The Water Cooler

@gnat The issue as I see it is that the SE team, for whatever reason, does not see heavy traffic to smaller sites as a long-term issue. They think that it's a small blip on the radar that can be handled with the tools available. To get it fixed, the first thing is to make sure they see that it is a strain on the community moderation efforts

19

Q: How do you handle an interview for a candidate who is performing poorly?

When you begin interviewing a candidate and realise early on that they really, really aren't suitable for the job (for example, for a developer role, perhaps you've discussed coding and discovered they can't explain a simple for loop), how do you wrap up the interview? Is it reasonable to contin...

CMW

can someone protect it?

gnat

@CMW not me. As of now, alternative way for guys like me to protect it is probably to lemming-upvote SO hot questions to redirect part of the mass destruction attention there...

21

Q: Force the compiler to ignore some lines in the program

Suppose that I have 10,000 lines of C++ code. 200 lines of this code are for testing purpose (for example, check the program and show an error message). Is there an way in C++ to ignore or consider some lines of the code (maybe with preprocessor keywords)?

c++ preprocessor-directive

10

Q: What happens if you write a variable name alone in python?

Recently I became curious about but what happens in line 2 of the following bogus python code: def my_fun(foo,bar): foo return foo + bar The reason I became interested is that I'm trying Light Table and tried to put a watch on "foo." It appeared to cause the python interpreter to hang....

python lighttable

good questions, lots of good answers there :)

CMW

I see. I'll do that thing then, too :)

Rachel

@CMW I'm sorry, but I feel like I must downvote your answer here :)

I left a comment to explain to other viewers why I think it is a bad answer, even though I know I already told you why yesterday

CMW

8:55 PM

Don't worry, it's CW anyway :)

But like I mentioned before, what's in your comment is actually the point of my post.

Rachel

haha oh yeah I forgot

CMW

Your company may full well tell you not to use forums at all

Rachel

Maybe I'm just not understanding it, but every time I see that answer it makes me think that you are saying "Your company should be doing this anyways, so you're OK to be doing it while on the clock"

CMW

but telling you to consume the help of others but not to give back some help, that, in my opinion is unethical

Rachel

that may be true from one perspective, however its not your call as an employee to make that decision on behalf of your company

CMW

8:58 PM

That's right

Rachel

You're hired to get a job done. If you get the job done by using assistance online, that's great. But if the company wants you to not spend time returning the favor and answering questions online, then that's what you should do :)

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your answer, but it bothered me so much that I felt I had to leave a comment with a dissenting opinion :)

even though i said the same thing yesterday to you lol

CMW

:)

enderland

@CMW I protected it

3

CMW

@enderland Cool, thanks

enderland

i hate doing that, but... there's already a few answers on their way to deletion

enderland

9:13 PM

I don't feel as bad since the other WP question on the hot questions list has about 7 deleted answers :\

jmac

11:11 PM

This hot list is really killing us this past week...

See this comment back-and-forth on Meta.SO:

There are in fact some sites whose entire topic strongly inclines towards subjective questions. The Workplace is a good example, and they have an ongoing struggle with answer quality because of it. (And whenever I pop over there, it drives me nuts.) — Josh Caswell 16 hours ago

@Josh, we also have some tremendous answers from very knowledgeable people. Over 70k people have viewed and been helped by our most popular question which, while subjective, has a very clear and well-referenced answer that solves the problem people are finding the question trying to solve. Read: don't sell us short because some answers are poor -- help us downvote! — jmac 13 hours ago

Sorry, @jmac, I shouldn't have included the parenthetical remark. The Workplace was just the nearest example to mind because I had been reading those "Hot" questions you linked. I understand that Skeptics had problems along similar lines when it started, but is now doing very well. I hope that the Workplace manages the same. — Josh Caswell 3 hours ago

Three TWP questions currently on the hot list, 3 that were on the hot list that have been closed, this really is not good exposure for us given the question (and answer!) quality.

I mean look at this answer. How is this even addressing the question? Yet it has 31 upvotes!

31

A: How do I keep the passion and energy up after 17 years of writing software?

Unfortunately it is a job. You do anything for 20 years, and at some point you're going to face some boredom and routine that you'd rather not. I'm sure you'd find a lot of 'Rock and Roll' musicians complaining about tedious road tours, too. My best advice to you is, at least with regard to yo...

CMW

huh. How/Why is a post locked?

jmac

@CMW, when a post is migrated, it gets auto-locked if closed.

CMW

ah, ok

jmac

The cardinal rule of migrating posts is "Don't Migrate Crap", so all edits that need to be done to the post are expected to be done prior to migration to make the question suitable, or to make sure that the receiving site has someone who is willing to make the edit immediately (but preferably before)

CMW

The answer you mentioned feels like a 'suck it up and do your job' answer

jmac

11:25 PM

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that migrated posts that get closed have the migration rejected and are sent back to the void from whence they came. Banished back to the corner of SE that spawned them.

Which is why they get locked (they no longer exist on our site)

CMW

do they actually disappear?

jmac

@CMW 'Suck it up and do your job' is a fine answer if you explain why that is the only option (much like 'just quit' answers).

