The Pitstop

4:14 PM

@Vikas No, but it is more and more common, especially in larger bikes. And on large bikes, cut-off on fall-over is common

Vikas

5:30 PM

I got a new bike last year 3 months ago. It's 110 cc Honda bike. It didn't have any side stand indicator or engine cut off sensor.

Now, in 2022, Honda updated all their entry level bikes in India and added this engine cut off feature. When you try to put gear and side stand is still down, it will shut down.

The bike model I have also got this new update this year. Now I'm feeling bad that I should have waited 2-3 months so I would have got this feature too.

When I asked others, they said yes it's very useful feature and most bikes have it. So I'm feeling even more bad now.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas that's a pretty small bike. I don't have any bikes smaller than 400cc with a side-stand cut off

It is entirely unnecessary, so don't worry about it - it's a luxury item, really

Vikas

Yeah it's entry level bike used only for commuting. But I felt surprised that Honda added this feature in their each and every bike this month. I mean I don't blame Honda... it's good feature but you know, I feel I'm left behind others

Rory Alsop

You should always check it's in neutral anyway, both using the dashboard neutral light, if your bike has one, and by slowly releasing the clutch while the brake is on to see if it tries to move the bike

Vikas

Yeah a friend also suggested same that just make a checklist before you ride and then start bike.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas never compare with others - that doesn't do anything other than make you feel you need to catch up. And that goes for anything in life - what others have is irrelevant to your happiness

@Vikas that checklist is part of getting your licence here - if you don't do all the checks you will fail your test

Vikas

5:34 PM

@RoryAlsop Oh. You mean the ride test you do when before you get license?

I hate authorities here. They are not strict. Getting license is very easy here.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas Here in the UK it is much more than that - there are multiple parts. Theory, risk assessment, specific tests in the compound, then tests on the road, and that is just to get your basic licence, which you then need to sit another test within the next 24 months if you want to have a bike lecence.

And that only lets you ride up to 125cc - you need another course and tests for a big bike licence

Which does help make sure that riders here have a reasonable set of skills

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Yes, that's why I sometimes like western countries more than my own country.

@RoryAlsop we have same license for all type of motorcycles.

For 50cc they have different. But that law is outdated. 50cc hardly exist now. Authorities don't update laws

Rory Alsop

@Vikas I was lucky that I grew up on a place where there were no real roads, so no real laws on motorcycles - so I learned to ride at a very young age. But very glad of the training I had to sit back in UK to get my first 750cc bike, and now I have a 1900cc bike that would be scary had I not had some of the emergency training.

Vikas

May I know why you mentioned it btw? Yes I have "N" indicator in instrument panel. But suppose if bike like mine don't have side stand sensor/engine cut off and I forget to up the side stand before riding, I might meet accident?

Did I misunderstood something?

Rory Alsop

@Vikas That is unlikely to be something that would ever happen, and in fact that isn't what the sensor is for - it's so you don't put the side stand down while the engine is in 1st, and let go the clutch by mistake, letting the bike zap forwards, or starting the engine while in 1st, with the same result

Vikas

5:41 PM

@RoryAlsop Yes riding bigger bikes I guess is not easy. I saw a video where they say at slow speeds heavy bikes turning requires efforts.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas it requires practice - not necessarily effort once you learn how to do it, and trust the lean

Vikas

@RoryAlsop I will see that when I can afford it (10 years later maybe) :D

Rory Alsop

I mean my biggest bike weighs over 500kg when loaded with luggage - so I do take care when really slow...

Don't want to drop it

It's very hard to lift it back up!

Vikas

Mine has only 116 Kg weight. And I was overthinking before buying it that it might be too heavy for me.

I have this in case you wanna see picture: images.carandbike.com/bike-images/large/honda/livo/…

Rory Alsop

@Vikas it's very like this one

951661 - 2011 Harley Davidson CVO Ultra Classic FLHTCUSE6 - Used Motorcycle For Sale

►

Vikas

5:44 PM

No way

Rory Alsop

@Vikas That's a great bike - will get over anything

Vikas

@RoryAlsop ?

Rory Alsop

your Honda - great bike!

Vikas

@RoryAlsop yes, but it's only for commute

Rory Alsop

@Vikas heh - I commute on my Harley - it's perfect for the windy roads here

Vikas

5:45 PM

And since I'm new rider, it's good enough for me I think

@RoryAlsop I get it now

Rory Alsop

I have one of these for adventure riding - but it's very old now

databikes.com/infophoto/yamaha/750_super_tenere-1998.html

And one of these for the rest of the family to learn on until they get their full licences (very like yours)

thebikemarket.co.uk/yamaha/ybr/ybr125

Vikas

I quite don't get it. What I understood it is for is this: You sit on bike and forget to fold/up the side stand in it's default position. Then you start engine and as soon as you put the 1st gear, engine will stop! So basically it's alerting you to up the side stand before you ride so you don't meet any accident.

