/dev/chat

Paṇḍyā

3:49 AM

fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns

:(

JohnnyApplesauce

4:02 AM

Is it acceptable to post a request for an answer here? If so, unix.stackexchange.com/questions/542098/…

Faheem Mitha

6:11 AM

@Paṇḍyā Do you know what the context is, if any?

Michael Homer

@FaheemMitha He's a jerk and a liability

Faheem Mitha

Something to do with Epstein? Weird.

@MichaelHomer Um. Ok.

Faheem Mitha

6:24 AM

I was just recently reading a statement by MIT's president about the Epstein thing. He seemed oddly concerned about it.

@JohnnyApplesauce There's no policy about it. But people on the site will see your question. And there are only a small number of people here, anyway.

Open Source and Academia are having mod elections simultaneously.

@JohnnyApplesauce Debian has an accessibility section, or whatever it's called.

Probably other distributions do too. But I don't know what kind of shape those things are in.

Doing a search for "debian accessibility" brings up some hits.

E.g. wiki.debian.org/accessibility and debian.org/devel/debian-accessibility

Would that be a suitable answer?

Faheem Mitha

7:22 AM

I posted an answer.

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby or use emojis in your passwords ;-) (and break websites)

Faheem Mitha

8:13 AM

How easy is making a PR on GitHub? I've never done it.

Stephen Kitt

8:30 AM

@FaheemMitha fork the repo, clone it, make your changes, commit them, push, git will give you a URL, open that and click the big button to open a PR

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt So,... easy? Yes/No?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha that’s subjective. I find it easy.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Ok. There's a typo in the PGF manual. I'm not sure if I can be bothered, but I'll see. It's easier on SE.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha if it’s just a typo you should be able to edit directly on the GitHub web page.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt No, it's the manual. A large PDF.

Presumably generated from LaTeX, seeing that PGF is a LaTeX package.

Stephen Kitt

8:41 AM

@FaheemMitha right, and I was assuming you were referring to a change you wanted to make in the manual’s source

Faheem Mitha

The maintainer hangs out on the TeX SE chat room from time to time. I pinged him, but he didn't respond.

@StephenKitt Correct.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha so if you find the source file in GitHub, you should be able to edit it directly.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Really? I didn't think that was possible. Ok, I'll try.

So, not a PR?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha a PR will be created for you.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh. I see. So a convenience thing.

@StephenKitt Apropos of nothing, did you know Frans Pop, Debian developer?

Stephen Kitt

8:45 AM

@FaheemMitha no, he died before I got around to going to conferences and meeting people in the community, and I never ran into him in other circles

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I see.

@StephenKitt The maintainer just pinged me on TeX SE Chat. He fixed the typo.

The typo was "principle" when it should have been "principal".

Faheem Mitha

12:35 PM

Seen in a Reddit thread - xkcd.com/686

Doesn't work so well with the British Z pronunciation.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha reminds me of roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a28918/…

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Do video games actually do that? Never having played one, I wouldn't know.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha why would the story mention it if they didn’t?

But yes, it’s quite common for time trials in racing games to show the best time as a ghost car driving round the circuit.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt People occasionally say stuff that isn't true?

@StephenKitt I see. Never heard of this before.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yes, but it’s rather cynical to assume that a story is false, or perhaps it’s the new normal in a world saturated with fake news...

Faheem Mitha

12:42 PM

@StephenKitt Oh, no. Not that word.

I'm not assuming anything. I just asked.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha OK, sorry for assuming you were assuming!

Faheem Mitha

No problem. And no need to apologise.

In case you were wondering, the word is "fake".

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yeah, I thought that was what you were referring to...

Faheem Mitha

BTW, unfortunate business with Stallman. But perhaps he was ready to retire anyway.

He must get tired of being constantly vilified. And the world, and the internet, isn't becoming a more civilized place.

Nice way to say thanks, I must say.

Puzzling about the Software Freedom Conservancy, though. I though those people were close to him. Kuhn, for example.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha thanks for what? Of course his work creating the free software movement is worthy of thanks, but his predatory behaviour isn’t IMO.

Faheem Mitha

12:48 PM

@StephenKitt Predatory behavior? What predatory behavior?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha ask pretty much any woman who’s met him...

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I don't know any of them. Do you?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yes.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh.

Stephen Kitt

He also resigned from MIT: stallman.org/archives/…

Faheem Mitha

1:02 PM

Yes, I know.

qubert

2:08 PM

@StephenKitt name names and bring non-hearsay evidence when bringing such grave accusations on a public forum. The current climate may make you feel free and safe to write no matter what against people you don't like, but you're not.

Faheem Mitha

2:43 PM

@qubert That's unnecessarily confrontational. This is a chat room, not a court of law. And Stephen is a good person, and entitled to his opinions.

Hi, btw. I don't think we've "met" before.

Things to ponder - why does the Debian swirl go counter-clockwise?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha it’s Buzz Lightyear’s chin swirl

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Thanks for clarifying that.

Perhaps it should go the other way in the Southern Hemisphere?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha to be fair that’s apocryphal, I’m not sure there’s an official explanation

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Ah

Kusalananda

@StephenKitt I remember when they had the competition for that logo. It was at a time when swirls were very "in". I seem to remember people comparing it to the Transmeta Crusoe swirl.

Not that they look the same, but I think Linus was at Transmeta at the time.

Stephen Kitt

2:54 PM

@Kusalananda indeed; it’s also a brush in Photoshop so the explanation might be much more prosaic than the Toy Story inspiration

@Kusalananda yes, 1997-2003

Faheem Mitha

How old is it? I can't remember a time when it wasn't there.

