/dev/chat - 2018-09-21

« first day (2904 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2033 days later) »

12:02 AM

@Ungeheuer what does "failure" mean? A wild guess would be a variable that's set by your interactive login environment that's not set in a non-interactive (script). But failure could be anything -- is the $PATH wrong and it's not finding gpg? Is the extraction failing? If you can spell these things out, it could be a question for the site

2 hours later…

2:07 AM

@JeffSchaller Failure meaning gpg reports it can't find the file in script, but can in terminal. I checked to make sure the for output file and signed file have the correct values, and they do.

Is there a log somewhere that records what gpg says it got passed to it? That would clear everything up if I knew what gpg saw.

This is on RHEL btw

CORRECTION: I checked to make sure the variables containing the output file path and signed path have the correct values, and they do.

2:24 AM

@Fabby add a set -x to see what gets executed

woops, wrong reply; sorry Fabby!

@Ungeheuer use set -x to see what gets executed

@JeffSchaller ooh. I'll have to try that when I get to work tmo

Is this site the right one to seek assistance for Linux install issues on? I've been trying to install Fedora on a laptop, and after finding the community respins, I finally made progress, but I can't get the Nvidia proprietary drivers to work.

5 hours later…

7:35 AM

@JeffSchaller No worries: setting my brain to debug mode would make me even more verbose and I talk too much already!

;-) :-)

1 hour later…

8:55 AM

"Debug mode" is what I call the conversation style of young people. "And then he said... And I was like..., And then she said..." (retelling word for word as opposed to actually describing what happened).

Hello !

https://unix.stackexchange.com/q/470481/53092
I'm sure this is duplicate question but I can't manage to find a question where someone ask how to put my output in a file

3 hours later…

12:16 PM

Well, gmane web links are broken. Wonderful.

Hi @FaheemMitha

lwn.net/Articles/748184

I'm really not sure why someone can't just pick up Gmane. Not an individual, of course.

Lars ran it single-handed for years, so it can't be that much work.

@PrabhjotSingh Hey.

I see that Wikipedia is now linking to web.archive.org (the Wayback Machine), instead of LWN directly.

This is perhaps a defensive move, but is this now becoming a thing? Or is it just for LWN?

I wish Debian had picked up Gmane, but I never saw any discussion of this. I suppose it's way outside their mission.

@FaheemMitha Debian hosts its own infrastructure for its own mailing lists, but not others

@StephenKitt Yes, I realise that. But something like Gmane would be technically well within its capacity. Though I also realise the Project has enough on its plate already.

Regardless, it's unfortunate. I really liked Gmane.

@FaheemMitha yup, it is that

for all the money flowing around certain parts of the free software / open source world (see recent discussions about the LF), there’s an unfortunate lack of means in a number of important areas

12:30 PM

@StephenKitt Agreed. But I've said as much here, and in other places. As have others. Including on LWN. It's a well-known dysfunction.

@StephenKitt Did you see that LF tax statement? Some people, at least, are doing well out of Linux.

Recent discussions about LF where?

@FaheemMitha in a number of places, regarding the 2016 tax statement in particular

but really the LF is like athletes’ salaries

if LF directors are doing well, it’s because member companies are doing well

(plus some stuff about Bay Area salaries of course)

@StephenKitt I don't follow that analogy.

@FaheemMitha soccer players command huge salaries because football clubs make tons of money, in particular from TV rights

@StephenKitt $600k for some random administrator is a nice chunk of change, Bay Aea or not.

@StephenKitt Oh, ok.

And Torvalds seems to be doing quite nicely for himself too.

Though I don't suppose anyone has anything to say about that.

@FaheemMitha 600k for some random administrator?

12:34 PM

@StephenKitt Yes, at least based on that LF tax statement I was looking at.

I know some of the LF admins and they don’t earn anything like that

Here’s the tax statement: projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/460503801/…

@StephenKitt Maybe I'm mistaken. But it definitely looked like someone was. Oh, sorry, I guess you're misunderstanding what I mean by administrator. I didn't mean in the sysadmin sense.

I meant like the VPs or whatever.

it only lists “Officers, Directors, Trustees, Key Employees, Highest Compensated Employees, and Independent Contractors”

oh right, directors

right, in absolute terms the salaries are high

but again in the director world 600k isn’t huge, in the Bay Area

Eg. Mike Woster, whoever that is. Slightly over 600K.

and you end up in the nasty game of having to increase compensation because high-level directors can easily go elsewhere

12:37 PM

@StephenKitt So, what do these people do, exactly?

