The Periodic Table - 2015-09-17 (page 1 of 2)

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3:43 AM

0

Q: American vs British spelling: Is there a standard? Should there be?

The only mention of this that turned up in a quick search was a passing mention three years ago. I've just encountered a pending edit on this question where the editor tidied up the question with MathJax and such, but also proposed to change favored to favoured. My habit when I make edits is t...

discussion editing formatting

1 hour later…

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

4:59 AM

@Mithoron Hehe at first look it looks like spam.;)

Martin - マーチン

5:36 AM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

6:11 AM

@Martin-マーチン You're lucky I'm not on my laptop.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bombard me with Smiley's, for I'll return in full strength.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M (∪｡∪)｡｡｡zzzZZZ

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Mock me while you can earthling, for I'm not futile enough for your jokes.

Martin - マーチン

6:46 AM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M ( ¬ ‿ ¬)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW some chars are invisible here. ;)

1 hour later…

8:11 AM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M ಠ_ಠ

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M y u no have superior smartphone with all the symbols? ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Because .

that's always a good reason

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yep.

BTW @santiago is no more. :O

I'd miss him.

o.o

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

O.O

8:23 AM

I thought he would leave the chat and will not log in for a while ... or don't talk too much ... but completely deleting the profile is hard

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Dunno what happened to him.

He suddenly went all defensive and offensive as if we were looking to kill him.

60-70 % survival chance sounds like a quite hard sickness

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

?

he wrote that a) in his profile and b) here in chat, if I remember correctly

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh.

That seems bad.

8:37 AM

seems like

o/ @Wildcat

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M here

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You were searching this whole time?

whoooole time ... not

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm, meta seems quiet. :/

it's quite quiet for a while, isn't it?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's because I'm not with my laptop.

8:44 AM

no laptop no cry

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And all of the profile pics are white.

nokia 3310?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's a lenovo tablet. The problem is with the browser.

why not simply change the browser?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

One does not simply change the browser.

8:49 AM

meh ...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

... hem

9:49 AM

Cześć! @Mithoron

@pH13 Cześć, polish letters - nice ;)

hehe

Ivan is answering many questions these days

Yes, very active, wonder for how long

10:04 AM

me too

I wanted to get to 2000 to edit questions and do not have to wait for someone approve it :P

Hmm, and I didn't answer almost a month. Maybe I'll catch up...

maybe you should

make it so!

:)

But still I voted and flagged quite a bit :)

sure :D that's often way easier ^^

10:24 AM

Yeah :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:47 AM

Back to laptop.

ಠ_ಠ

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 Just Feynman, not Bohr/

̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•_•)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

@Martin it's smiley time. >:D

there is a fight about that

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin ಠ_ಠ

@Martin ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M en.wikiquote.org/wiki/…

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:49 AM

@Martin ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

@Martin ̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•_•)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

@Martin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Martin – =͟͟͞͞ =͟͟͞͞ ﾍ( ´Д`)ﾉ

@Martin (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

@pH13 The "Bohr paraphrase" argument is weak.

it's not that important who said it

the phrase itself is important

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin May I throw more pings and emoticons at you?

@Martin ^

^ @Martin

@Mart ^ in

So, @pH13 I have a question.

simply ask it

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sigma bonds can be s-s, p-p, d-d etc. right?

yes

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:02 AM

So, how can I know what two AOs formed the bond by looking at its structural formula?

do you have a special example in mind?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Say, propane.

s like sigma - you need at least some s content

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

The "at least" and "at most" bother me.

We can draw something for propane:

       H   H   H
  H - C - C - C - H
      H   H   H

So, is the C-C bond s-s or p-p or what?

sp3 but not exactely

11:07 AM

telling me that hybridization is bs and then using it :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nooooo . . . don't sell me hybridization!

He, he :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But it's sp3 for all of the carbons I guess.

sure it is

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So?

There's s character and p character.

11:10 AM

When I think of p-p or d-d sigma bonds, I think of linear molecules

because there it is quite easy to imagine

two p_z or d_z^2 orbitals, etc

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm . . .

So you're saying it's s-s? But then it could be s-p.

no, it's s and p in propane

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So how do you tell without looking something up?

Hides

o/ @Martin-マーチン

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Runs away

11:12 AM

points with finger on @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

hydrogen is using only s

@Mithoron but it's about the CC bond

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Wait lemme think why I'm asking this in the first place . . .

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M :D

@Martin-マーチン why do freq calcs take so much time? what's so ultra hard about them?

