The Pitstop

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

12:01 AM

@DavidLively - I finally got that, lol.

David Lively

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 :) It's probably in poor taste. Oh, well.

Bob Cross

12:10 PM

Bring a child to work day here today: I have my jellybean machine well stocked so that kids like me the best!

NitrusInc

12:21 PM

Morning All. ... So... New-Guy Issue again... Does this site inherently frown upon questions with more than one solid answer?

Bob Cross

Can you be more specific?

NitrusInc

Probably not. No.

If I have a question which has numerous answers, is it inherently not for this site. given the fact that this site centers around "The Answer"

I guess the best way would be for me to say the question is "Whats for dinner?"

That question has numerous answers.

I am asking due to a specific query, but that kind of makes it only about that specific query, which doesn't answer for the future.

I posed a question about diagnostic procedural lists. Meaning numerous lists could all be individual "answers"

So there's no "The Answer" to click on... Which I now realize kind of goes against the point of the site.

Bob Cross

We do have survey questions that are effectively wikis on topics like "What are the core tools that an amateur auto mechanic should have on hand?"

10

Q: Car enthusiast beginner tool kit

What is a good place to begin building a kit/set up for performing your own service? For example: oil changes waxing detailing What are the best tools/equipment to start with?

NitrusInc

It seems like stuff has to have a Solid Q and A format where there's a single question with a single correct answer.

Ooo... Ok.

Bob Cross

I would say that there is room for flexibility, especially if the situation has several distinct possible solutions.

NitrusInc

12:32 PM

Do I just click on the bottom of the post to make it a Wiki, or do I need to do anything different?

Bob Cross

You can if you want. I would just post it and see what happens. If you'd like to preview it here, we can often help with format and content.

NitrusInc

Thank you.

Bob Cross

Any time

NitrusInc

So... I attempted to find the "Make this a Community Wiki" Check-Box/Radio-Button I swear I've seen before... But I couldn't find it when editing the existing post, so I decided to make a new post... And I can't find it there either... What am I missing to make something a Community Wiki?

Bob Cross

Why don't you leave it as is for now. If there are enough edits to a question for a lot of different people, the community wiki tag will be applied automatically.

If you post a good question, I certainly don't have a problem with you scoring some rep for it

NitrusInc

12:37 PM

Oh... Alright. Thank you.

NitrusInc

1:54 PM

Well... I cleaned it up to be more like a wiki/list and got twice the close votes for being broad.

Lol

Nick C

@NitrusInc I don't have a problem with the type of question, but I think the scope is far too broad - It's almost like asking "How do you fix a car"

I think it'd be better to break it down into several more specific questions

NitrusInc

Hey.

The intention is that it be broad

It's intended to be a collection of lists of different procedures

I'm intending on making it a wiki

I was hoping others would contribute, but I'll get to it when I can.

Nick C

I still think the scope needs to be narrower - perhaps split into modern digital/bus type ones and traditional analogue?

as the procedures fore each are very different

in the same way that telling someone how to fix their carb won't help if they've got EFI

NitrusInc

My original Post listed 12V systems. I figured making it more broad would illicit less complaints

I'll list 12V

Nick C

ah, I didn't see the original!

Yeah, I thin kthat would be better

NitrusInc

2:08 PM

I've always found that people get upset when you get specific as it gets people into debating details.

I figured I'd leave it up to the answers to stand on their own

"This is how to diag xyz"

Which would hopefully be written in a way where it was, at least, implied what it was relevant for.

Nick C

hmm - I tend to find, on here, that the opposite applies

A lot of our questions tend to be more of the form "these are the symptoms, what could be the cause" or "I know this is the problem, how do I fix it?"

Though we have had some good questions of the form you're suggesting

I've reopened yours for now, see what the community thinks...

Have you looked at some of the past troubleshooting questions

?

For example, this one (mine, it turns out! From about 3 years ago...)

11

Q: How do you test analogue electrical circuits?

When trying to diagnose problems with conventional analogue electrical circuits, such as lights, speakers, heated rear windows, etc, as well as short-circuits and unexplained current draws, it can be difficult to track down the exact source of the problem. What is the best way of doing so?

lights fuse electrical multimeter

This one from JMort253

16

Q: How To Get Organized Without a Garage Workspace?

People I've seen who have garages have it made. They have a clean, dry workspace with all of their tools within arms reach. In the most organized garages, a mixture of rolling Snap-on Roll Cab with Drawers and pegboards helps create an organizational paradigm that lets the do-it-yourselfer focus ...

troubleshooting tools

and one from DucatiKiller

14

Q: How do I troubleshoot the source of oil in my coolant?

