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12:30 AM
@Gilles: I'm confused. You rewrote my answer -- whereas yours was interesting -- just with a nice drawing? We could have managed a discussion if mine was not clear, don't you think?
 
3
Q: Creating a Self Ordering Binary Tree using AVL logic

OghmaOsirisI have an assignment where I need to make use a binary search tree and alter it to self order itself such that items that are accessed the most (have a higher priority) are at the top of the tree, the root being the most accessed node. The professor gave me the BST and node struct to work with, ...

 
@jmad uh?
I rewrote my answer after Dave changed the question (with my benediction)
 
@Gilles maybe this is not clear that this is the same example
 
@jmad No, I can see you used the same example
 
36
Q: Is there a Stack Overflow like site for computer science?

kunjaanAre there any sites like Stack Overflow where we can ask computer science and more theoretical questions? What do you guys/gals use other than this site? EDIT: Even though I really didn't get satisfactory answers, I am closing the bounty. I have been using comp.lang.* and the guys there have be...

 
12:35 AM
it's not surprising, this is the classical example
 
23
Q: Where on SE to discuss computer science

GillesWhat is the right site on the Stack Exchange network for computer science questions? None of the answers I can think of are remotely satisfying: Stack Overflow: Even if CS questions are acceptable (some get closed, which I think shows they're not getting the right audience), where is the exper...

questions with outdated information
 
@KenLi edit away!
 
Probably but I did find the example and the relations (same order) myself, so this surprised me quite a bit.. Also, I thought I covered the problem.
 
@jmad well done then
I'm pretty sure I was taught this example
 
Not surprised either, now, but this was .. well, a bit frustrating.
 
12:40 AM
@jmad ? what was frustrating?
@KenLi I've edited. There are several questions on Mathematics Meta as well
 
Doing the exercise, posting the answer with detailed relations and explanations, to find hours later my answer rewritten (I thought). But yes, this is a classical example.
@Gilles so this does not matter, sorry for the disturbance.
 
Hmmm, is there an example with 3 states?
Yes: $\{p,q,r\}$ with $p \stackrel{a}{\rightarrow} q$ and $r$ doing nothing, and $\{p',q'\}$ with $p' \stackrel{a}{\rightarrow} q'$
but it's not very interesting, unlike the 4-state example
 
@KenLi I suspect he meant edit the answers to include updated information (or post a new one), not editing the question to add an "out of date" banner
 
ah
 
Fortunately both questions already had answers that mentioned the proposal, so it looks like he just edited them to link straight to the site instead
 
12:49 AM
@MichaelMrozek edit what?
 
@MichaelMrozek I edited Raphel's answer in both
I don't know what to do with meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/26889/…, both the asker and the top answerer have vanished, but I hesitate to edit the top answer
 
@Gilles are you sure these are states? It seems like b+0 and b which are bisimilar.
 
@MichaelMrozek although one could argue that by editing the question, you save the potential reader of reading the entire debate only to realize that it's a pointless one
 
@KenLi Nah, people will still have that question who don't realize there's a CS site; it happens all the time with other sites
 
12:53 AM
@jmad ah, yes, I forgot that part
 
1:27 AM
0
Q: Why has research on genetic algorithms slowed?

PetroEkosWhile discussing some intro level topics today, including the use of genetic algorithms; I was told that research has really slowed in this field. The reason given was that most people are focusing on machine learning and data mining. Is this accurate, and if so why is there this trend towards th...

 
 
2 hours later…
3:16 AM
1
Q: BigO, Running Time, Invariants - Learning Resources

User1What are some good online resources that will help me better understand BigO notation, running time & invariants? I'm looking for lectures, interactive examples if possible.

0
Q: Generating uniformly distributed random numbers using a coin

Pratik DeoghareYou have 1 coin. You may flip it as many times as you want. You want to generate random number r such that $a \leq r \leq b$ where r,a,b $\in \mathbb{Z}^+$. Distribution of the numbers should be uniform. Its easy if $b -a = 2^n$. r = a + binary2dec(flip n times write 0 for heads and 1 for...

 
3:42 AM
0
Q: "resource-request" tag?

Ran G.should questions like BigO, Running Time, Invariants - Learning Resources be tagged with resource-request ? This might apply also to many of the big-list questions.