Martin - マーチン

11:14 AM

hmmmm

never really thought about that

analytically takes long, but should be still quite fast

often it takes at least as long as the optimization itself

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 Shh my question first.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M How come you suddenly talk like beginner ;)

Martin - マーチン

you have to derive your wave function twice for each basis function you have

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Mithoron So what's the answer? KTHXBAI NEEDZ FOR HOMEWERK

11:16 AM

ok ...

Martin - マーチン

at least that's what i think

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Ahh, I need this to understand conjugation better @pH13 @Mith

it's good possible .. will look it up

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M conjugation in propane?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No, conjugation generally.

Martin - マーチン

with the optimisation, you only have to find a good guess for your orbitals and updating this with new nuclear coordinates should be fast

11:18 AM

Well in molecule there are molecular orbitals - not s or p

Martin - マーチン

scf converges faster with already converged orbitals for a diferent set of coordinates

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Mithoron I want to know what the two first AOs were.

I don't care about the MO.

You can imagine that they arise from two sp3 orbitals but before reaction those weren't there

Martin - マーチン

what's your question @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M?

@Martin-マーチン it started here

20 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sigma bonds can be s-s, p-p, d-d etc. right?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:22 AM

20 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So, how can I know what two AOs formed the bond by looking at its structural formula?

Martin - マーチン

hmmmm

@pH13 no that's incomplete @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

High five @pH13

@Martin-マーチン etc.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M you cannot

you can guess though

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

How?

Martin - マーチン

you need to know which ao are available for each atom

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:24 AM

Half-filled = available?

Martin - マーチン

?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Empty, filled or half-filled?

Martin - マーチン

No... all ao empty and filled

you can ignore the core

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm.

That's what I thought. Next.

Martin - マーチン

and everything after the valence

and then you start constructing symmetry adapted molecular orbitals

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:26 AM

Symmetry adapted?

@Martin-マーチン I've got bad memories to those lessons shiver

Martin - マーチン

you can mix s and p on the atoms to do directions and stuff

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Even when the two atoms are not the same?

Uh, the normal bullshit.

But in large molecules, that'd be messy . . .

Martin - マーチン

well if the molecule has no symmetry, then you don't need to be concerned about it

C1 is also a symmetry :P

Martin - マーチン

11:27 AM

that's why we use localised orbitals to have an easier picture

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

k.

So if I want to see if cyclohexene is conjugated, what do I have to do?

Start playing with hybridization?

Electron configurations?

Martin - マーチン

@pH13 I disagree ;)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Not studying this stuff in English is breaking me. :/

@Jan? @Jan!

Good day @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M @Martin-マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_system

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:30 AM

Welcome back!

Haven't been here in a while xD

Had good holidays ^^

how could cyclohexane be conjugated?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 I'm already studying that.

@pH13 I'M TRYING TO SEE IF IT IS OR NOT. SHEESH.

@Jan How're you doing?

We missed you.

Awww, thanks =*,...,*=

> In chemistry, a conjugated system is a system of connected p-orbitals with delocalized electrons in molecules with alternating single and multiple bonds, which in general may lower the overall energy of the molecule and increase stability. Lone pairs, radicals or carbenium ions may be part of the system. The compound may be cyclic, acyclic, linear or mixed.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:32 AM

@pH13, @Jan. @Jan, @pH13

> Conjugation is the overlap of one p-orbital with another across an intervening sigma bond (in transition metals d-orbitals can be involved).

but isn't that enough of a rule to "find" conjugation?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M thank you

Yeah no, it was kinda … I was away in … was it late June? … still trying to get my enthusiast’s badge on German (got it now) and after I came back I just struggled with workload, workload, workload and catching up with the old questions on German. I caught up yesterday xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Welcome.

Martin - マーチン

Did y'all know you can still ping dead accounts :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan German Rush™

@Martin-マーチン Yep.

Just pinged him a while earlier.

11:34 AM

Yeah, I read the old pings but for some reason I didn't feel like the ping requested my presence xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan No, we didn't mean you. Someone else.

You're not dead, you're undead.

Martin - マーチン

I would say alive

Also, I can't work today .__. The stirring bar decided it didn't like my flash, the flask now has a hole in the bottom shaped like Pacman and my reaction was all across the hood … and has been cleaned up now.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン Alive? :o

I would re-start it, but I need more protecting group .__.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:35 AM

@Jan BTW someone needz your halp.

4

Q: What angle limits should apply to Graham condensers?

I have seen Graham condensers set at an angle (perhaps as low as 30 degrees from horizontal). I guessed this wouldn't be a problem because siphoning would clear the condensate. But I recently saw an argument that Graham condensers should only be used at near-vertical angles. Thinking harder th...