I would like to know the step by step troubleshooting procedure for discovering the source of oil appearing in coolant. There are several different points of failure that can be the root cause for oil in coolant. What are the various points in an engine that could be the source of oil appearin...

engine oil coolant troubleshooting cooling-system

NitrusInc

2:49 PM

I took a look

I'll just take the downvoting in hopes someone else finds it useful to have a list of procedures available in one place.

David Lively

3:08 PM

NitrusInc

Based on a comment, I'm clearly being misunderstood. The format of the site allows for each answer to have it's own separate thread, so each answer could be a procedure, and any information to add to said procedure can be a comment in that thread. Is there a better way to do this without posting it as a question?

Users would then be able to link to said procedure, which would reduce the repetitiveness of answers on break fix questions.

I'll add that to the question.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@NitrusInc - Since this is a Q&A site, not seeing as how it could be anything other than a question.

Nick C

@NitrusInc That's not really how it works, though I'm not sure how to explain it

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

This is something I've seen before where there are two different cars, with different issues, yet the answer itself is the same. IMHO, if the question is different, then the question needs to be separate, even if an existing answer covers the problem.

@DavidLively - ROFLMBO ...

@DavidLively - I quit.

rofl!

Ceshion

I mean I guess you could print out some physical representation of the blockchain, take a picture of it, embed the image file in an HTML document and then something something bitcoin

NitrusInc

3:20 PM

Im not trying to be dense here, but if it's about fixing issues, why wouldn't we want a list of procedures which are performed generally based on situations?

If it's a policy situation I understand

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@NitrusInc - Because it doesn't fit the StackExchange format?

NitrusInc

As in you're not allowed to do it.

That's fine.

It uses the functionality of the site.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

How?

NitrusInc

I'll delete it.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@NitrusInc - Tell me of the functionality of the site which will allow what you want to do.

Ceshion

3:24 PM

I feel like that kinda would make sense though? Questions for diagnosing and understanding concepts, then directions to wiki pages for actually fixing things

Nick C

I think perpahs re-phrasing the question might help

NitrusInc

@Paulster2 The format of the site allows for each answer to have it's own separate thread, so each answer could be a procedure, and any information to add to said procedure can be a comment in that thread. Is there a better way to do this without posting it as a question?

Nick C

rather than "list the procedures", something like "What procedures could I use to diagnose a problem with a car's 12v electrics"

@NitrusInc Answers aren't supposed to be a separate thread - comments are supposed to just be for clarification or suggesting fixes for answers

we have a flag "Comments are not for extended discussion, this has been moved to chat" (though we don't tend to need to use that as much as some of the other Stack Exchange sites do)

Ceshion

@NickC that's probably just because of the lower population I'd imagine?

NitrusInc

The thing that gets me is the site is coded to allow for more answers, meaning the answers can be separate threads. Again policy is a different story, and I understand.

If I'm not allowed to do something ,I get it, and I'll drop it.

Nick C

3:28 PM

@Ceshion maybe - our answers tend to be more concrete than some

Ceshion

that's true-- as opposed to politics.se where someone posts an answer and about 20 people comment because they didn't like the answer

Nick C

@NitrusInc have a look at the questions I linked to earlier, and some of the others in the 'troubleshooting' tag

@Ceshion what's exactly what I was thinking of

NitrusInc

Just figured we'd exploit what the site allows to make things more streamlined. I mean I'd obviously want to have a nice collection of procedures, for my own sake, but just saying.

Ceshion

A politics.se answer: "basically I'm a liberal"
20 comments: "how dare you"

NitrusInc

I looked at the links, I didn't understand what I was looking for

Nick C

3:30 PM

@NitrusInc Yeah, I see what you're trying to do, just trying to help you mould it into something that fits better in the SE format!

NitrusInc

I don't see how it would be allowed if it follows the status quo

I kind of get that going into it.

Nick C

@Ceshion even worse if someone posts something non-liberal!

NitrusInc

I was intending on it being a wiki though, which I don't know anything about.

Ceshion

Another politics.se answer: "basically I'm conservative"
20 comments: "how dare you"

the formula is pretty much the same

NitrusInc

I assumed that there was a wiki section so it could have information that wasn't in the format of Q&A

As I mentioned earlier, I swear I saw a button to make said "Community Wiki"

Guess I am delusional, lol

Nick C

3:33 PM

@NitrusInc Not at all!

Ceshion

but also what is it called when your political views are just "don't be shitty to other people and also maybe help them out sometimes"

Nick C

the wiki thing refers to indiviudual posts, not a whole question/answer group

TBH we don't tend to get many here, some of the other sites get a lot more

outdoors get a lot when people post things like "what equipment should I take for X activity"

Ceshion

There /was/ a wiki they were trying out on SO, but I'm pretty sure they axed it

NitrusInc

@NickC that's pretty much where I am going with this.