 
0
Q: Expressing an arbitrary permutation as a sequence of (insert, move, delete) operations

GeoffSuppose I have two strings. Call them A and B. Neither string has any repeated characters. How can I find the shortest sequence of insert, move, and delete operation that turns A into B, where: insert(char, offset) inserts char at the given offset in the string move(from_offset, to_offset) mov...

 
4:36 AM
0
Q: Ideas for promoting the site

KavehNow that the site is accessible publicly we should try to promote it. This post is for discussing ideas about promotion. How can we promote the site further?

0
Q: 7 essential meta questions: FAQ

KavehThe list is as follows: Are questions about [subject] on or off topic? What should our FAQ contain? How should we tag questions about {subject}? What’s the “elevator pitch” for our site? What should our logo and site design look like? Who should the moderators be? How do we promote our site? ...

 
5:07 AM
0
Q: What is the complexity of these tree-based algorithms?

DangSuppose we have a balanced binary tree, which represents a recursive partitioning of a set of $N$ points into nested subsets. Each node of the tree represents a subset, with the following properties: subsets represented by two children nodes of the same parent are disjoint, and their union is eq...

 
5:29 AM
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3732423 (some interesting discussion going on)
 
1
Q: What combination of data structures efficiently stores discrete Bayesian networks?

ashI understand the theory behind Bayesian networks, and am wondering what it takes to build one in practice. Let's say for this example, that I have a Bayesian (directed) network of 100 discrete random variables; each variable can take one of up to 10 values. Do I store all the nodes in a DAG, and...

 
6:03 AM
0
Q: Intuition into log n complexity

KhanzorI believe I have a reasonable grasp of complexities like O(1), O(n) and O(n2). In terms of a list, O(1) is a constant lookup, so it's just getting the head of the list. O(n) is where I'd walk the entire list, and O(n2) is walking the list once for each element in the list. Is there a similar in...

 
6:27 AM
@Gilles Where does my profile claim I was in Canada? O.o
 
6:43 AM
cs.stackexchange.com/questions/581/… I answered based on my mathematical intuition, I'm not sure how I can prove this unfortunately
 
@KenLi it looks correct. you just play with the logarithm base
if you devide by 3 each time, you'll be O(log_3 n)
which is basically O(log n), for any "log" definition (i.e., base)
 
6:59 AM
I see
 
uli
7:14 AM
from 200+ to 400+ users in one night :D
 
well considering it's on front page of hackernews
and we got 90+ followers after the private beta launch
 
uli
@KenLi If it is not an early april’s fools joke, hackernews.com is closed
 
uli
ah there is more than one
 
that is the first google result for hackernews
 
uli
7:20 AM
not in my filter bubble :D
 
2
Q: Could quantum computing eventually be used to make modern day hashing trivial to break?

nicatronTgSimply put, if one were to build a quantum computing device with the power of, say, 20 qubits, could the processing power by said computer be used to make any kind of modern hashing algorithm useless? Would it even be possible to harness the power of quantum computing in a traditional computing...

0
Q: Can every linear grammar be converted to Greibach form?

GigiliCan every linear grammar be converted to a form in which all productions look like $A \rightarrow ax$ where $a \in T$ and $x \in V \cup \{\lambda\}$?

 
 
2 hours later…
9:00 AM
yay we got our first really badly formatted question
I suspect we will only get more of those as time goes on
guess we can't expect the question quality to be good as it was during private beta
 
9:15 AM
0
Q: 1. Count comma separated values in a single cell

Naziya Shaikhwe r created collage database in which we have attendance table the colomn in this tables are subj id,present no,absent no,date,time etc in colomn present no and absent no we put the roll nos seprated by comma like in present no colomn 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and so on and we want result like from date 2 t...

 
 
1 hour later…
10:40 AM
1
Q: CPU frequency per year

peoroI know that since ~2004, Moore's law stopped working for CPU clock speed. I'm looking for a graph showing this, but am unable to find it: most charts out there show the transistor count or the capacity per year. Where can I find some data showing the CPU frequency of computers (anything is fine,...

 
 
1 hour later…
12:01 PM
1
Q: Good uses of computer viruses

Pratik DeoghareMy company has a software and I want people to install crucial upgrades. Because there is a bug which can be exploited by hackers crackers or virus writers. And within hours everything will be compromised. I can host upgrades on a server send out notifications let people download and install t...

