamiRobot

Nick T

I thought "list questions" were more of the *-rec type, where it solicits a list of answers, not an answer containing a list

user30

@NickT No, it's not a list question.

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 Who me?

Grace Note

I wouldn't call that a list question.

OrigamiRobot

7:49 PM

@DaveMcClelland already explained a bit of why I VTC'd

Tristan

@agent86 What are we voting on?

Grace Note

Not in the sense of what people call a bad list question.

The list aspect is no different than, say, this one on our own site. Yes, you're literally asking for a list. But you're not asking the problem type question.

Lazers

1

Q: What do I do in the poisonous room?

I keep losing heroes because they can't do anything in the room filled with poison. What can I do to get past this room? Do I need a certain potion?

find-mii-2

1

Q: Is "Kinect for Ubuntu users" off topic question?

Is this question off topic on Gaming SE? Why is this question off topic. How would you adjust it, where would you move it to be on topic?

discussion support allowed-questions off-topic-content

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan We are voting on whether you should be allowed to eat mashed potatoes. You personally.

Ben Brocka

Is there a word for games like Tiny Tower and Farmville that play in real time, whether the game is open or not?

Grace Note

7:52 PM

@BenBrocka Persistent (something).

But basically, you'd say that the world is persistent even whilst you aren't playing it.

Ben Brocka

persistent world, that's it...I always heard that used to refer to MMOs though

agent86

@OrigamiRobot you VTC'ed the question, the asker is curious as to why and posted on meta. can you summarize your feelings about the question?

Ben Brocka

never really thought of that as being the same as time-based games like Animal Crossing, I guess it is though

Grace Note

It's the same mechanic, ultimately. Time marches on.

Nick T

e.g. the game world persists while you're logged off

Grace Note

7:54 PM

By the by, that Ubuntu/Kinect question is now on Ask Ubuntu.

James

@agent86 Commented and upvoted the response to the meta question that explained the difference between the wide open and specific question.

agent86

indeed it is.

Tristan

@OrigamiRobot I don't even like mashed potatoes that much. Baked is fine, mashed makes me think I'm eating baby food.

user30

@ArdaXi Dota 2?

James

@GraceNote Hmm... interesting.. does time need to pass on its own for a world to be persistent?

OrigamiRobot

7:57 PM

@agent86 It was very discussion-y. I think even a non-discussion-y version would be better suited to Ubunto or GameDev (although I admit I haven't read their FAQ). Both of these reasons have already been brought up.

Grace Note

@James I'll point at what @NickT said immediately following my statement.

Ronan Forman

Can anyone remember who I based @john 's skin on?

Tristan

@ThomasMcDonald Speaking of Dota 2, I got a beta invite that I can't use.

James

@GraceNote I would consider Skyrim to have a persistent world because if I go and drop something some where it will remain there until the world consumes it again, but it does not advance while I am not in there.. so I dunno.. Interesting thought is all.

agent86

@OrigamiRobot Thanks for taking a look. I was just making sure that someone who was involved in the closure got involved in the meta thread.

Ben Brocka

7:59 PM

@James what do you mean? There's basically two ways to handle it; Server based where the server constantly actually plays the game out and keeps it all in sync, or time-based where when you play the game 24 hours later the game just processes 24 hours worth of background gameplay when it's next opened

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 Yea I had just finished looking at the meta thread when you first pinged me :P

I was going to suggest Ubuntu, but @badp beat me to it.

user30

@Tristan Give it to someone who can coach me. and arda.

user30

I think @Grace sounded interested but then it requires Steam.

Grace Note

@ThomasMcDonald Hum?

James

@BenBrocka Persistent to me just means that the world remembers me.. My actions had a persistent affect upon the world. Not that the world is awake while I am not in it.. just never occurred to me that that was what people might actually mean. I always summed that up as 'my actions are remembered' :)

user30

8:01 PM

@GraceNote Dota 2.

Grace Note

@James They're two different elements here - one is the persistence of the running of the game (as in, things continue to happen), versus the other is the state of objects persisting based on you not being around. One is on what is running, the other is on what is saved.

