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1:01 AM
@Paul Brown: You're a swell guy. I'm glad we could help.
@jmort253: I've been seeing a lot of ridiculous downvoting lately.
@JimG. I occasionally see stuff downvoted I disagree with, but everyone has their own opinion.
The best we can do is try to see what people may have disagreed with and help resolve those issues with suggestions and edits, if possible.
@PaulBrown Thanks Paul for this feedback! It's great to hear that our site is making a real impact on people's lives!
Be sure to share this with your friends, neighbors, colleagues, and anyone else who you think would benefit from this community. :)
Let us know what your first day is like! :)
@JimG. And there are times when we might learn something ourselves. Like Paul, this site has been a great resource for me, and I'm always thrilled when I'm able to learn something here that I didn't know before... or that I thought I knew.. :)
1:30 AM
@jmort253: I totally agree. // My only regret: A lot of interesting people have left Programmers.SE.
Holy mother of goodness this new Help Center thing is annoying. I'd love it if @jmort253 could chime in on what options we have in improving it when he gets a chance. See this meta post:
Q: Editing the Help Center

jmacIt looks like our FAQ link now redirects to a help center. I don't think it has the same information as it used to (it would seem, not 100% positive). This is apparently universally rolled-out across all SE sites according to this meta post. Personally I find it much more difficult to find what...

Also, I think this question is pretty inappropriate for the site as it is, and would like to invite people to read and check to see if they agree (and if so, add a close vote):
Q: How to land a job in large-scale web development?

DirtyOldManFor ten years I was writing pretty boring web apps in .NET and Rails and it seems like a dead-end to me. How can I get a job at the companies developing large-scale distributed web applications? What skills should I have for them to ignore my complete lack of experience in that area? Oh, and I ne...

@jmac: I agree. But the only thing more annoying than that was when a new moderator would say: Hello [username]! Welcome to Workplace.SE! Your question is 'Too Localized'. Please read the FAQ! [With a redirect link.]
@jmac: Either way. I don't see that empty redirect anymore, so maybe we'll all lean on that FAQ a little less.
@jmac: Point being - There's a lot of people (even beyond the moderators) who are willing to lend a helping hand and understand, clarify, edit, and reopen worthy questions.
@jmac: I already voted to close the second question.
@jmac I still need to look into this further, but it looks like the About page replaces the part of the FAQ that tells users what our site is about.
So, when posting welcome messages, we can use [about] as the shortcut markup to the about page.
On another note, we can make changes to things in the about page such as the example questions
the ask about and don't ask about sections.
The new FAQ is just so intimidating
especially for a site like here which is a bit more, errr, tricky than others due to subjectivity and the tendency for folks to think it is an advice column in SE format.
it is..... but @jmac, the about page isn't intimidating is it?
1:45 AM
But there's no link to the about page anymore
It looks like the help center is something you'd go to after you've spent some time on the site and got the SE bug.
Oh, I lied, it's at the bottom
checking in incognito window
but nowhere anyone will actually see it
Can you open an incognito window in your browser?
1:46 AM
Yes, give me a second
At the top of workplace.stackexchange.com, the top half of the page consists of a welcome message, and a big orange "tell me more" button.
It links directly to the about page.
You're right, it does get linked first time
When someone asks a question, there's an orange box in the right hand side of the window with some advice
are we able to tweak that?
Right now it says: "
How to Ask

Is your question about the workplace?

We prefer questions that can be answered, not just discussed.

Provide details. Share your research.

If your question is about this website, ask it on meta instead.

read the faq »
asking help »"
Really, most people don't go right for the faq anyway, so we'll always need to coach new users and help them grasp what we're about when they do decide to contribute, but that's okay. We have a lot of friendly, helpful people leaving nice comments and helping to create more success stories like Paul Brown. :)
Yeah, @PaulBrown did good! So happy he shared that with us.
@jmac When clicking the faq link on the right, it takes us to the help center, but the top half is that same welcome message with the big orange button.
The "Take the tour" button.
1:51 AM
Yeah, I just think we could make it a bit more user-friendly for first time askers by tweaking the text (not the links)
If they're going to the about page, no issue, but if they aren't, we could really benefit from saying more than those 4 lines.
@jmac Sounds like an MSO feature request. If SE isn't working on that, I'm sure they'd love that to be brought to their attention.
Oh man, I really dislike MSO...
Okay, why not.
Looks like it was tweaked in 2010
Q: Improving "How to Ask" sidebar?