Nick C

@Ceshion Yeah, a shame as that'd be great for us, for exactly the sort of thing @NitrusInc is trying to do

and @ducatikiller used to do

Ceshion

3:36 PM

yeah- I think the meta post about it basically said "it's not what SE is for"

it would have been nice I think though

Bob Cross

@Ceshion sadly, there are words in the political space that have left their actual meaning behind. Now they're just tribal markings.

Ceshion

@BobCross that's true, I mean if you just went by the words themselves they're not even opposites

Nick C

@NitrusInc Somethimg like this? outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/4647/…

Ceshion

but they are now because the words are just words and people like to oppose each other for some reason

Nick C

@NitrusInc ah, this is the one I was looking for - top answer is a wiki

52

Q: A list of suitable foods for a long hike

In my opinion, the priorities when selecting trekking food are: maximizing calories per kilogram not easily spoilable, especially in hot weather reasonably priced variety throughout the trip I'm posting to help build a wider variety of ideas. I would like to see as long a list as possible of...

food thru-hike

Bob Cross

3:39 PM

It also assumes that you can distill a complex ideological framework down into a single word.

Nick C

@BobCross the worst for that is left/right wing - most parties don't fit neatly into either

NitrusInc

@NickC that's exactly what I am trying to do.

Bob Cross

Which, btw, is one of the main reasons that we've always pushed political talk away from this SE. It's obviously off-topic and there's almost no way to communicate effectively. Ergo, hurt feelings, nonsense and BS. No thanks.

Nick C

@BobCross yup

NitrusInc

Just allow everyone to put in their procedure lists for stuff. Whether it uses the Q&A or the wiki format

Nick C

3:42 PM

@NitrusInc Does this question not fit with what you're wanting then?

11

Q: How do you test analogue electrical circuits?

When trying to diagnose problems with conventional analogue electrical circuits, such as lights, speakers, heated rear windows, etc, as well as short-circuits and unexplained current draws, it can be difficult to track down the exact source of the problem. What is the best way of doing so?

lights fuse electrical multimeter

NitrusInc

-1

Q: Electrical Diagnostic Procedural Lists

Post your general/specific Testing/Diagnostics Procedural Lists for Automotive Electrical Systems. These procedures are intended to target vehicles with modern 12V systems. The format of the site allows for each answer to have it's own separate thread, so each answer could be a procedure, and...

electrical troubleshooting diagnostics testing multimeter

Other examples would be O2 sensor, sensors in general, with the expected values.

So for one person to have info about everything is unlikely, but if each person contributes the electrical diag procedure and info they know/have, it becomes a central source

That was the other thing I was hoping for... Comments could be made like "I've seen it as 8-10v for Nissan's"

Nick C

Yep, I now understand what you're trying to do - my question now is how is that different from my 2015 question?

NitrusInc

Because there's no target details.

It's the physical action of how to perform the test but now how to gain information needed on good or bad.

It's like saying "use a scan tool" I know that the scan tool will handle it, I don't know how.

I really can't explain myself any better

It should be thought of as if someone knows a procedure like a voltage drop test they plop it into that will/post/question

So you'd literally have a long list of procedures segmented

Nick C

@NitrusInc but you still need the connection between procedure and purpose

NitrusInc

The test implies the purpose

How to test if a specific sensor is good would tell you whether it was good or not.

Nick C

3:50 PM

yep, but people need to know that they need to test that sensor ;)

NitrusInc

Each procedure has it's own compact intention

That's the thing... This is for people activity looking for how do something

Not "what's wrong?"

Nick C

in which case, I think each group of procedures needs it's own question - so one for "what procedures could I use to test for a failing battery", another for "what procedures can I use to test for a stray current" etc

NitrusInc

It I started a million posts asking how to check each component with a multi meter, I'd eventually have a list of different procedures.

Nick C

@NitrusInc that's what tags are for

NitrusInc

Seems more efficient to simply take what you can get with a broad quert

With a single broad query

Nick C

3:53 PM

@NitrusInc the problem with that is you end up with one huge list that's very difficult t osearch

Bob Cross

Nick has a point in that each individual issue is actually more searchable. that means that the person who actually has a specific problem is more likely to find something helpful.

Nick C

you don't look for "a procedure", you look for "a procedure to do x"

Bob Cross

Literal google searches are usually of a pattern like "How do I replace my starter motor in my 2004 wrx?"

NitrusInc

L

Typo

Bob Cross

General google users have been trained to type exactly what they want and let google be smart for them.

NitrusInc

3:57 PM

I feel like a lot of people use the find function of their browser, and/or Google would find the long list for you.. but I understand.

Ceshion

what's the rules on links to separate sites again? it's only that you can't link to other Q&A sites, right?

Nick C

@Ceshion they are best avoided, but not banned, as far as I know

avoid anything obviously transient, and quote (with attribution!) the gist of the link

NitrusInc

I'm starting to feel like if it was beneficial, it would make more sense to most, more easily, and be more widely accepted. So that's another negative against it.

