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02:00 - 16:0016:00 - 22:00

user228700
2:57 AM
Hello everyone :-)
 
user228700
I have a quick question related to the VSEPR theory. While writing the structure of molecules such as $XeO_2F_2$, which has the see-saw shape, how to ascertain which two atoms occupy the axial positions and which two atoms the equatorial positions..?
 
user228700
(BTW, @DHMO: You saved my life by explaining Lewis dot structures to me. I couldn't thank you enough)
 
user228700
3:38 AM
Also, isn't Ozone an exception to the octet rule? Seeing as Oxygen is capable of expanding its octet, shouldn't the central atom be bonded to both terminal oxygen atoms via a double bond each?
 
user228700
4:22 AM
Been working out problem after problem and it's going great! Getting close to 95% :-D (@DHMO)
 
user228700
4:47 AM
Is anybody interested to discuss hybridization in molecules?
 
user228700
I have a small question...
 
5:50 AM
0
Q: Incorrect formatting in the Automatic Table of Contents (MS Word 2007)

CopperKettleI've created an automatic table of contents in Word 2007, and discovered that some (not all) of the long (two-line) subchapter headings have no ..... sequence before the page number. Like this: There should be a line of dots that would position the page number (214) on the right margin. W...

MS Word is tough to handle sometimes
 
@CowperKettle In your format template for the table of contents, where is your first tabulator?
Something like 25 mm or so?
When you found the value, go to the format template for the table of contents, and set the hanging indent to exactly that value.
 
6:16 AM
@Loong I've no idea! Where should I look for it?
It's like Chinese to me
@Loong How do I go to it?
OOPS, need to go for a while
BBL
 
Hm, I have a German user inferace for Word here. And also the user inface is different for the various versions of Word. In particular, it became terrible with Word 2007.
 
user228700
6:48 AM
Erm, I've got a quick question; what are free radical compounds..?
 
@Kaumudi compounds with unpaired valence electrons
 
user228700
@Loong OK, thanks :-)
 
@Kaumudi For example, try to write the Lewis diagram for nitric oxide (NO).
 
user228700
@Loong Yeah, OK.
 
7:17 AM
@9-BBN If you can make it, I can name it. ;-)
@9-BBN If I got you right, you are making 1,1-bis(4-methoxyphenyl)-2-(2-methyl-1,3-dioxolan-2-yl)ethan-1-ol.
 
8:05 AM
@Loong I didn't make stuff, but you still named it ^^
 
@orthocresol good morning :-)
 
Morning!
Gotta listen to lectures... Should not be here. Haha
 
:-D
 
8:25 AM
I found out that it must have alighned to the left tab stop
I mean, the "412" number
If I remove that tab stop, the whole table of contents becomes disfigured
Is the only solution just to put the cursor before the page number and press TAB?
I wonder why in some two-line subheadings no such problem occurred
 
@CowperKettle Do not remove that tab stop!
Just find the value for that tab stop. Maybe 20 mm.
 
@Loong I did, but CTRL-Z saved me
 
@CowperKettle You can double click on the tab stop mark and see the tab stop position.
 
@Loong How to find it?
@Loong Thank you!
 
It could also be given in another unit, maybe 72 pt.
 
8:30 AM
It's 3.01 cm
 
@CowperKettle that sounds like a rounding mistake in Word, but that doesn't matter now
@CowperKettle Now you need to find the formatting template for the table of contents.
 
Hmm... I google for it but no luck
 
@CowperKettle I guess, in the English version it's called "Styles list"
 
@CowperKettle Yes, that seems good. You need to find the "Modify Style dialog".
 
8:36 AM
@Loong It's when we create a TOC from scratch
> 2. Launch the Styles Pane (using either the dialog launcher or the keyboard shortcut Ctrl Alt Shift S).
Dialog launcher? O_O
The shortcut works not.
 
@CowperKettle :
That should open such a list:
 
yes, thank you
 
@CowperKettle Ok? Then you need to find the style that is used for your table of contents.
 
oh..
 
There may be several styles, one for each level of your table of contents.
 
8:45 AM
yes, I found them
 
@CowperKettle ok, then right-click on the style in the list and click "modify"
 
modify tabulation distances?
I see nothing wrong with them. I like the tabulation actually.
 
@CowperKettle No, do not change the tab stops!
 
@Loong ah. what might I change?
 
user228700
I have a quick question; is anybody familiar with the concept of the steric number?
 
8:49 AM
@CowperKettle Can you find the tab stop at 3.01 cm also in that list?
 
user228700
Anybody?
 
