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7:00 PM
@BobCross Are you gonna keep modding with a passion here? You two have been doing it for a long time on this site.
And Mark I guess I don't see him around much though.
Last seen Oct 14
He did visit the election, so he knows it's going on.
(says my drone)
Last review task performed October 6 at 20:44 UTC.
Oh I forgot the pro tem mods had to re-run.
Yes, that's right.
@BobCross and @MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop are both in the race.
Mark performed a binding leave open vote on mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/37100/… on Oct 6 at 20:43.
(says my drone)
My prediction is Paulster, Ducati, and Zaid or Nick, but only because there's often a strong correlation between candidate score and how users vote.
But good luck to you and tlhingan
I expect a smaller correlation on mechanics because everybody knows each other quite well.
7:08 PM
That's true, but it's also a pretty small bubble though. Answering activity might have a lot of impact, for name recognition.
@JasonC Oh, I don't really mind if I don't make it. I'd love to serve the community in that way, and I've had some people tell me I'm cut out for the job, but it's whatever the community thinks will benefit them the mots.
I should run my candidate analysis stuff. I do a whole thing for SO elections, it's pretty fun.
Q: 2015 Moderator Candidate Activity Profiles

Jason CI've generated weekly histograms of activity for each of the current 2015 election candidates, combining SO, MSO, and MSE activity. This data consists of the total counts, per week, of publicly available activity (reviews, revisions, comments, posts, accepts, suggests, badges) and is intended to ...

@JasonC Nice work.
hi all
@JasonC why would I stop? My life situation hasn't really changed.
7:21 PM
Hey @Myself
@BobCross Dunno, hence the question :P
@DucatiKiller how are you? (and family?)
It was just small talk. I'm thinking about my votes. There's a few people who have been working hard on this site for a long time I'm wondering if anybody is on the verge of reasonably burning out.
@Myself All is well, hope the same over there.
@DucatiKiller same here, just brought the older one to bed.
@DucatiKiller How is your new job?
7:24 PM
Interesting to say the least.
Manufacturing is a different world
Oh yeaaaah I forgot you just got that job.
Good interesting, meh interesting, or bad interesting?
Good interesting
Too much to describe or summarize at this point. I'm still taking it all in.
But we demand a detailed status report.
7:28 PM
@JasonC Give the man a break! :)
Not enough data to analyze at this point. Too many moving parts.
I'll give an Executive Summary in a couple of weeks. I'll even do a Power Point Presentation.
Election promise?
I re-read my humorous jest and realized that that wasn't a funny joke. Too bad my think-post routine is running in reverse order.
@DucatiKiller And that's the point when I get sleepy
7:30 PM
@BobCross Ready, Fire!, Aim?
That's exactly what I was about to type!
Proper radio procedure: think, press, talk
Safety first.
Q: What a warm welcome this user got :(

Move More Comments Link To TopPlease remember to give new users a little time and encourgment when they don't put enough information in the post. I know we need more information to help but honestly if I was this person I'm not sure I would bother now or ever come back to the site. Please remember the only way we can grow is ...

I'm discombobulated because a real life project is threatening to send me out of the country again. Dudes! Just got back! This building is full of people. There's no one else that can do the thing at the place?!
7:36 PM
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop I think we could have welcomed them better for sure as they are new but I can see how that question got thrown in the trash pile pretty quick.
@DucatiKiller But new users don't even know how the site works yet. Some don't even know the relevant information we need to solve the problem. This looks like we slammed the door in his or her face
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop Totally agree. It would have been nice to ask them a couple of questions first and seen if we could have helped him fix the question.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop there are times when I wish the chat was more obvious. As in come on in and let us help you write a good question.
@BobCross I think I should add that to the Red Carpet meta post
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop But new users do know how to use the caps key. They do know punctuation. Garbage in, garbage out. Personally, had someone swooped in and make those two edits, I think it would have survived longer.
7:40 PM
@DucatiKiller I really wish there was a way to push those types of questions out of the close que, a snooze so to speak that would give the user time to respond. With no update in say 48 hours then close
I'd be game editing it and starting a reopen vote campaign.
Unless you think we've already frightened the user away.
For that particular question, there's not a lot to go on.
Yep. One could only hope that, with the question reopened, the user would engage the community and add more content.
@BobCross Yes....it's a dog with one leg. I don't even want to call it's name and watch it drag itself over....
Q: Helping our new users make the transition

Zaidmechanics.SE is not a forum It's Q&A. Not Q&Q. Nor Q&Commentary. Nor Q&Chit-Chat. The seasoned SE veterans understand the rules, but the new users don't and we ought to help them make a smooth transition. I'd like to use this Meta post to highlight to the new users what they should understand ...