This OP has some lab questions.

@Jan sounds like much fun

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Thoughts you'd be the best to answer @Jan.

I have no clue on the Graham condenser question; I don't think we have that specific kind here (from what I can tell in the picture).

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well he has some unanswered stuff, take a look.

Skimmed across most of them, passed on most ^^'

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:40 AM

→ 1 message moved to g-block elements

@pH13 private chat room? x3

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BWAHHAHAHHA

@Jan There is a cat café in Helsinki? I have been many times in Helsinki; how could I miss this?

@Loong okay … not like I did xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@feetwet your best chance is to nag @Jan into answering your questions. Runs away

11:42 AM

Oh yeah, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, when did you reverse your name? xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan It's been some time.

Some @Loong time.

Martin - マーチン

wow... that's a new low...

Ouch =D

long long time ago

back in the old days

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Before we became idiots . . .

11:46 AM

In a long forgotten era in a faraway land …

That ended with the End of a Era \m/

Hello @wild o/

Hi @Jan and everyone!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Who's everyone? :o

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, someone's everyone.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I guess it doesn't differ for cats.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, yeah, humans are all the same for us.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:53 AM

But I'm a molecule! ಠ_ಠ

Martin - マーチン

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Not all humans are the same … some never open the fridge, right?

@Martin-マーチン flip tehm tabul!!!!!!!!11111!!!!111!111

@Jan, right. Bad humans.

@Jan the WAT?

11:57 AM

@pH13 The fridge. Because cats usually like those humans more that open the fridge for them and that pet them.

*pets @Wildcat *

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan If you want markdown to render, the asterisks shouldn't be between spaces.

@Jan purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I precisely didn't want Markdown to render there xD In fact, I think I put \* there, so it wouldn't ;)

I was so close to going to Helsinki's cat café on Monday but alas, it's closed on Mondays .__.

@Jan There is a cat café in Helsinki? I have been many times in Helsinki; how could I miss this?

@Loong It's rather new. Maybe that's how?

Fredrikinkatu. Between Kamppi and Kakkugalleria.

@Loong you sound a little bit like we're similar people; do you like metal? =D

12:06 PM

@Jan maybe; thanks, I will check

@Jan twenty years ago, yes; now I am probably to old to enjoy it

@Loong you're never too old to enjoy metal ;)

@Loong one is not simply too old to enjoy metal

user image

I feel old.

I like this movie ... one of my favorites

I feel old … without my PhD …

12:13 PM

oh, please, no

@pH13 Yes, it is very nice. But the story is predictable.

don't remind me about PhD

@Wildcat This sounds like I want to hear what you don't want to say, but at the same time I'm too scared to ask =O

Martin - マーチン

nighty night y'all

@Jan, don't ask, don't tell. XD

12:15 PM

@Wildcat Good that you didn't say 'don't touch', too. *pets*

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:26 PM

@Bon I'd like to elaborate my meta answer to yours, but first I'd want to know what I should add.

Why do you think you should've flagged as VLQ but not NAA?

@pH13 I'm too old to enjoy metal.

What's MathJax for =/= ?

for beauty

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I thought you were still at school?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M esp. you, yeah xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan I am.

12:31 PM

So you're contradicting yourself.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Use ≠ instead.

@Jan Nope.

You say you be too old for metal but that isn't possible xD

@Jan he just says, that he does not like it

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No, I actually want to use it in MathJax in a post on chem.SE xD

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Use ≠ instead.

But it should be \neq, IIRC.

12:33 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Thanks =3

"\neq" or "\not ="

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan It was? ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

@Jan see also

1

A: Formatting Sandbox—please test stuff here

Miscellaneous signs and symbols $a$ is equal to $b$ $$a = b$$ $a$ is not equal to $b$ $$a \ne b$$ $a$ corresponds to $b$ $$a \overset{\wedge}{=}b$$ $a$ is approximately equal to $b$ $$a \approx b$$ $a$ is asymptotically equal to $b$ $$a \simeq b$$ $a$ is proportio...

and new

MathJax/(La/Xe)TeX help

If you have any questions about MathJax formatting used in che...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K guys, I'm off to Kung Fu guys. TTYL

12:40 PM

Why should I use a formatting sandbox if I can see te formatting below the text field? ;)

have fun

Have fun, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan You dont have to use the sandbox, but you can find my MathJax examples there.

@Loong Oooh, that's what you meant ^^'

There we go, given an answer.

