The Water Cooler

Jane S

12:04 AM

@iLuvLogix I've said all I will say on this, I said to the powers-that-be what I needed to say, I have taken the action I felt I needed to take. I do believe there are some who have misconstrued the reasons we resigned, but repeating them won't change anything. I'm going to take a break away from SE for a while and spend time with my husband and kids. Take care :)

Kilisi

4:12 AM

@JaneS great idea, a bit of time with family is the best remedy for anything... brings it all back down to what is really important .... I was reading through all the drama (got bored after 2 seconds)... then had an idea about tinted varnish and chain and voila, got two coats on and a bunch of excited kids....

by the time I make the slide and the flying fox, all this moderator drama will be old news.

Snow

6:09 AM

After yet another sleepless night of tossing and turning and stealing all of the bedsheets, I can't take any more. I'm in conflict about how much I value this (Workplace) community and how little I value SE as a company and how it handles it's volunteers. That conflict has been roaring around in my head for weeks now (and stress makes my tinnitus worse). It's affected my relationship with my partner.

Stepping away isn't the answer for me, I have emotional ties to this place. I value supporting this community, I value the other users (you guys) supporting it. It pains me that it's being left and no one is sweeping up the leaves and chopping out the deadwood.

At around 2am this morning, I reached a resolution inside myself. I determined to not give in to this continuing conflict and let it eat me up. I have therefore formally asked to be reinstated as a moderator here to serve this community that I value more than SE appears to value me (as a moderator).

3

For full disclosure, this is the email I sent.

"I am requesting reinstatement as a moderator of The Workplace.

As much as I disagree with the manner in which Monica was removed, and multiple resignations/strikes have pressed home that the community at large was also not happy, I still value the community that the web site serves.

As much as in good conscious I could not serve a company that did this, I cannot in good conscious let this community unmoderated.

I love this community more than I love SE. There's my conflict. But the community wins - the customer must always come first, users must always come first.

4

If I do get reinstated, I really hope that you can find it within yourself to support me in supporting the users who come here for answers, and those who help others.

3

Or you can just kick me up the arse, your choice...

Martin Sleziak

7:02 AM

I'd guess that moderators might be suitable tag for "Heard a lot from mods on their way out". Although whether or not the questions are correctly tagged is probably not the most important issue right now. (I do not have enough reputation to edit on meta - that's why I posted the suggestion here instead.)

Anyway, it seems that the series of mod resignations hit your site harder than other communities - let's hope that Snow gets reinstated, which should help things at least in the short term.

Snow

@MartinSleziak Considering the question is at -16 votes right now, it might be better to let that one sink. If the OP wants to add the tag, then I won't remove it.

Martin Sleziak

Well, it has several answers, so it is not going to be self-deleted. (And I don't think it's going deleted by votes - although I am not sure what the customs are on this meta.)

Although when I display the questions sorted by recent activity (rather than newest - which I was viewing before), the question is already further from the top.

V2Blast

8:05 AM

@Snow Are the two mutually exclusive? ;)

Snow

You can do both, that's ok.

But only if I get reinstated. While I'm a normal user, my arse is my own property.

V2Blast

Haha. I'll keep that in mind :P

JoeTaxpayer

9:23 AM

@Snow - (at Money.SE) we just had one member offer a goodbye over this. I've been a mod there over 5 years now, and feel close to our community. I can disagree with what went down, but I'm not ready to walk away over this. It's a tough situation, but I know that WPS is better off for having you stay. I'm sure you'll get your diamond back.

Snow

9:35 AM

@JoeTaxpayer Thanks Joe. I really appreciate that. This decision doesn't retract from my disappointment with SE or validate them. I just want to help this part of this place.

3

Kilisi

10:23 AM

@Snow well done, I'm proud of you (Y)

Richard U

10:48 AM

@Snow I think all of us can understand your frustrations. All any of us here want is to help. That's why I am here, that's why Kilisi is here, et cet. We are all a bit protective and there has become a huge division between the community, and the SE corporation.

Snow

@Kilisi @RichardU Thanks a lot for the support. I will do what I can to support this place of ours.

Draken

Did you need some matches?

Richard U

@Snow Just don't take it to heart. You're not being paid, and even if this place ends up falling down, another one will come up. Sites come and go. I've seen it with Excite, Tech Republic, Userfriendly.org, and others. It's the same pattern, over and over.

If you are losing any sleep, you need to start to separate yourself emotionally. That doesn't mean you need to walk away, but you do need to consider yourself first.

Kilisi

11:18 AM

@Snow end of the day, if you stand up for us, we'll stand right there with you.... it's called respect

3

Joe Strazzere

11:38 AM

@Kilisi What's a flying fox?

