The Water Cooler - 2013-04-05

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9:11 AM

Wow, Celeritas has quite the post history

3

-5

Q: salvaging bad relation with co-workers and boss before contract is up

I started an 8 month contract working for one of the largest technology/consulting corporations and I am 3 months into it. I don't like the way my colleagues work and they probably don't like the way I work. I am wondering if there's anyway to salvage the situation to at least get a decent refere...

professionalism employer-relations references

-6

Q: Person keeps blaiming me for not being at desk when he was supposed to train me but we never schedule a time

I have been working at my current job for 3 months and my training keeps getting delayed. The person who supposed to be training me keeps coming up with other work he has to do. The problem is sometimes he tells my manager I'm not at my desk (which is true from time to time). What's not fair is h...

22

Q: Disagreeing with boss over personal topics when socializing

Is it bad practice to disagree with a boss on personal opinions, in the context of talking about things for fun? For example, if a boss is talking about how much corruption is in the Catholic Church and they try to hide it, can I say defend it? Does it matter if my position is controversial and g...

professionalism management socializing

12

Q: How to keep busy during slow times, without looking like I have nothing to do?

I do a lot of tech support work and sometimes I find myself waiting on people or generally going through a slow time. I get a phone call something like once a week. I mainly setup virtual machines and move things around. One thing I do in these downtimes is to clean out the storage room and recy...

software-industry work-environment productivity work

-2

Q: How to respond when misunderstood bosses question

At my job there are often minor situations where I get in a small amount of trouble for answering a question wrong and I think this happens because I don't understand the purpose of the question. One example is I was setting up a new (physical) computer and the boss walks in and sees I'm running...

management communication

0

Q: When you're asked to fix a mistake you didn't cause should you mention it wasn't your mistake if it is assumed to be?

For example if the boss asks you "are these boxes here temporarily? They shouldn't be here" how should you respond? The fact that he asks if they are here temporarily implies I put them their in the first place. Should I mention I didn't put them there or not? This is just an example, in general ...

management employer-relations

0

Q: How can I politely disagree with my manager?

Recently I was told to do something by one of my managers that I didn't feel made sense. I asked the other manager for a second opinion and it was not well received (he saw it as me going around my other manager's back even though that wasn't my intention). What did I do wrong, and how should I a...

professionalism management relationships

Do you think he may have a problem with his management?

3 hours later…

12:43 PM

@jmac a more accurate title would be "I hate my manager, how can I subvert his authority and just do what I want with out getting in trouble."

1:01 PM

@jmac Indeed. I was going to say something about that here too, I think the answer is "learn interpersonal skills"

1:17 PM

@enderland ... I believe the consenses of all the answers to his questions is quit your job... but then again I have not bothered to look at any of the actual answers just a gut feeling :p

@Chad but the problem is it's his boss's fault not his!

@enderland He should quit his boss's job?

I want to post an answer to the last question of: You don't. You are a contractor and you have been hired to perform tasks that the manager assigns you. It does not matter if you agree or understand why he is telling you to do them. If you have problems with your manager then address them to your contact at your employer(not the company you are contracted to)

2:00 PM

0

Q: How can we diversify our community?

Arathi (one of the SE Employees on the community team) noted: Much like The Workplace, we'd really like to see more content that isn't software development related. That's not something that will magically change, and the reasons for why are pretty obvious (Stack Overflow). That said, I...

2:15 PM

0

Q: What non-lawsuit remedies do I have for a boss who seemed to just not get accommodation for disability?

I had one boss who heard an accommodation for disability of 40 hours workweek per week, and tried to steamroll over limiting my hours per week. First he expected a full day plus significant work that evening, and when I said, "I did that" and "I kept my end of the bargain; you didn't keep yours" ...

software-industry work-environment disability

^ needs to be closed.

preferably before it attracts bad answers

2:47 PM

@Chad I don't think this is a problem

it's a problem with the bad questions, for sure, but those get closed

@enderland The SE team sees this as a problem... so it is a problem even if the problem is perception

Problem is probably the wrong word.

@Chad oh, well it makes sense, since we have trains of -5 voted off-topic questions always on the homepage

The SE team would like to see The workplace have more diverse questions and less software questions.

