Morning on this day perfectly suited to cleaning out the CV queue

morning mags :)

@motosubatsu morning! I'm trying to generate some enthusiasm for clearing CV queues :D

Hopefully we get a new batch of mods in january and things will be livelier then

@Magisch I've done a bit.. both through the queues and ad-hoc. We've had some real stinkers lately

@motosubatsu heh. You planning to run in January?

I'd vote for you

@Magisch thanks, I appreciate that - but no as things stand I'm not planning on running

maybe joe will run this time

@Magisch maybe.. although I think he's been pretty adamant in the past that it didn't interest him

@JoeStrazzere thanks, she seems to be out of the woods now.

@Magisch after all the recent drama, I don't see why anyone would want to be a moderator.

Yeah, being a mod is not what it looks like :p

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica simple reason, if you like the community here more then you dislike SO inc

And have the time / skillset / motivation / circumstances permitting

I think for me personally there's issues on multiple fronts

I mean, until the community moves off somewhere, it'll need to be maintained. And if that is the case, it needs moderators (exception handlers) to assist in that maintenance and represent its interests to SE. It's probably not a fun job right now, but direly necessary

while I still have a strong affection for the Water Cooler gang and a strong will to help folks I'm getting very tired of constantly feeling like actually achieving anything is an uphill battle all the time

I think this place is worth preserving, even if we have to preserve it in spite of rather then with support from SE inc

@Magisch honestly.. I'm not sure I believe that fully any more - maybe it's partly that I'm pretty tired and burned out right now (in general)

we can all sing a song of that

I'm planning to run unless enough people I trust to fill the spots nominate

@Magisch FWIW you'd have my vote

@motosubatsu thank you, that means a lot

@Magisch dislike of SO doesn't even factor into it. Though I DO have enough of a healthy distaste for it. There is a considerable frustration factor that goes beyond that.

@Magisch Also, what about this place do you think is worth preserving?

@motosubatsu I am boycotting all future elections, personally. Not running, not voting. I no longer care about the administration or governance of SE, just helping people.

The rest is just showmanship

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica The people and questions and answers here helped me tremendously to get a grip on workplace norms and behaviors, and I've used techniques and approaches suggested here to my own great personal benefit

especially because these don't really come naturally to me, it's been very useful

also I like most people in this chat and would like to continue having contact with them

@Magisch none of those need be exclusive to SE. I'm in communication with several people here off-site, which is why I put my email in my profile. Online sites come and go, and SE has a few useful years before it goes the way of Tech Republic or userfriendly.

On a personal note, @Magisch I've noticed the change in you over these few years, and it is impressive.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica The content here can still be maintained. We have a lot of useful Q/A here that needs attention to be kept up and curated. When/if a credible competitor springs up, I might move over

and it's all CC BY SA licensed so we can take our work with us if necessary

@Magisch The place has been deteriorating though, which is sad. the nastiness in the comments, the bad answers, it's annoying.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica Yeah, and I've been complaining about it. But I can't complain and at the same time not help fix it

not without hypocrisy, that is.

@Magisch It's a dilemma. But that's where SE's actions come in. The CMs have flatly stated that comments draw people in, and are letting the nonsense stay for entertainment value. The system is being gamed now, because people are coordinating flagging offsite, and if someone outside of the clique makes a comment they don't like, poof, gone in seconds.

the only way change can happen is by participating in the process

nothing is free and just pointing it out doesn't change it. So the way to get rid of OT comments is to flag them, and the way to combat degradation in quality is to get into maintaining it.

@Magisch yeah, I felt that way for a while. I think I was one of the most gung-ho people here. Then I decided, just for the hell of it, to run for mod. That's when I saw the cliquishness. Then, what happened to Monica showed me how evil the mob can be. I no longer feel any sense of community here.

As for the Monica mess. while she and I bumped heads a number of times, right is right and wrong is wrong. She didn't deserve what happened to her, and the fact that more people didn't rush to her defense or keep the pressure up disgusts me.

It really depends on the stack but for most of them power users actually do more for the communities than mods. We have a consensus of letting people decide what is suited and what is most and basically clean up the ugly and discriminating mess

@avazula a camel is a horse that was built on consensus

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica I ... did not get that.

@avazula it's an old joke. You set out to create a horse, but since consensus, rather than engineering is the goal, you end up with a camel instead

oh

well, FWIW I think it's healthy for mods to let the community handle things first. But it sure doesn't make our job easy

@avazula also, consensus is just a fancy name for mob rule. Which, if it were just that, then things would have eventually shaken out. But, what we have now is a directed mob. The mob is allowed to charge forward, but only in certain directions.

As for the discriminating mess, the only one to get "cleaned up" was monica

I think we're not talking about the same thing here

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica although it's not the best example.. since arguably a camel is better "engineered" than a horse

@motosubatsu Point being, you don't get what you set out. Better example would be Window Vista, or Windows 8

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica I ran last time and didn't win, but didn't get particularly abused or anything.

@Magisch The mob pics targets one at a time. Disagree with it once, or even ask a question the way monica did, and see what happens.

@avazula well, suffice it to say, I find the actions of the "community", as of late, to be a forceful argument in favor of my misanthropy.

I think Nietzsche was right. God is in fact, dead. He will remain dead, and we most certainly did kill him.

@Magisch Maybe. I'd have to learn more about the requirements of the role, and then decide if I want to commit the time or not.

@JoeStrazzere you'd be great at it, but I don't know if you'd want the stress that comes with it.

@JoeStrazzere I'd vote for you

@Magisch He'd be good at it, that's for sure. Being a moderator is taxing work though.

^^^ moderators can use new feature

yay....