/dev/chat

Adam

12:00 AM

well yes and no not much beats the onion for me to be honest

on why i am not a news reporter im assuming

ONN's Autistic Reporter II

►

i mean yes they make fun of everything, so you need to take it in that context when feeling personally attacked

Adam

3:03 AM

>compgen -j

what does that do?

if you want the help for compgen -j rather than the compgen --help which just tells you about the various options after one stroke that are available, what do you enter?

Kusalananda

6:11 AM

@Adam It shows the names of the commands running as background jobs of the current shell session. It's the same as compgen -A job. It's a bash built-in command, so it's further documented in the bash manual (man bash).

@Adam If you are using just ${string//[!0-9,]/} on the command line, then it would try to run the result as a command, which may be why you get "command not found". You may want to use printf '%s\n' "${string//[!0-9,]/}" to print the result of the substitution instead.

@Adam It may be better to tell us what it is you're trying to do. Using ls to get the size of files is not really good.

With stat, you would (on a Linux system) use stat -c '%s' filename to get the sive of the file called filename.

On a BSD system, you would use -f '%z' instead of -c '%s'.

Adam

8:59 AM

ok well, what I am doing, is first essentially using compgen and the various options to pipe the manuals for each line of the output into temporary files, then splitting these into subfolders based on a manual being present and not being present, @Kusalananda yep I looked up everything regarding compgen, but really it's just an elaborate exercise with the only real purpose of me getting the hang of using the various pattern searching and text processing packages in bash scripts,

and because i figured it would serve a dual purpose if the text i am working with is manuals and help files for other aspects of Linux, its a more productive exercise as opposed to say just working with a randomly selected body of text

Faheem Mitha

9:19 AM

Hi folks. Python's Pandas and SQLite handle CSV file imports differently in one respect, if there is a command inside a field value, but it's surrounded by double quotes, Python ignores that comma. But SQLite doesn't seem to. I'm wondering if I should read the writing on the wall and switch to tab separated values, which are probably saner, because it would be very unusual for a field value to contain tabs. Thoughts?

Hmm, this comment is referencing something called rfc4180 superuser.com/questions/1184776/…

Kiwy

@FaheemMitha I know that Spark will work like Python. I think it's a bug from sqlite to ignore quotes if you instruct it to treat field enclose by quotes.

Faheem Mitha

@Kiwy Hmm. Should I report it, then?

Though apparently it does not have an issue tracker.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yeah, sqlite bugs are discussed on the user mailing list

Faheem Mitha

This seems to be exactly that bug - sqlite.org/src/tktview?name=c25aab7e7e

Kiwy

@StephenKitt Hello sir.

Faheem Mitha

9:26 AM

Marked as fix, but no details given.

@StephenKitt Ok, I'll shoot an email there.

Kiwy

how are you doing ? preparing for the WIMIX ?

Faheem Mitha

Thoughts on whether I should just move to tab delimited? I suspect it will take up rather more space. One nice thing about commas is that it doesn't take up much space.

Stephen Kitt

@Kiwy yes, well for MiXiT ;-)

@FaheemMitha disk space? tabs and commas both occupy one byte in ASCII or UTF-8

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt On the line.

If there are sufficient fields (I think I have 8?) it could double the length of the line in some cases. Just looking for a vote, either way.

If it was you, what would you do?

Kiwy

@StephenKitt yeah, well you understood ;-)

Stephen Kitt

9:31 AM

@FaheemMitha not use either CSV or TSV

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt What would you use then?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha XML or JSON

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Yikes.

Does anyone else have recommendations? I don't know about XML. Let me check with JSON looks like.

Stephen Kitt

twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1130005380266942465

Kiwy

@StephenKitt what the twitt ? It does not make sense at all :D

except that Arch admin are indeed super user IMO

I've tried it it's a pain in the *** to simply get the simplest thing working

Stephen Kitt

9:43 AM

@Kiwy I just thought people here would find it amusing, at last we have a photo of terdon

Kiwy

Oh don't hear me wrong, it's fun but I do not understand how things drift so fast on Internet :D

(see the pun on Fast and Furious and drifting ?)

