The Water Cooler

PaulDonny

6:01 PM

I am seeing a trend of several answers that are borderline identical in a lot of questions:-/

enderland

@PaulDonny yup

PaulDonny

http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/21588/who-do-i-listen-to-my-boss-or-my-team

Does all of those answers say the exact same thing to you?

RhysW

@Chad :/ steve

@Chad side note, we now have a house rabbit!

Chad

:)

Is it an english lop?

RhysW

brought one of them in from outside, as it was getting bullied, and trained it not to poop everywhere. now its our stay indoors rabbit

we let it out to run around obviously

Chad

6:05 PM

cool

RhysW

but it also has free reign over the living room

Rachel

What do you think, is this mod-nominee question too "leading" towards either position?

0

A: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Do you think your actions towards lower-quality posts will be more like an Exception Handler or a Janitor? To put it another way, do you prefer to sit back and let the community try to resolve if questions should be closed or open on their own, or do you prefer to step in as soon as you can to t...

RhysW

@Rachel ooh thats a good one

Rachel

:) It was one that got asked during the SO mod election, but some users said the way I had it phrased there was too leading towards one direction

trying to avoid that this time

RhysW

@Rachel my honest answer is 'Yes', different situations will call for different interaction

Rachel

6:07 PM

I realize both moderation styles are used and needed, but I want to know which way mod candidates will lean towards more than others

RhysW

damn, invalidated my answer :P

Rachel

:)

I added that to the bottom... I didn't like that so many mod candidates left their answer of "I do both depending on the situation"

I realize both styles of moderation are valid and needed, and simply want to know which way candidates lean :)

RhysW

If it's something I think I can fix I would either edit it into shape and explain to the user what I have done so they can see first hand and learn from a demonstration. If it's something I don't think I have the capacity to fix myself I would probably leave a comment explaining how they themselves could improve their post. After either action it would be up to the community if they deem it fit or not

Rachel

@RhysW That's the kind of answer I would hope to see from candidates :) Not necessary the exact answer you said just there, but the way it's said

RhysW

awesome, then your question isnt phrased with bias!

as answering like that was how it came to mind

Chad

6:12 PM

its seems almost a dup of : meta.workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/2460/…

Rachel

Hrrmm I don't think I'd get the answer I'm looking for from that question though

Chad

Though I think I prefer the straight forward what are you more likely to do question

Rachel

I think mod answers to that one would tell me what they would do to encourage the community to contribute, which is also one I have upvoted :)

Chad

Though I suspect you and I are looking for opposite answers to that question

Rachel

lol it does affect how I vote yes, however I also recognize that both answers are equally valid, and someone saying the opposite will likely garner votes from a different group of users :)

Its not the only answer that would decide my vote

and if I recall correctly, in smaller sites there aren't many votes, and your vote does matter a lot

Chad

6:15 PM

Though I think I would get rid of the first line seems like it might be unintentionally insulting

enderland

I'd just delete the answer and worry about it later

Rachel

I did it that way because there is a lot of meta posts labeing moderators as either "exception handlers" or "janitors"

RhysW

@enderland :D

@Rachel can i be a janitor handler?

Chad

@enderland Which is why you would get my vote :p

Rachel

Originally the intention was that moderators be "Exception Handlers", however nowadays they are mostly a "Glorified Janitor"

Chad

6:16 PM

I still do not think that line adds anything to the question

Rachel

Different SE sites need both types of moderators :)

Chad

The core of the question is great

Rachel

Hrrm ok

Chad

Honestly I think of them as janitors for exception handling:p

Rachel

I've taken your opinion into consideration and decided to leave it in :)

For now

RhysW

6:17 PM

@Rachel ' I appreciate your concern, but you are wrong' :P

Rachel

Could leave a comment though, so other users could upvote if they agree with you

haha I didn't say he was wrong, just that I've decided to leave it in

if I change my mind later, I'll remove it :)

RhysW

im just pulling your leg :)

Rachel

or if "new evidence" presents itself that other users think that line is insulting ;)

enderland

the thing is no one downvotes bad answers but chad, me, and jmac here

Chad

Its not me they are going to be offended by :P and I think the play nice policy is over moderated.

