The Water Cooler

M.A.R.

6:59 AM

@RichardU Prove that your avatar is yellow and not purple.

SpringLearner

8:40 AM

Hello everybody

if My Application is a commerical application then can I use third party applications that comes under LGPL license

I wanted to use en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JasperReports

jasper report but I am not sure If I can use it or as it is covered under LGPL

Walfrat

@RichardU Well, in France i didn't have that trouble. However I removed my CV just 24h after posted it because I had interviews for 2 weeks. Those HR literally stole my morning >_>

Raoul Mensink

9:14 AM

@SpringLearner You sure you are at the right place?

SpringLearner

@RaoulMensink May be not . But I assumed my question is related to work so asked here

would you mind on which site should I ask if this is not the right place to discuss about it

Raoul Mensink

sec

you might ask here law.stackexchange.com or at softwareengineering.stackexchange.com

SpringLearner

thanks

Raoul Mensink

You could also try their Website. community.jaspersoft.com/project/jasperreports-library/answers. They seem to do a decent Job in answering in an timely fasion. @SpringLearner

SpringLearner

@RaoulMensink thanks again

Raoul Mensink

9:25 AM

no problems

DoritoStyle

1:41 PM

33

A: Is it ethical to offer female candidates a higher wage to achieve a more diverse work environment?

The company is not doing anything morally wrong, and there should be no repercussions. In a recent conversation with my financial manager, she disclosed to me that one of the reasons I have a higher wage was rarely do they see women interviewees, and when they do, they ask for more compensati...

@MaskedMan surely you realize that your comments on that answer are hostile and not constructive.

Richard U

2:08 PM

@DoritoStyle quit being the PC police

Masked Man

@DoritoStyle Why so? Just because it calls out people's hypocrisy, and disagrees with your world view?

Kaz

@DoritoStyle He's being deliberately provocative to make a point. It's a good point, effectively made. I'd call it neither hostile nor unconstructive (unless you're referencing comments that have since been deleted).

Richard U

@Kaz correct. The be nice policy doesn't mean don't point out things people might not like.

Tomas Zubiri

3:04 PM

Ethical pickle: You see in a management document that, a project you completed by yourself recently, was estimated to save your company 60K$ a year. But you suspect that there might have been a mistake in the valuation, and that in reality it's closer to 15K$ a year.
Is it ethical to keep silent about this? Would you raise this issue to the attention of your manager?

David K

@TomasZubiri What is the purpose of this document? Will it affect budgeting, or does it just serve to say "Look how great our employees are!"?

Tomas Zubiri

Look how much money our employees are saving.

*your

David K

@TomasZubiri I would probably mention it as an aside to your manager, in private, but not make a big deal out of it. There's always the possibility that there are other factors you don't know about going into that number.

You're still saving them $15k

Kaz

3:19 PM

@TomasZubiri Depends. Who made that calculation, did it rely on your input at all, and if you say nothing, is there any way it might be construed as you agreeing with that figure?

Unless you had input on calculating it, or you're being asked in some way to review it, I'd say not your problem.

Tomas Zubiri

@Kaz I had absolutely no input on the calculation and no one expected me to read it.

I take it it's pretty borderline.

Kaz

@TomasZubiri I'd say it's not your problem, and you should just leave it as it is.

There's also a very good chance that either you are underestimating the effect of your project across the entire organisation, or that the number is deliberately optimistic so your manager/ their manager/etc. can use it as self-promotion within your organisation.

@TomasZubiri In either case, you going to your manager, whilst well-intentioned, could end up negatively for you, and is unlikely to do you any good.

Stack Exchange

-1

Q: What is a workplace?

This may seem very silly to ask, but I've been annoyed on this website by the following closing reason: •This question does not appear to be about the workplace within the scope defined in the help center. Going to the help center, I expect to find at least a basic definition of what the/a wor...

1

Q: How to strike a balance between the "be nice" policy and the fake-offended.?

Recently, we've seen some rather forceful assertions that words as inoccuous as "he" being made controversial. A more gray area is the word troll, which is apparently now on the no-no list, so I'll have to find another way to describe my posting to elicit a response made in a less than cuddly man...

discussion

Tomas Zubiri

I'm pretty sure it's my manager being deliberately optimistic about it. I think that is even less ethical.

