/dev/chat

9:13 AM

Hello chat

9:59 AM

Hello Kiwy

@derobert I recommend an exponential pricing model to discourage abuse: 0¹ for the first question, 0² for the second, etc.

and the exponent reduces as answers are accepted

Fabby

12:53 PM

@StephenKitt Did you propose for a cut to be handed out to the answerer in gold, silver and bronze? ;-)

Stephen Kitt

1:04 PM

@Fabby ah yes how could I forget!

Fabby

:-) ;-)

Kiwy

How "community" is closing question
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/466155/gnome-3-with-kali-linux
I know it could do edits and up question in the recent one... but didn't it could vote close as duplicate

Fabby

@Kiwy Because Rui has a gold hammer.

he's like a mini-mod for his gold badges.

"Kali" and "beginning user" do not go well together, so most Kali beginner questions get closed as dupes to that one.

(I especially like this pic in one of the answers:)

Kali ----^

Kiwy

1:22 PM

@Fabby I never noticed that community was closing the question along with a user that have a golden badge.
Regarding the question, I'm completely OK with being closed...

and according to another question of that user, I'm pretty sure, is a total beginner without any understanding of what is doing or try to do.

Fabby

Probably some internal SE workaround to be able to give individuals partial mod powers.

@Kiwy What would be the correct translation into your native language for "n00b" (except Débutant" which I know already?)

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby yes, once you have 200 answers with 1000 upvotes in a given tag, you get a gold badge which comes with a hammer: one-shot question closures, re-opens etc.

Fabby

0:-)

Stephen Kitt

what really annoys me about the Kali dupe-close thing is that it prevents anyone from answering

Fabby

Yup, jealous of that, as I'm more of e generalist than a specialist...

Stephen Kitt

1:25 PM

usually when a question is closed as a duplicate, the OP can find the answer in the linked dupe

the Kali dupe close question is just “go away”

Fabby

@StephenKitt If you really want you can post a comment and ask for a re-open...

Stephen Kitt

and even if someone feels like answering, they can’t once the question is closed

Kiwy

@StephenKitt Shall we edit the most upvoted answer to add some basic answer to it

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby that rarely works, and even if it does, we’ve become really good at closing questions very quickly, so if you’re not around when the re-open happens you miss your chance

@Kiwy no, I think the Kali dupe and the behaviours it encourages are emblematic of the decrease in friendliness of the site

Fabby

@StephenKitt Rally? Even you? On AU if a gold badge user asks to re-open because he's going to answer, we generally do.

Have you tried???

Stephen Kitt

1:27 PM

I don’t think improving the question serves any purpose

Kiwy

fact is most kali question are about broken linux driver or messed up sources.list

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby yes, sometimes

I usually get it re-opened but like I said, it usually gets closed again

Fabby

Leaving a comment before re-opening???

Wow...

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby there are enough reviewers here who don’t read comments unfortunately

Fabby

Well, here's the kind of comment I leave:

Stephen Kitt

1:29 PM

in this particular instance though the scenario is different

Rui flagged the question as a dupe

and the OP agreed

Fabby

Ah!

Stephen Kitt

that’s what the “Community” thing means

Kiwy

What I don't understand is how so many beginners tries Kali Linux...
Do they distribute DVD outside high schools and college ?

Fabby

ah!!!!

Stephen Kitt

@Kiwy Mr. Robot

Fabby

1:29 PM

@Kiwy try googling for "hacker OS"

Kiwy

Who does this search ?

Fabby

Kali list like the 20 first hits.

Kiwy

@StephenKitt OK community was then indeed a special thing, thanks for the explanatino

Fabby

(I didn't know either)

Unfortunately, most beginning hackers think Kali will make them a hacker.

(Instead of years of hard studying and ethical hacking instead of cracking)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kiwy

BUt how the f*** if you have the sligthest understanding of what you want to do you think that a tool will make you a pro. Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter and I'm pretty sure everyone agreed on that even youngster and "people who search for hacker OS on google"

Fabby

1:33 PM

Don't forget that they're called "script kiddies"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Kiwy How old are you?