I think part of that is close/delete quickly and I always have

The other is we need to stop fixing really bad questions to bring them barely over the acceptable line. We should fix questoins that can be made into good questions and leave it to the op to fix the others.

when we get a bad question it needs to immediately be closed

then edited

not answered

I think our problem is not that we need more good content. (not that we cant use it) we need alot less bad content.

yeah

2:57 PM

I can't argue with that (I've been focusing more on answers though, obv)

3:07 PM

@Chad I added a more action plan thing there

it's basically simple imo, just harder to implement

this might be a place more active moderation would help too - closing "software specific" questions more quickly? not sure

I have a hard time voting to reopen a question which picked up a few mediocre answers regardless of question quality. - Same here

In fact I am more likely to vote to delete it

@Chad yeah, same. I'm still not sure how I feel about delete votes honestly

I probably should do that more

@enderland I do not know because I am not a mod but... It seems that SE is pushing a reactive moderation policy rather than a proactive one.

I have no idea but I suspect that is true - otherwise the moderation staff takes a huge "burden" for a site maintenance

It is possible I am over thinking that but I consistantly see mods that step down become more vocal and active members of the community. I seriously doubt they did not feel the desire to have that activity when they were mods.

And it is not just here.

Part of what made skeptics successful imo was the fact that Oddthinking was relentless in closing questions that did not meet standards, even if they were easily fixed. It set up a community where the midset was get it right before you post, instead of a lets see if it flys then if not someone else may fix it

3:19 PM

While celeritas has quite a post history, i dont think we should be judging each of his new questions based on his old ones, should be an impartial choice based solely on the new question and its relevance to furute visitors, while that guy may indeed be an ass, his question might hold relevance on its own to other people, provided it meets the requirements and is of good quality

@RhysW Have you read the last one?

The question would be more appropriately titled "I hate my manager, how can I subvert his authority and just do what I want with out getting in trouble."

That is just reading that one. When you go back over the other questions it just becomes more and more clear what is going on.

@Chad i agree that qustion is bad, overly specific, but it could old relevance if tidied up, thats a bad example for me to base off of really, plus im sure its a duplicate

Honestly if i were to take a guess, the guy has a social disorder not that dissimilar from a form of undiagnosed aspergers.

His difficulties lie in not understanding conversation and its boundaries, all of his questions relate to communication and his misunderstanding of what is going wrong or why its going wrong

@RhysW I am tempted to comment "I Do not think 'politely' means what you think it means"

the context is really important though in the "how should you deal with this situation" when you have a consistent pattern of being abrasive and difficult to get along with

my advice to someone who is a "people person" is different than someone who acn't hod a conversation, etc

@RhysW His difficulties lie in not realizing that he is an entry level IT Contractor, not the guy in charge.

3:24 PM

Agreed, i cant hold a conversation, his questions had the potential to be ood questions imif they were asked by anyone but h

by anyone but him*

@RhysW I think that you could edit the questions to make them passable. that is not the same as being a good question

@Chad im taking a less active role in editing questions, too many bad ones are being asked because they can get away with it

more recently im leaving the community to tear the OP a new one so they learn to stop doing it :P

-1

Q: What non-lawsuit remedies do I have for a boss who seemed to just not get accommodation for disability?

I had one boss who heard an accommodation for disability of 40 hours workweek per week, and tried to steamroll over limiting my hours per week. First he expected a full day plus significant work that evening, and when I said, "I did that" and "I kept my end of the bargain; you didn't keep yours" ...

software-industry work-environment disability

i dont even understand this question, or its purpose

@RhysW That was my big problem with people editing every question trying to save it. You lower the bar of entry and people just quit trying to strive for excellence

@Chad oh hi

he mentions disability accomodation but that seems to have nothing to do with the question

3:28 PM

@enderland ?

@RhysW Summary The op had rights violated, got fired for trying to assert them, needs to get a lawyer, wants to know if there is anything they can do before getting a lawyer

@Chad ok, but i still dont see how disability comes in to that, or this letter to the Duke of Wellington 0.o

The dude should have got fired, it i sent my boss a letter like that, which is basically a way of passive agressive being an ass then id be fired too :S

@RhysW I do not really get the letter either, the OP has a doctors note saying no more than 40hours of work a week... believe it or not it is not terribly uncommon

@Chad it's hard for ME to be motivated when the overall standard seems to have dropped and I'm much less motivated to edit/etc

oh right ok that makes slightly more sense, either way, theres a lot of guff in there that makes no sense, i couldnt even tell what the question was asking 0.o

why isnt the question just

'I have a note from my doctor saying i can only work 40 hours a week, my boss insists i work more, or demands work to be completed in that time that cannot be done, summarily he dismissed me for this, what can i do?'