I knew some well paid people when I worked in universities in the US.

@FaheemMitha they’re in the schmoozing business, something I don’t understand

The more they were paid, they less they did.

Also, they used to lie a lot about the actual work they did. It would have been funny if it wasn't so disgusting.

@StephenKitt Ah, the world's oldest profession?

@FaheemMitha right, in those circles compensation seems to be linked to your ability to talk well and your circle of acquaintances, rather than the actual value you contribute

@StephenKitt Something like that.

although it’s not all roses, I know Neela Jacques struggled for a while to find another job after leaving the LF

12:39 PM

Frat Boy stuff, perhaps. I don't really understand those dynamics, either.

@StephenKitt I'm not clear what the LF actually does. Apart from paying LT's salary.

Do they pay for other Linux kenel devs?

@FaheemMitha I will be free at 10. Found interesting things related to aadhar.

@PrabhjotSingh ok.

@FaheemMitha Greg KH

they also host a number of projects, including the one I work on, OpenDaylight

@StephenKitt Oh, yes. I saw his name there.

@StephenKitt Ok.

they provide hardware, mailing lists etc

12:41 PM

@StephenKitt I see.

(which makes it annoying that they don’t provide mailing lists for the kernel...)

they also organise events

see events.linuxfoundation.org

@StephenKitt So you know some of the sysadmins who work there?

@FaheemMitha yes

and some of the directors

Ok. So you're actually paid by them? I thought you work for RH.

@FaheemMitha I work for Red Hat, I just happen to work on a project which is hosted by the LF

12:44 PM

One hears these weird rumors about the LF trying to subvert free software, and that they are behind that bizarre court case. Hard to know what's true.

@StephenKitt Oh, so they don't pay you. Got it.

I guess not everyone uses GitHub.

Does the LF do certification, I wonder. That seems like a natural area.

@FaheemMitha ?

@StephenKitt You said the LF hosts the project you work on.

So it's presumably not on GH.

@FaheemMitha yes, they do: training.linuxfoundation.org/certification

@FaheemMitha it’s mirrored on GitHub

but “hosting” is a lot more than what GitHub provides

@StephenKitt ok

@StephenKitt Oh?

Legal stuff too?

@FaheemMitha legal stuff, events (as mentioned), high-level discussions with member companies, marketing, press relations...

12:47 PM

@StephenKitt I see.

I see for example that Mike Woster has a business degree from Kellogg.

1:44 PM

@FaheemMitha a cereal company?

2:18 PM

Does this make sense to anyone?

0

A: Bash script: bad interpreter

This happens sometimes when file system goes funny. Try to move or rename the file. If you see "Stale file handle" error this is your problem. e.g. happened us with CentOS docker $ ./test.sh -bash: ./test.sh: /bin/bash: bad interpreter: Invalid argument $ ls -alstr test.sh 20 -r-xr-xr-x 0 o...

Could that happen without docker being involved?

2:39 PM

@JeffSchaller Thanks for the tip with set -x! It helped, and it's nice to use. I'm slightly confused as to what the reason is for the + to indicate indirection. I've never really thought of indirection in anything but C with pointers. Anyhow, set -x shows me that what I expect to be passed to gpg is in fact being passed to it.

I even added --decrypt FILE to make it more clear which file is being decrypted.

I'm gonna ask my tech lead to look at it :/ The command is a straight copy-paste from what some other guy wrote. I just changed his script to be really paranoid and make sure we can actually enter directories and such things, log differently, and make better use of variables.

dunno how that would break this

1 hour later…

3:49 PM

Isaac just caused me some temporary insanity. I intended to answer a Meta question of theirs, and I thought I had, but then (and now), I can't find it! I believe they deleted the Meta Q after the comments and my Answer came back with "why?" and "no", respectively. Went temporarily crazy wondering whether I had replied or not, though.

@JeffSchaller I always mark questions as favourites before answering them, for exactly this scenario

4:07 PM

@StephenKitt brilliant! although I suppose it was only a Meta question -- it would still help save what's left of my sanity

oh hoh! You stimulated a 3rd brain cell and my browser history happily had the page

@JeffSchaller hah yeah that works too

43 minutes after I answered, they deleted the Q :(

@JeffSchaller that’s... not very nice

if only for my sanity! but more broadly, "bad" ideas -- ones that community doesn't support, are still useful as guideposts for the future

"in 2018, we didn't like this idea"

I'd assume they're aware that Meta rep is independent from 'main' rep; shrug

@JeffSchaller care to post a link for us privileged 10k+ users?