(decade is good enough, please feel free not to answer)

Kiwy

@Fabby no problem with my age you could find it pretty easilly on the Internet.

I'm 29

Fabby

OK. kids nowadays do not remember anything because they're hooked up to the Internet all of the time, so any knowledge is just a google away.

Kiwy

but even as a kid when I saw something amazing such as a magic trick I never though that having special tool such as "magic" deck for example will make me a good magicians

Fabby

France's education system is better than most of the world...

Kiwy

Well I give a lot of credit to my parents as well who made me the way I am...
Someone AWESOME !

:D

Fabby

1:37 PM

:D :thumbsup: ;-)

Kiwy

AWESOME and humble

Fabby

:D

Stephen Kitt

Everything Is AWESOME!!! -- The LEGO® Movie -- Tegan and Sara feat. The Lonely Island

►

Kiwy

@StephenKitt OK thank you now I will have this Awesome song in the head for the rest of the day

I love this movie

it's an awesome one, never ending action and jokes

Stephen Kitt

I’m a SaaS provider

song as a service

Fabby

1:45 PM

:D

Kiwy

Such a nice job, I didn't know they were so open minded at redhat

Fabby

Are you kidding? They were the original Open Source guys!

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby Cygnus Solutions would argue with that

Fabby

All the other ones are just watery me-too's...

Stephen Kitt

Cygnus Solutions

Cygnus Solutions, originally Cygnus Support, was founded in 1989 by John Gilmore, Michael Tiemann and David Henkel-Wallace to provide commercial support for free software. Its tagline was: Making free software affordable. For years, employees of Cygnus Solutions were the maintainers of several key GNU software products, including the GNU Debugger and GNU Binutils (which included the GNU Assembler and Linker). It was also a major contributor to the GCC project and drove the change in the project's management from having a single gatekeeper to having an independent committee. Cygnus developed...

Fabby

1:50 PM

"On November 15, 1999, Cygnus Solutions announced its merger with Red Hat, and ceased to exist as a separate company in early 2000."

(but thanks for the historical reference: never heard of them except as the creators of CygWin, which I never liked:

I just installed the GNU 32-bit win-utils)

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby yup, and as a result Red Hat has some employees whose start date pre-dates the creation of Red Hat itself (Red Hat was incorporated a few years after Cygnus)

Fabby

You one of them?

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby heh, no, I joined Red Hat three years ago

Kiwy

@Fabby how do you know I'm from france ?

Ho it's written on my profile... guess it's easy to know

Fabby

Kiwy, France

5.6k 4 33 53

Kiwy

1:56 PM

that nice bronze linux badge need to became a golden one. gold is much nicer and pimp

Fabby

:-)

Kiwy

2:59 PM

estcequecestbientotleweekend.fr

Faheem Mitha

3:32 PM

@Fabby They were big players back in the day. If things had worked out differently, it could have been them purchasing Red Hat instead of the other way around. And in another alternate reality, they were the ones that created the free Unix-like kernel which took the world by storm.

William

4:17 PM

hello unix friends

someone here might be able to answer my question here askubuntu.com/questions/1073826/…

Rui F Ribeiro

5:35 PM

@StephenKitt I understand the point of view of many people that is not that friendly closing Kali questions as it is. On the other hand, maybe you want a balance between quality questiions and lazy questions... as for Kali, not sure wether there it is mr. robot, or more a nationalistic/patriotic thing of being an Indian/Asian part of the team that put it out together.

Or maybe both things.

@Kiwy C'est le week-end ! \o/

LOL

@StephenKitt I prefer the Debian model to RH...here now in the Corporate section RH/CentOS are king.

RedHat messed up big in RH 7.0....incompatible libraries/compilers/binaries

I jumped ship to Debian 3?

Faheem Mitha

@RuiFRibeiro "being an Indian/Asian part of the team that put it out together"? Are you talking about Kali?

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha yeah. wait.

@FaheemMitha bah. I was mixing up things. the guy is Israeli.

Jeff Schaller

5:55 PM

The Announcer badge should be labelled with an interrobang; I get these badges randomly and I have no idea what I did to deserve them.

