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11:02 AM
I have a question i want to ask, but im not entirely sure if it fits with the specifications for a good question, you guys mind if i run it by you here first?
3 hours later…
2:26 PM
I hate the fact that the top voted answer is legally terrible for this question
Q: How to go around a recruiter who submits unsolicited candidates?

Awkward QuestionRecently, my company received an unsolicited email from a recruiter with information about a potential candidate. We don't normally work with recruiters and our job ads all say 'No recruiters'. This recruiter provided the potential candidate's first name and current employer and that was more t...

@RhysW Go for it Rhys
2:50 PM
@Chad i wanted to ask a question about how one could go about interviewing someone, for the role of an interviewer / internal recruiter. but i fear it might be a little too localised / off topic, the type of answers i am expecting are ones that will allow for his skills to be assessed acurately
@Chad i dislike the top answer because they did use the recruiters services, and wouldnt have found out about the guy otherwise, and they are asking how to rip him off basically, and everyone is siding with him and against the recruiter whose doing his job!
3:10 PM
Q: If you provided an incorrect answer to a technical question on an interview, should you respond with a correct response?

RLHConsider the situation where you've applied for a technical position (i.e. in Software Engineering) and on a phone interview you were asked a technical question. Regardless of the reason, you respond to the question with either an "I don't know" or an answer that isn't what the interviewer is tr...

didn't we hvae this EXACT questino a while ago?
3:23 PM
@RhysW And my answer has been downvoted...
@RhysW I think it would be fine so long as you keep it general asking what qualities to look for and questions to ask, rather than focusing on your specific circumstances.
Can I nominate this question as most ironic question of all time?
Q: Improve English skills of a colleague

MafiosalaI have a colleague (non-native speaker) who joined recently. Ours is an IT firm where we need to communicate on a regular basis with folks around the globe. His technical skills are pretty decent, but when it comes to communication it is miserable. Mainly he has an issue with verbs. e.g. ...

The guy asking this uses really poor and quirky grammar and word choice himself in the question/comments
3:40 PM
I have decided I agree now that the question about avoiding the corporate soul sucking was not a real question.
The "hot question" on how to pronounce rendezvous proves we don't have the worst hot questions ;P
4:02 PM
@Chad I'm going to fight a battle against that my entire life :)
@Chad poorly written at that (but that's asshole)
I dont like that question about soul sucking, hes basically saying, i hate everyone and everything, tell me how to make it better, also im going to swear about everything and blame other people for being intolerable
Rant as question
thats the definition i was looking for
It's just one of the more popular ones, which is phrased slightly more questiony than the more obvious ones
4:14 PM
i think that guy needs to accept he's an asshole and unless he wants to not be an asshole, he will... be an asshole
"it's not corporate culture, it's you" is probably the best answer to that question
"Am I an asshole?" is too localized though
"How do I not be an asshole"
How does being an asshole affect my career?
lol this gives me a great idea for a question. "my boss says I'm too nice and need to be more mean. How do I be a better asshole at work?"
How can I prove my asshole credentials on my resume?
People think im too nice and they walk all over me at work, to get revenge i put cat in all their food, now i might get written up and fired. How does this affect my career?
4:32 PM
Q: Assessing a software developer's prowess in 30 minutes

user1927405How would you test a software developer in 30 minutes or less ? I like the idea of asking him to do several tasks while watching what he's actually doing. What tasks would you ask him to do? (I realise it depends on the job, however would be interested in widely applicable cases) Explain a bus...