7:42 PM
That being said, would have been nice to see someone assist them as a new SE user
@DucatiKiller gross. Now I have a picture in my head. You are a thought criminal and should go to mind jail.
@BobCross Agree but the culture here seems to be drifting toward closing instead of taking the time to wait for the user and or try to help. Again no response in 48 hours it should be gone
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop you don't have to convince me. We sing the same songs on this subject. That particular one was a particularly bad one.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop I dunno, that one's a bit more than "not knowing how the site works" and crosses into "not realizing that people aren't psychic" territory.
Btw, pity upvotes break the system.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop guys do you have stats on new users? I think what's happening is that after graduation many veteran SE users joined and brought along their respective SE cultures with them
Even the cat question got closed
7:45 PM
You might be able to pull some stats. What are you looking for @Zaid?
@Zaid Your cat question?
@JasonC That wasnt' a pity upvote. It was intended to encourage the user, not discourage them. We should treat new users like guests
The flip flop lady
7:45 PM
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop That's pity. That would not have gotten 2 upvotes if it didn't have downvotes first.
Let's not argue over it. The point is that we muffed up on making that user feel welcome to start with.
@JasonC when a user sees that green square with a positive number, they sit up and take notice
@JasonC If you take your shoes off and leave them at the door at your house as a policy and you have a guest over and they don't do that you don't yell at them and tell them to take there shoes off. You ask them nicely
The new user experience can be difficult to empathize with.
7:46 PM
It's not that we shouldn't close; it's that we shouldn't be tumbling over ourselves to put in the votes.
Here we go again
Bookmark it and keep an eye on it.
For many, they are putting themselves out there by posting their first question. I can remember my first few answers and questions. I felt a little nervous.
Also you have to remember drawing attention to it in a meta post is a good way to amplify the up/down votes, so for that particular question, it's probably not the best example any more, unfortunately.
7:48 PM
Getting any kind of positive acknowledgement can be a real game changer for a new user.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop I've taken the rebuke. I voted to close both the questions in question.
IDK if that question in particular is a good example but.....
@DucatiKiller So true. If I hadn't gotten 6 upvotes on my first question here, I probably wouldn't have been as excited to stay.
Or 4 or whatever it was. :)
I've voted to reopen. I feel that the question is answerable in its current form. YMMV.
Mod tip for those running for the first time: when discussions like this build up steam, it's okay to take a step back and let people chat.
7:50 PM
It's a strange emotional thing for people to put themselves out there.
@anonymous2 That's why I wish we could snooze close votes for new users.
@BobCross Unless you disagree with the people chatting? :P
Hiya JC
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop that's a very good idea to suggest on Meta if you ask me
Anyways if it gets reopened it'll get reopened. Plus it's already got +3 pity upvotes on it. So I really wouldn't worry about it.
7:51 PM
@JasonC my agreement or disagreement has additional baggage. I'm interested in what people think. Everyone already knows what I think.
It's enough for a net rep increase. That user does see a nice green square in their nav bar. Don't forget that.
If I spend a lot of time talking, I won't be spending enough time listening.
There's a reason we have two ears and one mouth.
10 fingers and 2 eyes, lol.
But that doesn't work when your chatting, lol. Because we have... exactly.
7:52 PM
Directional analysis?
It's the "thinking of the next thing to say instead of listening to what the other person is saying" problem
turns on screen reader, starts typing with tongue
I can't bring myself to cast an upvote. The question was junk. He got a free edit :)
@JasonC a new user doesn't even realize that. They see there question closed and negative votes and move on, or at least I would
7:54 PM
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop I'm pretty sure a new user sees the green square in the nav bar, which they see no matter where they are on the site.
The most important thing is you left a nice welcoming comment on that question.
That's the key, at least I think so anyways.
@LynnCrumbling Sure, that's absolutely fine. The point is that if we had left it a bit longer we might have gotten enough information to help this user bring the question up to status quo.
@JasonC green square? You lost me on that one.
That's what'll set this site apart from a surlier one, especially as time goes on and the site inevitably stops being the warm fuzzy tight-knit circle it used to be. You can't do anything about other users' voting actions, but you can totally make a difference in comments.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop Seriously? Go upvote this question temporarily, just enough for me to get a screenshot: mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/37559/…
Right. That question could have taken a different vector.
(assuming that the user participated)
And if that user hadn't participated, we should have closed it.
But only then.
7:58 PM
@JasonC right but they only get that with an upvote and only when on the site.
That's the feedback everybody gets. Green on net increase, red on net decrease. It also draws attention to activity on your posts no matter where you are on the site, you're always greeted with it.
They only see their vote counts when on the site too so that's equivalent. But actually it's not triggered by an upvote it's triggered by a net increase, in this user's case theirs will say +4 until they click it.
A: What a warm welcome this user got :(