An answer a day keeps @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M away?

keep trying lol

12:50 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It is an attempt at an answer but in my opinion it is very low quality because it's poorly written (and so difficult to understand), has little explanation and is wrong.

o/ @Todd

hey @pH13 - hi @bon @Jan @Loong

how's your code running @pH13?

@ToddMinehardt hey

fafoom? have not started to dive into it
but guess sth else ...

Hi @ToddMinehardt o/

1:02 PM

hey hey

1:15 PM

@Todd let's move to a place where not everyone get's annoyed by my linux problems xD

→ 9 messages moved to faf(r)oom for Todd and PH13

thanks for moving that stuff, appreciate it

@ToddMinehardt no problem

Wow, I love it when there are two answers to a double-digit voted question and I hack mine in and get almost instantly accepted D=

with luck you'll get badges for sth like that

1:26 PM

No, there's no badge for 'be the third to answer a question and get accepted' xD

there is at least one for getting higher votes than the accepted answer

Oh yeah, I do wonder … @Martin-マーチン who was removed, and why of all things did that give me a -2 reputation change?

probably santiago

as his account got deleted, all his votes were going with it

does anyone know if santiago is ok? his departure was rather abrupt

Santiago left? D= =O

(No wonder the homework questions are left untackled …)

1:32 PM

xD

I guess he is not really ok, as he said sth about a serious sickness

yes, saw that, was wondering if he had shared any information or was planning to return assuming he got better....in any event, unfortunate

nope

2:30 PM

And another homework NMR vampire strikes! Also hi @SanchayanDutta

Anonymous

Hi

Hi

@Jan circle vampire

bad circles vampire xD

@pH13 I should besiege him to eradicate his lowly clan!

you meant lol-y clan

2:45 PM

Leave the lolis to me!

3:04 PM

Things you find on aviation.SE: bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29126161 I love the world <3

xD

Martin - マーチン

3:22 PM

I do not think that santiagos votes are gone. He handed out too many of them, deleting all those would have a serious impact on the community.

hm ... but isn't that how the system works?

Martin - マーチン

yes theoretically it is... but there are exceptions

No, I checked it on the help centre. Mods/admins/somebodies can choose to not delete people's votes if they delt out many.

Martin - マーチン

most of the deletions are handeled on a case by case basis

oh, great

Martin - マーチン

3:30 PM

it depends on the impact it might have on the community

he had close to 4k votes

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

yes

So who got deleted to give me -2? I'm still confused about that number …

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Jumping in the conversation was never fun-er

It's always fun ;)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

3:30 PM

@Jan Your suggested edits are gone.

then maybe someone else was deleted ... I had only a few de-repz

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I didn't have any.

Martin - マーチン

I looked into that, but I cannot tell you more

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It must be the edits you suggested on user15489's posts.

:)

Martin - マーチン

3:31 PM

typically that is the amount you get when you got an edit approved

Ooooh, that makes sense!

Cheers =3

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Or should we call him he who must not be names version 2?

Martin - マーチン

but that should only go away when the post is removed

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン It also goes away when the author of the post is no more.

Martin - マーチン

i don't know... but it's just 2 that's a little funny

3:33 PM

what's the next simple question I can answer to get many upvotes ... someone should ask about ... er ... I need another Acid accident treatment ಠ_ಠ

Martin - マーチン

maybe it was some one-timer who was deleted in the process

I didn't suggest too many edits I think ...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 How to dissolve 5 people in -1 seconds?

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M do you have a link for that?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

:o

3:34 PM

I got -14 by "user was removed" ... like a question and an answer upvote ... but it was earlier shown as many -2s ... so maybe a few approved edits from a while ago

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You expect me to find something in that trashland @Mart?

You're so cruel.

Martin - マーチン

i dunno

you just sparked my interest

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I must be a legend. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M that will make it

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M yeah I guess somewhat

3:44 PM

Does a spoiler tag not work with numbered lists? Why not?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Let me see.

@Jan It works.

Martin - マーチン

the spoiler tag has quite a few problems sometimes

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You can do >! 1. or 1. >! if you wish.

Martin - マーチン

you might need to use trial and error

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Oh wait, you're right. Let me find a fix.

3:49 PM

Only the second worked the way it should, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Yes I noticed.

It's the only thing you got. :/

If anyone feels that the NMR-vampire question could be phrase even better, feel free to do so ;)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Jan Oh wait, you can put >! before each line. It will work.

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Transcript for

Sep '1517

The Periodic Table

Haikus are awesome / Chemistry's even better / So pull up a chair

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