Jeff AtwoodI particularly enjoyed the Google Webmaster Central blog entry Tips for getting help with your site. It covers how to ask questions in a public forum rather well, and I think almost all the rules apply to our Q&A engine: Ask in public. Do your homework. Be specific. Make it relevant to others....

No, no it wasn't. Instead they made a mandatory page
I really dislike MSO sometimes.
@jmort253 one more question, how do I take someone to chat in a comment thread? If there are enough comments it suggests it, but how do I do it pre-emptively?
[chat] is a shortcut to chat.stackexchange.com
Of course, you can create rooms if you need one. It just takes 100 rep: workplace.stackexchange.com/privileges/chat-rooms
Ideally, bringing people to this room would be most helpful as there would be more people to contribute to the conversation.
I'll do that -- thanks for the help
Hey @DirtyOldMan -- I'm glad you gave it another shot, but I think this is still a bit too specific and almost an exact duplicate of the last question you asked which was closed by the community. You are asking for personal advice rather than something that may help other people in the future. Any chance you could focus your question on one aspect of this issue, such as, "When applying to a related industry, should I be applying to entry-level positions?" or something of the sort?> — jmac 1 hour ago
@jmac I don't think anyone needs an answer to the generic question. The generic answer for all software industry career development questions is "learn, blog, write open source". The fields and subfields are different and career advice from a lawyer won't do any good to software developer and vice versa. The requirement of generality is exactly the opposite of the rules I've seen on other SE sites - they want a question that could have a specific, concrete answer. — DirtyOldMan 1 hour ago
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't asking for a generic question, I asked you to focus your question on one more general aspect of the current situation. This site is supposed to be a resource for other people, so asking, "This is my work history and this is what I want to do, how can I do it?" is not a good fit. However, asking, "When changing fields, what position should I be looking for?" has a much broader appeal and will help both you (looking for a job in a new field) and other people (who are doing the same, even in different fields). — jmac 51 mins ago
@jmac Are suggesting that software developers and medical doctors should post the same questions and receive the same advice? What about young and old people? Should they receive the same advice too? — DirtyOldMan 7 mins ago
@DirtyOldMan Let me explain my point a bit more clearly. If your question is so specific it will only apply to "above average" software developers of .NET and rails who have 10 years of experience, "a patchy work history" and want to break in to the "large-scale web development" industry, then it is far too specific. How many other people do you think that will help?
@DirtyOldMan but if it's a question like, "I have 10 years of experience in language X but want to move to language Y, what sort of position would be appropriate to apply for considering I have no experience in language Y?" then the advice would be applicable to you, but also help anyone who has extensive experience in one field, and wants to move to a related field (even doctors, perhaps).
@DirtyOldMan limiting the scope of your question to an incredibly localized set of conditions makes the question less valuable. The question you ask should help you, but it shouldn't help only you. If you have an issue finding a question that sits in that happy middle-ground, then we are more than willing to help you out here.
@jmort253 Feature requested here:
Q: Can the "How to Ask" Sidebar be edited?

jmacWhen you ask a question on any SE site, you get a sidebar like this one: Who is allowed to edit this text for each community? This is visible to anyone who asks a question, even if they have ignored the FAQ and the About page, and is a very useful tool to getting direct advice across. I can't...

2:09 AM
@jmac my question applies to any experience developer who wants to get away from a boring, uninteresting software development job.
@synapse The answer to your current question would be quite simply, "Apply to large-scale developer jobs and hope you get one" -- there isn't much advice we can give beyond that...
@synapse the FAQ specifically states:
"How do I learn to be a..." / "How do I perform the job of a ..."

Questions should be about problems you are encountering or have encountered in the workplace, and not the learning/applying of specific job functions.
@jmac it's a generic answer to a specific question. how can I get more specific answer if I make my question more generic?
@synapse Your question can only invite generic answers because any specific answer would become too localized and not help others.
Making the question generic will allow us to create an answer that explains why and how to that generic issue, and allow you to understand the method of applying that thought to your own situation
@jmac but if i make my question more generic the answers will be even more generic and won't help others as well
@synapse I'm not suggesting leaving out the background so that people who do have specific domain knowledge can focus their answer more, I am suggesting that you make the question about a specific concrete issue that people can answer rather than a generic, "This is my background, this is what I want to do, advice please" which isn't appropriate for the site
2:15 AM
@jmac everyone can google generic HR BS. people need something that applies to their specific field.
I actually edited the advice part out.
Feel free to edit that further if I misunderstood what you were looking for, @synapse.
Hoping that helps
@jmort253 that's a separate question from the one we're discussing right now. We're going over this one right now:
Q: How to land a job in large-scale web development?