@Loong Yes, found it (0:
@Kaumudi Sorry.. :(
 
@CowperKettle good. Then go to the "paragraph" settings for that style.
 
user228700
OK :-( I guess I'll wait for @DHMO and see if he/she knows.
 
@Loong and turn "hanging indent" off?
 
8:54 AM
@CowperKettle "hanging indent" is good. Set that to the same value as your tab stop. (3.01 cm?)
 
@Loong done
 
@CowperKettle then click "OK" and let's see
 
@Loong ha! Now if the line is shorter than this indent (for example, the short subheading titled "ELISA"), its page number is not aligned!
LOL
a bag of bugs
 
@CowperKettle If you made the correct settings, it should not be possible that there is text on the left side of that indent. Can you show a screenshot?
Like this one before:
 
user228700
Hey @orthocresol! :-) Do u have any time to help me out a bit..?
 
9:03 AM
 
@CowperKettle I see.
 
@CowperKettle Please go back to the "paragraph" setting where you set the "hanging indent".
 
Okay, at least now I know where to fiddle
okay
@Loong I'm there
 
@CowperKettle For the indent, is there a value for "left" and/or "right"?
 
9:05 AM
 
@CowperKettle I thought so.
@CowperKettle Set that 1,5 cm to 0 cm.
 
Okay
 
@CowperKettle and make sure that the hanging indent stays at 3,01 cm
Then click "OK" and try again.
 
@Loong ELISA's page stays misaligned
But now my level 3 subheadlines are more to the right than level 2 subheadlines
 
@CowperKettle I think, I know why; but could you show a screenshot again?
 
9:11 AM
@Loong screenshot of what?
 
@CowperKettle like this one:
 
@Loong It's the same
Only it moved to the left
I returned all settings to baseline
Need to translate some texts today, no time for dealing with this Microsoft Monster ():
Thank you for guiding me!
I know where to adjust settings now
BBL
 
@CowperKettle ok, then the left indent has to remain at 1,5 cm and you have to reduce the hanging indent by that amount: 3,01 cm - 1,5 cm = 1,51 cm.
 
Hey @Cowp and @Loong, whatcha doing/breaking?
 
@Rubisco He is trying to break his page layout in Word, and I am trying to make that worse. ;-)
 
9:19 AM
Nice. Break all teh wordz
 
It's actually quite easy. But I cannot see what is happening on his system, and I cannot change the settings for him.
 
@Loong vote stats plz kthxbye
 
@Rubisco 180
 
Freaks out
Rethinks nomination
Can't withdraw, darn
 
Naturally, it is slow now. Only about 10 votes in the last 24 hours.
 
9:36 AM
@Kaumudi Hi, sorry, busy for the next few hours...
 
@Loong who do you estimate to be elected?
 
user228700
@orthocresol Oh, alright, NP :-)
 
@Loong Sheesh, closed the tab. It sounded viciously entertaining
 
@Rubisco That's hard to predict since the majority of voters is not active in chat or on meta. So we don't know what they would like.
 
@Loong That's why I'm asking you
@Loong Oh damn
. . . I misclicked while picking the chiral thingies.
 
10:45 AM
@Kaumudi after teaching you Lewis structures, ironically I got the answer wrong on a question about expanded octet on a test I just had
You pinged me before; are your problems resolved now?
> Steric number is the number of atoms bonded to a central atom of a molecule plus the number of lone pairs attached to the central atom. The steric number of a molecule is used in VSEPR (valence shell electron pair repulsion) theory to determine the molecular geometry of a molecule.
 
I want to unsee this question. Also, chitin is quite durable, so the prospects are bleak. — Ivan Neretin 6 mins ago
 
@Loong WTF is that question.
I need to see something pleasant immediately.
 
11:00 AM
 
=\O.O/=
 
Q.E.D.
 
11:16 AM
Is it worth telling this guy about how he can improve his grammar?
 
11:27 AM
@orthocresol Is it ever?
 
I don't know. The question is useful.
I just edited it. If I were to comment explaining how to improve... it would be longer than my answer.
:/
 
Thank you good sir
 
Converting a,b-unsat ketones to alkenes is surprisingly difficult
 
user228700
@DHMO Oh :/
 
@Kaumudi are all of your problems resolved?
 
user228700
11:37 AM
@DHMO Well, I was wondering whether or not this rule works all the time since I have only just been introduced to it. My textbook says that I can't use it when dealing with free radical compounds and molecules with odd number of electrons but that's pretty much all it says. Are there exceptions to this rule as well?
 