Which even then is a legal question out of bounds

@RhysW Yeah I did not really want to go into assualting the OP's question asking abilities. There is no way to take the legal aspect out of the question. so it was off topic. Close and leave it at that.

3:33 PM

yeah, agreed

though seriously, sending your boss a letter like that....wow

@RhysW Why does my wife insist on taking an hour every night when i get home to tell me that she did her job? I dont need the details.

how many downvotes are required to knock a question off frontpage

@Chad blame the genetic code

@RhysW Something about having 2 X Chromosomes... Though I have a gay friend that is the same way, so that may not be it.

Not neccesarily,

the need to talk about things more is related to the way females generally have more connections between the left and right hemispheres of the brain creating a different relay of information and emotions, its expected that its easy enough for a male to experience the same phenomenon, though less commonly, especially due to the rise of various chemicals in water relating to the triggering of more neuron interaction in the brain

And its only more common in females due to the thousands of years of evolution

males had no need to talk to the animals they were hunting, while the females had a need to relay information to 'the man of the house/cave' to supply them with the information needed to make the desicions

this slowly lowered the genetic pool of males who talked about things alot as it wasnt genetically superior

3:39 PM

@RhysW Damn you Darwin!

due to the fact we are no longer a survival of the fittest species its creeping back into the male gene pool

its worse than that

@Chad does that answer your question? :P

most people who are more educated have less kids

@enderland have you seen 'Idiocracy' by any chance

3:40 PM

@RhysW Sounds like you are advocating culling the weak(women who talk to much)

@Chad of course not, the relay of information is vital to the survival of our entire species, im just explaining why its the way it is

@RhysW no. I'd be too depressed most likely

@enderland its a scary film, due to the fact that its far too easy for it to happen

I wonder if it'd be a bad idea to write an autohotkey script to enter my user credentials automatically

for all the times I have to do this lol

i know the feeling, but its already been written

i think

password safe , or other products like it, can store your password and the program / website its for and automatically detect and insert credentials into the login forms for you, if i remember rightly

3:45 PM

Anyone know if there is a way in VS to make control characters visible in code?

Oooh there is a way, ive just forgotten

my boss uses it all the time to see tabs etc

it might have been a nuget plugin though

ahh... freaking office politics do not let me download addons that have not been approved

@Chad lol I got a "unauthorized software" email for an outlook addon

@Chad try control + shift + 8 in VS

Wow do you two work for the government or something thats insane,

as long as any software we have is legal, with liscence key if required, were allowed it so that we can do our jobs

@RhysW nah many bigger companies do this

mainly because many people are wtfstupid

3:50 PM

This is a big company 0.o

but its a big IT company, so that probably makes a difference

@RhysW No someone downloaded something they should not have... so of course the solution is to ban anyone from downloading anything ever

@Chad typical corporate response, nuke from orbit then rebuild the few things you wanted

I'm fortunate in that our software system has a couple things which are hugely beneficial

so I get a lot of what I woudl otherwise want

I have an added advantage at the moment of writing the standards for our office development team, so have free reign over testing software to see if it would meet our needs XD

Worse everyone is wide open including the software install directory which is auto mapped to our S drive on log in. But if we install anything that has not been specifically approved for us to instal it is lots of trouble.

3:53 PM

i just sometimes get warning emails which are basically c/d

Wow, im really glad im not you two 0.o

@RhysW Someday a developer like me is going to curse your shortsightedness :P

-4

Q: How can I politely disagree with my manager?

Recently I was told to do something by one of my managers that I didn't feel made sense. I asked the other manager for a second opinion and it was not well received (he saw it as me going around my other manager's back even though that wasn't my intention). What did I do wrong, and how should I a...

professionalism management relationships

@Rachel ^^^ What do you think?

@Chad XD my shortsightedness? i dont need glasses :(

@Rachel Should it be closed?

3:54 PM

...it IS closed

@RhysW I have a pretty good life, so I am quite happy to be me. One stupid corporate policy does not define my life just gives me somthing to bitch about... which makes me happy!

@Chad true, bitching about corporate policy to coworkers brings the team together

maybe they know that and do stupid thing son purpose!

Hmm, just realised i probably need to broaden my thinking a little

No, I got in trouble for asking a question on SO that highlighted the stupidity of a policy at my last employer :p

@Chad really? does it still exist?