DirtyOldManFor ten years I was writing pretty boring web apps in .NET and Rails and it seems like a dead-end to me. How can I get a job at the companies developing large-scale distributed web applications? What skills should I have for them to ignore my complete lack of experience in that area? Oh, and I ne...

Oh :)
@synapse Have you read over the faq for the site yet?
@synapse because I'm having a very hard time understanding how your question is able to fit in with the guidelines we've put forward
@synapse polling people for "what skills are good for a large-scale web developer?" is off-topic
@jmac i've read it and it seems it limits the usefulness of the site.
2:20 AM
@synapse then you can start a discussion on meta making the case for allowing highly specific questions on how to get a specific job
@jmac it's interesting because there's no other place on SE to ask such questions. any career questions are forbidden on stackoverflow, superuser etc
@synapse from the perspective of many users, having these sorts of, "Here is my situation, what should I do?" greatly limits the usefulness of the site turning it in to a "Dear Workplace" site, rather than a collection of knowledge on how to deal with workplace issues.
Career questions are allowed on Workplace, so long as they follow the guidelines. If you want to know how to get a job in a large-scale web developer, you're better off talking to recruiters, or friends in those sorts of jobs, or directly applying -- we can't help you with any of those things.
@jmac question that can't have a clear answer are forbidden on stackoverflow and that rule made SO what it is now
@jmac Why did we decide to make career questions off-topic?
I'm not 100% sure I remember.
@jmort253 My feeling was that it was because career questions are either (a) too localized, (b) polling, or (c) end up flooding us with questions of, "Which job should I take?" and other "Dear Abby" sorts of questions
2:23 AM
@jmac oh, that's nice. if your code doesn't work as intended you better talk to your colleagues, ask the vendor but please don't go asking around StackOverflow
@synapse you may benefit from reading this article good subjective, bad subjective
@synapse I am trying to help you out here, I am confused by the hostility.
@synapse if you would prefer I just let your question get closed over and over without getting advice, I am more than happy to shut my yap.
@synapse My goal is to help you get advice by explaining why your question is getting downvotes, close votes, and no answers
@jmac it's because i've made a question according to the guidelines of other SE sites which encourage concrete questions and answers.
@jmac that's why i don't really understand the downvotes
I actually feel like this question would make for a good meta discussion on our site. It doesn't really appear to be a dear abby or a which job should I take.
@synapse generally statements here which start "I hate my job, it's a dead end and I've been doing it for a decade" are not good questions
there can be exceptions, but almost always, they end up as not good questions for the site
@jmac it could answered by saying "do this, this and that and you'll probably get this job if you don't do these things you won't get it"
2:28 AM
your question is "help me through the entire job process from start to finish"
that's not a specific question
@enderland i admit it's a bit ranty but have you read the whole question? it's pretty concrete.
you want advice on an interview?
what about getting a resume put together
or how to find jobs?
I don't know
@synapse If I were a paid recruiter trying to find you a job (which I'm not), and had access to your entire resume and work history (which I don't), the best I could do is find you jobs to apply for, and explain that successful candidates for those jobs have X, Y or Z on their resumes.
or what about how to research companies?
how about how to dress for interviews
or maybe how to best prepare your portfolio (do you even need one?)
literally every one of those questions is required for the "answer" to your question
@jmac well, that's what i'm asking - what are the companies working on a big web projects look for.
2:29 AM
@synapse But let's say I say on this site, "You should be sure you have experience in languages X, Y, and Z" will that help you out if you don't have experience in X, Y, and Z? Not really. So the questions mutates to, "How do I get skills X, Y, and Z?" which is no longer a workplace question...
@jmac then i could decide if i'm up to the task
Not to mention that X, Y, and Z may turn in to A, B, and C in 6 months.
@synapse How to land a job in large-scale web development?
that's what you are asking
@synapse the best way to figure out if you're qualified is to apply. Even if I tell you exactly what I want a resume to look like, I am not hiring for those sorts of jobs in your area, and your mileage may vary
in unrelated news. ABUSING CHAT OWNER POWERS, brb
2:31 AM
Even if I were able to provide an exhaustive checklist of the skills large-scale web developers want, the question mutates to, "I have items 1-13, 16, and 33-36, sort of on 48. Do I have a chance?" and the answer is, "I have no idea"
@jmac if you say "you should absolutely have experience with X" it would definetely help me
@synapse what about the person who finds this post 12 months from now? or 24 months?
@jmac it doesn't mutate. after a list of priorities i'll evaluate myself and decide what to do next
@synapse So I should go through the entire list of web-development jobs, list out the specific requirements for each that are musts, and then provide a list of beneficial skills that will be evaluated positively for each position in each company?
@jmac .... which is only relevant for the next year or so, maybe
2:33 AM
@enderland someone may invent a unifying theory thus invalidating all answers on physics SE
@synapse Perhaps I'm a bit off here, but couldn't you accomplish the exact same thing by looking for job openings, talking to headhunters, and applying?
@synapse That would give you infinitely better advice than what any of us can give, because it is 100% personalized, and 100% pertinent
@jmac you're not obligated to do anything. i'm looking for answers from people who were in my situation and people from the companies I would like to work at.
@synapse It sounds to me like you're restless and hate your job, and just want someone to give you reassurance that you can move on to something more fun