@Kaumudi what is "free radical compounds"?
The VSEPR theory is, unfortunately, another failed theory, so it is useful only to covalent compounds with each atom being in period 3 or less
 
Radical compounds that cost no price, obviously.
 
user228700
5 hours ago, by Loong
@Kaumudi compounds with unpaired valence electrons
 
@Kaumudi for example?
Valence shell electron pair repulsion (VSEPR) theory is a model used in chemistry to predict the geometry of individual molecules from the number of electron pairs surrounding their central atoms. It is also named the Gillespie-Nyholm theory after its two main developers. The acronym "VSEPR" is pronounced either "ves-per" or "vuh-seh-per" by some chemists. The premise of VSEPR is that the valence electron pairs surrounding an atom tend to repel each other, and will therefore adopt an arrangement that minimizes this repulsion, thus determining the molecule's geometry. Gillespie has emphasized that...
This is a (failed) list of exceptions
 
Ugh, VSEPR
 
user228700
11:39 AM
@DHMO Uh, $BH_3$, $NO_2$ etc.
 
but are still exceptions nevertheless
 
Covers his eyes
 
@Rubisco enzymes don't have eyes. they only have activation sites
@Kaumudi how are those molecules exceptions?
 
You hoomins and your terminologies
 
what are the predicted geometries and the actual geometries?
 
user228700
11:40 AM
@DHMO Oh, no, I thought u were asking for examples of free radical compounds.
 
@Kaumudi and you said free radical compounds are exceptions to VSEPR.
 
user228700
@DHMO No, not to VSEPR. I said that the steric rule fails for these molecules.
 
why?
 
user228700
@DHMO Dunno, actually.
 
Sometimes I think we bash hybridisation and VSEPR too much here.
 
11:42 AM
what is the steric rule?
 
user228700
The steric rule gives the hybridization of a given atom based on its steric number.
 
what is the predicted hybridization of BH3?
 
user228700
According to the steric rule?
 
yes
 
user228700
Trigonal planar.
 
11:44 AM
hybridization.......
 
That's a geometry not hybridisation
 
user228700
Huh.
 
isnt it trigonal planar?
 
user228700
Oh, hybridization. OK, $sp^2$.
 
Yeah.
 
11:45 AM
isnt it sp2 as well?
where is the failure?
 
Also just to be nitpicky: you talk about the hybridisation of an atom, not a compound.
So, "B in BH3 is sp2 hybridised" is correct.
 
user228700
@DHMO Yeah, that's why the
 
user228700
1 min ago, by Kaumudi
Huh.
 
"BH3 is sp2 hybridised" is not.
 
user228700
@orthocresol Yes, correct. OK, will speak more carefully.
 
11:47 AM
alright
 
user228700
Hang on...
 
user228700
Yes, sorry about that. Needed to answer the phone.
 
user228700
$NO_2$ is also an exception...
 
how?
 
user228700
Odd number of electrons.
 
11:55 AM
predicted vs actual?
 
user228700
Yeah, I'm trying to figure that out...
 
user228700
Well, predicted is $sp^3$ but that's clearly wrong.
 
user228700
Although...
 
hint: predicted is not sp3
 
user228700
Yeah, I counted the dative bond as well. Predicted is $sp^2$?
 
11:57 AM
yes, with one double bond
 
user228700
Hm. And what about actual..?
 
no idea
 
user228700
Oh...u haven't learnt it yet?
 
there isnt "actual" hybridisation
most molecules don't match
 
user228700
We could try figuring what the hybridization of Nitrogen is by writing its electronic configuration, exciting an electron from the s shell (or not) and everything...
 
11:59 AM
alright
 
user228700
The steric rule is just a short cut for lazy people like me, who don't want to go through with this process. So I'm trying to figure out what the hybridization of the Nitrogen atom really is, now...
 
in that case, i fail to see how there can be any discrepancies
 
user228700
Hang on, what's the point of that? Were u aware of this rule before I brought it up..?
 
user228700
?
 
i thought the steric rule is from the excitations thing
 
user228700
12:01 PM
@DHMO Do u know how the rule actually works? I don't. No, never mind. I was looking to see if anybody had dealt with the discrepancies before...
 
@Kaumudi 3 electron regions -> sp2
 
user228700
I'll be on my way then. Thanks :-)
 
12:21 PM
> I hope you like coffee with a lot of body to it.
 