@JimG. that question is bad because it's asking something which is completely a strawman. "I did somethig which was stupid but don't think it was stupid, hwo can I continue to do stupid things even though I dont think they are stupid?"

4:01 PM

0

Q: The 'DbProviderFactories' section can only appear once per config file

We are receiving this error when calling a WCF .net 4.0 service using entity framework. The 'DbProviderFactories' section can only appear once per config file It is the first app on the server using EF and other .net 4.0 WCF services are not receiving this error. Is there any way to corre...

wcf iis7 entity-framework-4 machine.config

ixnay on the eedingfay the roolstay

XD Chad you spelt trool :P

@Chad you got in trouble for posting that question?

yeah

actually the comments are what caused the problem

wow, how did they even find it? and know it was you?

lol someone accepted an answer of mine on SO 2 months after I posted it :D

Because a member of the architecture team that told me I had to do it that way is also an active SO user.

4:07 PM

I would have love if it was him that posted the answer

@Chad lmao

@enderland The moral of the story is when your gut tells you not to take a job, do not take the job.

@Chad Yeah.... this is actually partially why I have the job I currently do (well one of a variety of factors)

@chad but i dont have a gut, what do i do? :P

@RhysW quit your job!

4:11 PM

@Chad i knew youd say that! Dont make me slap you!

@RhysW drink beer

175

Q: Something is burning in the server room; how can I quickly identify what it is?

The other day, we notice a terrible burning smell coming out of the server room. Long story short, it ended up being one of the battery modules that was burning up in the UPS unit, but it took a good couple of hours before we were able to figure it out. The main reason we were able to figure it o...

are people stupid enough to go sniff things they think is on fire and is making them light headed?

@RhysW You need to spend a few weeks watching the crap they call reality tv on US Cable... you would not ask that question

@Chad oh god dont, i deliberately avoid tv because of the stupidity portrayed

@RhysW I am pretty sure they edit out the really dumb crap :p[

4:19 PM

@JimG. It's probably a duplicate to something somewhere. I recall a good version on Programmers asking what to do when you disagree with your manager, and to summarize the answers, you explain your objections once, then live with whatever decision he/she makes. Their the boss and this is their responsibility, not yours. And you might not know the bigger picture behind why they make the decisions they do.

@Rachel i knew it was probably a duplicate! couldnt find it though, forgot to check programmers, thought i was going crazy

wow this is useful

workplace.stackexchange.com/tools

This page requires more privileges
The page you're trying to visit requires the privilege “access to moderator tools.”

awwww

rejected

@RhysW Yeah, it might have been deleted though. There have been multiple times I've gone to find older questions like that and haven't been able to find them anywhere (although occasionally I find a link to them on meta, and I have 10k rep so can at least see the content)

I really want to go buy an unhealthy lunch today even though I just ate mine. What should I do?

4:35 PM

@enderland Quit your job! or Slap the lunch lady! I am torn

Quit the lunch lady and slap your job

0

Q: A junior employee is being promoted to my manager, possible counters?

An employee who has been at the company much less time than me and is in a junior position to me is in the process of being promoted to my manager. I feel greatly disrespected so my first course of action was to schedule an appointment with the executive who made the decision but he refuses my a...

promotion politics

First 5 close votes get a prize

geez talk about bitter

Even if he were union, They do not have to care about seniority for management positions

it really irks me when people say 'he shouldnt be my boss, hes younger than me'!

4:43 PM

I kinda want to answer

maybe the guy is more of a people person and doesnt keep insulting everyone which is why hes being promoted

maybe he is being promoted precisely because he isnt afraid to ask questions and play the politics game, you wont succeed as a manager in a politics environment if you dont play the game

@enderland And I want to retitle the other question... but we know better

Think of it this way, on Halloween, which kid gets more candy? the one that dresses up in an awesome costume and walks around, or the one that dresses up in a shoddy costume and goes door-to-door asking for candy? — acolyte 1 min ago

what am I missing here

@Chad a costume, and some candy?

' I will go down your rabbit hole'

@Chad, you cant say things like this on the internet...