@synapse I would say it's less likely physics will be revolutionized than the specific "learn this technology to be a web developer in june 2013" will be obscolete
@synapse that sounds like a job for LinkedIn, not for SE.
2:36 AM
@enderland are you sure it is about learning some specific technology?
@synapse I'm honestly not sure what you are actually asking, here, since your title of the question and all its text strikes me as considerably different than the chat conversation
@synapse I understand you're frustrated. Really I do. I know you think that there's a magical answer out there to your question. That someone can provide this perfect answer that will allow you to make a decision on what to do. But there isn't. If you want another job, no advice will tell you if you can get it. The only way to know is to try. Even if I said "There's no chance you can get it with your skills" you would be foolish if you trusted me (no matter how experienced I am)
If you want to do it, you can find a way.
@enderland I really think some editing would help clarify this question. As someone who works in development, I could see this being answered in a way that doesn't require listing specific technologies.
@jmac as i said earlier, i'm not a native speaker, so it's different when I write a long question and typing in chat
I haven't worked in large scale shops, but if the question were about how to jump into a startup or smaller companies, I'd definitely be able to offer a solid answer that didn't involve anything about specific technologies.
2:38 AM
so if I understand this conversation correctly, you are trying to ask:
@enderand if you are not a software developer you won't understand and that's ok
you know what, I was going to help you
but have fun, and I'll go do more enjoyable things this evening - best of luck getting help and clarity on something by attacking those who are trying to help!
@synapse I think I can see why you may have a patchy work history...
2:39 AM
@enderland jmort253 understands what I'm talking about
@synapse enderland is a software developer, and incredibly knowledgeable about this sort of stuff. Really, antagonizing him isn't the proper approach.
@jmort253 i've specifically haven't mentioned startups. i've tried this road and ended being the smartest guy in the room. and that's exactly the thing i want to avoid
I know, I was just saying that I could relate in the other direction.
actually, this might be worth a shot
@synapse first step in your recovery from a boring/crappy job is people skills
@enderland I don't think he meant to insult you.
2:42 AM
once you figure that out, anyone who is a talented person who can write any sort of terrible code (let along GOOD code) can get a job doing nearly any development job they want
@enderland at least it's an answer. well, maybe i suck at talking to people
@jmort253 yeah -- that's the point. He didn't try to be insulting, but was.
so if you are an incredibly talented developer as you seem to imply, you should have no problems getting jobs in software - regardless of field (perhaps different if you are in countries where the economy is terrible, but most of the world this is not the case)
I think he just meant to say that a non-software dev would have trouble understanding the problem, and that may be true.... and there are some non-software folks on this site, so it's not wrong to assume some of us aren't devs.
@enderland i've never said i'm incredibly talented
2:43 AM
so either start networking or working on some freelance projects (again, if you are so good at this you should be able to spend a weekend and put together a portfolio to use as reference) and start applying
@synapse i've tried this road and ended being the smartest guy in the room.
@synapse "I'm not a rockstar but I'm definitely above average (I was an interviewer a couple of times and man that was depressing)"
@enderland it actually says more about start-ups i worked at than about my brilliance
@synapse ok, fine, then don't generalize that to all startups. I suspect the average startup employee is more talented than "big company" employees
@enderland i don't
@enderland but i want to know how to get job at good ones.
what is a "good one"
2:47 AM
@enderland there's definetely a language barrier at work here, because you clearly implying things i never said nor thought.
@synapse you literally just said you want to get a job at "good ones"
I am asking you, what is a "good one"
@enderland i was referring to your previous messages
@enderland about me considering myself "brilliant hacker" and considering all startups bad
What is a company which is a "good one?"
@enderland company with some hackers
all companies have some hackers in them
are you looking for a company which is full of hackers?
has a small group of them?
has a small number of them?
2:50 AM
@enderland a company with a healthy proportion of hackers
@synapse the reason I'm asking is because I do not think you know what type of job you want
@synapse to be bluntly honest, it sounds like you have no idea what you want, or if you do aren't able to communicate it to the people who could help you
@synapse the first step to getting people to help you out is to be able to clearly define what help it is you need. This isn't about generic or non-generic questions, it's about clearly stating what it is you are looking for help with, and giving enough context for people to be able to help.
@jmac how is "working on a large-scale distributed web applications" not clear enough?
@synapse from what you've said (10 years, find your job boring, patchy work experience, not such great communication skills) I think that the issue has little to do with the type of company, and more to do with a lack of understanding on what you want and/or a lack of ability to work hard to get what you want.
@synapse If you know what job you want, apply for it -- don't ask if you will get it, because we can't help you there (we aren't the ones doing the hiring).
@jmac the problem with applying is that there're not that many good companies here. i don't want to blow my chance.
@jmac some companies have policies about re-evaluating candidates and some just never invite you to an interview again.
2:54 AM
@synapse If there are few companies with few positions you want, look for the job descriptions of those companies/openings, and you can figure out if you qualify or not.
@synapse what country are you in?
@jmac russia
