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1:53 AM
0
Q: Mhchem not enabled for mobile

ManishearthIt seems that the chemistry MathJax extension isn't enabled on mobile. Code on main: MathJax.Hub.Config({"HTML-CSS": { preferredFont: "TeX", availableFonts: ["STIX","TeX"], linebreaks: { automatic:true }, EqnChunk: (MathJax.Hub.Browser.isMobile ? 10 : 50) }, ...

 
 
3 hours later…
CHM
4:25 AM
@Manishearth no offense, btw.
 
@CHM Oh, I like criticism
and I was being pretty stupid there (sort of initially thought the reaction was redox acidentally, then the image stayed even though I amended that. Boom)
One of the reasons I post is because it helps me learn.. If you check out my answers on Phy.SE, many of them are hatted with "I'm not sure of this; comments appreciated"
I'm probably going to rewrite the answer and undelete (fortunately, we can do that)
@CHM Actually, comments pointing out mistakes are quite common on Physics. An issue which has led to a bit of drama on our meta :/ (a high rep sometimes posts "this is wrong!, delete it!" without explaining what is wrong )
But a normal "This is wrong because of blah/This is wrong, see my answer for details" is perfectly OK
 
5:15 AM
@Fabian Feel up to self-nominating for pro tem here?
 
@Manishearth I'm already a mod on two sites, I think that's enough for now
 
@Fabian Too much to do, not enough time, eh?
Got any idea who would be a good mod here?
2 nominations isn't exactly good--we need at least 4
bare minumum 3
 
 
2 hours later…
7:25 AM
@Manishearth - hi there
 
Hello! :)
 
@Manishearth - is it possible to migrate a question of mine from phys.se to chem.se?
specifically:
4
Q: Do amorphous metals undergo conchoidal fracture?

Richard TerrettAmorphous metals are often referred to as metallic glasses due to their quenched atomic disorder. Do they fracture in the same fashion as silicate glasses? If not, what failure mode(s) do they have?

 
@RichardTerrett Physics mods can do that, but migrations to early beta sites are discouraged, so they might not want to migrate.
 
@Fabian - thanks
 
@Fabian I'll ask David anyway
 
7:38 AM
13
Q: Striking examples where Kohn-Sham orbitals clearly have no physical meaning

F'xIn Density Functional Theory courses, one is often reminded that Kohn-Sham orbitals are often said to bear no any physical meaning. They only represent a noninteracting reference system which has the same electron density as the real interacting system. That being said, there are plenty of studi...

That is an example where someone from the SE team warned against migration
 
@Fabian Aah.. Missed that one
 
7:52 AM
@Manishearth - I tried continuing that DFT job but I hit bad SCF convergence and I don't really have the patience to fix it
I'm enjoying the fallout of the diablo 3 launch
(servers melting)
people are so angry that they need to wait to get carpal tunnel syndrome
 
8:11 AM
@RichardTerrett Alright, no problem
 
F'x
8:44 AM
@RichardTerrett it is possible, but the current stance from the SE team and the physics moderators is that it is better to post a new question on Chemistry, linking to the Physics one, and possibly editing it a bit so the "chemical" viewpoint is clear
 
@Fx Do you personally think the conchoidal fracture question should be reposted on chem.se?
 
F'x
if you feel you could get better answers, you should… personally, I'm not so sure, chemists tend to suck at these topics :)
 
ambiguine, love it
 
F'x
@RichardTerrett it's not in this list: chm.bris.ac.uk/sillymolecules/sillymols.htm
 
it's on page 2
@Fx I've always enjoyed furfuryl furfurate
 
F'x
8:58 AM
@RichardTerrett indeed, sorry
 
ah, I see they didn't miss sodium ethyl xanthate
I did a froth flotation once
 
F'x
now, a good one: why is the following question tagged ?
0
Q: Temperature of pure oxygen combustion

PeterI'm wondering what the temperature of pure oxygen being burned is.