CMW

similar to deleted ones?

jmac

You can check migration stats in the mod tools. Give me a sec.

Can you access this page? workplace.stackexchange.com/tools

CMW

I can. That 'rejected' list there is empty, though

jmac

11:28 PM

Yeah, but if you go to that most recent question on programmers (you click through the link in the migration message) you get to this page: programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/224827/revisions

as it says there, "Migration rejected. 18 hours ago"

CMW

well that's weird

it's locked on TWP but onlocked on programmers

but visible here, and 404 there

enderland

I need to get 10k rep on programmers.SE

jmac

I don't really know what happens in between, that may be a good meta question for the mods who may have to get personally involved.

CMW

@jmac I agree. But even without an explanation, that answer is so bold, it's easy for people to agree with. I think that what brings the upvotes

jmac

The Hot Network Questions list is what brings the upvotes. Plus, yeah, it's nice for people who hate their job to be able to upvote an answer that says this is to be expected. Novocaine for the soul and all that.

CMW

11:31 PM

right

jmac

@enderland Why?

enderland

idk :D

jmac

You want to be able to see deleted trainwreck questions. Admit it.

enderland

how did you know

jmac

What else does 10k give you? Limited delete privileges? Where's the fun in that?

CMW

11:32 PM

do they have a lot of those?

jmac

@NickL, welcome!

enderland

I like deleting stuff

I'm the deletion monster

CMW

haha

jmac

@CMW, well, probably. I don't have 10k there but I can't be certain. But I am relatively certain that there are a bunch hidden because of the history of Programmers.

enderland

they've got a lot of crap too

CMW

11:33 PM

I kind of like the Code Review SE, but it feels like hardly anyone even votes there

at least when it comes to rails

jmac

"Once upon a time, in a Stack Overflow far far away..." there were lots of off-topic questions asking not about programming stuff, but more social stuff about programmers in general. So people go together and said, "Let there be a place where we can use SO as a forum!" and Programmers was created.

(at least such is my understanding)

CMW

@jmac Oh, yes, I've heard of that history

enderland

yeah people on P.SE can sympathize with us

CMW

got into some discussion that lead to a lecture a while back :)

jmac

After much conflict and gnashing of teeth, both the Programmers community, and the SE overlords decided, "Hey, there's a reason we don't like this sort of question on SO" and Programmers was rebooted to stop being a dumping grounds for things SO didn't want, rather to become a place for "Whiteboard" problems for programmers.

And then TWP was created, and Programmers decided we were the appropriate place for all of these questions asking, "What language is best for my career?" or "How do I deal with the fact that I'm awesome and everyone around me sucks?"

enderland

11:35 PM

or "do you fart in your cube?" or something like that on P.SE

jmac

and then, like mature adults, we discussed it with Programmers, and we have come to an agreement that reads something like: "Thou shalt not migrate crap" and it was good.

CMW

@enderland that's just awesome. Like that question about ducks (geese?) in the workplace

enderland

they normally ping me before migrating

@CMW the geese question is actually relevant and on topic though >.>

CMW

still awesome :)

jmac

Here is an amazon link to my ebook about the history of Stack Exchange written in the style of Genesis and Exodus: link

2

CMW

11:37 PM

I loved reading the comments on the geese question

enderland

best part is I can't click the link @jmac because of the mouseovers :P

CMW

@jmac Someone should actually put these croncials in writing

for generations to come

@enderland me too

jmac

@RhysW I am not only a lightbulb, I am a lightbulb containing the earth. And all its earthly gases. Which was a really tough engineering feat to accomplish.

CMW

probably same macbook ^^

jmac

I actually wonder if there's a book about the history of Stack Exchange.

enderland

11:40 PM

@jmac meta.SE

jmac

It'd be an interesting read, especially if you did an interview with the developers along the way. We do have the podcasts, but it is interesting to read the old meta posts, and the old blogs, to kind of see how the entire thing progressed.

CMW

we could re-title meta.SE

jmac

And I also love seeing posts from Shog9 and the like from (presumably) before they became employees. Especially Shog seems to have changed his communication style dramatically from 4 years ago (for the better in my opinion)

CMW

"StackExchange - an autobiography"

enderland

@jmac "oh, I can't be so blunt and insensitive now that I'm officially an SE employee? damnit!"

jmac

11:41 PM

I actually mean a real history, not a 5-year collection of complaints. It would be very interesting to take an objective look back at what they wanted to accomplish, what they did accomplish, and how their objectives changed midstream.