Kilisi

@JoeStrazzere it's a steel wire on a slight angle that you put a pulley on and slide down.

Snow

@JoeStrazzere A large bat.

And what killisi said. To me though, they're large bats.

Kilisi

yeah, or a fruit bat....we eat them here, nice on a bbq

Snow

Fruit bat. That's the fella. It's a good thing I don't do quiz shows.

Joe Strazzere

@Kilisi Ah, I see. I think we'd call that a "zip line". Sounds like a lot of fun.

Kilisi

11:42 AM

I've never heard of a zip line, but you zip down the wire pretty quick, great fun

Monoandale

1:24 PM

thanks for suspending me, it was a fantastic experience that really changed my opinion of the moderation team. Please suspend me or censor me again, I love your attitude towards the opinion of those who criticize moderators, it's super cool.

Richard U

@Monoandale welcome to the club. all tallied, I've had several months worth of suspensions

"A man about to tell the truth, should keep one foot in the stirrup" - Mongolian proverb

To all concerned. When people are frustrated, and venting, suspending them does not help the frustration

It's even more frustrating when the person suspended ends up being the topic of conversation.

Draken

@Monoandale With that kind of attitude, what do you expect to change? Bring more positivity into the world, it's more fun

Richard U

2:11 PM

@Draken yeah, being dismissive of people doesn't help either. Nobody does anything without a reason.

Draken

@RichardU It does when you do it with a great smile on your face. Change isn't something that easily comes about by slowly chipping away at people with negative comments. If you can be more constructive, you tend to get a better response.

Richard U

2:28 PM

@Draken and when one feels ignored or disregarded, one is not likely to put their best foot forward. It works in both directions. Censoring and banning people for disagreement doesn't help. Just because some of us are more articulate than others does not invalidate their point.

People eventually reach their breaking point. Skilled management deals with things before they escalate, they do not hide behind no-apology apologies, stonewalling responses, and censoring disagreement.

Snow

2:44 PM

This isn't the platform for making comments about Stack Exchange as a company. You can do, but it won't really go anywhere. This also isn't a platform for complaints about the moderation team on TWP. If and when I'm reinstated, I'll simply remove and refer moderation complaints to the CM team (because that's what the process is).

My main aim is getting The Workplace back in track - or at least attempting to. And I do need help to take that forward in a positive manner that helps the users and helps us to keep the site on track.

Journeyman Geek

@Snow takes a lot of courage to do that

Good luck. I doubt you will have any trouble picking up the hammer ;)

Snow

I'm trying. I don't want to leave this place untended.

enderland

@Snow I know what you mean by this... it is difficult to fully emotionally divest yourself from something you care deeply about

Snow

@enderland I actually want some sleep as well.

enderland

Yep. It was not a small decision for me, when I stepped away - and that was knowing I'd be "missed" but not really needed

I think what I'm trying to say is that I empathize with you :-)

Mister Positive

2:57 PM

@Snow I did not sleep well either....

wife is getting ready for our day today, so I wanted to quickly let everyone know that I too have requested my diamond back.

3

Snow

@enderland Yeah, I see that. I spent a very long time thinking about this.

@MisterPositive Good to hear.

Mister Positive

Something @Kilisi said stuck with me on the drive, and he was right. I am still better off her serving versus just stepping away.

anywho, we'll see if my diamond is back when I return on Monday.

later folks!

Snow

Have a great weekend!

JoeTaxpayer

@MisterPositive - Glad to see this. Enjoy the weekend.

Mister Positive

@enderland good to see you online. hope all is well in your world!

@JoeTaxpayer Hopefully I can get it back :-)

enderland

3:06 PM

My understanding is SE will do so, given my questions when I resigned what feels like ages ago

Snow

@enderland Catija didn't shout me down when I pinged her. And I'm guessing they could really use some help and some good news right now. Just remains to be seen whether they want me back or not.

Catija

3:20 PM

:/

Y'all are good people.

I would have given it back last night if I could have. :)

Snow

@Catija I get prepared for the worst, and get surprised when it's better.... :D

Thanks, that really means a lot.

But I get that this is a tough situation and that SE want to decide whether to take people back or just get fresh blood and start over.

Catija

The reality that may not be understood is that... finding people to stand up to run in an election is not always easy. We're hurting. Many of these sites may have trouble finding replacements for very long-serving mods, particularly when there's no one left to hand hold the new mods.

We can not ignore the experience and knowledge of people just because they feel we handled this situation poorly and stood down in protest. As far as I'm concerned, you did nothing wrong to burn bridges.

Snow

Yeah, I know. And I'd be willing to cross-flow into another site, if only to process flags etc. I know that's more difficult though. I guess you read my Jerry Maguire script above, so you get where I am emotionally speaking.