Rachel

6:19 PM

People take the time to come contribute and share their opinions on this site for free. I like to avoid punishing them for it unless I think they are completely wrong, or offensive in some way

enderland

community moderation only works when it happens, though

Rachel

And even then, if they are wrong but have no upvotes, or are strongly outvoted by another opposite answer, then I just ignore it

Chad

if you cant keep from getting your diaper in a bunch cause someone said something insulting to you then dont comment in the first place.

Rachel

I like to encourage people to keep contributing if possible

and not simply drive away the ones I don't like

Like that Chad, might offend many people :)

Chad

@Rachel let me get my fiddle...

Rachel

6:21 PM

But I'm the same way on almost all SE sites... I rarely downvote unless I feel a post needs to be pushed down in some way, and it isn't already at the "bottom"

enderland

I think the biggest thing is you cant just downvote content if you want to change the user

downvoting + a comment is unbelievably effective

Rachel

Yeah, I totally agree with that :)

enderland

a comment basically says "hey I care but not really enough"

Rachel

downvoting + no comment simply drives away users

enderland

a downvote basically says "F U"

neither changes their posting style

Rachel

6:22 PM

depends on if the user is new or not, and aware of what "rules" they're violating or not

most people want to do what's considered "right"

many just need education on what a community considers to be "right"

often a friendly comment does more than a downvote+unfriendly comment explaining

enderland

disagree

at least on this site, perhaps others are more receptive to that

but I do lots of all three of those

Rachel

yeah, its fine to disagree with me :)

enderland

comments with lots of upvotes nearly never cause people to change

Rachel

I know I'm more of a "sunshine and roses" type of person who prefers to try and see the best in people, and I'm frequently wrong

well yeah, I wouldn't comment-instead-of-downvote AND upvote :)

enderland

I meant that to say lots of downvotes, but, that's also true for a comment with lots of votes onit

Rachel

6:25 PM

downvoting is just one of those tools that can be used to help educate users, and I don't view it as necessarily being needed to control content on the site

enderland

it might not be needed

but it's unbelievably effective combined with a comment

people react to a downvote , they don't to a comment

Rachel

yes, but you want to promote a positive reaction, not a negative one

enderland

which is why you have a comment explaining why

generally people really hate "this sucks" with no explanation. but people are much more receptive to "this sucks, here's why" even if they get a harsh explanation

Rachel

I'm not disagring that comment + downvote is a great tool :)

enderland

"this sucks, but here's a good way to fix the problems - welcome to the site!" is about a zillion times more effective than either a comment or downvote by themselves

Rachel

6:27 PM

"this sucks and here's why" is not as well received as "since you're new here you may not understand, but here's why your post is considered bad. please fix it"

the thing is, saying "this sucks" or "F U" automatically puts the user on the defensive

and they're less likely to listen to you

(assuming of course, that "this sucks" and "F U" is referring to downvotes as we were discussing) :)

haha this is why I stay away from this site :)

I can't get any work done when I visit cause you guys are too damn friendly and talkative

3

CMW

Thank you for taking your time, reading the mentioned post. Unfortunately it's not comprehensive. I agree with Chad, this is a question that needs an answer from a lawyer. The part whether your actions are covered by these terms your lawyer should be able to answer. The part about whether they would enforce what's in the contract, their lawyer certainly will know the answer to. — CMW 1 min ago

enderland

6:49 PM

@Rachel such a true statement. LOL

PaulDonny

There is several people in my field that have inspired me. They, I am sure, are unaware of who I am completely but from reading their blogs and websites, I would like to learn as much as I possibly could from them and have them help me guide my career in a better path long term.

Since I do not personally know these people and they likely have no clue I even exist, what would be a good approach to contact these people in an attempt to learn as much about my field as possible.

Any suggestions for adding to that question to make it more specific/less of a discussion?

enderland

7:04 PM

0

Q: Is it considered discriminatory to base hiring decision on a planned career in the armed forces?