Kusalananda

@StephenKitt So, they look cool and get all the girls, and they use the machine with the all the blinking lights?

That's cute. :-)

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Photo of terdon? You mean, because he is an Arch user?

Kiwy

10:07 AM

@Kusalananda blinking lights in that case are named turn signals. I think ...

Kusalananda

@Kiwy I was referring to the paint job of the car. Fancy desktop towers have LED lights instead.

Kiwy

well I was just joking... :-S

Faheem Mitha

10:26 AM

@StephenKitt I sent an email to the SQLite mailing list. Though I might get bounced, because I'm not subscribed. We'll see.

Currently considering my options re the file format.

Faheem Mitha

10:45 AM

Not the best configured domain ever - mailinglists.sqlite.org

@StephenKitt Actually, I've always thought of JSON as a config format.

Jeff Schaller

1:16 PM

Wow! 350 point bounty was just placed:

0

Q: amd-vi completion wait loop and other errors/messages in my attempt to install Arch Linux on blank SSD

Update: I burned the Arch ISO to a CD then tried booting from it, both in UEFI and legacy. Same type of result: Original question: I used dd to put this Arch ISO (Version 2019.05.02) on a USB stick, then attempted to boot from it on my desktop computer. When the Arch menu comes up, I choose...

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller do mods get notified of bounties, or did you happen to notice this independently of your modly powers?

Jeff Schaller

1:31 PM

@StephenKitt wouldn't you like to know ;)

(it was happy luck that I clicked on the Home/active tab just after it was posted)

I was extra impressed that they spent ~99% of their rep on it

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller ha ha yes. I should post a question on Skeptics.SE, asking whether the absence of an answer to that question confirms that the moderator cabal has dark secrets it must keep from us mere mortals :-P.

Jeff Schaller

@StephenKitt I can only hope that they would leave that Question unanswered

or, a vacuous answer would be better

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller indeed. There are a few users who spend their rep on bonuses quite liberally, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a large bonus relative to the user’s rep...

Jeff Schaller

I am building up some thoughts to answer your question with - flagging is definitely one class where I'd like to provide a little guidance

the happy news is that the site seems to run pretty well, in general. I think that's why there's been no immediate answers

Stephen Kitt

Yes, it is the kind of question which takes a while to answer.

Especially if the answer comes from a new mod, I imagine it takes a little while to figure out how you like to handle flags...

Jeff Schaller

1:41 PM

I'm still going through withdrawal -- trying to stop answering questions, and having to walk away from a close review queue of 20+

every once in a while I'll run through it, but remembering that I have a bigger hammer in my hand

and then someone will point me to an ed question and it's down the rabbit hole :)

Stephen Kitt

ha ha ha

“Here’s how to get terdon to handle your flag, and not JeffSchaller: make sure you mention a question in chat which is begging for an ed-based answer, then raise your flag.”

(Or any other mod really, I was just picking on terdon as an example.)

Jeff Schaller

be sure to post it after Kusalananda goes to sleep; that guy keeps posting good ed answers, too

Stephen Kitt

Or mention tea in the chat, then he’ll go off and make himself a cuppa ;-).

terdon

@StephenKitt Yeah, right. That's what they all say!

Stephen Kitt

2:02 PM

@terdon you’ll get the badge for “mod with most mentions in chat” when it’s created

terdon

Well, at least I have something to look forward to then :P

Kusalananda

@StephenKitt Hmmm... I think it's time for another cup of something warm to drink. Strange, I got this sudden yearning for tea.

Stephen Kitt

@Kusalananda heh that could be a line in a text adventure...

Kusalananda

2:18 PM

"quaff tea". "you have drawn the attention of a grue"

Rui F Ribeiro

2:39 PM

Here we are coffee nuts....if one does not control himself, between your drinks and social drinks you can get well to 6-10 expressos per day.