 
12:26 PM
Is the latest question about virusses on topic? I don't think it is
I don't see the link to science
 
@AlextenBrink Me neither
 
well I voted for close
it's a textbook case of off-topic-ness IMO
 
So did I
It's time we get a proper FAQ, let's see if I can compose something nice
 
3
Q: 7 essential meta questions: FAQ

KavehThe list is as follows: Are questions about [subject] on or off topic? What should our FAQ contain? How should we tag questions about {subject}? What’s the “elevator pitch” for our site? What should our logo and site design look like? Who should the moderators be? How do we promote our site? ...

 
I know some computer researchers who work on viruses, but from an abstract perspective. I kind of liked the question.
 
12:32 PM
@KenLi That's exactly what I had in mind
@DaveClarke My issue with the question is that it doesn't have a link with 'science' of any kind, it's only about a practical issue
 
I guess you can make the case that the question is related to computer security, which is part of applied CS
 
It does mean the question is good, as it forces us to specify our scope better :)
 
@AlextenBrink: Good point.
 
Which is in turn connected to getting a good FAQ
How would one specify 'science'? Can you characterize it as 'having a theoretical framework'?
Or is that too narrow?
 
how far do we want to go into the applied topics
 
12:36 PM
We certainly don't want to discourage applied topics. Otherwise this will just become CSTheory Jr, which is not what we want.
Plenty of people are doing systems-building style computer science research. Does anyone know how they would describe what they do as science? We don't want to exclude such people, at least when they are asking questions about the science aspects of what they do.
 
But on the other hand, we don't want to define 'applied' as too broad, or SO would become a subset of our site
 
SO is about the codes.
Not the science.
 
So we need to find the middle ground - I fully agree with your point that we shouldn't exclude applied topics
 
On another note: do you like cs.stackexchange.com/questions/569/… ? I don't, but I can not nail the reason.
Regarding the ongoing discussion, I think whatever wants to be ontopic should either refer to "standard material" or include some level of abstraction and/or generalisation.
 
@Raphael One all-encompassing discussion about scope at a time please ;)
However, "Are there any other good uses of viruses?" is pretty general, so you'll have to watch out there
 
12:42 PM
i'd say if it's about implementation of viruses, it's less off-topic, this question seems to be about ethics
 
I like the philosophical nature of the "good uses of viruses" question.
Scientists (and philosophers) have time to sit around and debate such questions.
 
I think the question is more suited for Programmers
 
@AlextenBrink sorry :>
 
it's very subjective i'd say
actually
do we need any subjective question on the site at all?
 
I don't really see that it's subjective, I'm afraid. The more I think about the question, the more I like about it. But I'm supposed to be preparing for a lecture, not chatting ...
 
12:51 PM
the questioner is not very clear about his motives
it is fine to discuss ethics of certain behaviour
hereabouts, for instance, using port scanners was illegalised some time ago. How do I check wether my system is secure?
however, I think it is less a matter of computer science but more so of sysadmins.
therefore, I think the question at hand should be on serverfault.SE
 
I didn't see that it was about ethics.
 
@PratikDeoghare pinging him here
 
if it is not about ethics but only about "how to employ a software type in practice", then it is offtopic
 
Hello
 
12:54 PM
@PratikDeoghare hi
 
@PratikDeoghare Your question is awesome, as we have no agreement on whether it is on topic or not :)
 
I think the quality of your question is quite good BTW
And explaining my comment: your question is certainly about computers, I'm just pondering whether it's about computer science
 
Thanks @AlextenBrink! :D
 
1
Q: Measuring one way network latency

StrilancThis is a puzzle about measuring network latency that I created. I believe the solution is that it's impossible, but friends disagree. I'm looking for convincing explanations either way. (Though it is posed as a puzzle I think it fits on this web site because of its applicability to the design an...

 
12:58 PM
It certainly is. Check out the links.
 
Wow, yes, it does certainly look like it
I had no idea there was this much theory behind virusses :P
 
Pinging @JohnPercivalHackworth who made a comment on the question
 
@JohnPercivalHackworth Its not ethics/IT question. I just phrased it that way to demo potential application.
 
I'm pretty sure the second alternative you pose in your question is illegal, isn't it?
 
