@Kilisi Cheers! I hope all is well with you and yours.

@Rubiksmoose oh, it's all over the place now. Hacker news, Dev Rant, Facebook, and the more SE tries to tamp it down, the more fever pitched it gets

@RichardU When I said it isn't going to be carried out in public, I meant meaningful conversation. Not just laypeople and spectators. The only people that can have the discussion meaningfully are SE and Monica and possibly their legal representatives.

@Rubiksmoose i doubt it will end well, regardless.

@RichardU It might or it might not. I try to stay positive though because pessimism doesn't really benefit anyone here.

@Rubiksmoose I'm old, and jaded.

So it goes, eh?

@Rubiksmoose I've lived too long and seen too much to be that optimistic. I do envy those who still find the ability to be

cv-pls salary Too Broad what to expect from new employer in BPO sector?‭ - Sumanpreet kaur‭ 2019-10-22 04:33:53Z

I'm disappointed by this process. It would have to be actually neutral and transparent, e.g SE should not be involved in the decision process, and the evidence should be public as much as possible, or at least fully public to the former moderator, prior to any process.

I really wish that SE would separate the personal and professional hurt that they admitted they caused Monica from the reinstatement process. The reinstatement process will not ease that hurt and that loss of professional and personal reputation.

@Snow The first step to any sort of resolution in the eye of the community was always to alleviate the harm done to monica. This includes walking back the preposterous statements to the press, and making a public (to the press) personal apology to the specific instance of firing her. What this is is too little too late and not applicable.

Yes, that needs to happen. Regardless of the underlying reason for dismissal and the reinstatement, the public-facing damage should be addressed.

It seems to me it is at this point not going to, though. And monica has indicated she will not otherwise participate in the process

so we're back to "waiting for this to blow over" mode

I don't think the reinstatement process was ever going to be impartial in this case, unless the proceedings are made with absolute transparency. And I don't see that happening.

I mentioned it in my answer but imo to have any chance of being accepted as impartial the reinstatement process must not include SE. It needs to be heard and adjudicated if not publicly then by a panel of community-elected or randomly selected arbitrators

SE and especially senior management are going to taint the credibility of anything they're involved in for years to come. That's just a sad fact at this point

Considering the sensitivity of the central issue (if I interpret Caija's post in the Tavern), I really doubt that a third party would be involved in this case.

Nevertheless, Monica's reputation outside of SE is important. Very important.

make them sign a NDA if necessary. Wikipedia does that

If any collateral comes about from a fair and equitable handling of this case that is squarely on SE's shoulders anyways

At some point, they're going to have to do something. I don't think the community will allow nothing to happen.

I think everyone of us who has a negative opinion about the whole thing could leave, and they'd still be in business. Damaged, but in business

It seems like this is what Sr. Management wants anyways

The CMs have apparently been pushing back but Sr. Management has the last word.

Yeah. There's been a lot said, but no real action. The more things get said, the more "nothing" happens.

If 10% of all moderators resigning or ceasing their activity and 3 weeks of non stop public outrage can't make a dent, what else do we have left?

We can't do more then leave

I know. The resignations and strikes appear to have had no effect other than to make the rest of the CM team and moderators work more. There's been no appreciable effect on SE or SO that I can see. There's "regret", but "regret" doesn't solve anything.

This is because Sr. Management views complaining community members as a problematic liability rather then an asset.

"Let the bigots leave" seems to be the strategy.

I'd bet MSE will be closed or sunsetted at some point, because it's gotten "toxic"

There's always fires burning on MSE. But anyhow, I have flags to burn and code to write, and coffee to make.

Morning working people!

Oh right. Afternoon!

Afternoon ava :)

how's it going? :)

yeah not too bad.. pretty busy at work today, we've got a big integration test with a third party scheduled for tomorrow

oof. Fingers crossed!

did my duty today

yay :)

@Magisch oh, they'll have a business, but it will be a shadow of what it once was.

@ArthurHavlicek I am equally diligent

Man, sick dog at the vets, probably going to get operated on. Poor little thing is 11 years old.

@Snow :( sorry to hear it - same pooch as the other week?

@Snow ah, good luck with that

No. The labrador was ill to start with, but he's fine now. This is the mini Schnauzer.

@Snow :,(

Yeah. It's something stomach related.

Everyone could delete their profilesw and SE could close down tomorrow and they'd still have the best database of learning material in the World to monetise and an almost infinite number of ways to do so.

In fact in business terms it would be good for them, because they could then focus on moneytising

So assuming they are close to peak or just over it, now is the best time to do so. Basic exit strategy stuff

So just stall, bluff, defer and watch what happens.... hehe... either they're very clever ruthless business types... or the other alternative is they're smoking crack

@Kilisi that really makes sense.

yeah, because I've done it :-)

LOL

most things in life and business there is a bigger picture.... if you can get everyone focusing on a portion, you can accomplish quite a bit elsewhere if you see the whole picture.

business 101 ala Kilisi

@Kilisi very true, the old magician's trick of diversion

@RichardU old as politics man.... one minute everyones protesting about save the whales, next thing they're living in a swamp with the mosquitos renting their ancestors land from a foreigner wondering how it happened.

not even a trick, happens in plain sight, just no ones watching ;)

@Kilisi oh, yes indeed. seen it many times around here.

I think we should VTC this workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/146861/… asking what is a fair equity split is roughly the same as asking what a fair salary is, you can't answer that

idk, in the meantime ill give my opinion

@ArthurHavlicek I would, if I were voting any longer, that is/

@Magisch the official CoC post on Meta is now at -1911, and my post there with a +477 got deleted

ah well

@Magisch I am truly astpunded at how poorly this whole matter has been handled.

I'm beginning to think that Kilisi may be right about them doing it on purpose to shut down the entire network, and then market the answers

nah

there might be an element of getting undesirable users to leave, but not the entire network

@Magisch yeah, that worked out well for Tech Republic now didn't it?

It went from the #1 geek site to a wasteland

I'm not saying it's a viable way to do business

but they sure chased off us undesireables.

but I'm suffering from high levels of outrage fatigue

also pinging @Magisch doesn't ping me anymore

name is mag now

reload your chat window

@mag dang!

that happened quickley

I got some unsavory messages offsite so I'm making it harder for the minimal effort people to contact me

most likely only temporary

@mag oh, man, that sucks.

nothing new, and nothing creative

@mag when I'm bored, I correct their spelling and grammar.

this too shall pass

@mag yeah, I probably shouldn't engage them either, but I never let a bully get in the last shot. But then again, I was trolling neo-nazis back in the 90's, so that should give you some idea of how crazy I am

and after the end of it, I'll still be around, and whoever that is will have to live with what they've done

no reason to give people power over me

@mag to be honest, that's probably a bit healthier an attitude than I have.

disinterested apathy is troll poison

I developed that attitude in response to high school bullies

@mag back in the good old days of the USENET, we'd call what was termed a Passive Ignore Simultaneous Strike. Nice acronym, and it literally took it out of the trolls

@mag just don't let it bleed the passion out of you. Sometimes, a bit of rage and ruin is a good thing.

I just don't think it's worth spending emotional energy on

I have so many worthy things to be angry at

or happy about

@mag I often wonder what human emotions are like. As I don't have them

@RichardU they're overrated anyway....