James

@Tristan Ooo If no one else wants it Ill take it :D

Ive only ever played LoL though, not Dota1

Ben Brocka

@James Nah, as used it basically means the world persists time-wise

Whether objects persist in the game's memory is something different and I don't think there's a specific term for it

James

@BenBrocka Realm of the Mad God.. Persistent or Not?

Tristan

@James I don't even know of I can give it away. I think it's locked to my Steam ID.

Grace Note

8:03 PM

@ThomasMcDonald Oh. I'm not actually into DotA 2 on account of not really being in the DotA scene anymore. I merely know how to play it and would be comfortable playing with y'all in order to make you feel less miffed for possibly messing things up on account of the lack of tutorials. That said, you're correct, I do not have Steam.

Ben Brocka

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_world#Offline_persistence You can kill off someone of OLD AGE in MGS3? That's awesome

user30

@Tristan Oh, so it's a recent invite.

Ben Brocka

@James never played it

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan That is not the issue at hand.

user30

The first (few?) waves of invites had additional giftable copies

Grace Note

8:04 PM

@James Persistent is ambiguous on its own - you'd need to qualify it with what you're referring to as being persistent.

James

I am pretty sure if no one entered one of the actual realms, nothing would change no matter how much time had passed... so does the passing of time mean anything with out the players progress through it...

Tristan

@OrigamiRobot Well what is the issue at hand?

James

Ok.. World of Warcraft.. if no players were ever in a server would anything on it ever change?

Grace Note

@James If this is the case, then that would not be a persistent world because it is requiring someone for change to happen.

James

What is there to persist if there is no tracking of the changes...

OrigamiRobot

8:05 PM

@Tristan Whether or not you are allowed to.

Ben Brocka

Persistent is more about the game than the players. Technically the game is still playing, there were just no changes

there was always the possibility of changes

Compare that to any other game, where when the game is off it's physically impossible for the game world to change, unless the save data/game media were physically altered

Grace Note

@BenBrocka That's a good way to put it.

James

@BenBrocka This might be worthy of a blog post to #AltDevBlogADay :)

Ben Brocka

Don't get too deep into the "if a tree falls and no one is around to hear it" aspect of it; that argument was always pedantry (and incorrectness) at it's finest

OrigamiRobot

It can mean the game continues even when you are not playing, or it could mean parts of the game don't reset when you leave (i.e. non-instanced).

Tristan

8:08 PM

@OrigamiRobot I'm technically not allowed to let you use my LoL account to try new champions, but am willing to do so regardless. Unfortunately the Dota 2 beta is locked in for my Steam account. They put the game in my library.

James

Nah my whole take on the thing is can call a world that never changes on its own, persistent..

Grace Note

@OrigamiRobot Hence why qualifying "persistent" with whatever attribute you're referring to is important.

OrigamiRobot

@GraceNote Yes, context is everything.

James

I believe that most people would call World of Warcraft, or any other MMO, persistent because they can go back and find their characters where/how they left them.

I do not think it would have anything to do with the world actually progressing/changing while they were gone.

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan Hey man, I'm on the side that wants to let you be free to eat whatever you choose.

Grace Note

8:09 PM

You're either referring (as a general effect) to progress as persisting (game world continues when not played), or state as persisting (actions resolved on world remain no matter passage of time), which are independent effects.

Ben Brocka

@James Nah...that's how most games work anymore

They're persistent worlds, not persistent player coordinates

Tristan

@OrigamiRobot I'm so confused my brain hurts.

James

@BenBrocka I know, it has become the standard.. but does that mean the phrase has lost its usefullness and is now just a check box on a marketing list of 'We can say persistent world' hehe.

Grace Note

@James The persistence of "how" is generally an accepted necessity for what a save file does. ♪

That's why I figure people don't entirely market that when they talk about persistent worlds - it's no better than NES technology at that point.

James

@GraceNote Aye, a persistent world becomes what every game is that doesnt reset when you start it up again.

Ben Brocka

8:11 PM

@James No, the persistent you're talking about is pretty ubiquitous (where appropriate) but it is important when it's the world that plays itself when you're not there

agent86

@GraceNote Hold RESET while you turn the power OFF.