it's list request time!!!!!
voted to close,
4:46 PM
I really dislike that question about going around the recruiter
Its got to be my most hated one so far
5:03 PM
@RhysW Is there any way we can flag that answer as not being legally sound
I do not mind the question... it is the fact that the upvoted answers are terrible and legally dangerous
@Chad i wish, i dont get why so many people agree he should be allowed to screw the recruiter over like that just for saying 'no recruiters' they are still using his damn services!
Its like putting a sign in the office that says no microsoft products then installing windows and office on the computers but refusing to buy licences because you have a sign
exactly, most of those answers can get him into serious legal issues
not to mention its downright unethical
people complain about recruiters being shady and yet they tell people its ok to do this to them!
He has already "used" the recruiters service for as far as advice goes.... throw this candidate out or go through the recruiter... but that is not the question
Precisely, you used his service, whether you wanted him to offer it or not you are using it
5:07 PM
@RhysW Two wrongs do not make a right.
@Chad agreed, i seriously dont get some poeple sometimes
The water cooler will be renamed and hence forth be known as "the seething cauldron of rage at crappy questions and answers"
@Chad i like it, but im going to suggest it and not give you any credit, i have a sign saying 'no external ideas'
so its ok
If you do that then I should probably look for a new job
dont apply anywhere that says 'not hiring' or they are allowed to use you to work but not pay you
apparently :P
5:41 PM
@Chad I fought and lost htis battle on a different question before :\
A: Should I be sincere - in an interview - about the reason for leaving my previous job?

bethlakshmiI'd go with cautious honesty. :) Always state your reasons for leaving in positive terms - "I want a new challenge, I work hard at my job, and I'm looking for opportunities for advancement. I'd really like (this big advanced work that you're not currently doing but would like to do) and there's...

This answer is really "No you should disguise your real feeling with canned positive answers"
2 hours later…
7:26 PM
What kind of place requires you to sign a document before the interview saying you will accept an offer if extended?
@kush a place you should never want to work for? :)
@enderland yes sir. That was my conclusion as well.
Q: I am in a dilemma

Chetan MukhopadhyayI am facing this situation. A few days back, I got an offer from CompanyA and I verbally accepted it. Yesterday I got another offer from CompanyB, which is paying a higher salary (about 12%more). After much thought and deliberation, I have decided to go with CompanyA. My specific Question is ...

didn't we have nearly the exact same question already?
Hard to say because of that totally useless title
7:42 PM
@enderland basically, im greedy and want more money, how do i do this? if he wasnt happy with the pay in the first place he shouldnt have accepted it
@RhysW well more "oops I didn't really think through if I actually wanted a job so I accidentally told them I was accepting"
@enderland more like, i like to rush to conclusions then try and get myself out of mistakes, sets a great tone for starting with a company!
@kush A place that I have to apologize but I do not have time for this interview after all I have a pressing appointment about a thing
@Chad that's a great way to decline. thank you
@Chad youre suggesting they quit their interview? i thoght we agreed that was a last resort! :P
7:48 PM
@RhysW That was before I remembered that I had this other thing...
Its a round thing very complex probably take upp all the time I would have to reschedule...
@enderland I know that's a dupe
@kush Honestly I would look the guy straight in the eye and tell him I am not signing that.
Q: Get a raise to match another job offer

wwwuserI've been offered a position at another company for $50K more than what I am getting paid now. However, this other company doesn't completely interest me and I feel I might get bored with the work in a few months. I have a review at my current job soon. I enjoy my current job, yet there are a han...

I swear there's been a closer dupe than this one
there have been
@BenBrocka I thought I remember literally this eact situatino - verbally accepted, then got another offer
7:53 PM
@enderland i remember it too, it was deleted by its owner
@RhysW Really?
@BenBrocka yeah if i remember rightly, i was about to comment on it and suddenly it was gone :/
The answer to that question is too localized. The results will vary by person/company/position/recruiter/budget
There are so many variables that go into that there is no way to answer
I swear we've had more than that. Must be tagged poorly cause I can't find them
@BenBrocka every one of these questions that i remember get forcefully or willingly deleted when they realise its too localised / off topic normally
8:03 PM
Q: Salary Bidding War Between Companies: What is My Proper Etiquette?

ajax81I am blessed to find myself in a fortunate situation. I am gainfully employed by a large fortune 500 company, but have been approached by a small company in the private sector with a very compelling offer that I would like to accept. I notified my employer of my intent to leave, and they asked ...

