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12:14 AM
ok the "Help us grow this site!" sidebar house ad is up on gaming.stackexchange.com
Ooh, neat
1:14 AM
Has anyone noticed that little games like dwarf-fortress are generating a fair amount of questions?
Look at who has been asking most of them, C. Ross
Well, less who it is and more how many people are asking them
yes, it's a small but active group
Only 7/22 questions aren't asked by the same person.
1:16 AM
Yes, but how many people have participated? 10 or so?
A fair number. Which is good to see
11 answers, 6 askers, if you want pure numbers
Yes, I figure that's pretty good for a such a small game ...
I never really thought of Dwarf Fortress being that small
Still to be a successful site it'll probably need more fallout-3 and halo-3.
I actually think we could use a little more pull to some of the more niche games
1:19 AM
How so?
Hah, I'm speaking that only because I'm not getting any real action in the parent site.
But as I mentioned on the Meta site, I'm a bit amazed that we haven't had anything really touching things like shooters or fighting games
can you link that?
Halfway through the second paragraph here: meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/324/…
1:35 AM
Q: Is Protoss the easiest race in StarCraft II?

user563I have heard from quite a few people saying Protoss is for noobs because it's the easiest race of the three. How is protoss easier than other races? Is it true that it's much easier to get good at it?

^ subjective, no ?
Yes, quite
@Grace ref Usage: Well put. Hopefully we'll see a build up of users soon.
These SE sites all seem to like the discussions vs Q&A model.
Web-Apps is pretty Q&A ... Gaming certainly has more discussion than would be tolerated on the core sites.
I honestly wish we would get more question-type questions
That's really why I support the Gaming site - I want to actually answer the kinds of questions where people are having difficulties in games and such
1:38 AM
Gaming is a turn-off with the constant walkthroughs, game recs and identify posts.
Indeed. I think we can accept game recs and identify, but we're hitting way too many for this stage
Q: What are some good turn-based games on iPhone?

Brian KimI'm looking for some good turn-based games on iPhone. Puzzle games, board games, strategy games or anything. Genre doesn't matter. I've had a lot of fun with Words with Friends. I'm looking for something new.

There are already so many places to just talk about games, don't think it carrying over on SE would help.
Have only so many downvotes to give on such types of posts.
I don't think downvotes will change anything
hey, I saw my name :P
1:45 AM
Sadly you're right. And it's trending too much in that flavour of questions.
We really need to get some actual questions, then.
I can think of several good ones, but... I don't think anyone has played a number of the games, nor have we really gotten a strong pull
Amiga? Coleco?
Suguri. Bunny Must Die.
I also had a good R-Type Final question, but it really feels awkard to ask about that with my display name...
I really expected my Cave Story question to fare better, too. And hopefully attract actual gameplay questions
cave story ? @grace
Freeware PC indie game developed by a guy who goes by the handle "Pixel". An excellent retro game that meshes solid gameplay with an engaging story
Ah, the tribute site has updated since it first came out, but in any case: miraigamer.net/cavestory
If you like good platforming action, I recommend you give it a shot (and ask questions about it!)
1:52 AM
Ah. Will check it.
facebook games are considered offtopic right,as per A51 discussion ?
Don't know about that, quite. There seem to be some Mafia Wars questions
I don't use Facebook so I'm not going to cast a vote on whether they're on-topic or not. I'll enforce if they are off-topic, though
There doesn't seem to be a conclusion drawn (even if both of the participants seem to agree).
What a mess of definition.
I didn't even remember that "identify-this-game" was one of our "great ontopic examples"
2:01 AM
Hm, tagline for Gaming on A51: Beta Q&A site for passionate gamers from all platforms (computers and consoles)
Facebook is a console right?
People can argue about whether a web-based game is really a "computer" game
heh. its a webapp, no ?
Which is an odd argument, to say the least
I honestly don't even know what a web app is. I was fine with things until everyone these days is just "apps this" and "apps that".
Is it just an application that is hosted on the web? Is that all that qualifies?
anything which doesn't run off your local system ?
2:04 AM
I run half my games from an external harddrive instead of on Grace Note herself
Sounds about right. Web Apps are closed on SU when they're site based and no installable.
@random ever get tired of posting a comment " Webapps are offtopic, post on webapps.stackex" ?
Yes. But in Opera it's a saved note. So just a tap down in the comment area and it's there.
Actually had about 10 go-to comments a while back before wiping them out. Most are only posted on comments-as-answers.
2:11 AM
@random ? Missed a link ?
Missed link where? @sathya
@random wrt: "Actually had about 10 go-to comments a while back before wiping them out"
Still not seeing it, mate. You'll have to unpack that one.
Q: PBEM strategy games - recomendations?