@synapse so you have a list of companies and jobs you want to work for. You have given us two to three sentences on your qualifications, no information on the actual jobs you want (beyond the incredibly generic "large-scale distributed web applications"), and you expect us to be able to explain if you are qualified?
@synapse That just doesn't make any sense.
another reason i've asked this question is that some time ago i've got what i thought is a dream job. but it turned out to be a dead-end too. the only person who had the authority to do interesting stuff was one of the founders.
@jmac are you a software developer?
@synapse No. That has little bearing on this though, since we're at the point where you are having generic work-related problems, not specific ones related to software development.
@synapse at any rate, I am about at the end of my ability to help
3:02 AM
@jmac if you are not a software developer how can you know if a "large scale distributed web application" is a generic or specific term?
@synapse good luck, but realize the question will likely be closed very soon (4 close votes right now) for the reasons I initially explained. People in chat are able to help (if they are willing to), but if you want to ask on the main site, I suggest clarifying what you want to ask.
@synapse Just because I do not develop software does not mean I am not familiar with software.
@synapse I am almost positive that none of you are even vaguely related to my field. That doesn't mean I assume you know nothing about it.
@synapse I've worked in software in the past. I work with software in my current job every day (as a user). I deal with "large-scale distributed web applications" and configuring them to suit the needs of my team.
@jmac but most likely our assumptions about your field would be wrong
@jmac "large-scale distributed web application" is for example facebook, or this site.
@jmac ok, whatever. i guess there's just no place on SE to ask these questions so I'll go talk to my pet bear over a Samovar of Vodka.
@synapse I updated your question to better reflect this conversation and what you are trying to ask
3:20 AM
@enderland to be fair, the first one is kinda ranty, the second one is more concrete (but as i learned it's a problem too)
5 hours later…
8:13 AM
Well, that was an, interesting, read
3 hours later…
11:25 AM
Oh yay, its one of Those days, sigh, we have an ex developer with a reputation for writing some of the worst code we have, i get the joys of dealing with that today, kill me now xD
2 hours later…
1:09 PM
@synapse I am guessing you do not want to do maintenance type work for a Facebook, Amazon, SE, Google, or other large site. You want to be an original developer. The thing is these large distributed web apps start off as small projects developed by a small group of people.
No one puts together a giant engineering team and spends millions of dollars developing a web app that the market for is questionable. So instead they start off as small projects that get refactored as they need to grow.
So your dream job probably does not exist right now. Maybe in 20 or 30 years software development will be more science and less art. Right now companies would rather take risks with a few artists than a butt load of engineers.
@Chad Thats a good point, i never even thought of that
@Chad the government probably does
@enderland i cant tell if this is sarcastic or not :D
I don'tthink I want to know whether there is truth in that or not....
1:30 PM
That was interesting o_O
2:14 PM
@enderland That is why you see such success with government portals...
@Chad the government is a beacon of light in how to manage large projects and finances. I'm not sure what you are suggesting ;)
The government uses 10 year old development standards and tech with known vulerabilities because that what the legislation that authorised the funding of the project called for becauseit was cutting edge when the project was proposed, then a year to get approved, 3 years planning, 2 years in bid process, 5 years of development later...
And the governtment doesnt hire hacker programmers they hire career IT process devlopers
@enderland baaaaaaaah
You are just afraid because you found out that they were monitoring everything on the interweb tubes... me I realize how incompetent they government really is so I know that the amount of data overwelms them :p
2:37 PM
@Chad From what i've heard about them even if the only data they got was stuff from, those who wish them harm, they still wouldn't know what to Do with that information
3:00 PM
@Chad I love Dave Ramsey if only for his ridiculously direct approach and statements about the gov and money
3:13 PM
@enderland Its funny how if you cut out all the crap that you dont need the truth is plain and simple though rarely easy
We spend far to much time making things more complicated in the effort to make things easier
1 hour later…
4:17 PM
its friday and we havent had any stupid questions
we havent had any questions today atall...
4:38 PM
@RhysW We have I just hacked SE and implemented a stupidity filter... sadly our traffic has fallen to nothing
1 hour later…
5:49 PM
awkward: going out to lunch with people in the same position as you, having someone bring up "did you negotiate your offer at all?" and then hearing people lament that there was no ability to get a signing bonus.... when you got one by negotiating
LOL I had something similar happen where the group talked about how the salaries for the positions were fixed and everyone there made the same... about half of what I Was being paid for the same position.
yeah that would have been much worse
though I do make more presumably since I have a masters (well, mostly)
I was just willing to walk away from their lowball offer
And I told them what my number was and walked away from a 5% reduction too
@Chad I had the problem where I somewhat wanted to work for my current company
so I wasn't willing to do that on the small chance they said "tough luck"
I also pressed pretty damn hard, too :P
you can almost always go back to their last offer if you do it with in a week or so
5:57 PM
yeah. in retrospect, I think I could have pushed much harder
or more directly
I didn't suggest a number I was hoping for (which was dumb)
now... when I move positions in the next two years, I'm going to be an aggressive and assertive bastard to that hiring manager and make myself a nice raise, since I will convince them I'm worth it ;)
6:19 PM
@enderland :)
Relationships and Dating