@Chad that's a lot different - current company and offer vs two offers
there was one nearly identical to the current one at some point
yes there was
I think we have had it several times
its a popular one
too many people rush into saying yes right away
then regret it
and try and backtrack
The problem is people do not know how much to ask for in the first place so when they get a offer that feels reasonable they do not know if it is good or not. My opinion is tell them what you want and accept nothing less.
8:08 PM
@Chad indeed, though I'd skip the "tell them what you want" part (unless you want way above what you should get for that position)
i try to work out how much i spend on my current lifestyle, give it a fudge factor of 10-12 percent, and make that my minimum
@enderland - If you tell them what you want and get what you want you have absolutely no reason to be upset if you get it.
@RhysW I am never going to give a salary figure first, ever, for the rest of my life (at least when interviewing)
@enderland that could be interesting xD
@Chad oh indeed, but, I think a lot of people throw away money when they do that
8:10 PM
@enderland Because they did not do their research.
@Chad Well, I'd say giving out a salary number is nearly always detrimental to the candidate
in terms of total salary
And does it matter if you threw money away if they are paying you what you want?
Only if you are willing to come down.
@Chad if I offered you 5k/year for being able to keep your mouth shut for 30 seconds you'd probably take that right? :)
no underpaid
plus people forget money isnt the only compensation they can get for their job
8:12 PM
@Chad really? I find that hard to believe. You can easily come back if an offer is too low and say "I was rather hoping for something in the range of $xxxxx" (or other tactics, don't actually say that lol)
I give my number and I am firm on it. But I am near the top of my field with increidble references in a high demand field. Its easier to do that from on high than at entry-mid level
@Chad I'd say that if you are in the top of the field it's even more important to not throw a number out initially :P
Im lucky, up for a pay review soon but i know the exact figure im currently billed out at per day XD
The goal of an interview in in some sense is to make hiring managers want you - regardless of salary - and so when you ask for more, they are already "sold"
This! so much of this ^^
8:15 PM
I know my happy number. I do not care if i leave 10k on the table because I got the number I need.
And I have walked away from bigger numbers for positions I knew i did not want
@chad agreed, as long as you are happy with what you have thats all that counts
@Chad That's fair
It is about more than money
@Chad oh, I agree completely - I actually did this recently too, but I see no reason not to seek better compensation for a job I DO want :)
I never disputed the first offer i was given, because it was for an apprenticeship with a company about to double in size, they were offering to pay for everything and give me a wage XD i was sold :L
8:17 PM
@RhysW I added about 15k to an offer I got simply by not saying anything when they asked my salary requirements
Nice! they kept going up til you said ok? XD
If they hit you with a low ball number then you get emotion into a business arrangement(at least I do) better to be straight all around
shrug. it's easier for me, because I LOVE negotiation
@Chad Ah. See, I absolutely love the process of negotiation (when I was younger I did this on a small scale all the time) - so a job interview process is basically a more professional version of this for me
My dad does too ... I hate it. Give me something of value for the right price and I do not need to negotiate.
When I buy a car I know what I want and how much I should pay for it that is my first/last/final offer.
@RhysW No, they just put an offer out there which was 15k higher than everyone else I knew who worked there was at. I was told to hope for a number 10k less than the offer I got lol ;)
@Chad Cars are annoying because of the sunk cost problems
unless you buy new, I guess, but meh
8:20 PM
Why would you buy something someone else has already had problems with
@Chad Hate negotiation
My family, myself included, are all dead-set against leasing though, so car negotiations are always very simple...they never give much leeway with cars bought outright, because they want to screw you on the financing
@BenBrocka When I bought my Edge I first found one I liked at Sexton... I walked away over 100 dollars just because he wanted to be able to tell his manager he got me up. Bought it for my price in Peoria
