@ArthurHavlicek We're in the era of cancel culture. I would never discuss politics at work, no matter how respectfully. Not worth the risk anywhere in any context.

On a nicer note all the queues are empty and it's quiet

@Magisch I would say your position is perfectly valid. That being said, I've worked for companies where politics was part of corporate culture. Avoiding the subject could as well have a negative influence on your career (and be awkward on a daily basis)

this could be exceptional though, most companies prefering a neutral environment on most subjects.

I think we can answer this one. If it get's 4 re-open votes, I will cast the 5th.

@MisterPositive second one is on

@Magisch Thanks!

you have mine too

One more...

;)

how is everyone doing?

@MisterPositive not too bad thanks.. yourself?

Doing well! Finally over the stack drama, now just waiting to see how this chapter ends...

Heck I need to get back to my goal of getting a little rep each day.

it's tough to earn rep by answering i figured, except for that sometimes where you get a good and early answer in a popular question

not much activity, many people willing to answer overall

@ArthurHavlicek all of mine is from answers.. never actually asked a question here

I have a asked a couple early on.

@MisterPositive I know the general tumult and whatnot continues over on main meta.. I think I reached the point earlier in the week where it was getting exhausting trying to follow everything. I'll probably check in on it once in a while and see if anything worthwhile has happened

@motosubatsu I have to keep on top of it a bit more than that, but generally speaking I am in the same boat. Thankfully its not something that I run into at TWP.

This too with a bit of time shall pass

@motosubatsu Most of mine comes from 2 answers i think, one of which was a bit snarky... Very different from what you'd have in SO

@ArthurHavlicek yeah a bit of judicious snark sometimes captures the imagination of the TWP readership

@MisterPositive I'm waiting how it shakes out and then i'll either leave and not look back or not.

@Magisch You are not alone in that stance.

Many of the moderators who are on strike currently are pretty much where you are.

I never had an issue with the actual CoC update, but the trends and missteps surrounding it are appalling and need serious correction

also I can't see myself working to benefit a company whose senior leadership has active contempt for the userbase

@JaneS Hello, how are you doing?

@Magisch any idea what to do if not moderate for SE ? I'm finding myself lacking constructive hobbies

@ArthurHavlicek idk, find a open source project, maybe find another q/a site

not sure yet, cross that bridge when I get to it

@ArthurHavlicek click a TVTropes link (it doesn't really matter which) - the ensuing rabbit hole should keep you occupied for a few months at least - it's not the most constructive use of time though

@motosubatsu It can be entertaining as hell though!

I'm browsing it as of right now

" when things are sufficiently sexy, viewers will accept them, even when they are outright impossible, or just astronomically improbable." Yes, definitely

@ArthurHavlicek ahh the "Rule of Sexy"

@MisterPositive That sucks more then any of us realize

@Twyxz Personal opinion: Once you're within 5 minutes of the building, assume that somebody from the company can already see you and act/dress accordingly.

@Twyxz You can always send a question to whoever arranged the interview date/time asking them to confirm the dress code for the office.

And then dress slightly above that level.

@RonnieW really depends on what the cost of living for your area is.

I have a friend who's an experienced PM who earns ~$70k in Connecticut, was offered more than double their salary to work for Google in CA, but after cost of living they'd actually be earning less in CA than staying where they are.

@Kaz similar thing here. I could work in frankfurt and make double, but pay quadruple rent and double groceries

@Magisch Aye, same. I live/work near but not in London, and it makes all the difference. I worked out that to maintain my standard of living, a job in London would have to pay me 40% more just to break even.

Does make answering recruiters on LinkedIn much easier though.

Hi [Recruiter],

I’m always happy to discuss new opportunities.

Just to set expectations, my absolute minimum to consider relocating to London is £75k total comp.

If that’s compatible with your position, then please feel free to send me a spec and we can discuss further.

Best regards,

Kaz

so you too recieve these letters of people hoping your well and having "great opportutities to discuss" that don't come with a clear cut salary offer

@ArthurHavlicek I've seen precisely one job spec in the past year that provided a salary range.

@Kaz Frankly, there are few subjects that drive me crazy mad about professionalism, but this is one of them. Lack of salary transparency in the job market.

The only thing I feel when I read an offer without a reasonably close salary range is "we want to screw you in negotiations"

or "we don't think you should be motivated by money"

Yep, salary ranges are so rare these days that I automatically feel goodwill towards any company that has them.

@Magisch I'm old enough to see similar CoC's or TOS bring down entire sites. I'm only surprised it drew first blood so quickly. Age gives you perspective, and I saw this coming years ago

@Kaz Cost of Living is real. I used to cover that in a job hunting class I taught. Salary should be around #5 on what you should use to determine if you take the job.

@RichardU FWIW, I tend to recommend to people that they combine Salary + Cost of Living + Commute Time/Conditions/Cost + Working Hours/Conditions + Benefits into a single metric called "Lifestyle".

There are a lot of important tradeoffs in there that are far too easily overlooked if people only compare jobs based on what they can quantify.

It's one of the big reasons I love my current job. I live and work in a lovely city, small enough that I don't own a car and just use a bike to get around. My commute is 20 minutes. I work strictly 9-5.

So yeah, by the time you account for Cost of Living/commuting, you'd need a 40% raise just to break even, and that's before you factor in the worse commute/conditions.

And honestly, if my company weren't here I'd move further afield still. Both my brothers live in Cardiff and I pay more in rent here than both of them put together.

Might even get a remote job for a tech company and just move to a sunny, inexpensive part of the world.

Hi GUYS lol

*sigh*

@ChrisE What? Who? It's you!

ikr?

Long time no see. How are things with you?

