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Kilisi
Kilisi
3:49 AM
I bought Red Dead Redemption 2 for my kids lat month, incredible graphics, can't wait for my kids to finish it so I can have a go.... I'd kick them off the PS4 but there's 5 of them and I'm pretty old, pretty undignified if I get slapped around
*last
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
4:08 AM
@Kilisi That is funny....my son and I fight over the xbox on occassion
 
 
1 hour later…
Jane S
Jane S
5:21 AM
I know I don't get in here very often, but thanks all for putting up with me over the past four years. I have always tried to be fair, and for the most part invisible when moderating. I'm not sure how much I will be contributing to the community over the next little while, that will depend on a number of things. But I hope that SE and the communities can find a path forward.
 
Snow
Snow
It's been great working with you, Jane. And I've been proud to support this community.
 
Jane S
Jane S
Likewise :) Anyway, I'll keep an eye on things as much as I can without having the access I did as a mod, and we'll see what happens. In the meantime, I plan to go play a game and shoot some electronic bad guys :)
 
Snow
Snow
6:06 AM
@Kilisi You might have to wait a while - I spend months on that before I completed everything. I know it probably cost you a lot to buy it (I recall your frustrations with the internet and postage charges from before). RDR2 is excellent value for money because you can't complete it within 10 hours of gameplay.
 
 
1 hour later…
Kilisi
Kilisi
7:19 AM
@Snow yeah, wallet took a hit, but I'm old, only spend my $$ on the wif and kids these days... they've been playing rdr2... I've been building them a fort to shoot the neighbours from and and a swing... so still got a bit of building to go before I kick them off the PS4.... I want to start the game from the beginning but it only allows one player.
 
Snow
Snow
You're one hell of an awesome dad for those kids!
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
They're the future, got to try and give them what I can I reckon
 
Snow
Snow
As long as it's not a broken arm, I guess. :D
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
7:43 AM
@MisterPositive yeah, one on one I'd stand a chance against any but the baby.... hehe... but 5 vrs one they'd just tell their mum and I'd be effed
they fight dirty
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
8:28 AM
@JaneS I honestly wouldn't characterize it as "putting up with you" - as far as I'm concerned you've been an exemplary mod
 
Snow
Snow
8:39 AM
Well, I have about three hours left.
I'm guessing there's going to be some interim moderators assigned after Jane and I leave, I really have no idea who they will be or how they will work. Just do the best you can to do what you're doing. I have no idea when a new election will be scheduled, but I guess after a week or two.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Snow far as I know SE doesn't do elections near christmas or years end
I obviously don't know for sure but it might be february before new elections
 
Snow
Snow
There's plenty of time for a new election before the end of the year.
 
Magisch
Magisch
Here's hoping. The ones this year happened like 3-4 months from scheduling
on beta sites at least
@Snow It's been an honor to have you and @JaneS as moderators here. From my personal experience you've been nothing but professional and skilled in taking the tasks here on
especially handling the annoying volume and brevity of off topic comments
I hope you'll return at some point in the future when SE cleans up their mess
 
 
3 hours later…
Jane S
Jane S
11:29 AM
@motosubatsu Thank you! I just tried to get on with it and do the job you elected me to do :)
@Magisch Thank you for your kind words, it is nice to hear that we did ok :)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@JaneS Hi Jane, sorry to see you go, but certainly understood
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
11:44 AM
 
Jane S
Jane S
@RichardU Thank you, it was not a decision I made lightly, but I feel it's the right one at this time.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@MisterPositive It has been an honor to have you as a moderator on this site as well. I hope the situation can resolve itself such that all of you can return and if not, best wishes anyways
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
4
Q: Resigning as Moderator from TWP

Mister PositiveAs most of you know, Monica was removed as a moderator over the weekend by the SE staff. It wasn’t her decision, and there simply wasn't any justification for it. I scoured all the data I could over the 24 hours, listened to the chatter in the private moderator chat room, and simply could not ...

discussion
@Magisch Much appreciated. I hold out hope for the long term.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@MisterPositive They wouldn't, but if they make you run again to regain your mod hat I'll vote for you without hesitation
 
avazula
avazula
@MisterPositive oh ... I'm really sorry to see you go (and every one else). Thank you for everything you've done!
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
11:52 AM
LOL someone downvoted my resignation post....is that a false positive?
 