Kaz

@TomasZubiri Also not your problem, and you going to them, especially if using something with a paper trail (e.g. email) is going to make their position more difficult, and they are unlikely to reward you for it.

David K

3:46 PM

I definitely agree, no paper trail. I think a lot depends on knowing your boss and how receptive you think he would be to your feedback. There's nothing ethically wrong with keeping your mouth shut, but a good boss may be appreciative of the warning.

DoritoStyle

@RichardU re: "quit being the PC police" You have no place to give me such commands. I'll point out crappy language when I see it.

@MaskedMan @kaz the deleted comments were anything but constructive.

Saying things like "women whining" etc.

There's 'provocative' and then there's flat-out needlessly hostile.

Kaz

@DoritoStyle Klkl.

DoritoStyle

I have no idea what "klkl" means :)

Kaz

@DoritoStyle Spoken: "Cool. Cool". For me, it's shorthand for "read and understood. It's all good."

DoritoStyle

@kaz copy that

Kaz

3:56 PM

^^

Richard U

4:15 PM

@DoritoStyle your comments in here are not constructive. I find your tone offensive. The term "crappy" is highly offensive, please change that to "scatological" in the future to avoid offense.

ArtOfCode

@RichardU Since I can't tell: are you being serious?

Richard U

@ArtOfCode I have synesthesia and an eidetic memory, so when someone uses graphic language, it is literally something I see, so....

yes

ArtOfCode

In general, can I suggest that both you and @DoritoStyle leave moderation to the moderators? If someone's being hostile or their tone is needlessly combative, just flag it and move on. You're trying to moderate each other at the moment, which just isn't going to go well.

@RichardU Yeah... while crappy isn't the best choice of words, it's also not that offensive, generally. It'd be better for everyone to just avoid using it at all.

DoritoStyle

For reference, I actually tried to engage a different user about their language on the main site before RichardU hit me with the "PC Police" thing. I don't know if that changes everything, but I think my initial statement above was more than reasonable and didn't warrent such a responce.

In any case, I'm willing to move on.

Richard U

@ArtOfCode I smell it too when I see the word. It's a mixed bag. When things are nice, I feel them on multiple levels. Seeing good music is something I wish I could share with everyone

Nick Volynkin

4:26 PM

@RichardU seeing or smelling disgusting things doesn't seem to be offensive. It's unpleasant, sure. But there seemed to be no actual intent to offend anybody.

ArtOfCode

Moving on is probably the best course at this point...

Raoul Mensink

@ArtOfCode can I ask you an question?

Kaz

@NickVolynkin How is being offended because of an actual, physical result of reading certain words less valid than being offended because you think somebody is being insulting, or insensitive, or otherwise offensive?

DoritoStyle

Intent

Ability to hold back

Many other reasons

Raoul Mensink

4:43 PM

Ability to hold back is for the Person doing the insulting, not the one being insulted.

Nick Volynkin

@Kaz I think that the crucial difference is the intent of the speaker. If you're not sure of the intent, you always can ask.

@Kaz Just imagine a situation where I'm a sensitive person with good imagination, and when you write about "somebody being insulting, or insensitive, or otherwise offensive", I imagine all that and get offended myself.

Would you consider yourself an offender in such situation? I guess you won't.

DoritoStyle

good points

Raoul Mensink

@NickVolynkin How about this? An bully is someone who hurts someone. Words physical "can't" hurt someone. So I can't become an bully by insulting you.

Kaz

@NickVolynkin IMO, being offended is an entirely separate thing from whether the speaker intended to offend or not.

Nick Volynkin

@RaoulMensink Looks like we speak about two different things.

Kaz

4:54 PM

Intent should be used to judge response.

I'm just trying to make a point that people can be legitimately offended, regardless of whether the speaker intended to be or not.

DoritoStyle

@RaoulMensink to reiterate my earlier thoughts: A smell is offensive, but the person making the smell didn't necessarily intend to offend.

The exact thing can be said about words, but you have almost infinite different ways in which to construct a phrase, so being offensive counts as a **choice** at that point.

Nick Volynkin

@RaoulMensink Sure, insulting is offence.

Raoul Mensink

@DoritoStyle the one makeing the smell is responsible for it. And thus if someone is offended by the smell it is offending regardless of intent. As that doesnt matter.