anonymous2Rebuke taken. I was one of the ones who voted to close, while not one who voted down. And you're right. To produce a more welcome environment, what I should have done is to have dropped a comment asking for more information. I remember vividly my first post on here; what drew me to this site ...

Because they gained 4 points from that question. So, not that I totally don't understand why a negative score on a question looks discouraging, it does get balanced out by some visibly positive feedback.
Life goes on :)
8:01 PM
It's the reward that the pity upvotes gave them.
(Btw I'm talking about this case specifically.)
I really wish SO notified you when a question or answer that you downvoted was edited. Give you that little push: "Hey, this user might have made it better! Go look!"
And your nice welcoming comment more than balances out the negative score. Which is why I keep repeating the same old crap: Use the mechanics properly, the welcoming is in the comments not the votes.
@LynnCrumbling I KNOW.
I feel like I remember seeing that on MSE and it didn't go over well, mostly because of folks not wanting all the extra notifications.
How's NYC this fine ridiculously-warm October day?
I usually star questions that look like they have potential so I can go back and reverse my votes later if needed.
The usual.
Loud as heck.
Is it quieter in the cold?
8:04 PM
But otherwise pleasant, once your brain becomes accustomed to the constant background noise of motorcycles, horns, and Latino pop / bad modern hip-hop.
@LynnCrumbling Agreed.
The motorcycles are less in the cold.
Same with the open windows + music.
How about open Windows + music? ;)
That's precisely what's happening for me right now, lol.
That's very quiet. Except, of course, all the complaints coming from the person sitting in front of the computer waiting for it to turn on. ;)
8:06 PM
The internal screaming is deafening.
Actually I'm still holding on to Windows 7 so I'm not screaming at my computer too much just yet. Give it a couple years.
Yes, wait till you're on 10.
You'll switch to 16 pretty fast.
Er, 16.04LTS.
I've got 16.04 on here too in case I need a breather.
I've got 10 somewhere around here. Haven't used it in a bit: I just use it when I feel like everything is going bad.
So that I can feel that things aren't going quite so badly as I thought.
I spec'd out a machine for a project yesterday and I specified Ubuntu just for a change of pace, it will be a nice project.
Sounds fun!
8:09 PM
I so can't wait to not be a programmer any more.
I always end up being the IT guy for projects, too. Because incompetence everywhere. I hate it so much.
And the clients, who make me travel 2 hours for a face-to-face meeting (because why use technology) just to have yet another read-aloud session of emails I've sent them dozens of copies of over the past N years.
@JasonC that is the opposite of everything I've ever said about my career. Interesting how people look at the same thing and see differently
@JasonC You should get a kick out of this. One of our medical directors who is old as dirt and a great doctor, got an email he was excited about and printed it off and faxed it over....
Yeah it is interesting.
That's awesome.
@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop He didn't snail-mail it?
@JasonC The comms part is where the pain is for you?
8:13 PM
No it's
I should clarify: I so can't wait to not be a freelance-programmer-working-for-fine-artists-in-nyc any more.
@anonymous2 He was excited so he wanted to make sure we got it now. I wish I was kidding... Again a great doctor, not so much on the computer
@JasonC That's shorthand for No, it's nothing. ;)
It's definitely a project-related issue.
@BobCross that's especially for you: eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
When I was doing R&D in medical robotics that was super fun. And that job's waiting for me if I ever go back to Pittsburgh. And I'd be down with it.
8:15 PM
@Myself dude the evil overlord list is older than dirt. I remember when it was short! ;-)
But right now I basically write screen savers for a living. It's mind numbing. @BobCross What do you do?
@JasonC I burned out on consulting in general. It's just another side to a coin though. Now, I have a grip of internal customers, rather than external, to deliver <insert thing> to.
@JasonC stuff. And things. I've linked to it in the past. I think I come up when you google "Robert cross javaone"
I do like working with architects. But when their project management is off the entire project becomes a shitshow that no human should be subject to.
@DucatiKiller Yeah I think I am feeling the burn-out now too.
@JasonC Burnout makes everything terrible.
@JasonC I'll watch Ice Cream melt before I eat it when I'm cooked.
8:18 PM
Yeah. It's like my brain turned off, too. I can't focus, even on things I know are easy for me.
@BobCross Well I tried, I thought it fits you :)
@BobCross NUWC Bob Cross? Think I found you on LinkedIn.
I do stuff like, uh, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bay_Lights, I did all the control software, general system design, and some IT work. And it looks fun at first glance. But really, it's awful. All my projects are like that. The only up-side to what I do is sometimes I get to hang around on cool construction sites.
Incidentally if you're ever in SF and you want to impress your date, ping me on chat and I'll turn the lights off on the bridge for you, lol.
@JasonC I will call that in.
Oh wait. I can't right now. Because remote access is down. Because the idiots who had one freakin job -- to set up a VPN -- were supposed to do it last November and just gave up. And so we've got an AT&T hot spot and total lack-of-security. And the data plan ran out. And they're sick of paying for it. And now for some reason it's my problem to solve.
And so I probably have to fly out there, enable the freakin' VPN on the switch like a grown up, and waste 3 days doing absolute stupid crap. Hence, the burn out.
You could go there for 5 days, spend extra time finding a new job and never go back to NYC.
8:23 PM
Because apparently CalTrans doesn't have one qualified IT person working for them.
I thought about it.