James

I still think it may be a worthy discussion topic for a blog post for game developers however :)

Ben Brocka

It is most definitely a feature of Animal Crossing, one not only worth listing but one the game wouldn't be remotely the same without

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 What?!?! I'll be good! I promise! Wait, what are we talking about?

James

@BenBrocka My topic would be something like: Does World of Warcraft (and other MMOs) still offer a Persistent World if you had to start over every time you logged in?

Grace Note

8:13 PM

@BenBrocka The berry system in some generations of Pokemon, for example, is persistence of this nature.

agent86

Limbo with a flashlight: dorkly.com/video/33102/limbo-with-a-flashlight

Ben Brocka

@James Depends if the world has soemthing to offer that differs beyond the players

Grace Note

@James I would recommend a different term there, honestly.

Ben Brocka

Animal Crossing does

Berries twitch those stupid berries

Grace Note

Either a less ambiguous term to call persistence, or just an entirely separate word choice altogether.

Ian Pugsley

8:14 PM

the term "persistence" has no direct link to "permadeath" (i.e. no saving of progress)

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote agreed

OrigamiRobot

Isn't WoW instanced?

Ben Brocka

@IanPugsley permadeath is different again; no going back

@OrigamiRobot I think raids are? I've never played

James

@GraceNote And that would be the exact discussion point of the blog.. We call these games persistent, but what makes them as such.

Ian Pugsley

persistence is typically in reference to the setting/server environment, rather than the player/client environment

Ben Brocka

8:15 PM

Boss fights are supposed to be or something

Grace Note

@James Who calls them persistent without qualifying the attribute?

Ian Pugsley

@BenBrocka isn't that what @James was mentioning - having to start over every time you log in?

Ben Brocka

...Raids are where you fight a/bunch of bosses, right?

Tristan

@OrigamiRobot raids and dungeons are instances. The overworld isn't

James

@BenBrocka More simply a raid is a dungeon fight.

StrixVaria

8:16 PM

Just mentioning WoW is making me really want to play Guild Wars 2 and really want to play Diablo 3.

Ben Brocka

Ah

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria I know the feeling....obviously.

Ben Brocka

Only MMO I played was Trickster Online

James

@IanPugsley Only if PermaDeath was like in the matrix where someone unplugged you by force :)

Ben Brocka

I don't like the MMO idea of bosses anymore

Tristan

8:17 PM

@James technically raids are ten/twenty five man dungeons. Regular five man dungeons are just... Dungeons?

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Curses!

James

@Tristan Correct, but all of those are instanced.

Ben Brocka

?

Lazers

1

Q: Should shops be open at all times?

I recently started playing Tiny Tower. I only have a few shops at the moment, but I do my best to keep them open at all times by keeping them stocked. The only problem I seem to notice is that my bitizens often make comments such as, "It feels like (x) shop never closes!" I know that if the sho...

ios tiny-tower

0

Q: Can the clock be goofed in Tiny Tower?

Many "Persistent World" games like Farmville prevent cheating by requiring an internet connection so you're always playing by their clock; Tiny Tower does does require an internet connection. Does this mean it's possible to play with my device's clock and manipulate the game time? Does the game ...

tiny-tower

James

Which I think was the key point of the question in its context

(are raids instanced.. all dungeons are instanced, etc)

Tristan

8:19 PM

Yes they are.

OrigamiRobot

@Lazers Does this need the ios tag?

StrixVaria

Someone recommend a game like GW2 or D3 that I can play to hold me over until one of those games is released.

I refuse to pay a monthly fee, but I'm not opposed to buying a game.

Ben Brocka

@OrigamiRobot I'd say no, the game is the same in that regard in Android as well

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Guild Wars! Diablo 2!

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot Bah!

Maybe I'll install Torchlight again...

Grace Note

8:20 PM

@StrixVaria How "like" are you looking for?

Raven Dreamer

@GraceNote Do you have a PSN account / want to be friends with me?

@StrixVaria That's what I was going to suggest.

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria LoTRO

Grace Note

@RavenDreamer Not yet / I wouldn't mind but I have a weird name possibly.