Did you mean something different?

Rory Alsop

@Vikas That's really not what it is used for, no

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Wait I'll verify :D

Rory Alsop

It's to stop you doing something when the bike is on its stand

Vikas

5:48 PM

@RoryAlsop I like this because it's of my type

@RoryAlsop It's for city riding I guess?

Rory Alsop

Putting your side stand up is pretty much automatic - as soon as you come off the stand (ie put the bike upright) it will retract. All bikes have a spring loaded side stand

The thing you don't want is to have the bike on its stand and have the engine running when not in Neutral

A side-stand cutoff stops you doing that

Vikas

I read the brochure of some 125cc Honda bike and it says:

SIDE STAND ENGINE CUT OFF

Adds to the safety of the rider,
it cuts off the ignition if the
vehicle is put in gear when
the side stand is engaged.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas exactly - that's what I am saying

Vikas

Now I'll try to understand what you said

Rory Alsop

The only time that is a risk is when you have either stopped, and put the stand down, but try to get off while the engine is running; or you start the bike when it is in gear on the stand

Vikas

5:53 PM

6 mins ago, by Vikas

I quite don't get it. What I understood it is for is this: You sit on bike and forget to fold/up the side stand in it's default position. Then you start engine and as soon as you put the 1st gear, engine will stop! So basically it's alerting you to up the side stand before you ride so you don't meet any accident.

Did you mean something different?

Rory Alsop

But honestly, the best check when stopping is to hold the brake and slowly release the clutch to confirm neutral

Vikas

I think I did a typo there

Rory Alsop

Or when starting the bike, start with clutch in

Vikas

@RoryAlsop I'll rephrase: What I understood it is for is this: You sit on bike and forget to fold/up the side stand in it's still down (that is bike can still stand if you are not holding it). Then you start engine and as soon as you put the 1st gear, engine will stop! So basically it's alerting you to up the side stand before you ride so you don't meet any accident.

Did I state correctly now?

Rory Alsop

But that isn't something that happens

Vikas

5:55 PM

@RoryAlsop Like we don't forget side stand folding up? I think it happens here. We don't have automatic "go up" side stands

We have to push it upside with foot then only it goes up

I think we got confused/misunderstanding there

Yes it has a spring but you have to give it some input

Rory Alsop

Okay, but that still is not an issue - if it was down and you are riding, if it touches the ground it will be pushed up

not a real risk

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Cool. So the next bad thing can happen is engine is in 1st gear and then you lower the side stand or it goes down automatically by some jerk/speed breaker, that's when the sensor will cut off engine?

Rory Alsop

Yes - again, a side stand should not be able to go down fully (the sensor is unlikely to trigger until the stand is all the way down)

Vikas

@RoryAlsop LOL how is it different from what I had explained 🤣

Rory Alsop

@Vikas Because that is not a risk

In fact cutoff during riding is likely to be more dangerous - thankfully it wouldn't happen as you cannot get your side stand down fully while riding accidentally

The risk here, as I have stated twice, is not while riding - it's when starting the bike up, or getting off it while the engine is running

@Vikas it's 100% different

Vikas

6:01 PM

@RoryAlsop To save the petrol and engine running in vain?

Rory Alsop

@Vikas no

Vikas

lol

Rory Alsop

to stop it moving forwards

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Cool. What happens if it moves forwards?

Rory Alsop

Bike on side stand - moves forwards - falls over or crashes into something: damage

not good

Vikas

6:02 PM

@RoryAlsop I totally get it

@RoryAlsop And that's the purpose of the sensor? Right?

@RoryAlsop I think I get your point now. There's slight difference what I stated and what you're trying to convey

Rory Alsop

@Vikas erm...100% difference. You are worrying about a risk while riding. The sensor is to stop you having an engaged gear while the bike is "parked"

You are worrying about the wrong thing

Vikas

Should I ask a question on main site about this?

I'm not sure it would be on topic or not

Rory Alsop

@Vikas You probably could, but I don't think it's on topic, and we have covered it to death already

I'm not sure what you find difficult about it

Maybe you should just think through what would happen in each case, as I have described, and think about what ones would actually need to be protected with a sensor

Vikas

@RoryAlsop I guess I mean same

Rory Alsop

Riding and having your stand come down during your ride is not going to be helped by a sensor at all

Being stationary and thinking your bike is in neutral, either when getting on or off, is a bad thing

Vikas

6:12 PM

Well the same example you gave comes to my mind:

You wake up. You got to your bike. You sit on it. It's in neutral. You start bike engine. The stand is still down. You put 1st gear and release clutch! That's when the sensor will work to save you?