4:15 PM

unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5004/…

no one-boxing? there goes another brain cell

unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5004

(fail)

@JeffSchaller not for deleted questions

@StephenKitt ahhhhh; thank you

right after I found the MSE post explaining that they fixed HTTPS intra-site one-boxing

and now I feel better after editing the MSE FAQ to except deleted posts

@FaheemMitha On March 27, 2017: Chief Justice of India J.S. Khehar orally observes that there is no fault with the government’s choice to make Aadhaar mandatory for “non-welfare” activities like opening a bank account or applying for a mobile connection. However, no official verdict was announced.

4:31 PM

@StephenKitt favorited questions can not be deleted?

@sebasth they can, but you can find them again

more easily find them again -- by directly going to your favorited questions in SE, versus digging up browser history

well, requires 10K rep to see them anyways iirc

@sebasth yes

4:44 PM

I'm somewhat confused by confusion about my answer, is it unusually unclear? I'm not a native English speaker so I might be missing something.

@JeffSchaller I voted to undelete this, I think it would be useful to keep

@StephenKitt thank you for participating! I was mostly just venting at the "trail went cold in my head", and wasn't yet advocating for an undelete. I appreciate their effort at having useful terms and tags, so I'm not sure why they deleted it.

@JeffSchaller yeah I voted because the question deserves it, not because it’s you ;-)

@StephenKitt thank you! :)

5:04 PM

@sebasth sounds to me like there might be confusion about where the unlink happens

it isn't really related since the copy will be incomplete even if unlink doesn't happen ;\

5:19 PM

But adding AddressFamily inet in /etc/ssh/sshd_config, what are we telling ssh server?

I know it is for ipv4 stack only device..

but how this option help ssh server?

ssh server will only listen ipv4 addresses I imagine

[man page says](http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/cosmic/man5/sshd_config.5.html):
> Specifies which address family should be used by sshd(8). Valid arguments are *any* (the default), *inet* (use IPv4 only), or *inet6* (use IPv6 only).

Thanks @terdon for startpage.com & duckduckgo.com

But Puppet is not configured properly to set this entry in ipv4 only machines...

most of our configuration files are managed by Puppet

5:58 PM

@sebasth The issue with scp after mv unlinks the file is that scp still has the original file handle open. It can continue reading the file contents until EOF. So far as its concerned, the file has never been truncated and it can transfer the file intact to the remote location.

@DougO'Neal yes, but I think the question is about mv done on the receiving host.

3 hours later…

8:53 PM

@PrabhjotSingh Is this person still Chief Justice?

9:03 PM

@FaheemMitha don't you know this man broke into tears before his retirement.

@PrabhjotSingh Hi. Still awake? I just woke up - writing emails.

@FaheemMitha hi

@PrabhjotSingh Oh, I remember watching the video. He got very emotional talking about how badly the Indian justice system worked, was that it?

He was sort of pleading with someone - I can't remember who it was.

yes, and that govt is sitting on judicial appointments.

Actually, that's a stupid question - I can check who the Chief Justice is.

@PrabhjotSingh He thought that was a bad thing? I think it probably is.

The govt claims that if appointments are made internally, then nepotism. And the judiciary says if the govt chooses, they will choose people who will favor the govt in decisions.

9:07 PM

@FaheemMitha CJI, now you know about master of roster controversy?

I find the judiciary's argument more compelling.

@PrabhjotSingh I'm not sure what that is.

@FaheemMitha 4 judges did a press conference against CJI. thereafter CJI said I am master of roster

@PrabhjotSingh I remember the press conference. What does the roster mean?

@FaheemMitha nowhere in the world judges appoint judges

@JeffSchaller I found what my problem was. I changed IFS so I could iterate over a set of sentences, and that changed screwed up the parsing of everything for the invocation of gpg. The gpg command and its options were stored in a variable (gpg --lock-never...) and trying to substitute it in with non-default IFS broke it.

9:09 PM

Which judges are chosen for a case?

@PrabhjotSingh Oh? So you think that is a bad thing?

I'm not sure why it broke anything though...

@FaheemMitha exactly

@FaheemMitha have you ever heard Uncle judge syndrome?

@PrabhjotSingh I don't know, of the top of my head.