Ben Brocka

@StrixVaria never did finish that

StrixVaria

@GraceNote Active combat, hordes of enemies to kill, don't really have to worry about teaming up with other people.

And not prequels to those games.

Ben Brocka

8:21 PM

I hate my PSN name, I wish I could change it

Grace Note

Mmkay

Raven Dreamer

@StrixVaria Dynasty Warriors Nth!

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot Does that have a monthly fee?

Grace Note

@BenBrocka I said curses because it means you haven't played a certain MMO which means naturally I can't squeeze info out of you.

Ben Brocka

Not an MMO fan

I did like Trickster though...except for a bunch of the MMO parts

Grace Note

8:22 PM

Nor'm I, generally.

StrixVaria

I only ever played through Torchlight as the...big warrior archetype guy.

I should try the...scrawny mage archetype guy.

I don't remember class names.

Grace Note

My MMO progress was Subspace -> Gunbound -> DotA (well, sorta-kinda as really the only link to...) -> League of Legends.

Raven Dreamer

@StrixVaria Alchemist

I think the burly guy was a Destroyer, and the gunslinger chick was Vanguard.

StrixVaria

@RavenDreamer Yeah, that one.

agent86

@StrixVaria that character's totally OP

OrigamiRobot

8:23 PM

@StrixVaria No it's Freemium

Raven Dreamer

@GraceNote Gunbound!

StrixVaria

And I'll have a cat!

@agent86 Is he really? The Destroyer seemed pretty much invincible during my first playthrough.

Grace Note

I'm looking at a different one now but I'm still in the process of investigation, so if it's not an appealing game I don't really intend to advert it hugely.

StrixVaria

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: What should I name my cat in Torchlight?

Grace Note

@RavenDreamer When they went to Gunbound World Championship edition, they cut off access to my account. I was saddened.

agent86

8:25 PM

@StrixVaria Mr. Whiskers

fredley

@StrixVaria Chell

StrixVaria

@agent86 Done.

Ben Brocka

I'm not sure I'd call DotA or LoL an MMO, dont' they have fairly low player counts in a single game?

Nick T

@StrixVaria Dog

StrixVaria

Well, when I get home from work.

fredley

8:25 PM

@NickT Correct answer

Ben Brocka

@StrixVaria cat face

Nick T

@BenBrocka they are not MMOs

fredley

@BenBrocka Very good

agent86

@StrixVaria yeah. he gets an AoE and a DoT which are both crazy overpowered. I would sometimes just hold the right mouse button down and lay waste to whole armies

Nick T

MMO = persistent, multiplayer game world at the very least

OrigamiRobot

8:26 PM

@StrixVaria Chapstick!

Ben Brocka

He's got the face of a cat and the body of a cat

fredley

@BenBrocka INCORRECT

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Yeah, they probably aren't MMOs, but they're the closest to an MMO that I play nowadays.

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot Oh man this one is really really tempting. I might have to go back on my word to agent numbers.

I'm going to put an exclamation point in his name too.

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Yes! he is an action hero!

fredley

8:27 PM

@BenBrocka He's got the body of a cat, and the face of a cat, and he flies through the air 'cos he's got a cat face, CAT FACE

agent86

@StrixVaria I forgive you.

Ben Brocka

I haven't watched those cartoons in a year

probably more

fredley

@BenBrocka You've got a lot of catching up to do then

Grace Note

I group them closer to MMOs on the part where the major game world is an online multiplayer experience, you'd actually class Gunbound as equally non-MMO if you just look at the match size for example.

Ronan Forman

On a scale of 1 to ewww, how weird does this look?

Ben Brocka

8:28 PM

holy crap we have a lot of Skyrim questions. I wasn't expecting it to be ahead of minecraft

Nick T

@GraceNote They're no more MMO than TF2 is though

@BenBrocka old news :P

Grace Note

@NickT I kinda class that in the same class, again.

fredley

@BenBrocka Wow. More MC questions needed!

James

@BenBrocka There is a lot more complexity to Skyrim than Minecraft... and alot of minecraft questions are just directing people to the Wiki for it :)

fredley

@BenBrocka About 54 I reckon

@James Can you write a C compiler in Skyrim? I think not!!