I mean, apparently I shared a link, but it must have been a long time ago. I don't even have answers on most of them.

Stephen Kitt

6:09 PM

@RuiFRibeiro sure we need to find a balance, I agree 100%. My objection is that SE already has mechanisms for that. With the Kali dupe, we end up closing questions without explaining properly. When they’re not about Kali, bad questions are closed because they are unclear, or too broad, etc. If they are dupes, they get closed as such, but the OP gets an answer. For Kali questions we just say “get lost” while pretending to help.

Your FAQ answer to the Kali dupe is a step in the right direction but it’s too far down and users who need to read it won’t.

And hammers make it worse: they deny the possibility of an answer without votes. On other topics hammers work because the users who have them know their topics (as SE taxonomies) and know what dupes to use. That’s not the case on Kali (which has no user anywhere near hammer level).

Perhaps as a community we’ll end up deciding we won’t answer Kali questions, and if so, fine. But we haven’t had that discussion, and in the mean time users who want to answer Kali questions generally aren’t allowed to.

Oh and don’t get me started on using the Kali dupe when there are perfectly appropriate dupes which actually answer the question...

Rui F Ribeiro

6:36 PM

@StephenKitt Do not know what to say. Most of the Kali answers are not exactly....well...answerable.

And it is not because not knowing dupes...it is just often the quality of the questions do not justify it. Or some of the dupes are already on that broader question.

The fact is that we are being spammed with a lot of low quality Kali questions for some reason.

Interestingly enough, I think we are starting to attract some low quality programming questions because our community is so much more benevolent and small than SO.

Faheem Mitha

6:56 PM

@RuiFRibeiro I think Stephen's point is that even Kali users deserve to have their questions answered.

I've noticed people closing actual questions as dupes of Gilles generic "why is it all so hard" question.

That really isn't what dupes are.

I think Kali is unpopular enough here that nobody has really protested about it. I can't honestly say I care much myself.

Stephen Kitt

8:45 PM

@RuiFRibeiro please don’t take it personnally, I’m venting my frustration and it’s not aimed at you specifically, it’s about all of us.

The Kali situation is a complex one, and I also think it’s somewhat unfair that we end up dealing with all the poor questions from people who shouldn’t be using it in the first place.

My main concern is for the site as a whole, and I fear that the way we’re dealing with Kali questions (and I say “questions” intentionally, this is about questions rather than the people asking them) is affecting the atmosphere of the site as a whole.

Perhaps there are other factors at work and that, as you say, we are attracting poor quality questions in general.

I don’t have answers, only frustrations at this particular point in time.

I do think we would all benefit from sometimes considering how we’d treat questions if they didn’t mention Kali at all, or the fact that the person asking them is a newbie.

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha @StephenKitt The point is if Kali deserves answers, who is going to answer them.... As for the site, I think we still are more small and more friendly than other SE groups, and we are paying a price too...lots of answers converging here, from diagnosing dead USB/disks and now programming questions that would be immediatly closed in SO.

Stephen Kitt

@RuiFRibeiro right, we need to strike a balance — SO it too procedural, we’re not strict enough.

Re. “who is going to answer them”, by closing questions as dupes of an answer which doesn’t answer them, we deny the possibility for anyone interested to actually answer them, which I think is a shame.

Rui F Ribeiro

@StephenKitt ...comments still work...I have seen some ruckus of users, including the famous ajeh of we ignoring kali answers, but never seen an effort of those vocal group to answer those questions...it is always "YOU ought to answer them..."...

Stephen Kitt

9:02 PM

@RuiFRibeiro but that leads to people answering questions in comments, which we also want to avoid.

Look at AWK questions as an example: we get tons of fairly poor AWK questions, but they tend to attract answers in spite of their poor quality (except in egregious cases).

People attempt to answer unanswerable AWK questions, and others, but as soon as anyone mentions Kali it’s “boom, closed”.

Rui F Ribeiro

@StephenKitt Kali often look more brain farts than questions....I have answered good Kali questions.

Stephen Kitt

Some get re-opened, and I know you’re perfectly open to discussing that when you’re involved in closing them, so arguably the site mechanics work there...