Ceshion

I'm thinking you could make a separate site that's basically a generic service manual and then link to that along with your answer- like say "Check the R/R with a multimeter (see {link})

Nick C

@NitrusInc against which, sorry?

NitrusInc

3:59 PM

Against my goal

If you want to call it that.

Nick C

@Ceshion I think that was what the SE blog/wiki mentioned earlier was meant to be for

Bob Cross

@NickC exactly. Your post should stand on its own and make it clear that you are using a specific source for reference. If someone wants to drill down from there, that's their thing. I'll usually have an important pull quote wrapped in some flavor text with the URL

Nick C

but it never got off the ground

NitrusInc

I can't really stress something for the "community" if it doesn't seem to help the community... Then IAM just selling my book

Ceshion

@NickC right, but the official stance does seem to be it doesn't belong here- so put it somewhere else and reference it when necessary

Nick C

4:01 PM

@NitrusInc I think your goal is admirable, it just doesn't quite fit into the SE format as-is - I'm trying to explain how I think it can fit, but I'm not very good at explaining

@Ceshion Perhaps we need a spin-off wiki site

NitrusInc

@NickC you and me both lol.

Nick C

@NitrusInc mechanics and engineers aren't known for their eloqution!

I have to go - chat later!

NitrusInc

Take it easy

I should probably be off too. At the playground with the tot.

Thanks, everyone, for listening to my drivel.

Bewre

Be well*

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@NitrusInc - This is a community ... we are here to listen and to make better. I don't think your goal is a bad one, by far. I just agree with others we'd need to rake it across the coals a few times to come up with a way to do it so it'd work.

Ceshion

6:34 PM

StackHub

StackHeap

throw new SpanishInquisitionException("Bet you didn't expect this");

2

David Lively

7:29 PM

@Ceshion That's awesome.

Should be a t-shirt.

'cause what the world needs now, more than anything, is more ironic technically-oriented t-shirts.

Ceshion

7:40 PM

I thought of a shirt I definitely need to have made- "Trust me, "I'm thinking" is all you need to know" with a loading spinner-- because I was sitting on the couch spinning a nerf gun to help me think and Liz commented it looked like a loading spinner and that a progress bar would be more helpful

Bob Cross

I need a shirt that says this on the back "Please don't bother me unless your hair is on fire and you are about to die."

In fine print under that, it should say "If you poke me while I have my headphones on, you're offering me your finger as a snack."

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

18

Q: Why do car starter motors draw so much current?

I understand that most car starter motors' power is rated between 0.5kw to 1.5kw. Doesn't that mean that they are supposed to draw 40-120 amps? (500 w / 12 volts etc.. )? Yet when they start, they draw hundreads of amps for the split second they run. Why does that happen? Are the motors "overcloc...

car power starter-motor

Two someones have put closed votes on this question. To me it seems to be perfectly valid. The question is over six months old. The person who put a close vote on it stated it should belong on Electronics ... they are fairly new to SE and don't even have an account on Electronics, so they don't realize it would have been migrated over here anyway. If anyone feels this should be left alone, please vote to "Leave Open"

Ceshion

8:08 PM

if (!you.Hair.OnFire && you.Death.Time.Subtract(DateTime.Now).TotalMinutes > 5) me.ShouldBeBothered = false;

David Lively

@Ceshion For some reason, I read that as 'sniffing a nerf gun' rather than 'spinning a nerf gun.' I was trying to formulate a response that wasn't judgemental. :)

LOL.

shouldn't ::OnFire be a function call?

I'

I'd love to see Liz's idea for a prototype nerf progress bar.

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 I don't have enough rep to vote 'leave open' apparently.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Ceshion - That's pretty awesome code right there :)

Ceshion

8:33 PM

it could be, but I would think of the attribute of being on fire as a bool property of something

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

You silly coders ... love you to death!

A flaming death, that is.

Ceshion

David Lively

@Ceshion sure. But, if you set it to true, you probably want to do perform some action, like setting a spark. So, you need a getter / setter (ick, I hate those) instead of a public field.

That's an awesome meme.

Ceshion

I don't know, it seems like there'd be an AttemptIgnition() method that could set it to true depending on other conditions

with an AttemptIgnition(Flamethrower) overload that would definitely set it to true

David Lively

:)

Beer. Spewed. Thanks. My Das Keyboard is less than thrilled.

Ceshion

8:40 PM

<3 you're welcome

David Lively

I got a small four-drawer toolbox for the shed, sized perfectly to fit under a shelf on my workbench. Unfortunately, the drawers won't open unless the top is open. Looking for my angle grinder.

And I just discovered that (duh) if I leave the drawers slightly open before closing the top, the locking mechanism won't engage. Probably easier than tearing the thing apart.

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