 
@Fx Ah, I remember that one :D I've got a book on nuclear fusion prospects from the late 70s early 80s, quite depressing really
@Fx Don't ask me, I VTC that one.
 
F'x
@RichardTerrett me too
I also provided an answer explaining why "temperature of combustion" is just not uniquely defined, unlike melting and boiling points
also on the "funny but depressing" side of things:
 
@Fx I don't know why there are 3 answers to it so far, as the question as currently defined is so vague that respondents need to extrapolate meaning out of it.
So now there are three answers to the question 'what is combustion?', which rather fails the general reference criterion
I'm probably being a bit harsh
 
F'x
9:15 AM
@RichardTerrett well, I'll abstain from commenting, as one of the answers is mine
 
@Fx Yeah, i know :)
@Fx Regarding your question about carboxypyrazolate, have you considered doing a linear transit of the bond in question?
 
F'x
@RichardTerrett transit = scanning energy by quantum mech calc?
 
F'x
@RichardTerrett could do that, but it came up in a discussion so I didn't have access to that
I wonder what qualitative reasoning could be followed, as I had no idea at all
 
@Fx I think your intuition is right
 
9:35 AM
This is so weird - pdflatex run through texmaker executes normally but does not write output
 
9:53 AM
resolved by reinstalling
 
 
3 hours later…
12:59 PM
@Rich as always, I won't accept your answer till others have a chance to answer, just a note :)
 
@Manishearth - no probs
hey i just broke 750 rep
@Manishearth - I remember using a portable turbidimeter
quite a nice apparatus
@Manishearth - when I was an undergrad I did a course in environmental chemistry, part of the course is going to a heavily polluted area and taking measurements/samples
in this case, a mine adit
iirc the pH was something like 2.5 at the adit
there's a superfund site in the US called iron mountain where the water pH gets down to -3.6
yes, that's a minus sign
 
Yummy negative pH... Isn't that dangerous?
Thats a LOT of H+
@rich you can now see vote counts and complain about downvotes ;-)
 
@Manishearth - dissolved a bridge iirc
 
@rich /me is scared now
But is it natural?
Or do they dump chemicals in it?
 
1:14 PM
@Manishearth - technically yes
 
Oh superfund
 
@Manishearth - the pH is due to sulfates being exposed by mining
 
Aah
Still, >1000 moles of H+ to the liter... i would think that that's enough to drill a hole to China/whatever ;-)
Atleast dissolve most of the crust
 
the actual meaning of a pH that low is a bit unclear
@Manishearth - oh, i like this bit: "total dissolved solids concentration of more than 900 g/liter. "
 
1:33 PM
So, uh, did we hit 'peak sardines' in the 80s?
 
1:45 PM
@Manishearth - a topic you may be interested in is diffusion limited aggregation
 
2:05 PM
@Fx Hi
 
F'x
2:28 PM
@RichardTerrett hello
 
 
4 hours later…
F'x
6:42 PM
@cbeleites @chm Hi cbeleites, hi CHM, may I suggest that chat might be the easier way of discussing your answers to this precipitation question?
 
 
1 hour later…
CHM
8:12 PM
@Fx Hi.
@Fx Sure.
 
F'x
hi CHM
I hesitated, it's a bit abusing my superping power because I'm not a mod on this site :)
 
CHM
Bah.
I think the question concerning solubility of AgCl can be likened to "what came first: chicken or egg?"
In some way.
 
F'x
I see many problems with this question: first, the reaction doesn't make much sense, because AgNO3 and AlCl3 do not exist as such in solution
@CHM but I think it's not the OP's question
 
CHM
Well, he asked why is there double displacement. Since Al and NO3 are spectators, the answer has to concern AgCl
@cbeleites I'm reading your comments/edits now.
 
Hi there.
Thx. Fx - I thought about suggesting chat as well, but had trouble logging in here.
 
F'x
8:17 PM
@cbeleites hi!
 