Stephen Kitt

But the resemblance is striking: toystory.disney.com/…

@FaheemMitha 1999

Kusalananda

:-)

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh. That late?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yup: debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0004

Faheem Mitha

2:59 PM

What did the Project use before?

Stephen Kitt

Faheem Mitha

Huh. I've never seen that before.

Why did they discontinue it?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1999/02/msg00020.html

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt That was fast.

Stephen Kitt

> The winner will be awarded an email-address at debian.org, a CD-set
with Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 for the architectures of his/her choice (alpha,
i386, m68k, or sparc) and ever-lasting fame for creating the one and only
Debian logo-set.

Who remembers the name of the logo’s creator? (Without looking it up...)

Faheem Mitha

3:06 PM

@StephenKitt I don't know about the lasting fame part.

I have no idea who designed it.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha exactly

derobert

@FaheemMitha I am vaguely under the impression that Sam Hartman (current DPL) is blind. Though that question could really use answers from someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about (e.g., either someone who is blind or who works with people who are)

Stephen Kitt

@derobert he is 100% blind; see raphaelhertzog.com/2011/06/24/… for an interview and a link to a presentation showing how he used to set his computer up

derobert

3:22 PM

Thanks. Although the link to the presentation is dead :-(

Internet Archive has it, though

Stephen Kitt

@derobert as do the DebConf archives: meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2009/debconf9/…

derobert

Yep. Wow that's a tiny resolution.

Faheem Mitha

3:47 PM

@StephenKitt So who did design it?

Oh, I did a search, and Raul Silva popped up.

Probably not the James Bond villain.

Faheem Mitha

4:01 PM

Maybe I should put a Debian button or sticker on my machine.

Once upon a time, it had a green lizard. Or was it a gecko?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha the SuSE chameleon?

derobert

Ugh. I was actually wring an answer to unix.stackexchange.com/questions/542270/… :-(

Debian's general policy is to only have one version of a software package in a release. So, absent exceptional circumstances, there would only be one version of OpenJDK. Buster has 11.

Details can be found in an [email to debian-java](https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2019/04/msg00036.html), but in short:

- OpenJDK 8 security support (already from third parties, e.g., Red Hat) ends before Buster's EOL. So sticking with

.... that's how far I got before Stack Exchange rudely told me my contribution isn't welcome :-(

(we really need better handling of question deletes when someone is trying to write an answer)

Faheem Mitha

4:16 PM

@StephenKitt Ah, yes. A chameleon. Thank you.

Stephen Kitt

@derobert and less angry question askers ;-)

derobert

@StephenKitt That'd help too.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Should I vote to undelete?

Stephen Kitt

I’ve voted to undelete the question, it is useful (although it could do with being edited).

derobert

@FaheemMitha Three undelete votes will probably bring it back to life

Faheem Mitha

4:21 PM

@derobert Is that a yes?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yes, if you vote the question will be restored

derobert

Well, I voted to undelete. So I recommend others do too.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Ok, done.

Kusalananda

Should I move the comments to a chat for that question?

It's quite a long thread

derobert

@Kusalananda I think those comments border on breaking the be nice policy (of course, so did the original wording of the question). I'm not sure if you want to move them to chat or just delete them...

Faheem Mitha

4:26 PM

I'd just leave them be, as long as there aren't more of them.

Kusalananda

I'll wait for your answer at least.

@FaheemMitha Yeah.

Faheem Mitha

Though they aren't exactly constructive comments.

derobert

@Kusalananda looks like @JeffSchaller got to it first and moved the whole thread to chat

Kusalananda

@derobert Ah. Ok.

Jeff Schaller

I didn't want to piecemeal the useful comments, so if there were any, someone please feel free to edit them into the Q

Kusalananda

4:30 PM

And peterh cleaned up the question somewhat.

derobert

Ok, I've posted my answer.

Kusalananda

@derobert The bit "there would only be one version of OpenJDK. Buster has 11" reads a bit funny. 11 what? Release 11, or 11 of them?

derobert

They just call it "Java 11" or "OpenJDK 11". I guess I could put "OpenJDK" in there.

Jeff Schaller

@Kusalananda or perhaps "Buster has version 11" ?

derobert

4:45 PM

@JeffSchaller "So, absent exceptional circumstances, there would only be one version of OpenJDK; buster has OpenJDK 11" is what I have now

Stephen Kitt

Ironically OpenJDK 11 currently has an EOL date in 2022, sooner than the OpenJDK 8 EOL in 2023.

derobert

5:00 PM

Hah, yeah, but that's only from Oracle (which has already EOL'd 8)

Quickly looking, for example, Amazon Corretto is until at least August 2024.

And RedHat until October 2024

Kusalananda

5:15 PM

@derobert Good.

overexchange

5:59 PM

-1

Q: TLS - How to assign public DNS name to AWS EC2?

AWS console shows public DNS name as ec2-99-xx-xx-xx.ca-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com for an EC2 innstance. But the same AWS EC2(by default) has $ hostname -f ip-172-xx-xx-xx.ca-central-1.compute.internal which is different from DNS name shown at AWS console. We need to submit CSR to c...

hostname -f is not same as public dns name shown in AWS console...

qubert

10:32 PM

@FaheemMitha No, that was not an opinion. An example of opinion would've been "good riddance of the old creep".

But Stephen Kitt wasn't expressing an opinion: he was implying as a fact that he knows of RMS' predatory behavior directly from his victims, which had opened up to him about their predicament.

@FaheemMitha I don't monitor /dev/chat; I was pointed at that message as a punishment for having once (naively) expressed a positive opinion of Stephen Kitt.

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