@FaheemMitha google uncle judge syndrome outlookindia, i think you will find

@PrabhjotSingh Ok.

9:15 PM

@FaheemMitha you said that day something contempt of court?

@PrabhjotSingh I forget. What was the concept?

@PrabhjotSingh Oh, right. Nepotism. I hear that is a common problem.

And also judges favoring their friends among the lawyers, possibly.

@FaheemMitha >I get the feeling a lot of those judges don't want to offend the Govt. They could easily hold them in contempt, but haven't.

@PrabhjotSingh Oh yes, over the Aadhaar case.

What about it?

1.Govt is the biggest litigant in our country.

2. After retirement judges don't have lock-in period.

@FaheemMitha And i have a feeling that contempt is antithetical to free speech.

@PrabhjotSingh Lock-in, in what sense? Like guaranteed incomes?

9:20 PM

defamation too for that matter.

@PrabhjotSingh Not really. It's punishing people for criminal actions.

If the govt is abusing its power, it should be checked. Though of course, in the real world, judges don't do that.

@FaheemMitha Very Next day after retirement govt can appoint him/her on Press council of India, Human rights commission.

Judges should exercise restraint from joining them.

@PrabhjotSingh Oh. Is that relevant?

@FaheemMitha Why not relevent?

NJAC struck down by apex court could address that.

@FaheemMitha duckduckgo.com startpage.com are working well. at par with google. Another world is possible.

@PrabhjotSingh Can you elaborate on what you mean?

9:27 PM

@FaheemMitha on what?

You mean judges could want favors from the govt after retirement?

@PrabhjotSingh The comment starting with "Very Next day...".

@FaheemMitha There should be a lock-in period.

@PrabhjotSingh What kind of lock-in?

I am not an constitutional expert though.

@FaheemMitha Say two years after retirement you could be appointed.

@PrabhjotSingh Appointed to what? Some govt thing?

9:30 PM

You found The Tribune link. Ms. Rachna Khaira story on Aadhar?

@FaheemMitha Press council of India, Human rights commission.

@FaheemMitha Am i Paranoid?

Reply honestly.

@PrabhjotSingh Paranoid about what?

@FaheemMitha Paranoid about current affairs.

Things are not that bad as i see.

@PrabhjotSingh No, I don't think you are paranoid.

Then read http://www.im4change.org/siteadmin/tinymce/uploaded/Aadhaar%20and%20Food%20Security%20in%20Jharkhand%20Pain%20without%20Gain.pdf
http://www.im4change.org/siteadmin/tinymce/uploaded/Understanding_Leakages_in_the_Public_Distribution_System.pdf

Ok

9:36 PM

You need not read full article. Read under the heading "How Does ABBA Work?"

Ok

@PrabhjotSingh Live biometric authentication is an insanely stupid idea. Anywhere, but particularly in India.

There is no allowance for error at all, for example.

@FaheemMitha Ritika Khera and Jean Dreze wrote many great articles on PDS.

I mean, errors in being unable to read the biometrics.

@PrabhjotSingh Yes, I see.

@FaheemMitha India is home to worl's is third poor. See hardship they face. When I talk aadhar so i don't focus on privacy.

First I don't understand what privacy is. Second, I focus on poor.

Understanding Leakages in the Public Distribution System. I copy wrong link.

Those articles are quite impressive. I wonder who is funding this work.

Very scholarly. Like academic papers.

9:47 PM

@FaheemMitha Not everyone chases money.

The only thing that is missing is institutional affiliation.

@PrabhjotSingh Sure, but people have to eat.

Even researchers/journalists.

@FaheemMitha What I find wrong about EPW is that they are not free.

Like I said, people have to eat.

I have read them before. I spent four hours to find them cuz on epw website they were paid.

@FaheemMitha Jean is in Ranchi University. Ritika is In IIT Delhi.

Weird, Jean Drèze is actually Belgian, but he moved to India.

I mean, who does that?

9:50 PM

@FaheemMitha no, no he is indian.

@PrabhjotSingh I think you're linking the wrong comment.

Jean Drèze (born 1959) is a Belgian-born Indian development economist and activist. His work in India has been studying several developmental issues like hunger, famine, gender inequality, child health and education, and the NREGA. He had conceptualized and drafted the first version of the NREGA. His co-authors include Nobel laureate in economics Amartya Sen, with whom he has written on famine, Nicholas Stern, with whom he has written on policy reform when market prices are distorted, and Nobel laureate in economics Angus Deaton. He is currently an honorary Professor at the Delhi School of Economics...