Note that bike isn't riding at this moment.

@RoryAlsop Makes sense

@RoryAlsop True. That's what I didn't mean

I will assume I understood your point ;)

It's not gonna save me while the bike is riding.

It's gonna alert me before I start the ride

But the other thing you said that side stand goes up automatically when you make bike straight - I think it's not true for all bikes.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas that's fine - you need to kick it back a bit on your bike? Then the spring holds it up

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Exactly

Rory Alsop

On mine I need to do something slightly the same - that first inch is done by me, then it is pulled up by the spring

@Vikas not an issue

Vikas

I will do research about it :P And come back later: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/60231742#60231742

Rory Alsop

6:27 PM

@Vikas you don't need to

No research required - this is just how things work

Vikas

No I'm not saying you're wrong

Rory Alsop

Stop worrying about things that are irrelevant - especially as your bike doesn't have the cutoff switch - just get used to using checklists -much more useful than anything else

Vikas

It's just that I can't digest it very well still. I mean not understood fully. I will try to imagine some scenarios.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas borrow a friend's bike

one with a cutoff

see what happens

Or just try riding without the side stand up

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Yeah not worrying now since you said it's like a luxury. It's just that I want to go into details now :D

Rory Alsop

6:28 PM

You'll know instantly

It will retract with a bang as soon as you hit any stone, or try a left turn :-)

Vikas

@RoryAlsop it will stop!!!!!! For sure!

Rory Alsop

could be exciting

it won't stop you

Vikas

Engine will stop?

bike is stopped. I mean engine will stop

Rory Alsop

no, because you don';t have an engine cutoff

Vikas

lol

I mean the other bikes that have this feature

Rory Alsop

6:30 PM

I said "or just try riding without the side stand up" and meant on your bike

Vikas

@RoryAlsop yeah - So in that case there are risks that my stand will touch the ground.

Isn't it?

Rory Alsop

I'd be very surprised if you could do it, but it will be fun - give it a shot

I can not imagine anyone riding away with the side stand down

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Wait

Rory Alsop

I think you are just trying to overthink everything again

Vikas

@RoryAlsop quora.com/… (Just give a quick glance over the answers)

@RoryAlsop No. I have facts :D

Rory Alsop

6:33 PM

@Vikas read M. F. Fanelli's answer

says it all really

@Vikas I don't think so

Vikas

@RoryAlsop It (the side stand) will touch the ground when I cross the speed breaker. You don't think that's possible?

Rory Alsop

@Vikas what does that mean? What is a speed breaker?

Dan's answer on that post is also about stationary bikes

Vikas

@RoryAlsop You don't know it?

Rory Alsop

@Vikas Anything is possible - but it's not a real risk.

@Vikas We have a language difficulty - I understand you are not a native english speaker so I'm trying to understand what you mean by a speed breaker

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Here it is what I mean: resize.indiatvnews.com/en/resize/newbucket/715_-/2020/01/…

We have a lot of speed breakers on roads. So I meant that my stand can touch the uneven ground or most likely the speed breakers

Rory Alsop

6:36 PM

@Vikas honestly, I wouldn't want to ride or drive any vehicle over them, as I would expect them to damage it

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Yeah maybe the risk is very low. That's what you want to say.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas that is what I have been saying from the very start

Vikas

@RoryAlsop lol, you will find them everywhere in India. Even in streets we have big speed breakers so that someone doesn't enter near houses

@RoryAlsop Yeah got it. But I will still study the main aspect of the sensor that you explained. Like how and when is it supposed to work.

Rory Alsop

@Vikas We have speed humps (also called sleeping policemen) in the UK, but they have much gentler sides, and are much lower than those - and if they are installed too big, folks usually remove them or sue the local council for damages to their vehicles

Vikas

@RoryAlsop If you wouldn't ride, you won't reach anywhere here.

Rory Alsop

6:39 PM

@Vikas I'd probably get a much bigger adventure bike - maybe a 1200GS, or an Africa Twin - something with decent shock absorbers

Vikas

@RoryAlsop We also have those too.

@RoryAlsop Just to ride on those speed breakers? 🤣

Rory Alsop

@Vikas Cerainly wouldn't take my Harley there - and I've had it in the air over humpback bridges, scraping metal through tight corners etc

Vikas

@RoryAlsop Imagine riding here: thelogicalindian.com/h-upload/2020/01/27/…

Rory Alsop

@Vikas I've seen too many videos on motomadness to want to ride there. Even when I have had to work in India I have always had a driver, as the chaotic nature of the traffic there is too much for me

youtube.com/c/MotoMadness

Vikas

Riding is not easy here.

If a foreigner comes here and try to follow all rules, he is more likely to meet an accident :P

Riding is not easy here (comparatively).

Anyway thanks we had a nice discussion

Transcript for