Couldn't be better. AT&T contract finally ended and I have a FT perm job at a regional convenience store.

Excellent, glad to hear it. Nothing's happening over here. Nothing at all. It's been boring.

I'm duty-bound to take that advice literally. :D

:O

sensitive matters here

@ChrisE I'm going to go ahead and apologize. I didn't mean to delete your message.

My brain was in one place and my mouse finger in another.

I'm kind of a dick sometimes.

How about we not do that eh?

People have pronouns and it is real and core to them.

Something @Rubiksmoose said the other day in a different room might be worth reading... just a note.

I had assumed you were acting in good faith, but now that I see that you were not, I am going to retract the apology I offered you.

@ChrisE As much as I don't like this pronoun policy I'd flag you for doing that tbh

Yeah, things are pretty sensitive right now. Pretty much everyone is making up their own pronouns. Unfortunately, there's some fallout.

@Rubiksmoose For my own culture, don't interpret this as doubt but, do we have source on that ?

@ArthurHavlicek My pronoun is certainly core to me, though I never really have to think about it since I'm a cis male and everyone already adresses me correctly without thinking about it. I can certainly say that I've heard many people express that it is very important to them as well.

OK, well, I was more hoping there was an interesting study about the phenomenom, but maybe I can find that myself

@ArthurHavlicek Oh I see. Well, unfortunately I don't have one at hand, no. Only anecdotes.

If you find anything interesting though I'd love to hear about it!

I found a research suggesting non binary people would have an easier time going by singular "they". I advocated toward this as well. Now I suppose I have a sourced argument researchgate.net/publication/…

@ArthurHavlicek Of course, "easier" does not always translate to "better" in the sense of policy setting.

(obviously I haven't read it yet, but I will. Thanks!)

Well, that's one way to shut me up.

:/

@ChrisE Glad to hear your doing well!

thanks

we are living in interesting times

Most of this, as usual, is @Snow 's fault. ;-}

naturally

Plan on hanging around a bit? @ChrisE

Dunno yet. We'll see

@Kaz yeah, it's Salary + Benefits + location + duties + fit + stress + Cost of living + hours + family considerations.... and I probably missed a few.

you have some "light reading" to catch up on. :-}

I'll probably be sporadic, at least for a bit. Moving in november.

Staying in the state?

I'm reasonably happy where I work right now. I'm respected, make a decent salary for the area, have control over my own workload, strictly 35 hour weeks, no overtime and 30 days paid vacation per year. And CoL is really low here and I live 10 mins by bicycle from work.

@ChrisE I hope you are well.

@Magisch That is a nice gig.....

Staying in the city (well, Atlanta...technically a different city but still metro. More in-town actually)

@MisterPositive right ;)

@RichardU I'm outstanding. New job, great relationship

we are up by Lake Lanier

we are talking about moving into more of a live work and play situation...

I currently live on the edge of Dunwoody & Chamblee and where I'm moving is kind of the edge of Brookhaven & Tucker. Staying in Dekalb basically.

@MisterPositive couple or family?

@ChrisE Glad to hear you are well.

Family. I daughter in College, son who is a JR in High School.

@Rubiksmoose I think people would have an easier time with the CoC if names weren't being dragged through the mud.

There are places in Smyrna and Brookhaven that have a good live work and play setup. Of course, it's $. Atlantic Station especially, but that's Midtown.

Yeah...we are probably a 1.5 half off....

@MisterPositive ??

@RichardU There are certainly a lot of ways this could have gone easier/better, for sure.

@ChrisE cannot ask my son to change high schools.....

once in his sr year we have options....

Gotcha. Same with my gf's daughter. She's a freshmen so when we were looking for a place together it was in a pretty small area. We got lucky and we're still paying (imho) too much.

@ChrisE its expensive here....

Tell me about it. We feel fortunate to pay $2200 for a 3br house. How nuts is that?

@ChrisE Crazy. That is about what we pay for the Lanier area.

I work in Smyrna (at the obvious regional convenience store). We should have lunch sometime

If I was intended to see that before it was deleted, I didn't.

are you "near" Ga 400?

I don't care if people know, I just don't want to leave it here for posterity. lol

LOL

That is a good place to work too!

Yeah, I like it here a lot. I just don't want to piss off someone here and make it easy. Not that it would be hard to find.

(by here I mean SE)

As you've undoubtedly noticed today, my snark isn't to everyone's tastes. :)

@ChrisE LOL -- this will pass with time I'm sure.

Well THIS will. Me being a smartass and getting myself in trouble? Yeah, probably not.

@ChrisE LOL

Gotta roll, hope to see you around more @ChrisE

seeya

@Rubiksmoose that's more than a bit of an understatement. Someone's full name was published in a news article, and SE has yet to apologize.

@Rubiksmoose meta.stackexchange.com/a/335256/530922 this person explained my pov quite exactly

@ArthurHavlicek It is certainly a reasonable point of view. Personally, I don't care what some random person on the internet calls me, nor do I understand the emotional investment in impersonal pronouns. This sentiment is far more prevalent in the LBGT community than many are willing to admit, but it's the squeaky wheels that get the grease

It's often like this. As being LGBT you have 3 kind of reactions. Hate, indifference, clumsy and excessive support

I'm way more comfortable with 2nd

SE currently did 3

@ArthurHavlicek exactly, and it ends up causing more troubles than 1, or generates A LOT of 1

@ArthurHavlicek there are a number of terms within the community that would earn me an instant perma-ban if I dared utter them here.

@Magisch Your gig sounds a lot like my gig ^^

Oh hey, while I remember, bit of a long shot, but do any of you lovely people exist in the vicinity of Essen (Germany)? I'm flying over next week and would happily buy you a drink or 3