I've been presented with a pretty interesting hiring situation, and I am curious if discrimination laws (USERRA, specifically) apply in such a case. I work for a firm that is hiring summer interns. Like most places, the goal with the intern program is to see how they will do in our work environm...

this seems like a legal question but I think it is answerable without requiring a lawyer? I'm not sure

PaulDonny

@enderland I thought the same exact thing. Ultimately, in my eyes, if bad advice is given it could result in A lot of trouble

If I was to take a stab in the dark, since he has 0 commitment to join the military it isn't legal but I personally would want a lawyer's opinion regarding it

enderland

The part asking how USERRA applies to your situation strikes me as asking to interpret the law and apply it to this situation. This is off topic for this site because If a question requires a lawyer to answer it, we can't help. These situations are simply too specific and too complex to definitively answer on our site.. — enderland 1 min ago

The other parts of your question are appropriate here, if you want to edit this post to focus on that it would be a great question which is much more on topic here. — enderland 33 secs ago

lolwut

Opaque process to deny raise and promotion. — otti 6 mins ago

PaulDonny

lmfao

That's like saying 'You don't need to worry about what I do, just give me $$'

enderland

@otti so you are asking, "if I don't participate in my companies performance review, can they give me whatever rating they want?" — enderland 7 secs ago

enderland

7:36 PM

0

Q: How to handle applying for multiple jobs at once (with different companies)

I have been applying for jobs for the summer and after a long period of inactivity many are calling me back all at once. It's slightly stressful and I'm worried I will take a job only to get an offer from a one I would have preferred. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening? I d...

professionalism job-search

41

Q: How do I coordinate the process of pursuing multiple job opportunities at the same time?

In the hot field of software engineering, a competent programmer wanting to switch jobs will be able to apply and interview easily for at least a half dozen jobs. However, coordinating the speed at which the interview and eventually offer process occurs can be a nightmare. For example, I intervi...

professionalism interviewing hiring-process

nearly verbatim dups

PaulDonny

Yeah

Moderating this site must be a pain'

Chad

@PaulDonny - I think thats a great question\ BTW

workplace.stackexchange.com/q/21626/16

That question is answerable and its not really asking for a legal opinion

PaulDonny

Not found

Chad

you need more rep

PaulDonny

oh

Well that's a no brainer, doesn't every one?

Are you referring to the question regarding the legality of refusing employment due to future military service?

RhysW

8:15 PM

annnnnnnnnnd im back

Chad

@PaulDonny yeah

RhysW

0

Q: Lies, damned lies, and CVs

How much can I lie on my CV? I know that claiming to have a degree that you don't have would be too much, and bring me into legal trouble, beyond being fired. But can I get away with following stuff? did French at school, never used it, it's rusty, but I have a certificate that claims I am pro...

resume

Chad

@101 - The USERRA Only applies to people who already have positions and decide to join the military, or are returning to work after serving if they followed the appropriate process when they left. So No it would not apply

Rachel

8:31 PM

@RhysW Yeah, someone needs to post the obvious answer to that one

I edited the title a bit

Depending on the culture, this is a very valid question for some people

PaulDonny

@Chad I agree 100% and having an intention to join vs. an obligation is a huge difference, but even though it seems to be an obvious legal answer, it is still a legal question, correct?

Chad

@PaulDonny Legal questions are fine... Questions asking for legal advice are different

If he had said my company is considering dening employment to a person specifically because the indicated their intent to join the military. Are we at risk? that would be a question asking for legal advice

Or even if they asked if they could under existing laws or specific laws

But if he asked what the risks are for doing that we could answer

Most legalish questions we get can be edited to be acceptable pretty easily the others dont usually need editing but people fail to see the difference between asking about the law and asking for legal advice

PaulDonny

8:47 PM

ok I guess

Chad

OK this is bad... I was trying to think of steven hawking ... typed the smart guy in the wheelchair into google... and he is the first result.

CMW

Bad because of you stereotypization or googles direct line to your brain?

or because we have so few smart handicapped people?