Michael Homer

Stephen is being nice, but honestly, the people who VTC every Kali question as a duplicate of that once actually are the problem.

Stephen Kitt

@RuiFRibeiro yes, but so do questions on other topics, and somehow we’ve ended up concentrating on Kali.

And again, my focus isn’t on Kali here, it’s on the degrading atmosphere of the site as a whole.

On that note, it’s time for my bed, good night! And best wishes to everyone, I’m not trying to start a fight.

Michael Homer

It's only occasionally a good-faith suggestion. Mostly it's code for something I'm not allowed to say here, sometimes it's worse.

Faheem Mitha

9:07 PM

@RuiFRibeiro It's impossible to say when or even if someone will answer a given question on the site. That's nobody's responsibility.

Michael Homer

I posted a meta question about custom close reasons at one point that didn't go anywhere, but many of them were outright insulting and that's been going on for a long time.

Stephen Kitt

@MichaelHomer my thoughts exactly; and Rui has been trying to improve that by providing an answer which contains information and pointers, so kudos to him.

@MichaelHomer yes, we (as a site) seem to be becoming more intent on closing questions than answering them (although we still have a way to go before we’re as bad as SO), and I think that’s a real shame.

(And I’m aware I’m caricaturing, since the stats show we answer far more questions than we close, I think.)

Michael Homer

The Linux community as a whole is pretty toxic a lot of the time and some parts of the SE model exacerbate elements of that, here in particular

Faheem Mitha

Open questions aren't a problem in themselves. Some people seem to think they are.

It reminds me a little of the R Debian maintainer, who would immediately close every bug he didn't intend to fix. Which was most of them. Including upstream issues, I seem to recall. It was quite annoying.

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha Again, it depends on the open questions....

Faheem Mitha

9:11 PM

@RuiFRibeiro Again, closing questions as a dupe of something that doesn't answer the question isn't a solution. And in this case, there is no problem to solve in any case.

So a Kali question goes unanswered. So what?

@MichaelHomer You mean the Linux kernel people?

Michael Homer

I mean the user base

Faheem Mitha

@MichaelHomer You mean, like everyone? The community of people who use Linux? Like the people here?

Michael Homer

Especially the kernel, of course, and also in the programming & IT community more broadly to a slightly lesser extent

Yes

Faheem Mitha

@MichaelHomer I'm not sure I see that. For one thing, you're talking about a very large number of people.

Linux users are now a very large group. Nobody knows how large, of course.

Michael Homer

It shouldn't be the norm that people get insulted because they don't know how to do something, but it is, and that behaviour is tolerated.

Faheem Mitha

9:14 PM

@MichaelHomer I agree, of course. And not just Kali users.

Michael Homer

Yes Faheem, I meant literally everybody, of course that's a reasonable reading of what I wrote.

Faheem Mitha

@MichaelHomer Again, I don't see it.

Most Linux users aren't active online at all. They're only part of a community in a very nominal sense.

Michael Homer

It's a very broad problem. Here, Kali questioners have ended up in the acceptable-targets bucket

Rui F Ribeiro

It also depends on behaviour. We have people coming here with very lazy, questions, and people expecting that we work for them for free...or we have people hoping that we are enablers on them faking through their job...we also have very interesting people and questions.

Michael Homer

But questions about other things face similar issues, just less uniformly

For example, this is a successful close reason on the site: "it is not a legitimate question, it is a lazy moron's attempt to get the community to do their homework"

That's gratuitous and obvious, and it's still accepted

The lower-key things are pervasive, but just blend in with the noise

Faheem Mitha

9:18 PM

@RuiFRibeiro If you don't want to interact with a given user, nobody is forcing you to.

Michael Homer

Sometimes the questions are lazy, sometimes they are people just wanting their work done for them, sometimes they're all kinds of thing, and it's fine that they get closed as (real) duplicates, or as unclear or too broad, or whatever it is that applies. It's not ok that they are insulted and belittled

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha Oh, I do not when I do not want to, believe me. I ignore a lot of posts. I have never been here for help desk, not my motivation.