DoritoStyle

That's exactly what I said

You can be offended at the smell, but you shouldn't be offended at the person for making it (unless they make it clear that they're farting to annoy you or something, which requires words IMO)

Raoul Mensink

So why argue that it is not valid when it is?

DoritoStyle

4:58 PM

And the person making the smell shouldn't necessarily be punished for making it. Words, on the other hand, you almost certainly have a choice about how to phrase them.

Raoul Mensink

that brings back intent which you just agreed to that it doesnt matter

DoritoStyle

So you can apologize or clarify your intent, or you can choose to give malicious intent.

Nick Volynkin

@RaoulMensink Ok. Richard here says that usage of word 'crappy' offends him because he smells the word. But he demands that instead the word 'scatological' should be used. To me it looks much like a sarcasm because it has 'scat' in it, which is basically the same (and should smell the same).

DoritoStyle

@RaoulMensink I don't see your counterpoint here.

@NickVolynkin, eh, that's not really a good example because 'crap' is considered a (very) low-level profanity by many.

ArtOfCode

@RaoulMensink sure

Raoul Mensink

5:01 PM

@ArtOfCode how come that when something happens here some mod fixes it, but for the last weeks if it is Richard vs dorito its you + others?

ArtOfCode

Because I've been the one picking up on the flags

Nick Volynkin

@DoritoStyle yeah, and I agree that it should better not be used in this (or any other) chat. In such case I'd ask the person to use the phrase 'profane/offensive/bad/ language' instead.

Raoul Mensink

thanks, that bugged me for a while now.

Kaz

@RaoulMensink At least in chat, things are generally fixed by whichever Mod is around at the time.

DoritoStyle

I'd also wager that our bickering is not really a high value target ^_^

Kaz

5:03 PM

This is also why a series of chat flags will invariably draw a sudden influx of blue-named users into the room.

ArtOfCode

Also, there's some bias towards it being me between around 0800-0100 UTC, because I do a lot of chat moderation

Richard U

I rarely flag, but it does seem that we have someone who is intent on pestering the mods

ArtOfCode

@RichardU Not pestering, just informing.

I've had a couple of very informative flags from here recently, custom flags, from one user

Richard U

@ArtOfCode give it time.... give it time....

Raoul Mensink

xD

DoritoStyle

5:05 PM

@RichardU that goes back to "assuming good intentions"

ArtOfCode

I like people who use custom mod flags on anything that isn't clear-cut. They make my job so much easier

Richard U

@DoritoStyle Sorry, had way too rough a life to do that.

DoritoStyle

@NickVolynkin re: profanity, on the other hand, I believe the general Meta has upheld that allowing profanity in chat only can be decided on a site-by-site basis. I don't see any specific discussion about it on the WorkPlace Meta, but I think @ArtOfCode has given us the guidance we need for the now

Richard U

@ArtOfCode how do you custom flag?

ArtOfCode

@RichardU message dropdown menu, flag for moderator

Richard U

5:06 PM

is that all, or is there another step?

Raoul Mensink

@ArtOfCode I thought you couldnt see the users on flags?

DoritoStyle

@RichardU that is a pinnacle of the be nice policy. If you can't follow that simple guidance how can you expect to be constructive to the community?

ArtOfCode

Yeah, there's a slightly higher tolerance of profanities in chat than there is on the main site. That doesn't mean you can go around cursing like drunk truckers, though.

Nick Volynkin

@RichardU sure, you have to write a message )

ArtOfCode

@RichardU well, you gotta type out what you want to tell us, but other than that, no

Richard U

5:08 PM

@ArtOfCode okay, thanks.

ArtOfCode

Go ahead and try it on this message. Mods: flags on this are for science.

Raoul Mensink

Please do not use this feature for anything other than informing moderators of serious issues that require their attention.

Please indicate why this requires moderator attention:

testd it

Yep, just like that

K, cool

5:08 PM

@RichardU As Joe would say: Just do it!

ArtOfCode

@RaoulMensink on regular flags, we can't see the user most of the time (with a few exceptions). On moderator custom flags, we can always see the user

Richard U

makes more sense than moderation in most places

Raoul Mensink

right, that makes sense

ArtOfCode

Which is part of the reason I like them, because someone who uses a custom flag and knows their name will be sent along with it is less likely to try anything funny

Richard U

My $.02 mods in here don't seem to be on power trips as on other non-SE sites

Its much easier to deal with mods that take the site they are moderating seriously

ArtOfCode

5:10 PM

Moderators on SE in general are excellent moderators. Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think you'll find a better large group of moderators anywhere on the Internet.