:)

enderland

9:02 PM

@Chad reading through USERRA's documentation makes this not as clear, especially if the potential intern is in ROTC types of programs

because of this it is way more complicated

Chad

@enderland It depends if it is a ROTC Scolarship or if you are just in the ROTC Program. The scholarship indicates a commitment to military service

enderland

@Chad right, it's committment but it's NOT "employment"

Chad

you could go ROTC in college and not go into the military after

enderland

also there are complications with part-time vs FT work distinctions with USERRA

Chad

But if you have a scolarship you are obliged to the military service... so that is where the protections would take effect

enderland

9:05 PM

@Chad it's an internship though, which may be classified as "not full-time" - the law looks really vague as to how it applies to that sort of stuff

a lot of it looks more at preserving "reemployment" rights too, internships complicate that a lot too

PaulDonny

And the fact that these sorts of arguments can be made by a lawyer makes that question legal advice

Chad

@enderland exactly. It is really hard to prove you did not hired because of a commitment. But getting denied the right to return is different. An internship is by design a temp job

so its not going to apply there

PaulDonny

@Chad Unless you post regarding it on a public Q&A site

Chad

@PaulDonny No. A lawyer can argue that driving faster than the speedlimit is speeding... that does not make it legal advice to say that you should not speed

enderland

@Chad hrrmm I think your quoting me is going to convince me I'm actually right :P

Chad

9:09 PM

How should I or my company do X? is asking for legal advice

@enderland You are incorrect, I am trying to convince you that I am right and you share my opinion :p

Or am I or my company going to get in trouble if we do X

What does the law say about? is a question of fact

enderland

I guess I read that question as effectively asking, "can we discriminate against an intern application who expresses military service after graduation"

PaulDonny

@enderland That is how I read it as well

enderland

USERRA just happens to be the act the asker is aware of

Chad

The question is what does the law say so that I can make my own decision... that is the right way to ask it

yeah what does the specific law say

if it were asking the more general what do all the labor laws say about X it would be a legal advice question

enderland

I don't like it still though because of the implication that "oh USERRA is ok, we can discriminate based on this now" - even if USERRA is 100% applicable

Chad

9:14 PM

because there we are being asked to form a legal opinion about all of the laws that could apply

enderland

and understod

Chad

@enderland There are lots of laws I dont like... that is why i fully expect one day the Feds will knock on my door about one of my facebook posts

enderland

dol.gov/vets/usc/vpl/usc38.htm

> (c) An employer shall be considered to have engaged in actions prohibited-
(1) under subsection (a), if the person's membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service in the uniformed services is a motivating factor in the employer's action, unless the employer can prove that the action would have been taken in the absence of such membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service; or

> (a) A person who is a member of, applies to be a member of, performs, has performed, applies to perform, or has an obligation to perform service in a uniformed service shall not be denied initial employment, reemployment, retention in employment, promotion, or any benefit of employment by an employer on the basis of that membership, application for membership, performance of service, application for service, or obligation.

though... looks like "going to be in" doesn't qualify for the "member of" type of thing

PaulDonny

Chad, even in your situation where they are asking regarding the specifics of the law wouldn't that be considered off-topic?

enderland

workplace.stackexchange.com/q/21626/2322

more undelete votes?

CMW

9:19 PM

@enderland hand me some? :)

enderland

need moar rep

Chad

@PaulDonny If they are asking for facts it is fine. if they are asking for opinion its not

CMW

@enderland gimme :)

Chad

That is the easiest way to determine

CMW

workplace.stackexchange.com/a/21639/10912 and workplace.stackexchange.com/a/21635/10912 :)

enderland

9:20 PM

@Chad from reading the actual law I'm undecided now whether or not an intern doing some sort of "pre military" would be covered

Chad

There are only 5 of us that have the rep to do it and I think it takes 5

which would be 100% of the rep able users, and i doubt that Joe and Beth will check here

PaulDonny

@enderland I think I could say with 99.9% confidence there is nothing to prevent them from doing this

That being said, recommending that it would be legal to do so would be legal advice. Referring them to the law(s) that would protect them would be in my opinion (a) Off-Topic and (b) legal advice as laws vary from location to location and situation to situation

Chad

@enderland When you get a ROTC Scholarship you have to take the oath. You get similar status to a reserve or guard member who has not gone through basic. They can call you up and rush you through basic... What they dont tell the recruit is that you can back out simply by not taking the oath at the Induction Center is that you can back out

@PaulDonny But you could say that there is nothing in the law that specifically mentions any protections for this.