1:05 PM
windows uses it! ;)
 
Wow, cs.stackexchange.com/questions/581/… undercuts what I thought would be basic questions by some orders of magnitude.
 
I expect to get questions even more basic than that actually
 
@PratikDeoghare There is research about viruses; that does not mean your question is a scientific one per se. There is theory about programming languages, but a programming question is not scientific.
 
What Raphael said - your first alternative you pose is a user interaction issue, the second a legal issue and the question you end with seems like an IT question to me
 
@ComputerScience @Gilles: this is very similar to your problem.
 
1:11 PM
@Raphael @Alex I am sorry it got interpreted that way. First is common practice, second is attempt to ridicule windows and third is attempt to show how viruses could help. I must learn to write well.
 
@PratikDeoghare We all do. :)
You can edit as often as you want.
one of the many advantages of SE over newsgroups
 
Regarding the scope of our site, how about this: "questions to which the answers have a theoretical framework" - it's not a good criterion for the questioners (who don't know the answers), so we may need an equivalent criterion for that, but at least I think it captures the scope
Or maybe even 'theoretic or scientific framework', to not exclude the question about Moore's law earlier
 
vxheavens.com/lib/mwg02.html could be used to model spread of swine flu. It would be one good use of theory of computer viruses.
can I go now?
 
Ofc :)
 
1:27 PM
:D bye bye. I'll try to edit and make that question better
 
bye, good luck!
 
not really an off-topic question per sa
 
no, I just think it is not very good
the OP should be able to google for related material easily
 
The advantage of asking it here is that there's a better chance you get good sources of information, instead of just any source of information
 
correct
wow, dealing with flags is hard O.o
the question I just mentioned was flagged as "not constructive"
how do I format spoilers? search
never mind
any other thoughts?
should we ask the OP to focus his question moree?
it does touch three (arguably) unrelated areas
by the way, I stumbled over more than one question with poor formatting, in particular math. You are all invited to help polishing such posts!
 
2:25 PM
He's essentially asking three different questions, but all these topics are usually treated in a single course
 
true enough
I don't know; I don't think asking for a basic CS course is a good question for SE. It is a fair question, it is just not suited for the platform. It is either unanswerable or a "list question".
 
Yup, agreed - not sure what the stance on list questions is though
 
we have not agreed on meta
you have not been to meta, have you?
 
A few times, but I'm not very active there no
I'm torn between spending more time on this site and spending time on homework and other things that need doing :S
 
you should! basically, only Kaveh's, Gilles' and my opinion end up there. Not very useful.
 
3:14 PM
@Gilles I don't understand your retagging for cs.stackexchange.com/q/570/157. "probability-theory" is a field of math, not CS. The question is about algorithm that deals with randomness - i think "randomized algorithms" is more proper. Also, generally the "randomness" tag is more adequate than "random" to algorithm that utilize randomness and random-number-generators (which could be a proper tag for this case as well).
 
@RanG Agreed to part one. Regarding tags, I think we can have and .
But then, this question really is a probability theory one
it should be on math.SE
I don't like , either.
 
@Raphael Why?? it can be slightly edited to say "what's the best lgorithm for".. and analyze its complexity
 
@RanG I phrased that badle. I am completely fine with the question on cs.SE as it is natural to have in the context of CS. But underneath, it is a math question.
 
there was great reaserch during the 70's to deal exactly with those kind of questions of how much randomness is needed for various tasks
 
In particular, rejection sampling is proven to be correct in math lectures, less often (never?) so in CS lectures.
 
3:19 PM
@Raphael Oh, I agree then (:
 
@RanG That is not the question here. The question is "How do I get a x-distributed r.v. X if I have i.i.d y-distributed ones?" -- typical stochastics question
 
@Raphael It's in the eyes of the beholder (: I mean, it can be changes to fit the CS audience better.. this is why we have an "edit" button, right?
anyways, time to start the day.. see you later.
 
@RanG right.
@RanG Ach, which time zone are you in?
I see, about -9 from here.
 
4:11 PM
1
Q: Late and Early Bisimulation

Dave ClarkeThis is a follow up to my earlier questions on coinduction and bisimulation. Recalling, a labelled transition system is a triple $(S,\Lambda,\to)$, where $S$ is a set of states, $\Lambda$ is a set of labels, and $\to\subseteq S\times\Lambda\times S$ is a ternary relation., where $(p,\alpha,q)\in...