Faheem Mitha

3:21 PM

@StephenKitt I heard back from Richard Hipp and company. Apparently if I wrap a comma in double quotes, then I can't have space after the comma separator. Which I suppose is reasonable.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha ah, around the separating commas? Yes, that makes sense.

Faheem Mitha

But really, CSV seems fraught with issues. JSON actually looks pretty reasonable, but it doesn't look like SQLite supports JSON import.

@StephenKitt Yes, around the separating commas. Richard Hipp quoted that standard as saying white space is part of the field. But I make liberal use of whitespace for legibility.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yes, that is what the standard says.

Faheem Mitha

I checked, and SQLite does indeed retain whitespace on import.

I'm not sure what Pandas does. I hadn't noticed whitespace, but perhaps I wasn't looking.

Maybe I should just switch to TSV to retain my sanity.

Does anyone else have thoughts?

@Kusalananda I've never understood this well-nigh universal human yearning for hot liquids. In the UK it's tea.

@JeffSchaller He/she must really want an answer.

Has anyone tried an OCR tool with text acreenshots ever?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha in the UK it’s been coffee for over thirty years (see e.g. washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/04/…)

Faheem Mitha

3:36 PM

@StephenKitt Yes, people seem to love coffee. Internationally, it's probably ahead of tea. Though I won't attempt to defend that statement if challenged.

@StephenKitt Paywall.

Kusalananda

@FaheemMitha Paywall with a free alternative to pick.

Faheem Mitha

@Kusalananda Ah right. Disable ad blocker.

I'm reluctant to do that, though.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha ah, yes, sorry; the same figures are available in a bunch of places.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Ok.

Kusalananda

@FaheemMitha Because you don't want the Washington Post to get the ad revenues?

Faheem Mitha

3:49 PM

@Kusalananda No, because I'm not sure how well this selective on and off thing works.

Software is buggy.

I prefer to keep my shields up. To use Star Trek lingo.

Does anyone selectively enable? And if so, how does it work? It kind of feels like a slippery slope.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha but I see there are contradictory figures too, e.g. indy100.com/article/…

Faheem Mitha

I do know India is still more in the direction of tea.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha I do, using privacy badger (specific ad networks on specific sites)

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt And it works ok?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha as far as I can tell, yes.

Faheem Mitha

3:53 PM

@StephenKitt Hmm. I'm not using privacy badger. Thanks for the tip.

According to this article I'm reading, SQLite is in the public domain. That's quite unusual.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha I have 682 packages on my system with at least some public domain components... But yes, it’s unusual for a “popular” software project.

Faheem Mitha

Indeed, my copy of SQLite has the following:

> The author disclaims all copyright. The library is in the public domain.

@StephenKitt Which other public domain software do you know of?

Jeff Schaller

(StephenKitt is typing 682 things...)

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha a quick look through the first few of the 682 copyright files shows SE Linux and ANTLR

There’s a bunch of stuff under CC0 or WTFPL which are equivalent to public-domain but enforceable.

(51 WTFPL packages on my system, and at least 89 CC0 packages.)

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt SE Linux is public domain?

Jeff Schaller

4:02 PM

@StephenKitt lol! first I'd heard of that license

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha like all US government-funded software.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh.

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller by the inimitable Sam Hocevar!

Jeff Schaller

@StephenKitt I haven't had the pleasure - but I like the guy already! "I am also a contributor to the Wikipedia project, mostly fixing grammar and spelling errors." A fan of Terry Pratchett, and lord there's another TODO for me: "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation"

Kusalananda

@JeffSchaller I can recommend that Eat, Shoots & Leaves book. It was fun.

Stephen Kitt

4:10 PM

@JeffSchaller ah yes that book’s great fun!

@JeffSchaller Sam is also the author of libcaca and other such pieces of software.