That reminds me how some students I was supervising tried to anaesthetize a fly with chloroform.
Capture a fly in a test tube, add a few drops of chloroform, close the tube, and let the chloroform evaporate.
That actually worked! So they could put the fly under a microscope.
However, when they tried to do that again, the fly dropped into the liquid chloroform.
And then we learned that fly is soluble in chloroform.
5
 
I've got a text where one heading is a numbered heading (4. Results), the next one is not (4.1. Structure) and the next one is again is (4.1.1. Mapping). I wonder how to make the 4.1. heading into a numbered heading instead of just written.
I hate Microsoft Word
 
@CowperKettle first, remove any manually written numbers; they are just misleading
 
@Loong okay
 
@CowperKettle then check if the correct style is used for that heading
 
12:32 PM
The style is correct: "Heading 1.1."
 
to make sure that you really have the correct style, you could compare it to the styles of headlines that appear correct
 
I have the correct style, but I'd like to know how to put numbers there so that it becomes part of the list
 
user228700
@Ramanujan: I've pinged u at the MSE chat...
 
@CowperKettle good, if you found the correct style, modifiy the format properties of that style. There should be a sub-window for numbering.
 
I deleted the heading, re-entered the name and selected it as heading 1.1. again and the number appeared
It drives me mad that there's no simple and clear explanation of how it all operates
 
1:04 PM
@Loong I learnt the hard way that plastic weighing boats were soluble in DCM.
Running reaction in DCM > trying to add solid into RBF > residual solid stuck on weighing boat > figured that I'll just "wash it off with DCM".
 
@orthocresol what's that? polystyrene?
 
No idea actually.
Yeah, it seems to be polystyrene
 
> The copolymer has a glass transition temperature greater than 100 °C owing to the acrylonitrile units in the chain, thus making the material resistant to boiling water.
 
@Hippalectryon long time no see
 
Why does acrylonitrile (CH2=CH-C#N) make the material resistant?
 
1:11 PM
@Loong Hi :-)
I only have access to an internet connection on my computer during the weekends for now, that's why @Loong
 
@Hippalectryon I see.
@Hippalectryon don't forget to vote!
 
@Loong It's hard >.> there are more than 3 good choices
@Loong PhMgBr (or whatever his name is now) wasn't nominated ?
 
@Loong Could you help me please?
 
@DHMO I can try.
 
1:17 PM
@Loong the question is just some messages above
 
@Loong Oh thanks. Voted :-)
 
@DHMO The nitrile groups are polar. So they attract each other and bind the polymer chains together.
 
@Loong ok, thanks
 
2:14 PM
Oh, look what I found. A @Hippalectryon.
 
@Rubisco where ?
:-D
 

 The Periodic Table

Haikus are awesome / Chemistry's even better / So pull up a chair
 
.... I'm so stupid
so it turns out that the strange subscripts of the d orbitals are the equations of the nodal planes
But then what's wrong with the dz2 orbital?
@Hippalectryon Could you help me?
 
@DHMO "wrong" ? how so ?
 
@Hippalectryon what's wrong does not mean that it's wrong
 
2:22 PM
The surface is indeed z^2
 
I meant, why is the nodal plane of dz2 not z^2=0?
 
Oh I see what you mean
That's a good question, I'm not sure but I can try to find the answer; I'll ping you if I find something
 
Thanks
You might want to find the equation of dz2 @Hippalectryon
I don't know where to find it
 
It's just z^2-(x^2+y^2)=0 isn't it ? @DHMO
 
@DHMO Because z^2 is just a contraction for the real equation.
 
2:28 PM
@Hippalectryon you meant z^2 instead of z?
@orthocresol what is the real equation?
 
The real one is z^2 - r^2/3.
 
@orthocresol you mean the actual dz2 orbital?
 
Yes.
 
wow, and I thought it would be very complicated
 
It is short form because writing out z2 - r2/3 is timeconsuming.
 
2:29 PM
@orthocresol Where does the 1/3 factor come from ? (as in, is there a simple explanation ?)
 
where could I find the equations?
 
Spherical harmonics, look it up on wiki.
 
@orthocresol Made note of that...thanks for telling me! Hiya @DHMO @Rubisco !
 
@AaronAbraham Guten Tag
@orthocresol too complicated on wiki...
 
Gute Nacht
(where I'm from...it's night... :/)
 
2:30 PM
@AaronAbraham I thought you are German
 
@DHMO Well, you only asked for the equations.
 
NO WAY (but I'd love to be :3 )
 
@orthocresol Well, no simple forms like z2-r2/3?
@AaronAbraham :o
 
This is a table of orthonormalized spherical harmonics that employ the Condon-Shortley phase up to degree l = 10. Some of these formulas give the "Cartesian" version. This assumes x, y, z, and r are related to θ {\displaystyle \theta } and φ {\displaystyle \varphi \,} through the usual spherical-to-Cartesian coordinate transformation: x = r ...
Do you see
$Y_2^0(\theta,\phi)$?
 