0
Q: euler depth first search algorithm

d0peHow to improve the worst case scenario for a depth first search on an euler graph, starting at some point and ending at that same point. I need to do the whole search but it ain't fast enough for large amounts of data, I've tried bidirectional but I can't really keep the result numericly ordere...

0
Q: How can I decide whether two CTL formulas are equivalent?

bitmaskAssume I have two formulae $\Phi$ and $\Psi$ (over the same set of atomic propositions $AP$) in CTL. We have that $\Phi \equiv \Psi$ iff $Sat_{TS}(\Phi) = Sat_{TS}(\Psi)$ for all transition systems $TS$ over $AP$. Given that there are infinitely many transition systems, it's impossible to check ...

 
Are you there @Raphael
?
 
@Jetti yes
Hi!
 
Howdy! How are you?
 
Quite well, thanks. You?
 
That's good. I'm doing pretty well myself
 
4:16 PM
Glad to hear that.
So, you want to talk about my comment over there?
 
yep :)
 
what is puzzling you?
btw, what is your background? have you (formally) studied CS?
 
My background is Economics
currently in a Masters for CS though
I think that your comment would be true for Theortical Computer Science (cstheory.stackexchange.com)
*theoretical
 
A common misconception, imho. While there are people in CS who deal with specific instances of some concepts (e.g. a certain programming language or database), most of the time that is to try out stuff or create proof-of-concept implementations.
The majority busies themselved with finding general problems and solutions.
(I am only a Master student myself, so take that with a grain of salt)
there are regional differences, though. Afaik, CS in Scandinavia and even US is far more applied than e.g. in Germany or France. And don't even mention India.
 
I think it also depends on the area you are studying too
 
4:23 PM
true. Software Engineers are more likely to be close to specific technology than others
 
I would imagine Parallel Algorithmics is going to be way more theoretical than database systems
 
depends
 
Databases has lots of normal form stuff, that's quite theoretical
 
Trie
*true
 
anyway, a question "How do I write a virus that exploits Windows 7 vulnerability X?" is certainly off-topic here. "What are common weaknesses of operating systems?" may be ok. The question we are talking about is in a grey area. See also the ensuing discussion above (here in chat).
 
4:25 PM
We had a big discussion about it a few hours ago, and it hasn't really been resolved yet
 
It seems open ended and vague the more I re-read it
 
The discussion or the question?
 
question
 
yea
it is not quite off-topic and not quite good
 
What are all of your CS interests?
 
4:38 PM
This question may end up not being on topic:
0
Q: Improve worst case time of depth first search on euler graphs

d0peHow to improve the worst case scenario for a depth first search on an euler graph, starting at some point and ending at that same point? I need to do the whole search but it is not fast enough for large amounts of data. I have tried bidirectional search but I can not keep the result numerically ...

The standard algorithm runs in linear time, so he has to deal with constant factors, and that means we'll have to see his code, at which point the question may be better suited for SO?
@Jetti I'm mainly interested in parsing
 
@AlextenBrink ya parsing is an interesting topic
 
@AlextenBrink More precise analysis than O(n) is ontopic. At this point, the question is very unclear.
@Jetti You mean us personally?
 
@Raphael yes I do. I apologize for the confusing wording
 
@Raphael I was assuming he was simply doing something inefficiently somewhere, but I see ways in which the question may turn out to be interesting
 
@AlextenBrink Besides, how is it linear time? In the worst case, he has to try all paths trough the graph, which is exponential.
 
4:48 PM
Yes, I didn't realize the order restriction can make a huge difference
 
@Jetti I have fun with algorithms and data structures. In the past, I have been looking into some aspects of TCS applied to bioinformatics, but now I am mostly interested in parallel algorithms.
 
@Raphael very cool. Interesting stuff
 
@Jetti indeed
What are you doing resp what are you interested in?
 
My interests are programming language theory as well as compilers
 
sweet
I should have figured, given your avatar
 
4:52 PM
:)
On that note, I'm heading to lunch. It was a pleasure chatting with you both
 
I also like programming languages and compilers as well, but I'm interested in the more practical aspects, so not so much type theory for me
Have a nice lunch, 't was a pleasure :)
 
@Jetti Good munching, see you!
 
