Possible Duplicate:
Can I tell a potential employer the dollar amount of other offers?
I am facing this situation.
A few days back, I got an offer from CompanyA and I verbally accepted it. Yesterday I got another offer from CompanyB, which is paying a higher salary (about 12%more). A...
@RhysW It's not a duplicate of the question listed, so it shouldn't be closed at all
Also, it prevents users from finding the question if they have the same question, as users that go to that question from an unregistered account will get automatically redirected to the linked question instead
I have an incognito browser window open that is logged into Programmers, but not to StackOverflow. I have a separate browser window that is logged into all SE sites. (If you must know, my StayFocused time is expired so I'm using an incognito window to access Programmers)
I clicked on an inbox no...
Ah thats interesting, im always logged in so i never thought about it, though it does make sense as to why we bother closing as duplicates. I will be sure to remember that in the future
I like the question too, your one that is, about how you even discovered this, avoiding the time tracking productivity tool made me chuckle
Here's the link to the bill of rights of a programmer: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/the-programmers-bill-of-rights.html
The question is are there any workplaces that follow the bill? How does it work in practice?
I made an edit to this question I am not sure if a) it is good enough and b) if it belongs here... I think maybe it belongs on Programmers
@NickC There is some collusion here to keep the rates down because it helps the whole of business. When a business come in and pays too much, you will find that other companies in the area will avoid doing business with them. That may not matter to a global company but most companies rely on their regional sales more than thier global sales at least at the start. If they make it, it is because they fell into step and played ball.
The only way I see it on-topic here is if it was asking how to implement a specific part of the bill in the workplace, such as how to get your boss to buy you dual monitors
Also, I think the "are there any workplaces that follow the bill" would be enough to keep it closed
The original version of the question on Programmers included:
"Mine doesn't, and fails miserably at that. The only requirement met is a fast internet connection.
I think this can give everyone an idea of how good/bad their place is relative to the general workplace standards, and what to expect when changing jobs..."
So it sounds like the OP really wants to know if it would be acceptable to request some of those changes, such as dual monitors or better equipment
Please feel free! i am crazily tired, neighbour 'drummer dude' insists on practicing well into the early hours every evening / morning and my edit had room for much improvement
I agree it should be closed, this actually sounds more like a rant now that ive re read it, many companies do give out competetive raises, ive experienced a few cases myself, he sounds bitter from a recent review more than anything
@RhysW Its updated. I copied some info from the Programmers version, and added a summary of the "bill of rights". Also since the OP was originally trying to figure out what the "standard" was, I added a phrase about that too (although it's not the basis of the question)
@Chad I'm still not a big fan of edits like that...it's a totally different question now, potentially one the asker no longer cares about, which can really poison an otherwise good question
My edit was changing from poll to do anyone... but I didnt vote to reopen yet because I didnt really care for that question much mote it jut wasnt a poll
@RhysW I think that should have been meta discussed before that change was made
@RhysW Well I think your edit was where it changed to much. Its not that your question was a bad question, I think it is a good question. But it is not what the OP asked for.
@RhysW I think overall what the OP wanted (to find out if it was normal for a company to fully implement the "programmers bill of rights") would be off-topic here.
And I edited the Programmers copy of the question to be what the OP was originally asking, so I think the two combined (providing they get reopened) would get him what he's looking for
Here's the link to the "bill of rights" of a programmer: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/the-programmers-bill-of-rights.html
To summarize:
Every programmer shall have two monitors
Every programmer shall have a fast PC
Every programmer shall have their choice of mouse and keyboard
Ever...
Here's the link to the "bill of rights" of a programmer: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/the-programmers-bill-of-rights.html
To summarize:
Every programmer shall have two monitors
Every programmer shall have a fast PC
Every programmer shall have their choice of mouse and keyboard
Ever...
@Chad yeah i made the strong edit, i will openly admit to that and take the fault if its no longer useful. It was just the only way i could see it being marginally useful for this site.
Recruiters look at many particular signs in a candidate and draw conclusions that, sometimes, look shallow, sometimes odd.
For example, let's take this question: If you provided an incorrect answer to a technical question on an interview, should you respond with a correct response? The answer gi...
@Chad I don't know... it doesn't seem that bad to be asking if there is specific evidence to backup the many statements claiming recruiters make an assumption based on how you answer questions
The question is not a bad question by itself. But it is not the question that was asked and not really what the OP was asking so the answers to this question are not likely to help the OP answer his question.
When the changes to a question meet that threshold I think is when the edit is too much.