I have actually changed my mind on that question...

PaulDonny

To me either way it falls into either (a) legal or (b) off-topic. It's either a question asking for legal advice or a question about the law. Not to mention the fact that I think it's pretty unethical personally though I understand their reasoning

Chad

Its about employment law which is part of navigating the workplace. Some things, Like FMLA, are on topic. And I think an answer to that question that said I do not see any protections from that sort of situation in the law would be fine. But I do not think that question is worth resurrecting unless the OP is asking for it

PaulDonny

9:32 PM

Got me there.

@CMW thanks for the post on my question. The main thing is I really haven't the faintest clue what I could offer as a fresh idea to them.

Chad

9:49 PM

0

Q: Can I tell my boss off on my last day and how should I handle this situation?

I work as a part time hostess. This is my first job ever (I'm 17) and at first one of my two managers was very nice to me but when I started to work there he became a complete jerk to me. I wasn't the only newbie either. He seems to have it out for me but I have no clue why and he calls me into...

professionalism business sickness

PaulDonny

I love that question

Chad

Does anyone else want to give her the advice that she can just tell the jerk off since its a first job and she can just deny having it in the future. After all a part time hostess job in high school is basically the equivelent of having no work experience

PaulDonny

yes

My first thought was 'Hey, I did that when I was 14 and I was fine. Make sure it's EPIC!'

I am actually going to answer it with that

Would it be off-topic to give tips on the insults she should use?

Chad

@PaulDonny I shot bottle rockets at my first manager... but I would not recommend that. The cops laughed at the guy back then but I think it would not go well these days

RhysW

10:05 PM

yeah everything is an arrestable offence now

CMW

10:15 PM

@PaulDonny That's easy. Take a sheet of paper and write down 10 random ideas related to them, every night

do this for two weeks. don't bother rating them, just jot down what comes to mind

no matter how ridiculous

but do it. 10 every night, no repeating. After two weeks you should have exercised your idea muscle enough to trust it to give you ten ideas you can stick with :)

user55340

11:07 PM

Thought you guys might like this too... over on the whiteboard it made people laugh and cry.

user55340

►

user55340

Remember, you're an expert - you can do anything.

PaulDonny

11:32 PM

@Chad It's too bad you can't shoot people with fireworks any longer and not have cops laugh.

Law Enforcement has definitely lost their sense of humor completely

PaulDonny

11:51 PM

@MichaelT Man, I just left work and you want to remind me of it already?

user55340

@PaulDonny Watch it. Trust me. I'm an expert.

PaulDonny

I did

Reminded me of work

CMW

haha

it's an awesome video

PaulDonny

Sometimes I am shocked that there hasn't been an RFC to erase the environment when a customer inputs an order

"Can you do it or not?"

user55340

On the whiteboard, someone (not me this time) even pinned it to make sure it stuck around long enough for others to see it.

user55340

11:54 PM

Thats it! Moderator election question! "Can you draw 7 perpendicular red lines, some with red ink, some with green ink and some with transparent ink?"

PaulDonny

lmfao

CMW

"Of couse, but you'd have to be a real expert"

PaulDonny

I can't believe my suggestion to tell off that girl's boss got downvoted

user55340

in Workplace 2014 Election, 14 secs ago, by MichaelT

Ok, question for moderator candidates: Can you draw seven perpendicular red lines, some with red ink, some with green ink and some with transparent ink? And maybe... can you make one of the lines look like a kitten?

PaulDonny

@MichaelT That should be the only questions

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