On a side note, the solution for this question (cs.stackexchange.com/questions/555/…) turned out to be quite a bit more involved than I originally thought
 
Ah, now I understood it. :D
don't thing is really appropriate, but whatever
I have not read your answer in detail
 
Maybe he's building some kind of next-token predictor or something, to help you code
I can imagine :P
 
5:02 PM
spent the whole morning at the doctors, so not much time today
or he wants to improve error messages
 
5:44 PM
bye!
 
6:29 PM
2
Q: Where in the Chomsky hierarchy does this language fit?

justausrI was given the question Where does the following language fit in the Chomsky hierarchy? Nonnegative solutions (x,y) to the diophantine equation $3x-y=1$. I understand languages like $L = \{ 0^n1^n \mid n \ge 1\}$, but this language confuses me. What do the words in the language look ...

1
Q: How can I prove this language is not context-free?

justausrI have the following language I am trying to determine which chomsky language class it fits into. I can see how it could be made using a context-sensitive grammar so I know it is atleast context-sensitive. It seems like it wouldn't be possible to make with a context-free grammar, but I'm havin...

 
 
1 hour later…
7:53 PM
0
Q: Unipathic Graph Problem

gprimeA directed graph is said to be unipathic if for any two vertices $u$ and $v$ in the graph $G$, there is at most one simple path from $u$ to $v$. Suppose I am given a unipathic graph $G$ such that each edge has a positive or negative weight, but contains no negative weight cycles. From this I w...

 
Hi everyone! Was wondering if anyone wanted to help me out on my homework problem that was similar to the one I posted here yesterday. I posted a code specific problem on SO, but I'm getting a negative response to the question. Any help is appreciated as I'm really confused!
-1
Q: Why does the root never change and why am I getting a bad access error?

OghmaOsirisI'm working on an assignment to create a Self Ordering Binary Search Tree what re-organizes itself every time a duplicate element tries to be inserted into the tree. I'm having a few errors that I need help solving. First, the root of the tree never changes (which i'm assuming the problem is in ...

 
8:11 PM
typical C++ tag regular downvoters
i upvoted just because it was downvoted lol
C++ regulars on SO are very trigger happy with their downvote button, fortunately this isn't happening on CS.SE
 
2
Q: Question on Turing Machine Decidablity on Two Finite Languages

BrotherJack[Note this is a question related to study in a CS course at a university, it is NOT homework and can be found here under Fall 2011 exam2: http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~dmarino/ucf/transparency/cot4210/exam/ ] Here are the two questions I'm looking at from a past exam. They seem to be related, the firs...

 
@OghmaOsiris And it got a close vote for "too localized."
 
Personally I don't think that "Please debug my code" is a good question. It's already annoying enough if you have to debug your own code. Nobody is going to feel motivated to debug somebody else's code unless it's very small and the error is easy to see. It's way too much effort (especially since understanding other people's code is already hard enough to begin with) for too little pay-off.
 
8:29 PM
@kevin too localized to what? It's a very familiar CS algorithm...
 
I think the idea is that it's too localized to your code. Any answer to your question won't help anyone else who might have troubles with the same algorithm because his mistake will be different.
 
@sepp2k but I thought that SO was created to help solve everyday programming problems... The site was made for debugging code...
 
I think SO is more meant for "How do I..." questions (which also qualify as everyday programming problems). I think it's a pretty common opinion among most regulars that a good question is one whose answers will be helpful to more people than just the OP.
Most of the site's design decisions (like for example not allowing users to delete their questions if it has upvoted answers) are built around that idea.
 
@OghmaOsiris Probably, like sepp2k said, it's "debug my code." I didn't vtc, just letting you know.
 
So, I'm just SOL when trying to get help with my code on SE?
@kevin, I'm not trying to get them to just fix it for me, I want to understand why it's not workingso I can avoid the problem in the future.
 
8:37 PM
I think you vastly underestimate how hard it is for other people to look at your code and see where the error is.
Debugging is the hardest part of programming.
 
When I try give parts of the program that I think are the only relevant part of the problem, I only get comments that say, " I refuse to help unless you give the entirety of your code..." but, when I give all the code, people tell me that it's too much lol...
 
Usually code samples are supposed to be "minimal, but complete".
 