Faheem Mitha

I sometimes think people (particularly the higher rep users) feel some responsibility for the users who come here to get their questions answered.

Clearly, that's not the case.

And yes, all question/answer sites get rubbish questions. And answers too. At least SE has a mechanism to take care of them.

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha +- . We have some very vocal users asking their god given right to answers for themselves and others...

Faheem Mitha

Quora is not so blessed, for example.

@RuiFRibeiro Yes, and you get to ignore them. If they get too annoying, you can always ask a mod to intervene.

Rui F Ribeiro

9:23 PM

@FaheemMitha Yeah, I have started doing that. But often I just write a answer, and quickly delete it lol...it takes a lot of control not answering them, that just comes with age too.

Faheem Mitha

@RuiFRibeiro See my comments above, about ignoring stuff. I'm not sure what you mean by age.

In the past I've identified too strongly with whatever random stranger is asking a question. That's generally a bad idea.

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha I meant that in my age i ignore a lot of stuff, that when I was half this age I would have sent all of this people to some parts unknown and get banned

Faheem Mitha

For example, if a person you are trying to helps get obnoxious, it's both a duty and a pleasure to killfile them, to use a metaphor from an earlier era.

@RuiFRibeiro I see. You mean you would have reacted more strongly?

Michael Homer

Is there a way of ignoring a user? I didn't think there was, only tags

Rui F Ribeiro

@FaheemMitha I used to be very vocal with people, and not just online. Random people in the street, public transportation and supermarkets

Faheem Mitha

9:27 PM

@RuiFRibeiro I see.

@MichaelHomer Meaning, how do I stop this jerk from messaging me?

Nothing automated, as far as I am aware, but I think you can involve the mods.

Rui F Ribeiro

@MichaelHomer Now that is an interesting point. I would not mind a block user, or ignore questions from users with rep < 150

Faheem Mitha

But ignore I just meant that you stop replying to them. You'll still get their comments or whatever.

Michael Homer

@FaheemMitha Just hiding their questions (/answers?), the way ignoring a tag does

Faheem Mitha

A block feature might be useful, certainly.

We've had instances of people following other people around and making nuisances of themelves. Stalker-like behavior. Those people usually end up getting banned, at least temporarily.

Rui F Ribeiro

Hmmm, that means I can ignore the kali tag? lol

Faheem Mitha

9:29 PM

I've myself been harassed in a chat room for no reason. I left the room.

@MichaelHomer Doesn't hide comments, does it?

Michael Homer

@RuiFRibeiro Yes, go to the tag page or hover a tag and there's an "Ignore tag" option. You can choose in your settings whether they're hidden entirely or just greyed out

@FaheemMitha You wouldn't be getting comments if you hadn't seen the question in the first place to interact with it

In fact it's right in the sidebar now

Rui F Ribeiro

I have today a question of a guy that does not know what a route is, what a VPN does, the guy that gives him the VPN also does not know...and the question only deals with the symptoms. Depressing.

Faheem Mitha

@MichaelHomer Ah, good point.

Fabby

@JeffSchaller Did you include a link to another answer when answering just the bit that was not a duplicate? (I've done that and supposed (thought not 100% sure) that that was where these were coming from)

@FaheemMitha Because they're beginner's questions.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby That's not relevant, even if true.

The site doesn't discriminate against beginner questions. At least it's not supposed to.

Of course, one has to draw a line somewhere.

Fabby

9:39 PM

@FaheemMitha Hey, feel free to re-open all kali questions and answer them...

>:-) ;-) :-)

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby lol

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Thank you for the invitation, but no thank you.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha What's a killfile?

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Heh. A Usenet thing. Have you forgotten?

Fabby

Yes! Usenet! OMG!

Faheem Mitha

9:42 PM

Sic Transit Gloria.

Fabby

>:-)

Jeff Schaller

9:58 PM

@Fabby a good thought, and is probably right; it's just that these 25 visits must come over a period of time, so my initial "share" was likely many months ago, which is no good for my poor memory

I don't want to wake up Stephen, but I agree with his earlier comment; unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4640/…

Fabby

@JeffSchaller Same answer as to Faheem:

23 mins ago, by Fabby

@FaheemMitha Hey, feel free to re-open all kali questions and answer them...