@FaheemMitha Guha once wrote about him in The Telegraph that He is proud to be his compatroit.

I wonder if we should be using a different room. This seems like an excessive amount of off-topic. Even for U&L.

@PrabhjotSingh If I was born in Europe, I wouldn't go within a thousand miles of India. Just saying.

@FaheemMitha Wikipedia page you sent says He has lived in India since 1979 and became an Indian citizen in 2002.

@PrabhjotSingh Yes, I know. But he's still a European.

9:53 PM

@FaheemMitha He is my compatroit.

@PrabhjotSingh ok

He worked with Prof A. Sen and Angus Deaton.

I see those papers do have affiliations. I missed them.

@FaheemMitha See political position of EPW.

@PrabhjotSingh Which is?

9:56 PM

Left leaning.

@terdon Should we set up a separate room for these chats? I fear we may be creating an off-topic nuisance.

@FaheemMitha People in the Left say we are for free and open knowledge. But their magazines you can't access. how bad.

@FaheemMitha These are peer reviewed articles.

@PrabhjotSingh Well, even left people need to eat.

Aa man cannot live by bread alone

@PrabhjotSingh Yes, they looked like research articles to me. I've seen enough of them.

10:03 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes

@FaheemMitha You read EPW before?

@FaheemMitha Jean Dreze and Guha are no short of rockstar to me.

I sent link by mistake: Understanding Leakages in
the Public Distribution System

@PrabhjotSingh I've heard of it, but no. I read an article which described it as one of the few worthwhile/serious publications in India.

Another being Frontline from the Hindu group.

I don't really get that much time for reading, even though I am a fast reader.

@FaheemMitha I started this reading when Pranjoy became its editor.

@PrabhjotSingh Do you subscribe?

And my bowels don't move until i read The Hindu.

@FaheemMitha Yes

@FaheemMitha If you praise me, Much of the credit would go to The Hindu.

@PrabhjotSingh Ah, ok. I thought of subscribing to Frontline, but haven't.

The trouble with serious magazines, at least in India, is that they are uniformly depressing.

I'm not sure I need more of that in my life.

10:10 PM

depressing in sense?

@PrabhjotSingh All bad news. Horrible things happening everywhere. Sex slavery, indentured labor, health/medical issues, you know the kind of thing.

@FaheemMitha If you recllect the day we were discussing demonetisation, I refer to a survey published in EPW.

@PrabhjotSingh I vaguely remember. So EPW is good? How long have you been reading/subscribing?

2 years or so. Before this I used to read Outlook.

@FaheemMitha Frontline is good?

Jean Drèze seems like a pretty impressive guy.

@PrabhjotSingh I've read it occasionally. It seems to be. At least in comparison with the rubbish out there.

There really isn't a lot of choice if you are looking for Indian periodicals that do serious reporting.

10:15 PM

@FaheemMitha Jean Dreze PDS expert and works for the poor.

@PrabhjotSingh So I see.

@FaheemMitha Ours is a very great country.

@PrabhjotSingh If you say so.

everyone knows Shah Rukh, Amitabh but don't Jean Dreze.

His wife has a PhD from Cambridge!

10:17 PM

@FaheemMitha Bella?

Well, she certainly isn't from a poor family, then.

@PrabhjotSingh Yes, see her WP page.

I mean Bella Bhatia.

@PrabhjotSingh Yes. I knew some Indian grad students while I was at Cambridge.

I think there are quite a lot of them there.

@FaheemMitha You ever read China'a quarterly?

@PrabhjotSingh No.

10:20 PM

@FaheemMitha This is published by cambridge.

@FaheemMitha You are nearly 40?

@PrabhjotSingh Older.

@FaheemMitha Btw this should be said violation of privacy.

10:43 PM

@PrabhjotSingh ?

@FaheemMitha I asked that question to show that we often violate privacy of others.

@PrabhjotSingh Oh. Don't worry about it.

@FaheemMitha people feel that friends and celebrities don't deserve privacy, seriously.

If you recall I wrote this before that privacy in our country is in its infancy.

@FaheemMitha Adios

@PrabhjotSingh Going back to sleep?

@FaheemMitha Yes

10:54 PM

@PrabhjotSingh Have a good night.

« first day (2904 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2033 days later) »

Transcript for

Sep '1821

/dev/chat

General discussion for unix.stackexchange.com. If you have a q...

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile