Time and Relative Dimensions in Spoilers - 2015-12-09

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12:00 AM

@Ixrec I think it's helpful to know that in the previous story, Caves of Androzani, the Fifth Doctor and Peri had both been poisoned and he spent much of the story doing terribly brave and dangerous things to get a cure. In the end there was only enough antidote for one person, and he fought off regeneration long enough to get it to her.

...and then promptly tried to kill her.

that only makes it more baffling

helps explain fanboy rage though

Behind the scenes, the (equally baffling) idea was that Four and Five had been "too likeable."

> The idea was that over the many, many years I would be playing the part, the outer layers would gradually peel away, revealing the kind-hearted soul.

that doesn't really seem like something that would make any sense for the Doctor

There is a moderately sensible fan interpretation.

There's a common idea --and New Who seems to have taken it up-- that although the Doctor doesn't have conscious control over his regenerations (because they're triggered automatically on his death rather than deliberately by him), his subconscious feelings at the time of regeneration influence its effects.

@Ixrec Where are you watching these?

12:08 AM

found a super-torrent with literally all the Old Who

now my main problem is hard drive space

@Ixrec Ah, thats a shame. I don't torrent since I nearly ruined my PC that one time.

Also, uh, moral reasons? You guys would buy that, right?

as you may have noticed from hanging out in Mos Eisley, I'm the weirdo who actually pays for most of the movies and TV shows I watch

I'm making an exception for Old Who because there's a ton of it and no cost-effective way to gain legal access to all of it

so I'll buy what I like after watching a bunch this way

@Ixrec Oh, I'm not trying to say you shouldn't. Piracy is one of many areas where I do not have a moral high ground.

lol

but yes I would buy "moral reasons"

In that interpretation of regeneration, the Fifth Doctor's life as a largely non-violent wallflower led to his death. He subconsciously resents that attitude, and the careless humans who caused his death for their own selfish desires. So he regenerates as a brash, blustering Doctor who is always the centre of attention and takes a dim view of most sapients.

1:01 AM

I'm slow but I get memos eventually

@BESW Wow is there really as much old who as new who now?

That doesn't seem right...

That's... not exactly what's being said.

No?

Sylvester McCoy was practically the last Doctor in old who right?

Or what am I missing

From the beginning of Who to the end of the McCoy era is 1963 to 1989: that's "Classic" Who, and it lasted 26 years.

Aaah I see.

Time not volume then.

Then the Wilderness Years lasted from 89 to 2005, with very little official televised Doctor Who content. 16 years.

New Who is from 2005 to 2015. Ten years.

It's now been as long since the end of Old Who as the duration of Old Who. But that includes the Wilderness Years.

3 hours later…

3:40 AM

0

Q: How many regenerations has the Master used so far?

In the Doctor Who universe, the Master, like the Doctor, is a Time Lord with regeneration capabilities. I know he's been played by several different actors, ranging from Roger Delgado in Old Who to Derek Jacobi in New Who and most recently in series 8-9. We have also seen him regenerate on scr...

@BESW ^ There's an opportunity for you to use your Old Who knowledge :-)

@DrRDizzle No, I wouldn't buy "moral reasons" - I'd get a pirated copy of it instead.

5 hours later…

8:55 AM

I've just had a thought. Do you all remember the eighth season episode 'Listen'? In it, towards the end of the episode we see The Doctor and Clara travel forwards to nearly the end of the universe in order to rescue a descendant of Danny Pink and Clara Oswald (don't ask me how that can be true with them both being dead before Clara gave birth). When they reach Danny, he is terrified of whatever is outside the door to the base he is in - apparently something is knocking or tapping on the door.

Is that thing knocking or tapping meant to be Ashildr/Me?

We see in 'Hell Bent' that she survives until the end of the universe, and she knocks 4 times on the door of the TARDIS, to which The Doctor says "It's always four times". At first I thought this was a 'Sound of the Drums' reference, but now I'm thinking it was meant to be a call back to 'Listen'.

9:10 AM

It was definitely an End of Time reference--almost everything in Hell Bent refers back to the Moffat era in some way.

But it could well be that Listen was also "quoting" End of Time.

As for Ashildr... well. This is classic Moffatyness: he's made a character who now changes how you watch many previous stories.

Did he intend her to be implied in that particular episode? [shrug] It hardly matters because now he's got you looking for Ashildr in the cracks of every episode.

I just think it's a little odd that we would find Ashildr at the end of the universe, knocking on the TARDIS in 'Hell Bent', and that in an earlier season we found ourselves at the end of the universe with something knocking on the outside of the base.

And that in 'Listen', the issue was specifically never resolved.

Well, we also know that the Master was at the end of the universe with an obsession over beats of four.

I don't remember The Master being at the end of the universe, other than in 'Utopia', which I thought was before he got obsessed with the drumming.

Yes, in Utopia. And the drumming thing was ret-conned into the Master's entire timeline from the moment he looked into the Untempered Schism as a child, because Rassilon thought it was okay to drive a man mad in order to achieve his goal of destroying the universe.

Ah, gotcha.

So there are two people at the end of the universe with a habit of knocking on things, at minimum.

9:21 AM

(I strongly dislike this move on RTD's part, because it turns the Master's entire time on screen, ever, from being a clever schemer to being a hapless madman.)

@BESW My only knowledge of The Master is Old Man, John Simm and now Missy, so I can't comment. I do hate Missy with a passion though, and not in-universe - she aggravates me every second she is on screen.

...Moffat can't write women. If he could, I'd probably like Missy.

@BESW That's not true. I mean look at...

Um....

you know....

I've decided that Ashildr was under the blanket in 'Listen' too. That episode should now be viewed entirely as a very bored immortal messing with The Doctor over a few billion years.

That might make me like it better.

Kinda like the Fish Doctor helped me enjoy the bits of Day of the Doctor that had Zygons in.

@BESW ...the Fish Doctor?

9:30 AM

The Five (ish) Doctors Reboot was a parody written by Peter Davison and performed by... almost everyone... in response to not being cast in the official 50th Anniversary story Day of the Doctor.

"Fish Doctor" was its production codename, for reasons which became obvious when it was released.

@BESW From that page: "Main enemy: Steven Moffat". That seems accurate.

It's pretty hilarious.

I just got mind wrinkled. The daughter of the fifth Doctor is married to the tenth, played the Doctors daughter in "The Doctor's Daughter", and her last name before marriage was Moffett. She's the most Doctor Who anyone has ever been.

3

It's pretty impressive.

OK, I need to watch this "The Five(Ish) Doctors" episode

9:45 AM

It should be available for free.

Awesome, it sounds funny.

"The Five (ish) Doctors Reboot." Or on the BBC.

1 hour later…

10:51 AM

1

Q: When did the Cloister war happened and what happened during that war?

in Doctor who series 9 the "Cloister war" was mentioned a few times (Missy - series 9 episode 1, the Doctor series 9 episode 12). When did this war happen? Was it on a big scale and who were involved besides the Daleks, cybermen and weeping angels? What were the motives to attack the cloisters o...

doctor-who tv gallifrey

2 hours later…

12:26 PM

One of the great things about Doctor Who is that it feels like I never run out of wacky new things to discover.

Doctor Who Comedy Sketch - The Web Of Caves

7 hours later…

SS-3.1415926535897932384626433

7:40 PM

@DrRDizzle That's famous, but I didn't know that her last name before marriage was Moffett.. Haha...

Why is Brotherhood of Karn not immortal?

8:30 PM

@DrRDizzle I also thought of Listen while watching Hell Bent, mostly because that barn-like structure he spends the early part of Hell Bent in looks suspiciously similar to the one from the end of Listen

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Transcript for

Dec '159

Time and Relative Dimensions in Spoilers

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