Good weekend, peeps! Is this book a good one? doi.org/10.1145/3335772

by any chance, does anyone have access to the pdf files?

@Tim yes, it’s very good

@StephenKitt How good is it?

I am excited and want to read it

@Tim what exactly do you want to know, beyond “very” like I just said?

It looks like a loose collection of different people's articles.

Not sure if it is a good educational book

But I guess it might be.

Is there other book also similarly good? (Maybe I can see if they have pdf files floating around)

@Tim no, it’s not an educational book; it’s a celebration of Lamport’s work, it puts it into context

I also wonder if the book reflects the state of art or just honors Lamport with history and outdated materials

@Tim I tend to like the idea of rewarding the people who work on stuff we like by paying for the things we use, when that’s expected

I don't have $$$

Speaking of which, Aaron Swartz was recently memorized

I like organized book which is good for learning.

@Tim if you want to learn about practical concurrency, I found Java Concurrency in Practice very good (both for theory and practice), and I like mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/paulmck/… too (which is free)

Is Java Concurrency in Practice about programming models or concurrency models?

Is Lamport's work about distributed algorithms?

Are they related?

@Tim it’s about programming with the Java concurrency model, but a lot of the ways of thinking involved there are universally applicable

@Tim Lamport’s work is about distributed systems, particularly event sequencing, record-keeping, and resilience (against failure and adversaries)

Have both Kubernetes and Zookeeper implemented distributed algorithms?

Such as those for achieving consensus?

What differences are between them in terms of that? (It seems that some use both together in some way)

@Tim what have you found in your own research into the topic?

Found some random uncomprensible discussions on the Internet.

I will have to find something to eat. ( I just drank >2L water empty stomach). BBL

@Tim it’s worth looking at projects’ documentation

Zookeeper: zookeeper.apache.org/doc/r3.6.2/zookeeperInternals.html

Kubernetes: pkg.go.dev/k8s.io/client-go/tools/leaderelection

@StephenKitt Do K and Z implement distributed algorithms for different levels of purposes?

Is Z for providing application level services, and is K for a lower level services and unaware of application level services?

@Tim do Kubernetes and ZooKeeper serve the same purposes?

I don't know

Do you use them? What do you use?

I’ve said this before, but it’s worth saying again: there’s very little point in trying to learn something computer-related if you’re not going to use it in the very near future. If you’re not using Kubernetes or ZooKeeper, and if you don’t have a specific academic interest in distributed algorithm implementations, learning what distributed algorithms they implement serves very little purpose.

I am not good at playing charade. Appreciate any enlightenment

Could you share your understanding about the two?

OK, I’ll play along. Do you use Kubernetes? Do you use ZooKeeper?

I vaguely know what they are for, but can't articulate

@Tim that’s not what I asked.

and am sure I miss a lot

but am interested

Do you plan to?

Sometime

What for?

If one doesn't know about Z or K, what company would hire them?

If one doesn't know about distributed algorithms, how do they know about Z or K and their differences and relation?

Lots of companies hire people who don’t know anything about Kubernetes or ZooKeeper.

The first step to understanding the differences between Kubernetes and ZooKeeper is knowing what they are intended for, not how they are implemented.

Can you share your understanding?

You have to understand that Kubernetes and ZooKeeper are both insanely complex systems. If you don’t have extensive knowledge of the concepts they use, and you don’t actually use them in practice, you have no hope of understanding them in any meaningful way.

Just pretend that I will

You’re asking me to educate you, but you haven’t yet demonstrated any actual willingness to educate yourself. If you can’t give even the beginning of an answer to questions regarding their purposes, I’m afraid I’m not interested in helping you.

:(

I understand both of your points but have no reconciliation to offer between them.

I'd have to side with Stephen on this though. There is plenty of free information on Z & K and even in the few minutes since entering this chat I've read about both. He even offered you alternative sources, one of which is free. Even the documentation. To keep asking is near trolling.

Pantry opens in 15 mins. See you!

@ionizing I understand you want to sound like an expert, and you really don't know the topics which he and I were talking about

If I can be more critical, Stephen also seemed to mix up different things at some point.

Tim, I'm never quite sure if you mean things the way you say them, but in any case this message is quite something:

Meanwhile, I am trying to finish browsing a graph theory book, which I started two weeks ago, actually years ago but I forgot most.

faculty.math.illinois.edu/~west/igt

I dont know why I am reading it, just one thing led to another

Guess might be helpful for software engineering interviews

The book is highly praised, but I have to spend a great deal of efforts to piece things together that are scattered around.

I suspect there might be better books. So I am open to other choices.

@Tim doubt it

That being said, it is one of the things that I feel ashamed to admit that I have ever studied.

That guilt is probably another reason why I am reading it again.