DoritoStyle

Yes, Mods here have a very light touch all things considered.

Richard U

@ArtOfCode I agree

Raoul Mensink

@NickVolynkin well going back to my main Point. You can't say something is not offensive on just because you think so though one could overreact on the offence.

Richard U

The moderation of the 2016 election room was amazing

Raoul Mensink

@ArtOfCode I have seen a couple where I doubted our system. They arent here anymore though.

ArtOfCode

5:12 PM

@RaoulMensink thus, the system worked :)

Richard U

@RaoulMensink and some people use being offended as a kind of currency. People are starting to catch on though. one site has been promoting the "fake offended" hastag

ArtOfCode

People who aren't cut out to be SE moderators tend to either leave or get removed

DoritoStyle

"fake offended" also breaks the "assume good intent polcity"

sorry, but are we going to just gloss over the fact that @RichardU flat-out refused to follow that policy above?

Richard U

@DoritoStyle I'm talking about other sites

Raoul Mensink

@ArtOfCode I doubt the System got annything to do with it.

Richard U

5:14 PM

@RaoulMensink I agree, I think it's good people making the system work

ArtOfCode

@DoritoStyle looks like it yeah :) I didn't see anything wrong, care to point me at it?

Nick Volynkin

@RaoulMensink no, that's not what I meant.

Raoul Mensink

dorito that also breaks the assume good intent policy

DoritoStyle

@ArtOfCode To be clear: are you asking me what is wrong with a user refusing to follow the Be Nice policy?

ArtOfCode

Oh that. Yeah... meh. Not much we can do about that, unless it becomes a future problem

DoritoStyle

5:15 PM

I am not commenting on intent, I am pointing out a specific action taken by this person.

OK.. I would argue that it has already proven to be a problem resulting in this chat room being frozen multiple times :/

Richard U

I'm going to be good and let the mods handle this one

ArtOfCode

Know what that is?

Raoul Mensink

an gray Image.

png to be exact

ArtOfCode

sigh

DoritoStyle

Möbius strip?

Kaz

5:16 PM

@ArtOfCode The setup to a good "Why did the chicken cross the ... " joke?

Nick Volynkin

moebius

or what is the right spelling for that )

ArtOfCode

Mobius strip, yeah. One-sided object. Infinitely looping. Right now, it's a pretty good analogy for this chatroom :)

Raoul Mensink

Has this room been frozen recently though?

Richard U

@Kaz Do you know why the libertarian chicken crossed the road? A:"Am I being detained? Am I free to go?"

DoritoStyle

OK, I won't pursue it for now. One question though, At what point does the same action deserve a responce?

ArtOfCode

5:18 PM

soooo... can I suggest we drop this? If you don't get on with someone else, maybe it's time to use that little ignore option on their user menu (click their avatar).

Raoul Mensink

There is such an Thing? O.o

ArtOfCode

@DoritoStyle There's no one answer to that. It depends on a whole load of things, and knowing those is what makes a moderator a moderator.

DoritoStyle

I think it's damaging the site and it spills over to the Q/A, not just chat. I don't see a good venue to appeal this though.

ArtOfCode

What makes a good moderator is knowing when to apply 'em and when to ignore 'em.

@DoritoStyle I don't see what you think the problem is.

Richard U

Okay, now I am sincerely feeling targeted for abuse

Raoul Mensink

5:19 PM

@RichardU why?

DoritoStyle

You are being targeted as a result of your actions. I think I'm remaining very polite.

Richard U

@RaoulMensink ^^^^^^

Raoul Mensink

I dont see anyone targeting you though?

DoritoStyle

Breaking the Be Nice policy on multiple occasions and stating it won't be followed in the future; I see this as a problem, but if the mods don't agree then there's no further action I can take.

Richard U

@RaoulMensink another user is trying to get the mods to act against me

ArtOfCode

5:21 PM

and what makes an experienced moderator is knowing when to sigh heavily and hold your head in your hands because people can't agree to disagree

hint hint

DoritoStyle

Do you deny your actions?

Raoul Mensink

then use the button on him? I did.

DoritoStyle

~~fin~~