Catija

I didn't, actually! Where does it start?

Snow

9 hours ago, by Snow

After yet another sleepless night of tossing and turning and stealing all of the bedsheets, I can't take any more. I'm in conflict about how much I value this (Workplace) community and how little I value SE as a company and how it handles it's volunteers. That conflict has been roaring around in my head for weeks now (and stress makes my tinnitus worse). It's affected my relationship with my partner.

and read down from there. there's a few messages before I finally walk off to the coffee machine.

Catija

3:28 PM

Aww, that's beautiful. :)

3

Snow

I mean it. And I want to serve this community. Hell, I need to serve this community.

I'd be disappointed if SE turns me down. I know I've said some things, but they've been born out of a passion for the community and seeing it served well.

Draken

Quick, one IV of TWP for Snow, stat!

Snow

@Catija Give SE a poke for me. I'm off for the weekend tonight. Out for a meal tonight and my partner's birthday tomorrow. It's nice to be able to do this with some optimism about the future.

Catija

@Snow Have a wonderful celebration!

Snow

@Catija Thanks!

Richard U

3:45 PM

@Snow That's why I so cleverly referred to "skilled management" in general, because management is, after all, a workplace issue. Just taking the specific to the general. I've had to handle customer complaints in the past.

In handling customer complaints, the first and most important thing you do is acknowledge the validity of a customer concern, fail to do that, and you are lost

That goes for any CS environment. How much that applies to recent events is purely coincidental.

enderland

@Snow this idea has come up many times over my SE years

Richard U

@Snow there are many ways to serve. One lesson I learned while I was homeless is that you are never without the power to help others. Back then, if I could do nothing else, I could listen to people, and say things to bring a smile.

Don't take things too much to heart

Monoandale

4:26 PM

Sorry, but how can moderation be fair and unbiased when the level of personal attachment to the role is so high? I understand the cliquish culture here, but the situation seems really out of control.

Journeyman Geek

@Monoandale why else do we do it?

Its not to the role. Its to the site and the community

Not even counting the drudge work of the flag queue

I certainly don't get a paycheck. My first SU T shirt has holes in it

enderland

@Monoandale imagine dealing with users who troll you, attack you, spam the site with crap, and otherwise are actively thwarting your efforts... it seems likely you'd only end up with people who have a high personal attachment

Richard U

4:44 PM

@enderland Ah, but that's the trap. Same one Law enforcement runs into, other professions as well.

Journeyman Geek

@RichardU they get paid 😁

Richard U

@JourneymanGeek indeed they do. Now, I've modded other sites before and even got a personal invite from a site to come moderate them, so I know the stress, and how much you'd like to smack someone, I really do. There are few things more frustrating than to have to be nice to someone you'd much rather launch into space without the benefit of a ship or spacesuit.

But you cannot let the actions of a minority make you jaded or cliquish

US vs THEM mentalities never work out well

enderland

My point is more someone who is casually invested is unlikely to stick around and deal with the negative aspects to being a mod @rich

Richard U

@enderland I understand your point, although I am not entirely certain I agree with that, as I believe a professional detachment makes for better moderation.

When I did it, I tended to make sure I didn't let any feelings, pro or con, get in the way.

But then again, I have alexithymia, so that is not much of a problem

enderland

detachment from individual circumstances yes; from overall site I'm less clear whether that's meaningful. I know when I was a mod, I would recluse myself from situations where I was deeply invested in the specifics (and/or request perspective from people less so)

Richard U

4:55 PM

@enderland that's not always easy, I understand that much. I have just never experienced it, as I simply cannot create very strong feelings around most people.

enderland

A significant strength of mine is passionately caring about things.

that's also a major weakness in times where I get major anxiety about things (like right now for RL reasons! hah)

Richard U

@enderland I envy you that, especially now. When my youngest was born, I felt nothing.

things have gotten better, but I have a very hard time attaching myself to anything

As you can imagine, such a state isn't fertile ground for lasting relationships

enderland

It's taken me a while to get attachment for our kiddo. the father is not very biologically relevant for a newborn for a long time....

Richard U

@enderland yeah, now I am i full Papa wolf mode.

At least I've got names for everything going on for me. It's strangely comforting when something has a name and a definition, because at least then it can be addressed

@enderland enjoy this time, you never get it back

enderland

Yep, that is definitely true

Richard U

5:58 PM

Well, I will say this much, the chat in here is more lively than it has been in months

DarkCygnus

6:37 PM

@RichardU agree on that

@Snow cool

Let's remember that one can still help the community without being a mod. At the end of the day, it's about helping others. I am currently not doing mod-ish things like reviews and flags, but I am still trying to answer and comment. I don't want the Community to suffer collateral "damage" from all of this.