I think SE overall has the fundamental problem of not needing experts to answer most questions, so experts aren't excited to come here (on the whole, probably especially at non-SO sites)
@enderland Real "experts" get paid for what they do. They don't sit around on the internet all day answering questions for free. SE needs to cater to those people who enjoy helping others, and are knowledgeable enough to answer the question intelligently
They probably do have models, in much the same way that financial analysts had models about derivatives of mortgage backed securities reducing the inherent risk of subprime mortgages by bundling them with other mortgages.
We see how well that worked out for them...
So the real question is why d...
@Chad Well yeah, that is part of it. But for example here you get people like us - who might have a personal interest in this or just be nerds or whatever - answering the majority of questions, but when serious "expert needed" questions come, people feel free to add their input as well
@enderland I love the kids that are still wet behind the ears trying to answer management questions... and by love i meant hate with fury of 1000 burning suns
Recruiters look at many particular signs in a candidate and draw conclusions that, sometimes, look shallow, sometimes odd.
For example, let's take this question: If you provided an incorrect answer to a technical question on an interview, should you respond with a correct response? The answer gi...
as far as I know almost everyone here who has been involved in recruiting/interviewing has been from the perspective of "employee" rather than "recruiter/HR"
@maple_shaft Your answer came across as a rant more than an answer to the question. I Think if you had some links to back up your claims it would appear less so. With out them I have to agree
@maple_shaft Well that is one claim. underlying motive in forming a pseudo science behind something that is inherently a chaotic messy process is another, The dilemma for them is that they post a job opening and they get flooded with 90 resumes in a week. Easily 70 of these are clearly underqualified or pure garbage. another...
@enderland Based on my personal experience which is having an office next to the guy who does recruiting and listening to him talk and theorize a lot, they don't have models. They have predictive analysis they sometimes use to try and judge a person's personality and how well they'll fit into the job, but it's not a make or break factor in if a person gets hired or not
I was merely offering an explanation to WHY the models are there, and yes of course they have a model or some kind of methodology (for certain positions) to widdle down potential applicants... HR software to do just that is a million dollar industry
My point is it doesn't f** matter what the model is because there are too many variables for it to be anything but random*
@maple_shaft Eh, I'm not as convinced - for people who are really good at something, they can often identify "excellence" within that expertise very quickly for a variety of reasons
@enderland Then we are in agreement, no large company wants to trust an HR employee's intuition on somebody though, they want to break it down into a science that anybody off the street can follow a script and end up with good results
@maple_shaft I wish I could remember where but I recall a REALLY fascinating study on doctors and accuracy of diagnosis - someone came up with a really solid mathematical prediction model which was better than many doctors were, but, people didn't want to trust it - IGNORING that it was proven to be better
@maple_shaft Not all of it is junk, however it needs to be understood that it's not 100% accurate and to use your own judgement and not just "trust the model"
Here's the model that I think our company uses: piworldwide.com
@enderland The problem is when the mathematical model is wrong it is often spectacularly wrong with life or death consequences. And we want someone to blame(and sue) when something goes wrong and you cant blame math.
@maple_shaft I actually like your answer. It's the reason why a personal reference to a job position is so valuable (for BOTH parties) because it can cut that entire pile of BS out
The first half of your post sounds like a political rant from circa 3 years ago. Just and FYI, bundling mortgages with different risk envelopes into one security makes for a lot of sense to a lot of people who need to build hedges. The reasons for the financial crisis were much more complicated than 'bad risk models'. — suslik52 mins ago
Accuse me of being political then try to bait me into a political argument with a different political statement
@maple_shaft well the problem wasnt the any one thing. The math did not go wrong, the people screwed up. This was forecast back before the housing market crashed in 2007
Everyone said that isnt going to happen. Now they are saying the US Government is not going to take over as a totalatrian regime...
@enderland I do not think for a second that Obama is making any mistakes. He knows what he is doing and is doing it with the intention of reaping the expected results.
1) Risk models that didn't take into a global drop in real estate value 2) Banks trying to package things they can't sell to offset the risk 3) The conflict of interest that Banks were PAYING rating agencies to judge the risk of their own financial products 4) Collapse of Lehman brothers
@Chad With the financial overhaul bill, one of the things they tried to change was that banks can't pay for their instruments to be judged by ratings agencies, but then that takes control away from the investment banks to influence the ratings agencies so they put up a fuss about it and Poof its gone
so nothing has changed since 4 years ago
nothing
except that we are all collectively quite a bit poorer as a result
@maple_shaft They never addressed the real problem. That is that the government was mandating and guaranteeing loans that they knew were going to fail. And loaning money to people they knew would never pay it back.