@DHMO No German's as stupid as I am :P You insulted the Germans XD
 
2:32 PM
That is the one that corresponds to d_{z^2}.
And do you see the 2z2 - x2 - y2?
 
what about the coefficient?
 
now, r2 = x2 + y2 + z2, a consequence of pythagoras theorem
The coefficient is just there for normalisation.
 
I never knew that the orbitals are just harmonics...
 
Just harmonics?
 
They aren't harmonics?
 
2:34 PM
What do you mean by harmonics?
 
The term harmonic in its strictest sense describes any member of the harmonic series. The term is employed in various disciplines, including music and acoustics, electronic power transmission, radio technology, etc. It is typically applied to repeating signals, such as sinusoidal waves. A harmonic of such a wave is a wave with a frequency that is a positive integer multiple of the frequency of the original wave, known as the fundamental frequency. The original wave is also called 1st harmonic, the following harmonics are known as higher harmonics. As all harmonics are periodic at the fundamental...
1D harmonics here
 
@Wildcat Sure bud, call in the KGB/NKVD/FSB/Spetsnaz/Alpha-Group/Red Army/Stasi or whatever....but I shall be prepared... ;P
 
2D harmonics is already very complicated:
Hope I'm not getting everything wrong @orthocresol
 
Well, these are only half of the orbitals.
There is still the radial component.
 
@orthocresol where could I find them?
 
2:36 PM
google for mark winter orbitron
 
So the z2 - r2/3 is not the complete picture?
@orthocresol and then?
 
Firstly, you asked about nodes.
The angular nodes are governed by the angular part
So I gave you that part
And that website has all the wavefunctions for the orbitals
Just go and look around
 
@orthocresol Oh, those are just nodes? I thought those are the probability as well
star-worthy page
@orthocresol am i in the wrong website?
 
@orthocresol you know, the strange 11111 that always appears in the top-left corner
 
2:41 PM
no i don't
and nodes are simply regions where probability density is zero
 
@orthocresol Could I ask you another question?
 
Aren't these visualizations of 4d orbitals beautiful?
(No, this isn't the question)
My question is that I fail to see how the lowest-energy MO from these orbitals can be doubly degenerate
Because I thought the lowest energy should be from the dz2 sigma-orbital
which should not be degenerate
 
what symmetry are you talking about
 
@orthocresol well, just two atoms
 
2:44 PM
2 atoms??
 
yes
MO from 2 atoms
 
so you are talking about an M2 species?
 
yes
 
dunno, i would expect dz2 to be sigma bonding, greatest overlap and hence lowest in energy
this is the case in for example $\ce{[Rh2Cl8]^2-}$
 
@orthocresol me too
2
A: What is Bimolybdenum's hybridisation?

DHMOYou probably meant dimolybdenum. Its MO diagram is already given on Wikipedia: From here, you can see that no hybridization is necessary, because the $\mathrm{4d}$ and the $\mathrm{5s}$ orbitals can all form bonds within themselves.

but have a look at this
The lowest energy from 4d orbitals are doubly degenerate
 
2:51 PM
that diagram is very confusing
 
@orthocresol why?
 
no labelling
 
indeed
 
can't learn anything from it
 
would they be combining from another angle? however, if that is the case, i fail to see how the two dz2 combine together from, say, the x axis
 
2:52 PM
internuclear axis is usually assumed to be z
 
@orthocresol but the orbitals don't have to be aligned that way
 
it doesn't matter which way you align them the end result should be same
so if you align them the easy way and the wrong thing comes out
it's not a problem with your alignment
it's a problem with your assessment of the interactions
 
Can two dz2 orbitals interact from the waists?
 
ya ofc
 
:o
I can't imagine that happening
Is that a pi-orbital?
 
2:57 PM
dunno
 
3:14 PM
so, anyway, i thought about it a little.
The degenerate pair is probably (xz,yz).
There should be mixing with p_x and p_y orbitals which would lower the energy of the bonding MO.
However, the dz2 should also mix with p_z and s. So, that alone cannot explain it.
 
@orthocresol so my answer is wrong! :D
 
I would prefer a reliable source for an MO diagram instead of Wikipedia, the person who uploaded it did not give any description either.
I didn't say that, but if you insist
 
3:58 PM
@orthocresol here, the lowest energy MO formed by 4d orbitals is indeed not degenerate
and the second lowest is doubly degenerate
 
I have another problem with MS Word. I have level 3 headings that go 4.1.8, 4.2, 4.2.1. When I change heading 4.2 to level 2 (up one level), the next heading changes from 4.2.1 to 4.1.9
 
@CowperKettle then change the next heading up one level as well
 
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