Jeff Schaller

woohoo! my library has an available ebook version

now I have 256 highly-recommended pages to distract me from answering Stephen's Meta question

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller I’ve pwned myself again

I’m on book 4 of the Wheel of Time series, that’s quite distracting too!

And working my way through the exercises in The Go Programming Language which is a different sort of distraction.

Jeff Schaller

I started keeping a book TODO list; when it crested 400, I gave up

I was all set to make myself a liar with "Eats" but then you both jumped in

why did I have to go back and look at the list? sigh

Faheem Mitha

4:25 PM

Todos only work if you have iron discipline. I.e. if you are Donald Knuth, for example.

Otherwise it's just a list that causes guilt.

Jeff Schaller

I've already buried myself in podcasts, then there's Mary Roach and Donald Norman and Garfield Minus Garfield and How to Build a Hovercraft and...

Faheem Mitha

I'm not sure how you folks find the time. Do you have many hands and heads?

Jeff Schaller

I'm just exposing my pain -- these are books that I'd probably really enjoy that I'll probably never read.

Faheem Mitha

> The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.

From a sig on the SQLite mailing list.

@JeffSchaller I'd be happy to make suggestions. Books That Everyone Should Read.

Actually, it would not be a long list. At all.

I'm guessing that half the people here are Pratchett fans. Am I right?

Jeff Schaller

@FaheemMitha I'm half a fan. I discovered him through other peoples' .signatures and they're on my "TODO" list.

Faheem Mitha

4:30 PM

For example, Watership Down. Which you should read if you haven't.

@JeffSchaller I'm not sure I'm a fan. But I do quote him to people. He's very quotable.

Jeff Schaller

@FaheemMitha perhaps that's what I should say. I've enjoyed some of his lines :)

Faheem Mitha

That May woman is having a rough year. If British PMs weren't so loathsome, I'd feel sorry for her.

@JeffSchaller I've really only read some of his early stuff. Roughly coinciding with my stay in the UK. He's very popular there.

Adam

7:03 PM

jfc swear word removed happy pappy?

Adam

7:14 PM

I am entering the error message in my output that I don't understand and the tor browser just gives me endless links to to the same thing that isn't even my first computer I had a sega mega drive Atari were the generation before me

May 22 at 3:01 AM

https://archive.org/stream/ataribooks-your-atari-computer/yourataricomputer_djvu.txt

Kusalananda

8:12 PM

@Adam Is this a question, or just a statement?

Jeff Schaller

@Kusalananda it's Schrödinger's chat

Adam

9:08 PM

sorry this is a question now so no previous was my computer making fun of me but that's a probably slightly paranoid and delusional thought move onto the question, whats the environmental variable for the "present line" being processed by the input output thingy?

like I need to put an if statement in that will supress the "as expected" output that I am getting so I only receive these weird error messages that I have no clue the meaning of

Michael Homer

@Adam unix.stackexchange.com/questions/ask

Adam

:-|

yeah I closed that one and googled compgen Linux terminal this is different tho

well at least I should have closed it and not posted it I mean yes I was a little drunk an hour ago but not drunk as in non functioning drunk

oh actually yeah compgen -e or compgen -v was environmentals wasn't it

Adam

9:42 PM

and these are a few of the examples of the weirdos that pop up between them that I am currently clueless about

warning: page 12: table text block will not fit on one page
grotty:<standard input> (<standard input>):690: character above first line discarded
grotty:<standard input> (<standard input>):694: character above first line discarded

<standard input>:344: warning: can't find special character `cl'
<standard input>:471: empty escape name

<standard input>:163: warning [p 1, 5.0i]: can't break line
<standard input>:382: warning [p 3, 3.0i, div `an-div', 0.0i]: can't break line

<standard input>:166: warning [p 1, 5.5i]: can't break line

Basically the expected lines of output are either:
See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available.
or
No manual entry for $current_package\alias\built-in\command_being_processed

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