But the guy:girl ratio in SF is way too high. Still it's about the only west coast city I could live in.
SF = Different World
I visited the Google offices there once. They're freakin awesome.
You are surrounded by Berkely, Oakland, Redwood City, Cupertino, Palo Alto and Santa Clara. SF is a microcosm surrounded by microcosms. You should check it out.
Well, I'm headed out. See you all around. Have a great one.
@anonymous2 Cya
8:26 PM
@anonymous2 Take care Mr
@DucatiKiller I start to dream...
It's a beautiful dream
@JasonC Plus, there's this to dig into.....
Off topic but when I was there I met this lady who used to be the director of DARPA. She was freakin' awesome.
8:27 PM
Ridiculously intimidating, in a great way.
Sounds excellent.
Love super intimidating strong females. Lot's to figure out.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_E._Dugan she's a VP of some crazy advanced engineering thing at Google now.
Also her and her posse spend their time travelling around the world randomly looking for cool tech art to fatten up then feed to Google. It's kind of great.
They had actually this really cool thing I wonder if they started marketing it yet. It was this iPad app where like, the were stories, like short stories
But you navigated through the story in 3D by walking around and looking for things, it used the GPS and the accelerometer on the iPad. It was a really cool idea.
That sounds good. I want her job
I know right.
Sadly she did not get to where she was by sitting around on the couch ranting on SE chats all day.
Yeah, that's too bad....
8:33 PM
Speaking of which. I'm going to go at least be somewhat productive today. Maybe I can tie up invoices or something. I dunno. Whatever. Later.
I dated a gal a few years ago that worked at the genomics project here in Phoenix. She was above underling. Anyway, she ground me up and used my bones for bread.
I would imagine this google gal would do much the same...lol
@JasonC Later
I've got at least two loaves of my ... bone bread ... in possession of a couple ex's out there. Or something. That sounds gross and wrong. So I'll just leave it on that note.
This seams incorrect. I thought it was 25K for site analytics after graduation.
I guess I should post a link
8:50 PM
@DucatiKiller They haven't realigned the rep count for privs yet.
That won't happen until we get our new facade.
And we have a new one to improve: mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/37574/…
Then my "149 away from mod tools" becomes 8149 :(
9:07 PM
@Myself That's a real beauty.
@LynnCrumbling for some reason I thought it was 25K for access to stats post graduation
@DucatiKiller it is. At least on SO
I thought I had to have 10K during beta to get access....
Please use this reference to optimize your question: meta.mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/1460/…Myself 1 min ago
I hope this comment is adequate, what are your opinions about it?
That works
Teach a man to fish.....
@DucatiKiller, I threw you a vote!
Do you get to see the votes at all?
9:21 PM
@JPhi1618 Do not see the votes. It's a mystery.
@JPhi1618 Have you turned in your VW and gone though the process yet?
No, the court case was today for final approval - need to see what happens with that.
The buybacks can start Nov 1st at the earliesdt.
I have all my paperwork turned it, so hopefully I'll be near the front of the line.
I was obviously under the impression that was finalized.
@BobCross, do you use gradle? Do you use anything for continuous integration (Jenkins)?
Have you figured out what the replacement ride is yet?
Since I do so much work on the house, I think I'm going to get a truck.
Like a 2005 Silvarado crew cab or something.
9:24 PM
I love my truck
I need to figure out if ford, dodge, or chevy are any easier to work on than the others..
What do you have?
Toyota Tacoma TRD
My son has a Ford F150 and a Ranger
My dad had a Silverado.
Nice, I've kinda crossed Toyota off the list because I feel like they will be too expensive (good resale value and all), but I'm open if I find a deal on one.
I won't work on GM products any more. They're a pain in the ass with their fancy special tools
Ok, that's the kinda stuff I want to know...
9:26 PM
I'm totally happy to work with the kid on his Fords though
Does toyota have any diagnostic software publically available?
Or ford or chevy, or do you know?
Nothin I've been able to find but oddly enough I haven't checked the torrents
I've always stuck with VW because of VAG-COM.
They all have their advanced codes that map specifically to their vehicles
makes sense
Cool, just popping in to say hey... Gotta make my way home.
Cya. Good luck!
9:27 PM
take it easy
Going to bed, cya
9:58 PM
Cya @Myself
@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Anything exciting?
Not really.
You get rolling with the new job?
Yes, halfway. Few hours here, few hours there.
Better than a kick in the pants, but I bet you'll be happy to be fully employed again.
Sure, I'm just happy though, pretty much. I am fully employed though. I'm just slowly integrating into the team.
I'm working on all kinds of little and big projects that have been gathering dust for years.
Good deal. A new job can be challenging, but I take it you know your crew to some extent and the boss you like, so it's all good.
10:05 PM
Engine rebuilds, fiberglass cracks, clogged up carburetors......I'm basking in it.
rebuilding this CB900C has been a bunch of nostalgia. Worked on a grip of these back in the day.
Sounds like fun. I'm sure it's bringing back a lot of great memories for you as well as renewing your knowledge of things.
It is
I"m watching WWI documentaries working on projects. It's been a really nice break.
I need to work on the Subie ... probably not going to happen until Friday, though. I have school tomorrow night and then the daughter has a concert on Thursday.
@DucatiKiller - Is it you just have more time because work isn't soaking up all of it, or ??
10:11 PM
I haven't fully taken over my responsibilities. I'm just going into a few meetings. I'll integrate in over the next two weeks and then be spending 40 to 60 hours a week working. Right now, I'm enjoying the last of my break between jobs and working on stuff.
A: Is there a rule of thumb for estimating volumetric efficiency?