PulseIn the past I played a couple of PBEM (Play by email) games, which I quite enjoyed and the formula was well suited to my work schedule. I now find myself with more time on my hands and would like to revisit this type of gaming. If possible, I'd like some recommendations for some PBEM games. I'm...

Ah no worries @Random
2:17 AM
I think PBEM sounds a bit like stretching the definition of our scope
Gaming could do with some finer scoping.
2:33 AM
well now is the time to work out /faq contents
I'll be honest with you, my confidence is low on gaming for all the reasons I gave in the Herding Code podcast.
I will do what I can to make it work, but I have grave concerns.
As much as I want Gaming to live, I really agree that we're not really giving any good signs
herdingcode.com/?p=263 podcast there, I can't remember where my gaming comments were exactly but there were a lot of them.. just scrub around until you find 'em
I could very well be wrong. Lots of people said Super User wouldn't work, and I thought it could (and does!)
I'm getting great answers to my questions on dwarf fortress. I would have abandoned the game without gaming.stackexchange.com
SU works now?
Juan Manuel was citing a lot of concern after hearing your podcast
2:39 AM
@random I fixed it 10 minutes ago.
3:04 AM
Comments about Gaming are around minute 12
Oh, hey Juan
They weren't a lot of concern... just a little
I may have overstated it, perhaps
I couldn't get in until now...
3:05 AM
Q: I can't enter the chat

Downvoter It doesn't ask me for the beta password (this is a different machine than before where I never authenticated)

Yeah, we've been linking your question in some of the other rooms
What finally worked?
log out / log in from meta
So, you were talking about the imminent failure of Gaming?
(I'm currently reading back a little)
3:08 AM
More like trying to find a way for Gaming to lift up its game
I think we need to give it a little more time, it's been on public beta for a few hours
Well, we're not really getting a lot of good technical questions like "How do I get past this puzzle" or "Why can't I turn right?"
Also, blessed be the games in which you not only need an item to be able to turn right, but you can also beat the game entirely without said item.
Really does feel like all it is is, "recommend me a game"
you guys need to clamp down on that stuff
maybe part of the /faq should be "game recommendations are not allowed"
Those types are definitely killed on SU.
3:10 AM
yeah, I agree
At first it seemed like a good idea, but now I'm starting to think that we really should be blocking them
we can also customize close reasons for you -- should this be a specific close reason? On SU it's "shopping recommendation"
SU actually has a shopping rec close-reason?
but it's the kind of question that comes up at the beginning and closed afterwards
you tell us what needs to happen.. editing /faq .. more moderators (this is coming next week) .. different close reasons..
3:11 AM
happened on SO also
doesn;t game recommendation close reason come under subjective/argumentative ?
well, no, you're right -- it's basically "off topic, go read the faq"
On SU, it's just "off-topic" with maybe a comment about it not being the shopping channel. Other days, for variety, it's NARQ.
narq is like "wtf?"
3:12 AM
not a real question
I generally go for voting off-topic on SU. NARQ - is like @jeff said - "WTF does that question say?"
oh, i misread Jeff's statement as a question, sorry
Well, I'm all for shutting down game-recommendations, even if I created the tag. I honestly didn't expect it to balloon like it did
That's the slippery slope of an inch stretched out to reach Neptune
Gaming definitely needs mods with insta-close to set the right path for it
3:16 AM
I agree, but we should reach a consensus... perhaps this "discussion" about recommendations should go to meta
Q: [game-recommendations] and single, correct answers

OakOn my question asking about game recommendations, the user random asked how such a question can have a single, correct answer. It's a very good question, in my opinion, so I bring it here - especially since it is relevant to all questions tagged [game-recommendations], which is already one of th...

yes, I was just reading that
See, on principle, the question "can be answered with a single correct answer". But that doesn't make it a good question for our future success. I'm going to withdraw my answer now.
Feeling like "I don't know enough to even attempt an answer" would set some kind of bar between good and bad types of questions. Questions where everyone can have a say, not good. The level would be set at the basement then
That's a very good metric, @random
3:24 AM
@Grace did that last edit to the Dwarf Fortress Fun question make a difference?
wth is this dwarf fortress :/
the most awesome game ever, that's wth
To be honest, antony, I'm not sure
Q: Dwarf Fortress Fun

antony.trupeI'm looking for some inspiration. Are there any resources for finding Fun things other people have done/tried and trying to reproduce them myself?

Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress, also called Slaves to Armok II: Dwarf Fortress, but most commonly known simply as Dwarf Fortress, is a freeware computer game by Bay 12 Games for Microsoft Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X set in a high fantasy universe that combines aspects of roguelike and city-building games and is primarily known for its unique level of complexity and difficulty. The title of the game is inspired by its primary focus on the construction, management, and exploration of dwarven fortresses within the game world. Development started in October , follow...
my question is basically "I'm bored. Give me a challenge!"
does that belong?
3:26 AM
I don't consider that a very fitting to the site, no
Your boredom is not really something an expert at gaming can really address. It's still subjective
agree @Grace
sorry, my son woke up and started crying
im back
Welcome back
3:32 AM
the goal is to have more quality content
not quantity
and close more aggressively polls and subjective questions
Are you still limitted to a measly 12 votes right now?
I was kinda not voting to close as I could have because we've been opened so little time
3:33 AM
also, we can increase close votes. almost anything can be tweaked, as long as it makes sense to
but perhaps that's wrong, and we should stop these questions as soon as possible
Shopping rec question
Q: Good gaming machine for Starcraft II?

SkrymsliI'm planning to pick up a new system to coincide with the release of Starcraft II, but I haven't been keeping up with gaming hardware for a while... What system do you feel is the best value currently that will let me turn up all the settings to high, but won't cost an arm and a leg? (NOTE: I...

by the end of next week you should have pro-tem moderators to interface with us
@grace subjective
@grace that one is tough. gaming makes it off-topic for SU. I'd personally edit it to generalize it as "good gaming machine"
but then it'll be out of date in 6 months of course
3:35 AM
It strikes me as little past a shopping recommendation
probably best course of action, general advice like "buy a really nice video card."
pointing to the game requirements
for gaming that's pretty much all you need to do. whatever CPU your budget allows, and get a REALLY FRIGGIN NICE video card.
3:36 AM
too bad we didn't have the third place in the private beta
this is very fluid and useful
yes, it is a zillion times better than emailing back and forth
That kinda was why I asked about it on Meta, if we'd have it. The team can't be blamed (especially if the time to develop it gives us something as nice as what we have here), of course
chat IMO needs to be EXTRA EXTRA polished before release
too many risks
what risks
3:38 AM
the ways chat can go wrong, are .. massive and explosive
Definitely. I'm more than willing to wait for a perfectly refined product
@antony, you did for dwarf fortress the same you did with the LOTR guides...
lots and lots of questions practically equals
I think that hurts the site
3:43 AM
Q: Ordering existing LOTR guides

Juan ManuelI would like to reach a consensus on the existing LOTR guide questions (reducing the count for unanswered questions in the process). What do you think about closing them (or deleting them) in favor of having a single CW question for all guides about LOTR? That question exists now, but it's curr...

Sorry, just saw you talked about this before... sigh
4:15 AM
I think I'll start creating some more questions... I'm trying to keep my Q:A ratio 1:1 for the beta, but I've answered too much question (read: asked not enough)
Not a bad idea
And the game is: Super Paper Mario
Well, looks like I'm useless on that
don't worry, I've still got about 150 other savegames on my wii, not to mention the about 100 games on my steam account.
I don't actually do anything through Steam
Do we need something of a ruling against questions that are little more than "How do I play this game?"
4:31 AM
You mean like this question?
Q: What is a good strategy to play FreeCol?

txwikingerHow many units of people should remain in the first settlement? Is it better to create more settlements very fast?

Yes, that's the one I just saw, but we're getting a lot of questions like that
Oh, and subjective close candidate...
Q: Best PC games that support gamepads?

suhairI have gamepads but have not found any games that could be played with. Also i am on Windows 7.