Ben Brocka

8:29 PM

Program Skyrim in minecraft

2

Check. Mate.

Ronan Forman

@OrigamiRobot Should I do us two blocky too?

Grace Note

The stats on the top 3 tags are amusing - Skyrim's got "Questions asked this day/this week", Minecraft has "This week/this month", and Starcraft 2 has "This month/this year".

Nick T

@GraceNote they're just games with online multiplayer; not "massively"

James

@fredley LoL, Just cause you can take simple logic components and make something complex out of them, doesnt make them complex :)

fredley

@James No, but there is more capacity for complexity

Grace Note

8:31 PM

@NickT I entreat that I am misusing a term to classify a class of game on the grounds of its playerbase over its actual essence.

James

@fredley I still stand by that Skyrim is a much more complex game than minecraft :)

OrigamiRobot

@RonanForman I don't see why not.

fredley

@James In the end, the amount of stuff you can do in Skyrim is finite. In Minecraft, due the the fact it is composable, there is infinite possiblity.

Nick T

while the "massively" could just mean the number of people that interact with each other in a very broad sense (anyone could play an LoL or TF2 game with anyone else), it's usually applied more rigidly; interactions within a set game world

Ronan Forman

@OrigamiRobot I mean for that picture, does that look okay or should I make it all blocky?

Ben Brocka

8:31 PM

When you can make fractals in either game I will admit that game is complex

(I did make a Mandelbrot set in minecraft when Mandelbrot died but it wasn't a fractal fractal)

James

@fredley Not buying that either.. Add in the creation kit to skyrim and you have both games on equal footing... The difference is that the creation kit is just part of minecraft as opposed to an external editor.

Grace Note

@NickT I find there's a distinct difference between, say an Armored Core game where you have online multiplayer as an option but it's not what the core is built around, versus something like Gunbound where you don't even have a single player option. That's what my classification is bound on.

fredley

@James Then that's not a part of the game really is it? You can get editors for many games

James

@fredley Including Minecraft and its Mods :)

Arda Xi

Orly.

Grace Note

8:34 PM

Essentially, games where the multiplayer environment (whether or not you experience it in multiplayer, as some like LoL let you do this without others) is the core piece, versus games where the multiplayer environment is just the multiplayer aspect of that game.

fredley

@James But with Vanilla, unmodded, MC, you have limitless possibilities. Skyrim will keep you occupied for many hours, but not infinite hours

OrigamiRobot

@RonanForman I would say all or nothing.

Ronan Forman

Got it.

Grace Note

I don't have the proper term for these so I've basically co-opted "MMO" as a hack to refer to them, as all actual MMOs tend to share this exact same trait.

badp

@Brant still no news?

Grace Note

8:35 PM

I wouldn't call Adventure Quest, for example, an MMO because while its only setting is the one on an online base with tons of other players that you mingle about with, you never play with each other so it ain't multiplayer to begin with.

James

@fredley You don't though.. Yeah I can make any number of randomly generated worlds, and I can build any number of houses in each of those worlds. I can kill an unlimited number of creatures, I can build an unlimited number of mob traps.. etc... But are the things I can do really unlimited? I still say No. I can only do what the world allows me to do.

Wipqozn

badp

@ArdaXi I'd rather not use them to send Valve the message that we don't want more of them

Also because I have no use for them.

Nick T

@Wipqozn wrong YARLY image

Arda Xi

@badp I think Valve got that.

Nick T

8:36 PM

Ben Brocka

Where those the "portal coupon" things or what/

James

@BenBrocka I think I have a 25% off of everything valve made or something like that coupon.

fredley

@James Using redstone alone you could keep building circuitry until you'd built every chip that every existed, right up to present day models. You could then encode every piece of software ever written and run them on the computers you built. You probably wouldn't get a great framerate, but this is just illustrating what you can do with a tiny subset of the game's potential

badp

I wonder if I should redeem either bad rats or day of defeat: source or trade them

Nick T

@fredley And using stones on sand you could do the same thing as well

Wipqozn

8:38 PM

@NickT Them be fighting words boy

Nick T

James

@fredley You cant actually because of the size of the wiring are limited by the number of active chunks you can have at one time.

fredley

@James On a server you can have as many as you want, with enough players

James

@NickT Loved that comic :)

Nick T

or mod the server with "players" that keep more chunks loaded

Grace Note

8:39 PM

Hm...