@BenBrocka they give plenty of leeway on cars bought outright (depending on a variety of factors...)
@enderland Maybe on brand new ones, that hasn't been my experience
@BenBrocka Ahhh... that's a shame (though if you had negotiating, not really a problem then)
8:24 PM
As one example we took a look at one car and checked the price online. In person the car was a complete wreck, whole paint job was ruined, cracked windshield, that car deserved better. They gave the whole "What if we brought it down a few thousand?", went "back to talk it over", came back with the exact price from the website
@Benbrocka lol i like that
I walked out. Wasn't going to buy their shitty car unless it was less than half the cost of other same model/year cars, probably not even then
@BenBrocka Oh, yeah, I think this is how literally every dealership does for people who "walk in" - give a "sale price" or discount/etc off an inflated sticker, people think they get a great deal, and the dealer probably just laughs
The car looked like it had been blasted with gravel from all angles
Whoever does that to a Mercedes should be arrested
And they told me they had no intent to fix it up, either. Who's going to buy that garbage?
I was selling old games for 3 quid a piece, some guy wasnt sure about some of them so i offered him a 'deal' of three for 10 quid, he was so happy with his deal he didnt even realise XD
8:26 PM
@BenBrocka Also, you are in QCA, right? I negotiated a ton with Green when I bought my last car ;)
I don't want to negotiate. Negotiate means "let me BS you while I don't actually change the price and/or actually add hidden costs"
Don't have the car I want? Shove off. Price suddenly increased? Go to hell. Financing? Shove it.
@BenBrocka Well it depends - most people let that happen (b/c they don't LIKE it, and, let's be real, car salesmen/managers have like 1000x more experience at this)
@BenBrocka I think I had something like $70 in dealer fees/charges total - and ended up getting a rebate from them because they apparently overcharged me XD
I hate anything that has to do with salesmen
I noticed.... :-)
We walked out as soon as they pulled a certain degree of sales bullshit regardless of price
8:29 PM
But ben thts the best bit! :P
@BenBrocka I was mainly annoyed because they kept trying to show me the cost/month after I specifically requested the purchase cost of the car.... after I showed the salesman an ammortization table on his computer in Excel they stopped doing this LOL.
listening to them um and er about it whilst they are still 10 grand more than its actual worth
lol enderland, thats the way to do it :D
We didn't even let them suggest monthly costs
That probably nets them an obscene amount of money from non-math people
@enderland you bet it does!
housing agencies get tens of thousands in commission bonusses if they get you to do it monthly payments
one of the commission bonusses i saw was no joke a few grand off being 6 figures
8:35 PM
Well psychologically once people think, "oh, I can afford this each month!" they have set the hook
Yeah, most people are terrible at estimating costs
yup, plus 10/month for 12 months sounds less than 100 upfront
The one time big cost is much scarier than the monthly small cost
Partially because most Americans don't manage finances (at all)
But that's a soapbox I don't want to get on :-)
$20,000?! That's crazy! I'll just pay $40,000 over 2 years
8:37 PM
lol ben, you laugh buts its what people do XD
The sad thing is the list of math tricks are actually pretty short. If you took people through a short trip through the pitfalls you could de-stupid a lot of people and save them a lot of money
1667 a month youd rather pay ben? :L
And, in a perfect world, kill the purpose of slimey salesmen
stupid salesmen :L
No, stupid people enabling salesmen to do stuff like that. Big difference ;)
8:40 PM
Just because someone is stupid does'nt mean you're not a piece of filth for exploiting that
It's not just stupid people that have to put up with their crap either
@enderland that's what I did
@kush XD sorry.... =P don't do that again! :)
@enderland don't do what again?
@kush err, I must have misunderstood what you mean by "that's what I did"
8:47 PM
Please don't tell me you were trolling :(
lol i dont even remember what you two are talking about
@kush well, I happened to just realize you could have either been saying "I enabled a car salesman" or "I was a salesman" - not sure which ;)
Q: How do I cheer up the team after someone is fired?