And I only needed help with 2 methods, which I knew something's wrong in there. Which I mentioned in the question.
 
9:14 PM
@RanG I didn't introduce , I don't feel strongly about it. The question is not about a randomized algorithm, so I removed that tag, it does not apply. We might not want (the Stack Overflow name) but (the Cryptography name) or (the Theoretical Computer Science name)
 
9:40 PM
Hm, the (very) easy questions tend to get the most votes, apparently. :-/
 
@Raphael Happens on all sites.
 
@Raphael welcome to Stack Exchange
maybe CSTheory is a bit different, because of its highly unusual audience
Note that simple questions are not always easy to answer!
 
@Gilles "Only" because it is harder to explain simpler things to people with less intuition and prior knowledge, but yea.
Not judging; I just feel with the harder questions and their authors
 
Ell
hi guys
 
hey
 
9:44 PM
hi
 
Ell
C++'s template language is turing complete, does that mean i can write any programme that can be written in c++?
because c++ is turing complete
 
@Ell yes, it does
 
Ell
So I could theoretically write a game in c++ template programming?
 
@Ell welcome to CS.SE btw
 
as long as you're only concerned with doing computation on things like integers, and aren't concerned with things like I/O
 
9:46 PM
in theory yes
 
Ell
@KenLi thank you :)
howcome I can't do I/O? is that outside of the scope of a turing machine?
 
@Ell yes, but I guess not an interactive game.
 
@Ell you could, but you couldn't make it display graphics or react in real time, because the template language has no primitives for that
 
Ell
@Gilles see thats why I don't understand how you can call it turing complete? because you can't write any programme in it?
Sorry for being a noob btw :P
 
What you could do is make the template generate instructions that another very simple program would execute, say, to display graphics
@Ell you can write programs, but you're constrained over what the programs can use for inputs and outputs
 
9:49 PM
@Ell turing complete only means that you can write all programs that read a file and then write a file.
 
Turing-complete basically means that there's some way to use a string or a number (of arbitrary size) as input, and some way to produce a string or a number (of arbitrary size) as output
 
Yes, that.
 
@Ell Turing completeness is only about what's computable, not about what kinds of user interaction (or other IO) you can perform. Turing machines have no concept of IO.
 
Ell
Ahh okay, so it basically only operates on a big continuous block of memory?
Okay, thank you! that has cleared things up :)
 
it's fine as long as you're thinking of data manipulation, because all data can be encoded as a large string (e.g. a binary dump of your RAM)
 
9:50 PM
@jmad That's a bit imprecise. You can't read or write files in C++ metaprograms.
 
@sepp2k yes it is.
 
@Ell don't worry about asking a noob question here, there are even questions about De Morgan's law here
 
@KenLi what's a De Morgan's law?
(j/k)
 
Ell
@KenLi ha ha! yeah. aahh de morgan's law. Ha what a noob question!
 
lol
 
Ell
9:51 PM
Yeah what is demorgan's law? no joke :P I will google it first though
"The negation of a conjunction is the disjunction of the negations.
The negation of a disjunction is the conjunction of the negations." I still don't get it :P This stuff just goes over my head tbh
 
you know how in programming languages you can do
if ( !(A || B) )
 
Ell
yeah
 
you can convert it to if ( !A && !B )
and it's equivalent to the first statement
that's what it's trying to say
 
Ell
oh kk
 
Basically conjunction means "and" and disjunction means "or" (and negation means "not", but you probably realize that).
 
Ell
9:55 PM
Yeah I got negation, just not the others
 
it's discrete math terminology you would of known if you taken a course on it
 
Ell
I'm only at highschool level currently, but at 6th form I'm taking maths & further maths so hopefully that will crop up
I'm not sure if you are from the uk/us/whatever so if you arent familiar with 6th form, its ages 17 and 18 years old :)
 
ic
I'd highly recommend taking a look at discrete mathematics, it forms the foundations of CS
 
Ell
I have enrolled in Stanford's design & analysis of algorithms, but I have exams soon and there just isnt enough time!
Yeah I'm thinking of buying a book, I cant remember the exact name, something about the concrete maths for understanding computer science
 
Ell
9:59 PM
Yeah :) I thought it was something more than that though :L
but that will have to wait till summer. Have to pass these exams!
 
there was a video course on this earlier if I recall correctly
 
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