NetdukeIn modern cars, wide open throttle at peak torque should be roughly around 100% VE. If you know how much fuel your are burning, and it is burning at the standard 14.1:1 ratio, you can calculate the mass of air. This is how many car computers fine tune the MAF sensors automatically. Basically bur...

What do you think about this answer?
I would surely love some kind of proof concerning the first sentence of it ... I have some real doubts, even in modern cars. I could see 90%, maybe? But nearly 100% ... I'd need some proof. JMHO, though.
I need to run. Have a sick woman I need to get food for.
Catch up with you later.
10:32 PM
@DucatiKiller - No worries. I hope she feels better. Have a great evening. I'm happy you decided to self-nominate.
@JPhi1618 hey. Yes on Gradle and yes on Jenkins. Also yes on SonarQube because I hate human code reviews.
@JasonC, yes. It's bad form to explicitly link you're goofing around online with your employer (at least when your employer is my employer). Better to have at least some distance, even if it's not much.
Of course, where I work is a matter of public record. Even some of what I'm working on is out there since I show up on official sites every now and then.
10:50 PM
@BobCross, yea I wanted to use SonarQube. Someone was trying out findBugs in our build.
Have you compared the two at all? Use anything other than Jenkins? Like Go, COncourse or Jenkins Pipeline?
11:11 PM
@BobCross Ha, it's funny, I'm the opposite. I have to plug myself as much as possible to keep the work coming in, it's become habit. Something I will absolutely not miss about not being freelance any more. Ah to have a secure job...
11:36 PM
@JPhi1618 sonarqube is a superset of findbugs. It's better and gooder
@JPhi1618 way back in the day we used cruise control. Jenkins is better and sufficient so we've stuck with it forever.
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