Proposed Q&A site for people seeking answers to questions about dating, long term relationships, love, marriage or other commitments, and everything else typically considered a "relationship".

Currently in commitment.

do you have trouble committing in relationships? commit to this proposal? hah
I want to see this SE take off, hah
OMG that would be a bigger train wreck than politics :p
Why GF/Wife/Mistress is a cheating ho! What should i do
@Chad slap them, obv
OMG my gf has not checked in for 15 min is she cheating on me? What should i do
6:49 PM
OMG my girlfriend is annoyed because i slept with her twin sister, its not like i can tell them apart y know what i mean? #YOLO ~SWAG #STD CLINIC
those are the sort of questions id expect there tbh
you dont want to be a part of that? sad
not even a little
still waiting for this darned space one to kick off
so close
about 40 left to go
oh great xD out of context i sound like a total d-bag :P
I think it'd be somewhat fun tbh
7:22 PM
Dear R&A SE, I am on mars and finding it very difficult to find a mate since 98% of the people here are male and the other 2 are lesbians. What should i do?
Q: How do you address short term employment and unemployment on a resume?

user9424My question is how do you address both short term employment and unemployment on a resume that occurred back to back of each other? It seems like it presents a red flag either way. On the one hand, if the short term employment is listed followed by the unemployment period, then it would seem li...

I am pretty sure this si a dub ... not finding

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