Sure. take your time.
 
F'x
so, I'll let you two chat, but I see three important things to answer this question…
1. the reaction is really Ag+(aq) + Cl–(aq) --> AgCl(s); writing it with spectator ions is deceiptful (see how the OP asks “is it because Cl is one when NO3 is multiple”, while NO3 has nothing to do in there)
2. it's not redox, which was already solved
3. why does AgCl have low solubility, which is the crux of it
 
CHM
@cbeleites I think I've been clear on the subject of AgCl's low solubility, by using words like "practically insoluble" or "has a low Ksp". Also, I absolutely agree that Le Chatelier's principle dictates the experiments you propose, but that's not the case for the initial reaction.
Maybe I could change the wording again, to remove all possible confusion.
 
@CHM: I don't see any confusion there, we agree on those two points.
 
CHM
@Fx Which is a rather hard question, I think.
@cbeleites Well you say that I'm being plainly wrong in your edit, that's why I mentioned.
 
8:24 PM
though I'd see manishearth's invokation of le-chatielier more lenient:...
 
no, the wrong point I meant is the comment that AgCl cannot dissolve again.
 
CHM
@Fx Wonder why I didn't catch this one yesterday.
 
I mean, we regularly did it in our 1st semster lab (distinction from AgI by complexing with NH3)
 
F'x
@CHM PDF here, in case you do not have access: dl.dropbox.com/u/52398724/Liebman.pdf
 
CHM
8:25 PM
@cbeleites That's what I'm trying to convey: I can change my wording, but I thought I was being clear that it was not 100% insoluble, just overwhelmingly insoluble.
@Fx Great, school doesn't pay springer.
I will read this with attention.
 
I got that impression only from the comment .- which I believe you cannot edit any longer now.
Fx thx, paywall here, too.
 
CHM
@cbeleites You mention that you could predict the formation of precipitate by looking at enthalpy of formation and Ksp. I agree on both counts - what I am stressing here is that, to me, the enthalpy of formation is more fundamental than the Ksp. It's probably a philosophical argument.
@cbeleites I've removed it, for the sake of cleaning up the question page.
 
F'x
@cbeleites after you come to a mutual agreement (or disagreement), I suggest you both remove all your comments, edit your posts into two coherent answers (no "Edit" or "Reply to")…
 
sure.
 
CHM
@Fx Will do tomorrow. I have my last exam tomorrow, gneh.
 
F'x
8:30 PM
@CHM alors, je te dis merde !
 
and I'm very optimistic that we'll find an agreement...
 
CHM
@Both When I first came to SE, I was happy to be able to accept answers. Now that I've used it for some time, I think it should be barred. Only upvotes/downvotes.
 
CHM: i completely agree that in the row AgF AgCl AgBr AgI the covalent nature of the bond increasing.
 
CHM
@Fx Haha. Merci
 
as Ag+ is soft that suggests more stable products.
 
CHM
8:33 PM
@cbeleites This I have to catch up on - HSAB.
 
F'x
on an unrelated topic, I encourage you to nominate people as beta moderators
 
(be warned you two: I still remember a bit fo my french - even though it is all drowned after 3 a in italy)
 
F'x
and to nominate yourself, of course
 
CHM
No one has ever mentioned it in class - only in textbooks/literature. Never had an introduction to the theory.
 
you do a very good job with that :-)
 
CHM
8:34 PM
@Fx Oh, is it time yet?
 
F'x
now, in addition to be on top of the community bulletin board, it's pinned in chat :)
 
CHM
Good. Will check.
 
F'x
@cbeleites the only Italian I know is to order wine :)
 
can't you drink french wine ? (I mean, the case is completely different with our german wines, but...)
 
CHM
@cbeleites the author in the paper Fx shared considers Ksp to follow from formation free energy.
I'll read on, and tell you what his thoughts are.
 