Kilisi

7:38 PM

@Monoandale what did you get suspended for?

Richard U

7:52 PM

@Kilisi for expressing his displeasure in a rather spirited fashion.

@DarkCygnus I think we shouldn't take things too seriously. TWP tends to attract adults and the place isn't going to burn down, fall over, and then sink into the swamp if we don't moderate it 24/7

Pointy Haired Boss

8:11 PM

0

Q: Calm down, nothing to see here

Seriously, everyone, calm down. With or without moderators, we are all adults here, the place isn't going to collapse under it's own weight, get overrun by trolls, and get carried off into the swamp. We haven't had a mountain of nasty comments, troll questions, or spam. We don't need to go rus...

discussion

Kilisi

@RichardU yeah I was having fun spanking everyone in sight, if you're going to spank, no sense wearing kids gloves... ;)

Catija

@MisterPositive and @Snow I'm happy to announce that you've been reinstated as moderators, per your request. Your community is lucky to have you and your loyalty to them is admirable. Thank you.

7

enderland

enderland hides

2

Kilisi

@Catija excellent new

*news

@enderland take as long a break as you need sir, you've done more than your bit for years.... I've been looking forwards to seeing more answers from you anyway

Well done @MisterPositive and @Snow

DarkCygnus

@Snow @MisterPositive I see Diamonds :)

Kilisi

8:20 PM

@DarkCygnus yes, it's good news, I thought they'd hold elections and @RichardU would end up with a shiny stone,then we'd all be in trouble ;)

DarkCygnus

@Kilisi I thought it was more likely they took the results of the most recent election and reach to the candidates that didn't make it Mod last time

Kilisi

@DarkCygnus yeah, I thought Richard ran?

DarkCygnus

Moto also ran

I ran

snow and mr positive

Catija

Generally, we don't take runners up if it's been over six months.

DarkCygnus

huh, has it been that long?

Jeez this year has gone too fast!

Kilisi

8:26 PM

well, we still need more mods, I'd run, but I'm old and a bit senile and a bit of a bigot, I'd go off the rails pretty quick

plus, never got the hang of the PC thing

DarkCygnus

@Kilisi well, you have the Professionalism, Communication and Mangement gold tag badges

That means you have a binding vote (a.k.a. Hammer) on posts with those tags

(of which we have several)

So you have power to moderate even though without having a diamond :)

Snow

Thanks chaps. It’s a pleasure to serve again. I’m out with family right now. Normal service will be abused again soon. Thank you @Catija for the diamond.

Kilisi

@DarkCygnus ahaha.... I've no idea.... no ambition to do more than answer questions. Not even sure how I ammassed all this rep and badges

DarkCygnus

By being true to yourself and your style and giving good solid advice?

Richard U

If nominated, I will not run, if elected, I will not serve.

DarkCygnus

8:31 PM

Damn it's raining cats and dogs over here

Kilisi

fine Saturday morning here, I was going to put a third coat of tinted varnish on the kids fort, but they're all over it right now. So might as well join them for a bit

Richard U

Quick everyone, begin mass flagging, we don't want the mods to get out of practice.. :P

JK

DarkCygnus

djsmiley2k

yawn

why on why am i spending time grinding in a game, when i'm not really enjoying it either ;/

there was a coding thing at work I really wanna fix, but at the saame time I can't quite get my head around making it work :(

Mister Positive

9:05 PM

@Kilisi Thank you sir. Part of your recent post convinced me to reconsider.

@DarkCygnus Yes...

@RichardU there are a few already ;-}

@Catija Thank you. You have handled a difficult situation very well IMO.

Catija

@MisterPositive Happy to be able to facilitate things. :)

Mister Positive

@Catija I still want my swag..... ;-}

Catija

@MisterPositive I have some SO stickers I can send you?

Wait... did you email me about that already?

Mister Positive

@Catija Yep.

Catija

I've... kinda not sent those out yet. :(

Mister Positive

9:09 PM

@Catija no sweat, no hurry.

Catija

But ... I have the stuff and I'll get them to you. :D

Mister Positive

Gotta run, on a weekend trip with my wife drinking beer in the mountains. ;-} Back in biz on Monday. have a good one everybody!!

Pointy Haired Boss

2

Q: A big thank you to our mods

Just like to show some well earned respects to our mods who put our site first and foremost. I know it wouldn't have been the easy choice. So great job and welcome back!

discussion

Snow

10:09 PM

Congratulations to @MisterPositive for clearing flags. I can sleep easy tonight

DarkCygnus

11:09 PM

@MisterPositive I want swag :(

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