@maple_shaft There is a difference between it will never be paid back and loaning money to people who will never pay it back. The difference is FannieMay and FreddieMac who will pay it back to the bank
Best form of government... Benevolent Monarchy. Because it doesn't give people false hope for real freedom, the authority figure is pretty much random, and if you are lucky, he is actually making decisions with the best intentions of his subjects in mind
New feature request. Notice when users upvote alot of bad posts and ask them if they are upvoting because it is a good answer or because they like they way they feel...
The root cause of the issue is that the voting system is horribly skewed in favour of upvotes. A much simpler solution would be for upvotes on answers to cost reputation.
Let's put our money where our mouth is...
We should just open up a window where you get to choose from :This answer makes me feel good, this answers the question well, I really like the poster, and This answer sucks donkey balls
I suspect we will get alot of this answer makes me feel good :p
Make all rep changes happen daily so you do not see the effects immediately.
I know it wont happen... probably not even a good idea just irratates me to see all these people upvote answers that suck because they like the way the answer feels.
@enderland ah, interesting. I try to only upvote something that answers the question, so I didn't realize. I rarely downvote non-answers though; I should work on that
I am facing this situation.
A few days back, I got an offer from CompanyA and I verbally accepted it. Yesterday I got another offer from CompanyB, which is paying a higher salary (about 12%more). After much thought and deliberation, I have decided to go with CompanyA.
My specific question is ...
Jeff Atwood posted back in 2006 an article entitled "Programmer's Bill of Rights".
To summarize:
Every programmer shall have two monitors
Every programmer shall have a fast PC
Every programmer shall have their choice of mouse and keyboard
Every programmer shall have a comfortable chair
Every p...
As evidenced by assorted answers answering various bits and pieces of it
IMO this is NARQ because these are 6 different problems. Maybe a general "how can I get stuff" (to which the obvious, general answer is "prove it's useful to the company") might be okay, but 6 different, specific requests is a mouthful for one question. The answers also vary a lot; a fast internet connection probably requires the whole company to change, vs buying a second monitor only for developers and so on. — Rarity10 mins ago
How to encourage an employer to adopt the "Programmer's Bill of Rights"?
This question has already had a major revision, Several of us feel this revision changed the question from its original intent.
Original Question:
Programmer's bill of rights: does your workplace follow ...
I was originally going to ask something of that nature, but last time I did I received negative votes because the question had no real answer and was subject to opinions. I can see now that I'm getting negative votes anyway. You can close the question and my account. I'll ask friends and colleagues instead of people that feel the need to vote down instead of offer constructive advice. — Sam1 hour ago
@YannisRizos hehe, why not? i would figure whichever question comes closest to answering what the OP was originally asking would be the right one to leave open?
Well that was interesting. I posted my answer to the meta question, quite literally got a downvote within 3 seconds (the posted time still said "just now"), then it got reversed and now it's upvoted? O.o
I feel the current version is OK for this site the way it is, however you are correct that it is not the same question the OP originally asked.
There is a comment on the question that says:
@hdman myself, rachel and chad have collaboratively made a few edits
to hopefully make your question...
@AdamV Possibly, although it may have been due to the first 10 words or so of my question saying "I feel the current version is OK for this site the way it is". I was re-reading the question and realized that sets the wrong tone for the answer unless you continue reading
But anyways, I'm heading home. I've said my piece, and you can do what you want with it ^_^
@BenBrocka yeah, depends on how much practice you have with 'em
whenever my wife used to come to visit me driving her pickup, i always had to come help her park it at my apartment complex since the spots were really narrow
I kinda like the CRVs for what they are. Not as dorky as a van/station wagon, can carry stuff without the stupid size/excessive roll over risk/gas consumption of a full SUV
Drove my dad's Honda CRV for a year or so. It's not terrible for a 10 year old car
My car's around 20MPG in city, allegedly, but I haven't bothered to check using it's MPG display yet. I fill up once a month most times since I don't drive much
I wanted to get a tesla but in illinois if a pot hole isnt 6 inches deep they dont fix it so I figued it would take all of 15 minutes for me to total it from road wear
@BenBrocka I probably will get a hatchback as my next car. I'm not totally sold on the focus station wagon... though the european-only current version looks awesome
Possible Duplicate:
Can I tell a potential employer the dollar amount of other offers?
I am facing this situation.
A few days back, I got an offer from CompanyA and I verbally accepted it. Yesterday I got another offer from CompanyB, which is paying a higher salary (about 12%more). A...
The root cause of the issue is that the voting system is horribly skewed in favour of upvotes. A much simpler solution would be for upvotes on answers to cost reputation.
Let's put our money where our mouth is...
How to encourage an employer to adopt the "Programmer's Bill of Rights"?
This question has already had a major revision, Several of us feel this revision changed the question from its original intent.
Original Question:
Programmer's bill of rights: does your workplace follow ...