It actually depends on the difficulty of the answer, try starting to play dwarf fortress without a guide. - and as the guides are not up-to date...
It's hard . . . in some cases these questions will be okay.
that first question could be reworded, voted to close the second one.
But if we allow too many of these strategy questions, there'll be stuff like "gimme starcraft strategy".
4:34 AM
That's my concern
We should be solving problems the player is having with the game - not playing the game for him/her
what is the difference in freecol between more settlements with a lower population and less settlements with higher population
seems like a valid question
Even if we can reformulate that specific question, we still need to set down a line for "tell me how to play this game" types of questions in the future
that is certainly true, just like we dont allow [give-me-teh-code] questions on stackoverflow.
It's hard to draw a line since it's sort of grey area.
What if a question is sort of descriptive, yet still seems like "gimme strategy"?
Give me an example (not necessarily from the site) of something you'd see in this grey area
I can't think of any example that is basically "play for me" that can really be fixed with being detailed
For a successful experience, not just for the site but for the question asker, the important thing is to isolate what the actual problem is that help is required for.
4:48 AM
Heh, never mind what I said. Now that I think about it, you're right.
I'm pretty new to all this Stack Exchange stuff. >.>
Ah, well, I hope your experience isn't too uncomfortable, then.
I think Grace just nailed it with the isolation of the actual problem.
Ah, it's getting mighty late, it seems. I'm off to bed. G'nite all~ ♪
it's early here... very early, off to work in about 2 hours...
It's sort of late here.
4:58 AM
have some rep mew ;)
Heh thanks. :)
You too. :P
So what exactly is supposed to be discussed here: talk about the actual site or talk about the subject of the site (in this case games)?
serious... "you can accept an answer in 54 sec"
Yeah, I voted your question up.
there, accepted!
5:22 AM
@Mew - normally, games would have its own chat.blah.com - this is just the beta/preview/whatever.
So within limits, feel free to discuss anything SOFU/SE that you like.
6:05 AM
1 hour later…
7:06 AM
@Grace Note: perhaps it should be like on MathOverflow, they have to be 'expert' questions
Anything that's just: lolz, Ididn't readz teh manual, showz me howz!
should be closed
7:44 AM
Q: Will I brick my Wii if I install HomeBrew?

Bernhard HofmannI've heard about the HomeBrew stuff (wiki) that'll let me download and install simple games and even write my own, but is it fully compatible with the latest updates? I've heard horror stories of people bricking their Wii's.

Kinda borderline...
Well, the electronic devices SE allows rooting
the Wii EULA doesn't, afaik.
I know, so does the HTC EULA
But yeah, it's kinda borderline, didn't we have a discussion on modifications on meta?
Oh, no, that's about PC games
8:13 AM
it speaks of shutdowns though.
1 hour later…
9:18 AM
site stats flair is live -- see sidebar on gaming.stackexchange.com
is the flair supposed to say what the numbers are?
I just see a bullet-point list of numbers / %s
Works fine for me
static resources from sstatic.net are cached for 7 days by default
we don't put cachebreakers on images
ah there we go
9:25 AM
A: Where do I download the manuals for games I buy on Steam?

Arda XiNot a lot of games include manuals with their Steam versions. If they are available, you can open them by right-clicking the game and choosing View Player Manual. I just checked, Mirror's Edge (the only game I have in your list) doesn't have a manual, only support pages.

<kbd> abuse! <kbd> abuse! waaaah!
grr -- that is a pet peeve of mine
it got 5 upvotes.. :(
well, the answer is correct
I guess the real problem of <kbd> is that the styling is too heavy
a 1px #888 border bottom and right would work just as well I think
true, the way wikia does it is a bit less outstanding
still it's cumbersome to use
9:29 AM
background-color: #F0F0F0; width: 32px; border-style: outset; border-width: 1px; margin:0; padding:0 2px; clear:none; font-family:monospace
Learn this spell with <kbd>M</kbd><kbd>a</kbd>?
I don't get how that's different from <kbd>Ma</kbd>
two different keystrokes!
there's no Ma key on your keyboard :P
I don't get how that's different from <kbd>Ma</kbd>
there is no Ma key on your keyboard :P
9:31 AM
There is no View- I see your point.
"I don't find the Any key!"
besides it should really be
why is this off-topic? I think it's on topic
Q: For fights, are you better off with real family members as opposed to hired-guns?

JohnFxObviously, having actual players in your mafia benefits you because they give you energy packs/gifts/etc. However, strictly for the purposes of fights, is there any advantage for having actual players in your mafia over the hired-guns that you can buy with reward points?

It should be on topic indeed...
but I can't cast close votes so I don't know what's the situation like
It doesn't have any close votes does it?
I think we might need a "List of X" close reason
9:34 AM
I think so far we've used 'subjective and argumentative' for that
What do you think of this question, @Jeff?
Q: Will I brick my Wii if I install HomeBrew?

Bernhard HofmannI've heard about the HomeBrew stuff (wiki) that'll let me download and install simple games and even write my own, but is it fully compatible with the latest updates? I've heard horror stories of people bricking their Wii's.

So, this better?
A: Where do I download the manuals for games I buy on Steam?