8:37 PM
I'm not an expert with HSAB (far from it) but we had it at university. I have to admit that I went for the book to give it a quick refreshment. If you happen to read German: Hollemann Wiberg around p. 250.
 
F'x
@cbeleites never been a great fan of HSAB, but it's helpful sometimes… I only use it for some rough "what would be the trend" estimates
I really think it's not widely taught at all in French chemistry curriculum
 
CHM
@cbeleites I will have to learn, if only to read Einstein, etc. Had one semester of German, but it was pretty basic.
@Fx Neither here.
 
K and $\Delta G^0$ is pretty straightforward: $\Delta G^0 = - RT ln K$
then let's stay English
 
F'x
okay, some more work to do, see you later!
 
CHM
@cbeleites True, but there's more information (I think) in $\Delta G^0$ than in $K$
@Fx Bye
 
8:41 PM
F'x: I wouldn't have dug at HSAB if CHM hadn't argued first (well, HSAB is rather 2nd or 3rd priciples) which took me to the next theory after my completely empirical first approach.
bye
 
F'x
@CHM wait, now I can't leave… why?
 
CHM
@Fx Impression I have
 
F'x: pls explain impression?
I mean, maybe I need to explain that I'm probably a very experiment-oriented person with respect to the stuff we discuss here. I work on theory (and like it) but it is not theory about ab-initio chemistry, but theory about statistical analysis of experiments (I'm analytical chemist).
 
F'x
@CHM well, given that the two are related by a simple equation, I don't see how one has "more information" than the other…
 
CHM
As I said, it's just an impression I have: $\Delta G = \Delta H - T \Delta S = -RT\ln K$. To me, entropy and enthalpy are "more profound" or "more fundamental"
It's really not something I've thought through - show me the light if you can. It's only an impression I have.
 
8:45 PM
(And maybe my mood is still influenced by a lab student I recently had who had a very good grasp on theory but his mindset was that there's no need for the experiment as there is already a theory. )
I take them all three as pretty fundamental.
 
F'x
enthalpy and entropy, yes: as you decompose G into H and S, you gain knowledge (the balance of the two)… but K and G are the same
the equilibrium constant K comes from G through statistical mechanics
 
CHM
@Fx We saw that, this semester, but in a very accelerated pace.
We were on strike 5 weeks, had to cram that into the past 2 weeks, didn't go so well.
 
You'll gain the information if you look at the T dependence of K
:-(
@CHM: where are you?
 
CHM
Yes, I'm probably wrong in my impression. Maybe the proof just didn't get to me.
@cbeleites Canada.
But I have to agree that being related so simply and beautifully.. it's a bit hard to argue in favor of one over the other ;)
 
:-)
(and: Hi to Canada - like many Germans, I like Canada very much - actually spent a winter working in Winnipeg once...)
 
CHM
8:50 PM
I think I'm biased towards a thermodynamical view of problems. Fx, you already corrected me in another question, when I relied too eagerly on $\Delta G_F$
@cbeleites Hi to you too. I've never seen Winnipeg. I'm in Montréal.
 
F'x
@CHM well, I do teach stat phys to chemists, and statistical thermodynamics, so I am biased towards thermodynamics too :)
 
:-)
I like it almost as much as spectroscopy ;-)
 
F'x
but thermodynamics is a bitch, because you need to define things very very precisely (what's your system, what's your process, so on)… and it's easy to get lost even if you know the path you want to walk
 
CHM
@Both I'd like to continue talking, but I have to go as well.
Exam tomorrow, and I've already spent enough time on my "break" ;)
Have a good night.
 
F'x
@CHM see you
 
8:54 PM
OK. I'll be having a long weekend from tomorrow. shall we try to discuss the points at some time?
I mean those of AgCl - I still didn't understand the arguments why it should be unsoluble.
(That's also why I stuck with the plain measurable fact of pK...)
CHM: you can send me an email - address is in my profile
I'll try to clean up my answer while my computer is still computing...
 

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