Magisch
Magisch
@MisterPositive It's hard. I want to upvote the post because I respect your reasons for it but I don't want to upvote the announcement of a great loss for the site. I upvote those anyways in the end but someone might come down on the other end of that consideration
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
Its perfectly fine at this point. It can be down voted to oblivion at this point.
signing off for now. I may pop back in from time to time, but for now, for me, this isn't fun anymore.
 
avazula
avazula
@MisterPositive take care of yourself. Hoping to see you soon if that suits you.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@avazula thanks. still super happy your were elected. I hope it continues to be a rewarding experience for you.
 
Pointy Haired Boss
Pointy Haired Boss
16
Q: Resigning as Moderator from TWP

Mister PositiveAs most of you know, Monica was removed as a moderator over the weekend by the SE staff. It wasn’t her decision, and there simply wasn't any justification for it. I scoured all the data I could over the last 24 hours, listened to the chatter in the private moderator room, and simply could not ...

discussion
 
Richard U
Richard U
11:59 AM
@MisterPositive I respect your decision
 
avazula
avazula
@MisterPositive same for me, you're a great mod. We'll see how it goes but for now I'm blessed to have these amazing mod colleagues and frequent users.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@RichardU Thank you sir.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@avazula I too think it's great you got elected
(totally not biased btw)
 
avazula
avazula
@Magisch :) I think you'd be a great mod FWIW
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@MisterPositive I posted on your resignation thread but in case you haven't seen it.. thanks mate.
 
Jane S
Jane S
12:02 PM
@MisterPositive I got one too, it doesn't matter.
 
Richard U
Richard U
Sadly SE seems to want to eat their cake and still have it. You cannot simultaneously have a community participation site, and have tight control over it.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@JaneS Not even a little.....
 
Mihir
Mihir
12:22 PM
Hi, wanted to ask for some advice but don't think that normal questioning on stackexchange site would allow it as it is specific to a particular career, so deleted the question? Can someone answer it here if possible?
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Mihir not sure I can help personally - although I've done some low level C/C++ my career hasn't really gone in that direction of late
I do think that there's still a viable career path there though, but it's not the easiest thing to break into - there aren't perhaps the volume of openings you'd see in higher level languages and there's often the chicken vs egg problem of needing experience to get a role
as for where to look at applying - the answer is basically there in your own question. If you're interested in writing code for OS or network stacks then the obvious place to look for roles, internships etc would be the OS or networking vendors. Be it a Linux distro, Microsoft, CISCO etc.
and doing what you have (i.e. contributing to projects such as FreeBSD) is valuable experience too.
 
Mihir
Mihir
I understand this experience problem, and its geniune too. Can't I cover this experience gap through means of some internships(if possible to get)? Also how big barrier is a country in getting a job? I mean like when I surf the net, I hardly find (or to be precise nothing) any openings in my country.
Also thanks for the details! Was dying to discuss this
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
12:39 PM
@Mihir internships are a great way to start covering the experience gap. Country could be a bigger problem - since there's probably a smaller number of companies globally offering the sort of work you're looking for then that reduces the chances of one being located where you are.
It's not impossible certainly - but it definitely can add a significant barrier to overcome. If you really want to follow this sort of work and there isn't anyone in your country offering it then you'll either have to hope for a remote role or move
where are you located if I may ask?
 
Mihir
Mihir
Yes, although finding internships would have the same problem but may reduce the problems due to experience. I am surely not gonna leave working on all this in any case but hearing this all day makes me mad, and even except that its true that its necessary to have some work in hand. I am ready to move/remote work/freelance or anything.
I am located in delhi/inida
India*
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Mihir the best way I have found to transition is do do freelance work on the side, or to do volunteer work. You get experience that way. The laws in India may be different though, so check before you do either
 
Mihir
Mihir
I have been surfing through sites like upwork/toptal/fiverr/truelancer although never really tried to start. I will start it asap considering it helps. Although how would law effect this? Like all it should effect is taxes etc?
 
Richard U
Richard U
12:58 PM
@Mihir taxes, yes, and also if there are laws limiting what you can do outside of work
@JoeStrazzere Hi Joe!
 
Pointy Haired Boss
Pointy Haired Boss
1
Q: No more active ♦ moderators. How should we keep the site in order?

iBugIn the past few days, y'all have witnessed the terrible action Stack Exchange's done: They dismissed Monica, one of the most beloved and respected moderator and community members. Following that, all three remaining The Workplace moderators have since declared their resignation. (Snow, Jane S, Mi...

discussion moderation
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@RichardU Hello!
 