Arda XiNot a lot of games include manuals with their Steam versions. If they are available, you can open them by right-clicking the game and choosing View Player Manual. I just checked, Mirror's Edge (the only game I have in your list) doesn't have a manual, only support pages.

closed as "List of X" by {blah}, {blah}, {blah} 3 minutes ago
This question asks for the community to make a list of items, without
giving enough detailed context to provide an explanation of "why" or "how".
based on
Q: "What are some sites?" or "Let's make a list of X!" type questions

KinopikoHere is a question http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/620/what-are-good-qa-websites-out-there entitled "What are good Q&A websites out there ?" To me this seems to have nothing at all to do with web applications. Am I mistaken?

Wii question is fine with me.. I don't really care about legality unless it's CLEARLY illegal (linking to warez, gimme teh free softwarez, etc)
fair enough
9:38 AM
the definition of 'illegal' is vague with modding, I've been told often enough that what I'm doing with my phone (rooting and such) is illegal, but I can't imagine it breaking any laws
mostly it breaks either your EULA or the DMCA (or both)
Breaking an EULA is illegal too, I'm not covered by DMCA
I care not, that is the responsibility of the reader
er, breaking a contract is illegal? news to me
DMCA is regional indeed
Q: Should we have a "List of X" close reason?

Jeff AtwoodWe're seeing a lot of the Let's make a "List of X" problem on new Stack Exchange 2.0 sites. Like so. Our engine is absolutely brilliant at surfacing these questions, and they can have some utility ... but they're not really what we want -- they tend to be polls and copy-pasted content, not origi...

w/r/t to the Mafia Wars question Sathya said "offtopic, imo" and flagged it
I am not seeing how it is off topic at all
9:44 AM
well, as much as I'd rather not see this turned into facebookgamesoverload
facebook games are games still
we do need to include something in the /faq about legality
Should you even be using flagging to report something being off-topic?
you can, if you want
always flag if you feel strongly about something
@Arda: yes, if you can't cast close votes yourself
I would rather have more flags than less
9:45 AM
right, I've been a bit weary of using flagging when we only have two moderators who are also moderators on every other beta
er, exactly because we only have two mods (?) they can't check every single answer
should I just delete all his crazy copy pasted questions?
I was wondering about that
I vote "yes"
Why? He got answers...
9:46 AM
I'll delete the ones that didn't get answers
We've been trying to tell him to stop 'seeding' the site and he just moved on to another subject
oh, right, looking at page 1 sorted by votes will hardly help me
I mean, I never even played the game and I could answer a couple of his questions easily
yeah, the LoTR * Guide are simply spam
indeed, some of them got closed
this is a good case study in what NOT to do
I'll refer it to Robert
9:49 AM
Robert won't do anything about it until next week @Jeff
but while I agree his questions were spammy
I know for sure that there's an audience for these question
I already deleted them all
it's done
you are far too slow :)
but it would be more legit if actually players asked them
(well the ones with 0 answrs)
I don't have mod rights like you do
I feel handicapped on stackexchange :P
yes well we'll deal with that next week
Ideally someone should email Antony and explain what happened. I'm sure he means well.
But I do not have the time.
9:53 AM
he already responded to a couple of meta questions about this
so he knows he shouldn't do this anymore
He seems to interpret it as 'I shouldn't do it on LotR or WoW anymore'
"System Shock 2 Engineer Guide"
"System Shock 2 Fighter Guide"
I'll make robert email him
aww, I still need five more downvotes
for now the worst ever domain name suggestion is on webapps:
A: What should our .com domain name be?

KinopikoIncredible-Webables.com IncredibleWebables.com

oh wow
10:05 AM
I mean, it should be obvious that expertdexchange.com > *
expertlexchange.com would work for politics too!
why does thatonelevel have so many downvotes?
how many?
I don't know, I haven't downvoted all proposals that aren't mine
The only one I downvoted is oochelp.com
I still like globalthermonuclearwar.com
10:15 AM
still I don't get why
A: Suggest a domain name for this site

badpquestoverload.com (available) You didn't sign up to figure out where the 12 chickens are! There are universes to save!

A: Suggest a domain name for this site

badpbossoverload.com (available)

the concept is the same!
but it has a boss. nobody likes bosses
indeed they all tend to die sooner or later
I just un-stroke-out the bit in this question about taken names:
Q: Suggest a domain name for this site

Andrew Possible Duplicate: Write an Elevator Pitch / Tagline Note: We are closing this domain naming thread. It is asking the entirely wrong question. See this blog post for details: Domain Names: Wrong Question We're going to keep the name gaming.stackexchange.com. But we WILL be setting ...

I mean, if it's taken, it's taken
squatted domains are all for sale really (except maybe if you consider typosquatting domains)
→ rollback if required ←

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