pbarranisI never know how to deal with the situation, and I could use some professional pointers. We are a small company and a tight-knit team. Generally, our team is full of soft-spoken, kind-hearted folks. And so when an underperforming team member gets let go, no matter how much everyone expected it...

Should questions like this have a "morale" tag or something?
i think so
@enderland oh I just told some guy that I wouldn't sign a document I didn't feel comfortable signing.
8:49 PM
@kush oh. It showed you as replying to my message about salesmen - that's why I got confused. lol
sorry. I didn't link my reply to the correct place
If you just type @person it just highlights their last message, only the arrow shows a specific one
you can do that?
I just got a human verification check on meta.stackoverflow
8:51 PM
didnt even know they had those on se sites
a few things trigger them
I think mostly rate-limit related things
A: How often do CAPTCHAs appear?

Jeff AtwoodTo trigger CAPTCHA while editing, asking, or answering: The minimum window is 5 seconds The maximum window is 40 minutes There is a maximum of: one edit every 30 seconds one answer every 60 seconds one question every 60 seconds To trigger CAPTCHA while doing performing other actions, ther...

@Jim Weird. I wonder if chatting here causes a flag? I don't know if I've done more than one or two answers/questions all day....
I think there is a bit of randomness to it
I got carried away earlier and accidentally flooded the front page of MSO a bit, but didn't get the check
Hi @Jim I didn't know you were the same one from MSO :)
(There's a lot of active Jim's around)
but then im >5k and looks like your ~300something; rep does have some influence
ha yes that was me
and yes there are several
9:01 PM
@RhysW yes :D
ah @kush huh? :L
(select the arrow that looks like an inverted enter)
does hitting escape really clear chat notifications?
@enderland Why don't you test it? :)
I was going to say click the arrow and I ended up hitting backspace furiously and replacing it with the word select because I didn't want to discriminate against touch screen users.
9:03 PM
lol but i click with my finger? :L
dang @Rachel. I was really hoping that was going to work
@enderland so hitting ESC does not clear notifications?
@kush you arent sure?
You CAN remove them by throwing a pointless message into chat, however
9:04 PM
well, I hit esc and it cleared, I think
@kush what?
@rhysw yay im joining in XD
Yeah, it disappeared again. Is it because the textbox was selected?
no, welll that doesn't work for me
9:08 PM
I don't know...
man this is a rough week for me and bounties
like 3 of them are going to expire with no answer
which ones?
@BenBrocka Questions like that should have a closed not a real question tag
Lets have a discussion about a list of ways I can cheer up my team.
@RhysW -
Q: Modern proof why working 40+ hours a week makes you less productive

aitchnyuA few articles claim that working more than 40 hours per week makes you less productive. Longer workweeks eventually make you less productive than 40-hour work weeks. From http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/stop-working-more-than-40-hours-a-week.html ..there's a century of research establishi...

Q: Different number of answers in global inbox and on question page

Toni FrankolaMy inbox says there are 8 answers to my question, but when I click on inbox link the page only show 5. Tried to refresh the page but it is still different. UPDATE: Now now back to 5 in both, is global Inbox maybe showing drafts or something?

Q: How do a fully quote previous email in gmail using "r" shortcut?

enderlandCurrently, with the new version of gmail, the default behavior for the following two situations is inconsistently different. Reply clicking reply button. This fully quotes the previous email including all replies prior to it, so, if you have a conversation of 10 emails, it will show all 10. Rep...

all went unused :(
that middle one, i might have an answer for, because ive watched it happen before but with comments
9:13 PM
well it's more of a "please fix this" thing :D
i got 2 comments for one question, and one from a different, and it merged them and showed 3 comments for the one with just 2 and hid the other one
probably so your inbox isnt spammed with each individual questions statistics
escape totally clears notifications for me
i havent tested it XD
perhaps its different per browser
enderland as for the reply all thing in gmail, i think it depends on what 'view' you ar ein, if youve just selected the email in the list of all, compared to having it open where you see the whole email
9:34 PM
Q: How to use multiple offers to negotiate a higher salary?

Chetan MukhopadhyayI am facing this situation. A few days back, I got an offer from CompanyA and I verbally accepted it. Yesterday I got another offer from CompanyB, which is paying a higher salary (about 12%more). After much thought and deliberation, I have decided to go with CompanyA. My specific Question is ...

seriously still no close votes?
@Chad i was trying to find the duplicate earlier
and i was distracted by enderland XD
sometimes i think were a little harsh on these questions, we seem to debate every other one.
then i remember, people ask a lot of stupid things
@Chad - the law doesn't prevent you from talking about an employee's firing, even to other employers
you're allowed to state anything that you can prove
the only reason most companies don't do so is to avoid frivolous lawsuits
9:50 PM
@enderland Found one similar, commented and close voted.
there were a lot fo similar ones
@enderland That just happens to be one I remember
well i thought we had literallythis exact question (including the "I accepted verbally" part)
@enderland You've been around longer than I, so you're probably right. But I can't find it.
I guess we'e had a ton of variants on "what do I do in the job hunt with offers?" question

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