This isn't good...

James

@NickT No Mods! :D

fredley

@NickT No way to 'compile' your stones

Nick T

@fredley what does compiling have to do with anything

fredley

@NickT In Minecraft you can not only make the patterns that describe this stuff, you can build the machines that run them -> more complex

badp

@GraceNote Oh dear. If you're worried, we're doomed.

Nick T

8:41 PM

@fredley isn't that the same problem?

Grace Note

@badp Well, no, I just thought about how I could challenge @Arda's level of dedication (as in, give him a challenge), but I have neither a reason nor a motive for doing so, but the option still appeals to me.

fredley

@NickT What problem?

Raven Dreamer

His dedication to what?

Arda Xi

Huh? What?

Grace Note

@RavenDreamer The trait itself, the ability to dedicating one's self to something.

Michel Ayres

8:42 PM

When do I know if someone is not following the Etiquette ?

James

@fredley I already admitted that you can create things considered Complex in Minecraft... I still deny that it is a complex game as compared to Skyrim.

badp

@GraceNote Well, there's still that dating sim.

Arda Xi

@GraceNote Which, oddly, I usually tend to have a severe lack of.

James

However, if we compared minecraft to the Creation Kit. I believe minecraft would lose this argument.

Grace Note

@badp I can't find that as suitable motive or reason for this task.

Nick T

8:42 PM

@fredley why is one level of simulation any different than the next in terms of capability? complexity, sure, but if something can simulate something else, it could simulate simulating something else too

fredley

@James I'm not arguing that, but in the vanilla game MC is much more limitless

badp

@GraceNote Arda would have a lot of dedication in making sure it doesn't happen!

and if it does happen, that it doesn't actually finish

fredley

@NickT Skyrim can't simulate anything!

Grace Note

@badp Yeah, but in the off-chance that he doesn't succeed, then I'd be forced to follow through on my end of the bargain.

badp

and if it does finish, that it doesn't actually ship on Steam

James

8:43 PM

@fredley Not really.. Skyrim simulates a breathing world that you can run around in.. Minecraft has electronic component simulation :)

Arda Xi

@GraceNote Bargain? What are we talking about?

Raven Dreamer

I lost them at "Dating Sim".

badp

@RavenDreamer Does that predate you?

@RavenDreamer Nope

Grace Note

@ArdaXi @badp is suggesting that I get the motive/reason to challenge your dedication by stating I'd, like, actually work on and publish the dating sim thing with you in it unless you succeeded. Which isn't actually a motive/reason for me to present the challenge.

fredley

@James But you can create things in MC, machines, contraptions, whole other games. There's no way you could conceivably make tetris, or angry birds in skyrim, but both have been made in MC

Arda Xi

8:45 PM

@GraceNote You know, I'd actually like to see that thing finished. If anything, I can make money off the libel suit. ;-)

Grace Note

@badp He might not have been in the room at the time.

Raven Dreamer

@badp It can not predate me, and I can just be oblivious.

StrixVaria

Speaking of Skyrim, is that world editor thing they promised in January out yet?

Lazers

0

Q: What are the standings requirements (if any) to anchor a POS in low sec?

I'm looking to anchor a POS in a low security system in EVE, but I can't seem to find a conclusive answer to the question above. Some guides seem to indicate that standings aren't required to anchor in low security space while other guides seem to indicate that I can only anchor in systems with ...

eve-online

James

@fredley Show me Tetris in Minecraft... or even Angry Birds

Grace Note

8:45 PM

@ArdaXi Haha, as I said back in the day, the worst I'd consider ever doing is just artwork of the characters.

Raven Dreamer

@James Tetris has been done, I think.

James

@StrixVaria Yeah,the Creation Kit. can get it through steam.