:P ;-)

Rui F Ribeiro

Hmmm interesting idea....Ubuntu Kali for newbies

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro There's an Ubuntu PPA for that...

Rui F Ribeiro

lol

Fabby

(contains all Kali tools)

(never tried installing it, but I know it's out there!)

Rui F Ribeiro

10:06 PM

Ubuntu kali for real clueless newbies ;) What do you think?

Fabby

KaTooLin

Rui F Ribeiro

did not remember that

Fabby

If enough people are asking for it, a PPA will be created!

:D

Rui F Ribeiro

we have to tell those kids the uber cool thing to do is installing OpenBSD

Fabby

Arch!

(from source: at least they'll know something before installing KaTooLin)

Rui F Ribeiro

10:09 PM

gentoo

lol

I am partial to OpenBSD and even more after Arch was infected with systemd

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro You old fart, you! ;-) :D

I don't care: it's just unlearning some commands and learning a few new ones...

Rui F Ribeiro

Antix, OpenBSD and Mac OS here...

Fabby

MacOS: Urgh...

That's in my 'ignored' tags...

Rui F Ribeiro

bah, costs a lot

but much less problematic

my Lenovo with Antix is more unstable

I even had to write a patch for the mousepad

bah

Fabby

Less problematic compared to what? AIX on an IBM RS6000?

no way! ;-)

@RuiFRibeiro bows and shuffles out of the room backwards keeping modestly staring at the floor

;-)

Rui F Ribeiro

10:14 PM

lol

@Fabby unix.stackexchange.com/questions/467199/…

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Wow! I have the same problem with my keyboard backlights on my Acer Predator...

How about I buy you one to debug that for me?

>:-) ;-) :D

Rui F Ribeiro

lol

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Ah: you just took the latest kernel source and developed a patch, not submitted a patch to Linus...

Big difference! Entering room again...

;-) :D

Rui F Ribeiro

lol

@Fabby i do not have those kind of probs in the Mac

lol

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Nah, you have to wait for 7 years to buy a now MacBook Air!

(and let Apple do the debugging)

Rui F Ribeiro

10:23 PM

@Fabby M Air sucks.

I have got two pros

Fabby

I haven't bought anything Apple since the good Steve left the company...

Steve Wozniak

Stephen Gary Wozniak (; born on August 11, 1950), often referred to by the nickname Woz, is an American inventor, electronics engineer, programmer, philanthropist, and technology entrepreneur who co-founded Apple, Inc.. He and Apple co-founder Steve Jobs are widely recognized as pioneers of the personal computer revolution of the 1970s and 1980s. Wozniak designed and developed the Apple I in 1976, which became the computer that launched Apple when he and Jobs marketed it that same year. He primarily designed the Apple II in 1977, known as one of the first highly successful mass-produced mic...

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby granted. I just got my last pro because I had a very good deal in the last black friday

top of line mbook pro

Fabby

Now they're running on Intel, it more clearly shows Macs are overpriced.

You're better off buying Apple Stock than Apple products IMNSHO... :P

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby Do not get me started on that.

lol

Anyway, got also here a corporate Lenovo with Antix

A lenovo of mine with OpenBSD

and an old Asus with FreeBSD

Fabby

I've got a corporate Lenovo Thinkpad with Win10

Rui F Ribeiro

10:27 PM

It had Windows 10.... ;-P

Fabby

and a private Asus Predator with 2 NVMEs and 1 HDD dual boot Win10 and Ubuntu 16.04

Win10 is only to do:

1. updates (most of the time)

Rui F Ribeiro

I am the only one in our extended team running Linux at work

Fabby

2. Change my keyboard backlights

3. Do a meeting ~~now and then~~ once that doesn't support Linux.

Rui F Ribeiro

I got authorization to run Linux from day 0

I am talking with the Lync/"Skype" enterprise guys with Linux....

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro We can, in a VM or WSL...

Rui F Ribeiro

10:29 PM

WSL is shit.

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro It depends: it's better than the GNU Win64 utilities...