@RhysW Yeah I cant have either anymore by court order due to a misunderstanding involving a Horse, a female police officer, and a BombPop

@Chad I think the point was you need to show an interest and ask to get a promotion, not just keep your head down and do what's assigned to you. It's not really possible to determine the reason the OP was passed over for the promotion though

4:50 PM

@Chad hi Chad. I don't find your comments very helpful. Please don't respond to anymore of my questions. — Celeritas 3 mins ago

@Chad If it makes you feel any better, a moderator has told me something along those lines before too :p

@Rachel He did not like that I told him he had to be nice :p

I So badly want to reply that I do not find your questions very useful please stop posting them here

@Chad lol I'd upvote it :|

@enderland Will you take the suspension for me if it comes :p

@Chad I doubt that would give a suspension, would it?

4:57 PM

@Chad I'd flag it for removal personally

@Rachel If I saw it so would I

AHAHAHAHA that is the best thing ive ever seen chad! Kudos

That's not the sort of behavior we want to encourage from established members of the site

if you get through life without people hating you youre doing something wrong

I Think we are all aware of that

4:58 PM

Chad where is that comment, i cant find it :(

which?

@RhysW just hate yourself, it works out great!

@Chad hi Chad. I don't find your comments very helpful. Please don't respond to anymore of my questions. — Celeritas 11 mins ago

click on the 3 mins ago

@Chad this one

click on the 11mins ago

4:59 PM

didnt know you could do that, ta

I would note that my comment was curteous, mostly non judgemental, and helpful. I was not intending to insult him

@Chad i would have accepted your comment as an answer if i had asked the question

he asked how to salvage the relationship, you explained how and now he hates you

What I get for trying to help the helpless

i seem to be flagging a lot of the more recent newcomers coments as rude and offensive, just a trend ive noticed

I flag quite a few comments

sorry moderation :)

5:02 PM

@Chad you probably pissed him off with comments on a different post :)

@RhysW I suspect it is because your tolarance for BS has dropped more than the actual quality of comments

the comments on this answer of mine make it hard for me to feel sympathy though

8

A: How to respond when misunderstood bosses question

Your boss probably got upset because saying "the wall" is a sarcastic answer which may be technically true yet provides your boss zero information of value and is a waste of conversation. Where is my error in reasoning? You chose a sarcastic answer which didn't even answer what you thought...

@Chad could well be, but this isnt for BS stuff this is for actually rude and offensive stuff

@Rachel I am pretty sure that is the only comment i left him

thats not the first one ive seen that told peopl ein no uncertain words to stop posting as they didnt like their comments

@enderland i love that last comment, its so ridiculous

5:05 PM

@RhysW I have told a few people

@chad lol really?

I hate discussion in comments, and it really irratates me when i get drawn in to one

scheduling a meeting with the executive very well could have been a career limiting move for that recent question

how in the world could you phrase the meeting in such a way as to not look terrible?

@enderland some people and their capacity to do things astounds me

@RhysW I guess if you don't play the game then you wouldn't realize how bad of a decision that sort of thing can be

5:12 PM

@enderland Meeting invite with Alvin Hole : Subject The fact that you screwed me over on a Nathan Iceguy's Promotion.

@Chad ... I know, I'm really curious how that email/meeting was setup :)

@enderland I suspect that he had limited his career long before that email though

hmmm celitas just got removed :\

now I'm not over 9000 anymore

@enderland cant catch me im the gingerbread man :p

That improved our front page... just the first 4 questions closed instead of the first 8

my boss doesn't give any feedback when I ask questions, regardless of how specific, on "what can I be doing better" or "how am I doing with XX"

5:19 PM

I'd get pretty mad if one of my juniors called me sir, but that's becasue I am female! — HLGEM 40 secs ago

guess you were right

@enderland woah hes gone

@Chad

I'd get pretty mad if one of my juniors called me sir, but that's becasue I am female! — HLGEM 9 mins ago

5:48 PM

Can anyone improve the wording of this:

1

Q: Is it better to avoid emailing bad/negative news, if you can use phone communication?

I'm in a situation where I've taken a hiatus from work, in order to complete schooling. However , the hiatus will need more time than initially communicated(I told them I'd need only one month - til April 8, but life got in the way). It will need 3 more months(til July). I'm already scheduled t...

communication time-off

@Chad does he mean he needs to tell his boss he needs 3 more months off - starting next monday?

@enderland i think thats what he is saying

wow, like a days notice for three onths off is insane

6:02 PM

@enderland yeah part of my problem is this problem is very localized. That part can easily be rewritten though. but I think the whole question needs improvement

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The Water Cooler

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