@enderland The opposite actually. He was a lot more tactful in his earlier posts.

enderland

oh, really? I was shooting from the hip with that quip

jmac

He says things like, "In my opinion" and the like -- it's confusing.

enderland

imo it's best to not say that, generally

jmac

That's why I'm saying his writing has improved since 4 years ago. He cut out a lot of the dilly-dallying and now gets to the point. Which I like.

enderland

I think I have somewhat too

writing answers here (and reading others) has made me a heck of a lot better at writing "answers" and my opinion

still a long way to go

jmac

11:43 PM

And I also understand a lot better after participating in meta.SO and the like. When you're not a member of the dev team, the last thing you want to do to get your ideas implemented is to piss off the dev team. So you hem and haw and beat around the bush.

enderland

lol

CMW

:)

Like I usually say: Developers are divas

jmac

> reading jmac's answers here has made me a heck of a lot better at writing "answers" and my opinion, and it made me lose 10 pounds! — enderland 2 mins ago

2

CMW

Exhibit A: point to self

lol

enderland

@jmac nope, that's clearly false

well on the in my opinion part at least lol

jmac

11:46 PM

regrow hair? double my salary? What are my features and benefits here?

enderland

double your salary? sure

$0 x 2 = $0

jmac

My answers slice, dice, and make julienne fries?

enderland

3

Q: How should I handle a boss that threatened to fire me and won't explain why?

I work at a small company with three managers (Andy, Bob and Charlie, for the purposes of this question). Andy has been making snide and cutting remarks to me in meetings, making me feel uncomfortable. I asked in private if anything was wrong, and he told me everything was fine. I had a meeting ...

management communication firing

I shouldn't post my initial thought, which is

CMW

seasoned advice?

jmac

Read now and receive one additional answer totally free! (just pay separate S&H, allow 6-8 weeks for delivery, other terms and conditions may apply)

enderland

11:47 PM

"call his bluff!"

jmac

The question as-is is just "what should I do?"

enderland

which is why I want to respond "call his bluff"

"go all in"

jmac

7

A: Repeated Question Meme - "I feel like [my head is going to explode]. How should I handle this?"

Do we really want to accept these questions that are all more or less fishing for 'how do I do what I really want to do in a polite way' vs. asking for actual advice? I have been thinking about this a fair bit. The main thing I keep coming back to is that a lot of these questions are the Sta...

I quote the venerable community member who wrote that answer in the hopes that the question will be closed.

enderland

I want the free rep for saying something like "bosses like that are bullies, you shoudl leave ASAP"

jmac

Hey blazerr, and welcome to The Workplace! Right now I am having a bit of trouble understanding what exactly you need help with. Do you want to keep your job? Do you want to know why you are being threatened? Do you want to improve your working relationship with Andy and/or Charlie? To get good answers, you can make an edit to explain what you think a solution would be, and how you're having trouble implementing it. Thanks in advance! — jmac 8 secs ago

Gah! You posted a comment in the interim saying the same thing!

What are you trying to accomplish? There's not really a practical question in this. "what should I do?" is not constructive for a Q/A site without a desired outcome. See here for why this sort of post is not appropriate for The Workplace. Please read the FAQ to ensure you are asking an appropriate question, thanks! — enderland 53 secs ago

enderland

11:51 PM

sniped

CMW

leave them both in place

guilt-trip the hell out of the OP

jmac

@CMW, our goal should never be to guilt trip anyone. It's hard to understand TWP and what is acceptable. Our goal should be to help encourage members to ask better questions, not guilting them in to leaving!

enderland

they should quit. all of them. ALL OF THEM!

CMW

:-)

@jmac I know :) I was joking

It's just two high-rep/mod members of the community posting the same thing at once, that's sort of imposing

jmac

@CMW Just making sure. We really are working hard to make sure that TWP becomes a good resource, and I wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand our intentions. We don't all need to be as nice as jmort, but we should all try to be respectful at the least.

@CMW Neither of us are mods -- I don't even have 10k rep. So this is all enderland.

CMW

11:55 PM

Ah, I thought enderland was a mod since he can protect questions

enderland

woah I'm almost to 20k rep here. I need a life XD

jmac

Wow, I am the owner of the highest viewed question on the site, and the highest voted answer!

CMW

nice

jmac

@enderland You need to pull a RhysW and get a new job.

"JUST QUIT!"

enderland

@CMW 20k users (which is way less on a meta site, not sure what threshold, 5k maybe?) can protect questions after 24 hours

CMW

11:56 PM

4k

enderland

we have a 0 day limitation here though

which is great

since we get mounds of crap

CMW

hehe

jmac

@CMW Trusted users can protect questions. For normal sites you need 20k, but for beta sites you need 4k

CMW

thanks

jmac

@enderland That was the result of a pretty lengthy discussion with Shog9 the other day actually. And not normal.

(also temporary if he determines we are abusing it)

enderland

11:57 PM

yeah I skimmed that

if he does I'll point out a few questions with liek 5+ deleted @#%@#y answers :P

jmac

It really does improve the ability of us to moderate through the deluge of hot questions though, for which I am truly thankful.

enderland

our mods aren't active either, realistically

jmac

We should all write him a nice thank you card. Is there a collaborative e-card maker online so we can all draw a lot of freehand red circles and poorly mouse-drawn text?

enderland

ms paint

CMW

@jmac I'm very much on board with that

enderland

11:59 PM

make a git repo

collaborative MS paint, what coudl possibly go wrong?

jmac

@enderland jmort has said that when the volume of flags is high, he has less time to devote to actually participating in the community, and more time just handling flags. So I think he's around, just swamped because we are all also swamped handling all the new users.

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