Richard U
Richard U
1:11 PM
@JoeStrazzere Things have gotten a bit sticky as of late, I see.
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@RichardU Apparently.
 
Sourav Ghosh
Sourav Ghosh
1:27 PM
cv-pls websites it's job-searching. Where to search email math tutoring jobs?‭ - studying‭ 2019-10-01 13:04:27Z
 
Magisch
Magisch
@SouravGhosh already vtc that in the fp queue, sorry
 
Pointy Haired Boss
Pointy Haired Boss
2:01 PM
0
Q: Why was my comment deleted, but not the replies to it?

EvorlorI posted a highly upvoted comment which was not asking for clarification on the question, so I understand why it was deleted. But why weren't the replies to my comment deleted also? This is not the first time I have seen this happen. It is confusing when there are replies to a comment that doesn...

discussion comments deleted
 
Snow
Snow
Ok, that's pretty much all of the mods demodded now. @JaneS - You're the only one left. If you didn't submit your email, that's fine, it's good to have the coverage.
 
Magisch
Magisch
Yikes
 
Kaz
Kaz
2:18 PM
@RichardU Nice to see you back. I was worried I'd never run into you again ^^
@enderland You too!
 
Richard U
Richard U
@news of the current crisis reached me. I am here to help, if I can
 
Snow
Snow
A bit like Homelander. :D
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Snow My advanced age and failing health precludes me from engaging in that character's cupidity.
In all seriousness, I think that SE should try to mend fences, and that is not something the user-base can do for them.
 
Kaz
Kaz
@RichardU Based on most of the public posts I've seen so far, relatively few disagree with what SE are trying to accomplish, but instead with their attitude and actions and how they seem to be going about all of this.
@RichardU While you're here, any chance I can get some non-SE contact info? You're on my list of people I'd like to stay in touch with.
You too @enderland
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
My diamond is now gone, and so am I for awhile. I will check in after a bit of time has past.
2
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
2:33 PM
@MisterPositive laters
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz email is Richard_U@mail.com
@MisterPositive if you want to get in touch. Richard_U@mail.com
@Kaz There's a saying "Whatever you did is what you intended". The means are what matters. Just ends can never be achieved by unjust means. If they were willing to toss Monica on the basis of "futurecrime", then that bodes ill for all of us.

The beginning of the end was the new COC of about a year ago, which replaced some very clear, very easy to follow rules to the clandestine ones now in place. I warned that something like this would happen.
@enderland ah, word got back to you too, eh?
 
enderland
enderland
Indeed it did
 
Kaz
Kaz
@RichardU Pretty much my position too. But I do always try to hold out hope that it was just well-intentioned misunderstanding that can be walked back.
I feel like there's an Avengers Autists Assemble meme to be made here ^^
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz Hopefully. But the ball is in their court now. I hope they take this seriously
@Kaz Only if I get to be the "Token evil teammate"
 
Kaz
Kaz
@enderland If you want to get in touch, I've made kaz_31415@outlook.com for the purpose.
 
Richard U
Richard U
2:42 PM
@enderland how's the family? Good, I hope.
 
enderland
enderland
pretty good, kiddo started sleeping mostly through the night which is... well, awesome
 
Snow
Snow
That's great, glad to hear it.
And hello @JoeStrazzere I hope you are well as well.
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@Snow Hi. I'm okay. Dealing with a dad who won't be around much longer. Fortunately, Hospice is very helpful.
 
enderland
enderland
sorry to hear that @JoeStrazzere
 
Richard U
Richard U
@enderland that is good. Remember the first rule of parenting: Your kid has their own rulebook.
 
Snow
Snow
2:47 PM
Man, sorry to hear that. Hope that you help him to be as comfortable as he possibly can be.
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@enderland Thanks. We knew it was coming, so no surprise.
 
enderland
enderland
@RichardU I'm pretty sure we won the kid lottery as far as easy parenting goes, so far at least
 
Richard U
Richard U
@JoeStrazzere sorry about that. I went through that with both my parents and my brother. Good luck.
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@Snow Thanks. He's lived a good life and is ready to go. Hopefully, he can go comfortably and at home.
 
Snow
Snow
Nice how a few resignations bring a few of the old guys back. Shoulda done this a long time ago!
2
 
Richard U
Richard U
2:48 PM
@enderland Just remember, that the second one learns from the first. Our little trickster learned from her big sister, BIG TIME. Threw us for a lop.
 
Joe Strazzere
Joe Strazzere
@RichardU Thanks. Went through it a bit less than 2 years ago with my mom. This time is harder.
 
enderland
enderland
@Snow to be fair, was more Monica getting thrown under the bus ;-)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@JoeStrazzere I know. It's tough to lose that connection to your past.
 
Snow
Snow
@enderland Well, yeah. And a lot of the moderators at the same time.
 
enderland
enderland
Yeah....
 
Richard U
Richard U
2:50 PM
I don't like seeing people treated unfairly, and that was beyond the pale
3
 
Magisch
Magisch
3:27 PM
I wonder what they thought would happen
 
Richard U
Richard U
3:49 PM
@Magisch they thought that they could act with impunity. I've seen it happen elsewhere online and IRL as well. People, when they run an organization that requires volunteers often start treating them as they would employees.
 
 
2 hours later…
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
5:41 PM
Huh, crowded chat today :)
0
Q: How to maintain composure when someone happens to be in situation of Monica?

Coder KaranThis can happen in any workplace especially in those workplaces where democracy and community-centric mindset suddenly gets invaded by autocratic and top-down mindset. This can happen to anyone and I know I don't have enough composure myself to remain calm and so cool as Monica did. What are the...

psychology
Interesting...
 
Snow
Snow
5:59 PM
Interesting question indeed. I’m not sure how to make it more relevant to this site though, but it’s good as a concept
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
Neither do i
 
Richard U
Richard U
I can edit it. It's actually very similar to what I went through at that company that did me dirty
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
I think it's stable now :)
Oh... wait... I forgot we were on restricted mode .... *rolling back *...
(jk)
 
Richard U
Richard U
I tweaked it a bit more, and changed it from democracy and community run to "collaboratie"
errr, that's collaborative
 
Richard U
Richard U
6:26 PM
@DarkCygnus I think one reason this situation got me so irritated is that it was much like what I faced on the job one time.
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
6:40 PM
@RichardU I still can't believe all of this to be honest
 
Richard U
Richard U
@DarkCygnus well, I'm sure it's inspired by recent events, but that doesn't make it less honest a question
I'm still going by the old "Assume good intentions" rule.
@DarkCygnus I think one thing we can all do at this point is not feed into the hostility
Give serious answers to all questions, even troll ones. If it's not a troll, then you've helped someone. If it is a troll, then you haven't fed into it.
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
Yes, that is why I tried to help a bit regardless I am disappointed by SE
 
Richard U
Richard U
@DarkCygnus Remember, the point of a troll is to get a reaction, if the troll doesn't end up throwing the site into chaos, then the troll was unsucessful
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
How to troll a troll
 
Richard U
Richard U
@DarkCygnus I used to troll back in the 1990s, and became quite good at it. Principally, I was going after online bullies, and neo-nazi groups. I would draw fire away from their intended victims, then mess with them. I also know how to spot trolls, and take away all of their fun.
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
7:22 PM
@RichardU I can actually picture you as a large green chap hanging around a bridge charging toll on travellers.... don't know why, it's the name
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi LOL
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
7:50 PM
@Kilisi something like this maybe?
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
@DarkCygnus Ahaha, na.... more the conventional stereotypical huge green chap with the beer belly and a club as big as himself
 
Richard U
Richard U
8:17 PM
I always imagined myself more like this.....
 
Kaz
Kaz
Oh hey, @RichardU @enderland, on a happier note:
Sep 12 at 19:16, by Kaz
I quit my job on Monday, and gave my MD 48 hours to persuade me not to. He doubled my salary. Consider me persuaded ^^
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz KAZ FOR THE WIN!
 
Kaz
Kaz
Now just wait 'til we get to the equity conversation in 6 months time :)
@RichardU We've come a long way from this:
231
Q: I'm about to automate myself out of a job. How do I approach my boss to discuss this?

KazI work for a small-ish company (~15 employees). I've managed to automate myself out of 80% of my job, starting in 3-4 months. I would really like to stay with my company, but my best analysis suggests that there simply won't be (enough of) a need for me. If our growth rate continues, that 20% wi...

job-change
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz yep, the big secret about automation is that it doesn't eliminate work, it actually creates more, just at a higher volume and level
 
enderland
enderland
9:10 PM
double salary? :o
 
Kaz
Kaz
@enderland I was underpaid.
For understandable, historic reasons.
But I'm no longer the person I was when I started out, or in the same position.
 
enderland
enderland
Salaries in tech are quite awesome at this point. it's a gravy train if you figure out which one is the gravy vs the leftovers
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
Anyways, x2 salary is something great :)
 
Kaz
Kaz
The last 3 years especially since that post, my role and responsibilities and integration into the strategic direction of the company have increased massively, and my pay hasn't kept pace.
 