Grace Note

@James There's an Angry Birds board game, so I figure that it shouldn't be hard to implement the game in some fashion in Minecraft.

StrixVaria

@James Awesome! Thanks.

fredley

@James Angry birds: youtube.com/watch?v=sJHw8m6SQDQ

Grace Note

8:46 PM

@Lazers This question comes out really weirdly if you read it with a different expansion of the POS acronym.

James

@GraceNote Its a physical representation of the video game. You actually set up the pigs and their houses and then use a sling shot to take em out.

Grace Note

@James I heard of it from Jeopardy.

StrixVaria

@fredley That is hilariously innovative but hardly an Angry Birds clone.

fredley

@StrixVaria Like to see you do better in Skyrim :-)

Raven Dreamer

@StrixVaria Yeah, not enough arc.

James

8:48 PM

@fredley Haha, now that is an awesome minecraft creation, but if that is angry birds then me shooting dragons and having them crash to the ground is also angry birds :P

@GraceNote I actually looked at the game on amazon (i love board games :D).

Nick T

@fredley what if you stacked up wheels of cheese? the physics engine could essentially run some sort of simulation, no?

fredley

@NickT Angry Cheese?

StrixVaria

Is Minecraft Turing complete?

fredley

@StrixVaria Yes

James

@NickT Aye, you could also use the console window to create those objects, your breath attack to launch em off the mountain and such

StrixVaria

8:49 PM

Is Skyrim?

James

@StrixVaria Yes

Nick T

55

Q: Is Minecraft Turing-Complete?

Minecraft has the redstone wires mechanism that can be used to build circuits. Is Minecraft Turing-Complete, i.e. can it be used to simulate a Turing Machine (if we ignore the problem of infinite memory)?

minecraft minecraft-redstone

fredley

@StrixVaria Sounds like a q for the site

Ian Pugsley

@NickT darnit you beat me

StrixVaria

@fredley I don't know about that. Turing-Completeness isn't really a gaming concept. I don't think Oak's linked question is entirely on topic, but I'm not going to spend any effort trying to get it closed.

It's a fun discussion, but not a great question.

Nick T

8:51 PM

@StrixVaria programming is part of Minecraft (redstone), it's not really a part of Skyrim

fredley

@StrixVaria I think it's a great question

It's interesting, and answerable, and on-topic

StrixVaria

@NickT I just brought up Turing machines as a way to point out that they're not comparable. I forgot to make that point, though.

James

@NickT That would be the answer @fredley

fredley

@James Is there some comparably complex thing that is in Skyrim though?

James

And I think that answer is very straight forward.. No one who isnt part of this debate here would even consider asking that question I do not think

StrixVaria

8:52 PM

@fredley Turing machines are decidedly off topic. What is possible to accomplish in Minecraft is decidedly on topic. The combination of the two is a fuzzy middle ground, and I'm not willing to argue it because I just don't care enough.

Nick T

@James that would be a comment as to why I'm closing the question, the answer is probably "Yes" because it has a physics simulator which could be reappropriated in myriad ways

fredley

@StrixVaria The on-topic-ness of Minecraft overrides the off-topic-ness of the turing machine

James

@fredley I would say their radiant system is -greatly- more complex than the logic gates of Minecraft

fredley

Cakes are off-topic. Baking cakes in Minecraft: on topic

@James Radiant what?

StrixVaria

@fredley In your opinion. In my opinion it does not. You're making it really hard not to argue this.

James

8:53 PM

@fredley Its the name of the system that hands out the random quests.. Makes every AI remember what you have done either at large or to them specifically.

Measures your skill ratings to know if you can summon them a warm bed or enchant their dull blade.

fredley

@James Complex in implementation, I agree. The relative file-sizes of both games make that obvious. I have no problem with Skyrim being a much more complex piece of work. However the complexity of what you can do in the game is vastly greater in MC

James

Tracks the regrowth of resources in the open world, etc.. Its the core that they cite for making the world seem alive.

Ronan Forman

I don't know what wondercraft is on about, drawing minecraft is easy.

fredley

Anyway, it is chicken kiev time. Ta-ta for now.

Ronan Forman

I think I have a new gravatar.

Transcript for