Rui F Ribeiro

I am talking with Lync in Linux and managed also to use the corporate VPN....

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro I understand. I didn't want the hassle:

Rui F Ribeiro

Also talking "Exchange"

Fabby

Work = Win10

Pleasure = Ubuntu...

Rui F Ribeiro

10:31 PM

I am used to Mac at work and going mad with Win10

changed to Antix

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Yeah, I know it's all possible and we have some people running like that, but I'm a PM and it's just too much of a hassle to get support.

Michael Homer

@JeffSchaller I have come around to thinking that supposedly canonical question is just outright abusive.

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Yeah, we can have that too...

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby I am the support ;-P

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro Local support or "all there is"?

@MichaelHomer Is it?

That answer tells people: please don't use Kali unless from a USB stick.

if used from a USB stick and you're trying to do something intelligent, you'll get intelligent answers.

Rui F Ribeiro

10:33 PM

@Fabby Nah, support to a specific part of the business....

Linux

Linux support

Fabby

@MichaelHomer But if you see a question "I'm trying to triple boot Win10, Mint and Kali, BUT ..." you just know there's something wrong...

@RuiFRibeiro Impressed.

What company? (if not too indiscrete)

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby MEO/PT/Altice...our biggest ISP here.

Michael Homer

It virtually never answers the question it's a supposed duplicate of and it's wilfully, cartoonishly, insultingly caricatured.

Fabby

SMOKE! BRB...

Michael Homer

It's just a way of saying something you wouldn't be allowed to put in a comment, mediated by the system.

Fabby

10:40 PM

@MichaelHomer It does in most cases: it's not the bag of cement and the bricks and the trowel that make you a stonemason, nor does Kali make you a H@çk3r...

and if you insist on running Kali: for god's sake: run it from an ISO or a USB sick.

actually... *Does the highest upvoted answer say that?

lemme check

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby check my answer.

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro an edit and an upvote! :p

Michael Homer

@Fabby No, it doesn't.

Fabby

@MichaelHomer Yes, it makes you a hacker or no, it doesn't answer 90% of the questions?

Michael Homer

It doesn't answer any of the questions because the questions are never "why is it hard", they are "how do I X?".

The questions might be unclear, they might be too broad, they're often legitimate duplicates of on-topic questions with actual answers, but they're not duplicates of that.

Jeff Schaller

10:50 PM

@Fabby I pay attention to the review queues, including the reopen one. I would vote to reopen a kali question — any question— that I thought was answerable. I, myself, don’t have any expertise in Kali so I’m not out there proactively casting reopen votes. Now that I write all this, I can’t recall many Kali questions in the reopen queue.

Michael Homer

At best, it's a helpful see-also, and not a duplicate; at worst, it's just people getting off on the superiority they feel from belittling people they think are beneath them.

How strange that upon receiving that welcome they don't go on to edit their question to add details such that it ends up in the reopen queue, eh.

Fabby

I'm a Joe Schmuck here on U&L but once I will be working the queues, I'd vote to reopen a Kali question as well if well-funded.

Jeff Schaller

Certainly the (unspoken) bar for that tag is much higher.

Faheem Mitha

@JeffSchaller People don't vote to reopen Kali questions, because they think Kali users are stupid and ugly (paraphrasing Linus Torvalds). It's a Romany type situtation, really.

If it isn't already clear, I agree with Jeff, Stephen, and Michael. FWIW.

Jeff Schaller

There’s not a very large population of U&L users, and an even smaller group of reviewers, so I guess I’m not surprised that Kali questions that get closed, stay closed.

Faheem Mitha

10:56 PM

Not that I feel any love for Kali users. But they've got as much a right to do their thing as anyone else.

Jeff Schaller

Meant to say (active) U&L users

Fabby

All you are higher-rated users than me here: go dig around the kali tag and leave a nice bold comment that you want to reopen and answer one of them, and I'm pretty sure they'll get reopened...

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby I also do not die particularly of love of the type of questions that appear with that tag

Jeff Schaller

You’re assuming that the question is answerable as-is (generally) and that I (personally) want to answer them :)

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby seen your edit lol

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