DarkCygnus
DarkCygnus
congratz
 
Kaz
Kaz
9:17 PM
So I needed to re-base my compensation, and I saw the confluence of various factors and events, acted at what I felt was my point of maximum leverage, and it worked out rather well ^^
Good thing too because I didn't actually have another job lined up to go to yet :)
 
enderland
enderland
Hopefully you were mainly leaving for being underpaid then?
 
Kaz
Kaz
@enderland I love literally everything else about my job and what it's doing for my career.
 
enderland
enderland
Ah, great!
 
Kaz
Kaz
That's why it took 3 years of complaining, vocally, about my pay before I was willing to take the risk that I might have to actually quit.
But yes, at a certain point the gap becomes so egregious that it needs to be resolved, one way or the other.
 
enderland
enderland
I really dislike the information dissymmetry around that type of thing too
 
Kaz
Kaz
9:23 PM
@enderland Well, like I said, there were understandable reasons. I spent the first 2 years with the company being a dysfunctional mental wreck.
Every day wake up and flip a coin to see if I'm even going to make it out of bed.
 
enderland
enderland
oof. hopefully you are doing better, that type of depression (I assume it was depression?) is awful
 
Kaz
Kaz
But for the time when I was in work, I was brilliant. And they were tiny and able to be flexible.
 
Jane S
Jane S
@Snow It is a case of an out of date email address for me, sorting it out now.
 
Kaz
Kaz
And then I got better, and starting 3 years ago it was at the point where, if I didn't tell you about it, you wouldn't know. And now it's basically not an issue at all.
But obviously coming out of a situation like that, it's understandable that they would be, let's say, cautious, about things would turn out.
And then I have no degree and no qualifications, so it's really hard to comp me to any kind of industry standards.
And my job is so diverse and ever-changing, that even agreeing a title for it is difficult, let alone asking a recruiter to benchmark it.
 
enderland
enderland
I love hearing the way you are describing things now
@JaneS :wave:
 
Jane S
Jane S
9:28 PM
@enderland Hey there, Enderland! :)
 
Kaz
Kaz
So yeah, given my new value to the company (replacing me right now, while not impossible, would throw a massive wrench in our strategic roadmap for the next 2 years), I was pretty confident that if I forced the issue, we could break with where I used to be, and re-base my compensation based on where I am today.
Honestly, pretty amazing 3 years :)
And I'm still only 25. Just getting started. My boss retired at 39 and I have every intention of beating him.
 
enderland
enderland
ah, a fellow FIRE person?
 
Kaz
Kaz
@enderland Of a sort. 20 years in the city, very senior individual in the Pearl Group private equity buyout (and later re-floating). I reckon he walked away from that with £10M, and board seats at about 6 different companies.
 
enderland
enderland
oh, well, that's one way to do it hahaha
10M makes it easy
 
Kaz
Kaz
Got involved with my company as a sort of retirement project within a year or so. That was 7 years ago now.
Which is the other reason I really didn't want to risk having to walk away. I sit next to him all day, literally his right-hand man. That's exposure and experience you can't buy at any price.
 
Rhys
Rhys
9:38 PM
just read the news, congrats Kaz
 
Kaz
Kaz
@Rhys Cheers.
 
Rhys
Rhys
seems i popped in at a turbulent time, thats a lot of mod resignations
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kazm oh good lord, I'm more than 2x your age
 
Kaz
Kaz
@RichardU Well hey, somebody's gotta keep the torch going for the next generation ^^
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz Ah, gather around the fire, and I shall tell you of the times of old, times of paper punch-cards, cassette-tape drives and floppy disks
 
Kaz
Kaz
9:50 PM
@RichardU Now you definitely sound like my dad ^^
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz Well, at least I don't sound like your granddad
 
Kaz
Kaz
@RichardU Not quite. He was a codebreaker at Bletchley Park, just a little before even your time.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kaz That's great. BTW, if you really want to sharpen your skills, try to do as much as you can without going online for help, There was no online help when I learned programming, and I think it made us sharper
 

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