/dev/chat

terdon

7:06 PM

@Ramesh Damn, sorry, that was supposed to ping AvinashRaj.

Ramesh

No issues :)

Do Indian names confuse you a lot? :P

terdon

@Ramesh Apparently :(

Ramesh

ha, I should change my screen name to Eric Cartman then. :)

casey

7:56 PM

and another disk bites the dust... but at least this time mdadm is configured properly to email me about it

Basj

Hi! Do you know about htaccess RewriteRule?

I have 2 RewriteRule conditions, and I would like to add a "fallback", if none of these conditions were satisfied

slm

@casey hey mines been emailing me this wk too. I just got the replacement in the mail

meda

how can I upgrade an existing PHP version

from source

do I have to delete

the old version first

slm

8:11 PM

@meda ask on main site

meda

ok

casey

@slm my replacement should be here today.

2 disks from the same lot, consumer variants installed in june 2011, run continuously since then. One failed a few months ago and one this week.

fyi if anyone else is a student, github is offering "developer packs" that among other things includes a $100 credit on digital ocean

education.github.com/pack

Ramesh

Is ip route the widely used tool to set/configure network routes?

Or there is some other newer tool?

slm

I've been failing the bad disk and having it rejoin, and then it's fine

but I'll still add this one and then fail the failing disk and remove it

casey

@Ramesh it depends on who you ask, a lot of guides still use the old tools, but ip is the current way to do it afaik

@slm mine is marked failed on 2 out of 4 of its partitions and working on the other 2

slm

8:25 PM

@Ramesh - that's what patrick was giving me a hard time about yesterday

I mentioned ifconfig and from this point forward it should be all ip tools when you talk that stuff

casey

the old tools being ifconfig, route, etc

Ramesh

@slm I just saw there is no question about ip rules and stuffs.

slm

yeah

Ramesh

At least not much as far as I saw.

slm

if you look at the wikipedia page they show the mapping of old to knew tools

Iproute2

iproute2 is a collection of user-space utilities used to communicate with various Linux kernel components over the netlink protocol. More specifically, the iproute2 utilities are used for controlling TCP and UDP IP networking and traffic control in the Linux kernel, in both IPv4 and IPv6 networks, as well as for configuring the device drivers for network interface controllers (NICs) and wireless network interface controllers (WNICs). As of December 2013, iproute2 is maintained by Stephen Hemminger. The original author, Alexey Kuznetsov, was responsible for the Quality of Service (QoS) implementation...

Ramesh

8:27 PM

And if anyone still interested in IP tools, this tutorial is good. I just saw it.

slm

go nuts

yeah I've seen that. My problem is that those stupid old tool names are ingrained into my brain

there's also more features in iproute2 which I miss out on by not switching

Ramesh

@slm, so ip is new right?

casey

mine too. and its shocking to me when I notice how long they've been effectively abandoned in deveopment

Ramesh

And you want to use ifconfig and older tools?

slm

yeah new like 5-10 yrs ago

it's been slow to adopt

casey

8:29 PM

i have a bias toward liking the output of ifconfig over that of ip addr show

slm

it's the same thing with dig and nslookup

me too

Ramesh

I am entirely new and so I have no problem :)

slm

I just pained it today. How is ip addr show better than ifconfig -a?

yeah switch and don't get caught in my hang ups

Gilles

@slm it isn't

slm

exactly

Ramesh

8:30 PM

Well, I just put this one.

slm

so I continue to use them but it's best to switch over

Gilles

@slm why? I'll switch when I find a good reason to switch

casey

I found setting up my 6rd tunnel was pretty straighforward with iproute2, though its been a long time since I was setting up ip tunnels with the old tools to compare ease of use

Ramesh

@slm, I wanted to post a Q & A :)

slm

@Gilles true, it's helpful to not have to jump around b/w tools

@Ramesh You can still do it, I can delete my A if you want

Ramesh

8:43 PM

@slm No. Your answer explains on how to see the table entries as well. It was not explained in the link.

slm

@Ramesh - usually I write up both before I post

Ramesh

@slm No issues. I learnt on how to check the table as well :)

slm

sorry I won't A yours until you tell me so

I'm an answer whore

Patrick explained all that to me yesterday

Ramesh

@slm, your way of answering is the best way to understand something rather than me copy pasting contents from that link.

I want you to elaborate more on the answer so that it will be informational to us :)

Ok, I see this interesting information from the link that I provided.

slm

thanks that's the nicest compliment I've gotten

Ramesh

8:50 PM

Really, for historical reasons ip rule add does not require a priority value and allows them to be non-unique. If the user does not supplied a priority, it is selected by the kernel. If the user creates a rule with a priority value that already exists, the kernel does not reject the request. It adds te new rule before all old rules of the same priority. It is mistake in design, nomore. And it will be fixed one day, so do not rely on this feature. Use explicit priorities.

Is the above info true?

Faheem Mitha

this one is up to 4 reopen votes:

3

Q: Why didn't Gnu Info succeed man?

As per my knowledge/understanding both help and man came at the same time or have very little time difference between them. Then GNU Info came in and from what I have seen is much more verbose, much more detailed and arguably much better than what man is. Many entries even today in man are crypti...

Ramesh

@slm, reg my last comment can I add it to the existing question?

Or what do you suggest?

slm

sure go for it

let me just add some refs

give me 1 min

all set

meda

if a script output a long text

how to see it

I use more fileToView usually

but how to do it with php

Ramesh

@meda less?

meda

8:58 PM

more php test.php

Gilles

@FaheemMitha 5

meda

ramesh wat is the full command

slm

@Ramesh - I'm all set with it

Ramesh

php test.php | less

slm

I can make it a CW if you want

Ramesh

8:58 PM

Not sure if it will work.

slm

make a new one then it's OK to have multiples if they're complimentary

Ramesh

@slm probably we need some explanation on user created policies and how the priority for the same will be set.

Let it be your answer :)

slm

You could build off of what I said and create an A that extends, talking about purely user created policies

that will keep things in 2 "camps" the basics in mine, and the user created policies in another?

Ramesh

@slm, probably I could add those details in your answer itself if you don't mind.

However, I need some expert to provide comments on this.

Really, for historical reasons ip rule add does not require a priority value and allows them to be non-unique. If the user does not supplied a priority, it is selected by the kernel. If the user creates a rule with a priority value that already exists, the kernel does not reject the request. It adds te new rule before all old rules of the same priority. It is mistake in design, nomore. And it will be fixed one day, so do not rely on this feature. Use explicit priorities.

@meda php test.php | less is the command.

I tested it and it seems to work.

slm

that reads correctly to me as I understand it from reading that pdf and the man pages @Ramesh

Faheem Mitha

9:13 PM

@Gilles Thanks.

Ramesh

@slm I am not following you.

Faheem Mitha

I'm requesting feedback about whether this is a reasonable question. I have a project source which is a git repos containing git submodules. I did find github.com/meitar/git-archive-all.sh but it seems less than ideal. Should I post about the problem here? Should I try to improve the shell script (which seem a bit buggy and over-complicated) or should i go for a DIY solution?

For reference, the source is github.com/drmeister/clasp

slm

@FaheemMitha since it's on github it's trivial to fork it. I might pose the Q to them via GH issue, if they are unwilling then fork it and do what you want. Then give them a pull request when your done. If they want it they can merge it, if not then your shown via GH to be a fork and other may fork from you or them

I've done a number of fork and fixes and filed PR's w/ projects and it's extremely painless

Faheem Mitha

@slm I think you misunderstood the question.

And you didn't understand it because I wrote it very badly. Sigh.

Sorry, just woke up. Apparently not fully awake yet.

slm

rephrase it, I'm stepping out for a bit

Ramesh

9:22 PM

@FaheemMitha It's 3.00 right? Are you an owl?

Faheem Mitha

Let me try again. There is a project source which is a git repos containing git submodules. This isn't my project. it is github.com/drmeister/clasp. I'm trying to set up some Debian packaging for this. An early step in this is creating a suitable orig tarball. I was trying to use git archive (which is kind of yucky), but it only includes the main repos, not the submodules. So, how do I do that?

I did find github.com/meitar/git-archive-all.sh but it is a little bit buggy and overcomplicated. So, should I post about this? If so, should I (a) ask for improvements to this script (b) ask about new solutions? Or should I just shut up and write my own approach? I find git kinda icky and annoying, so not enthusiastic.

@Ramesh It is indeed. I just woke up. I have a problem sleeping at night. Went to sleep around 10.30 pm.

I see I didn't post a proper link for that project - it is github.com/drmeister/clasp

@slm actually, i didn't so much ask the question badly as not really ask it at all. It was like writing a story with just the beginning and the end.

Tyler Maginnis

@MillieSmith How is your SlackWare project going?

Millie Smith

9:59 PM

I think I'm getting somewhere @TylerMaginnis

Tyler Maginnis

That's great. Let me know if ya have any questions.

Millie Smith

after much fiddling around, i found a command "ROOT=/mnt/sda5 installpkg lilo*txz"

and i had to install one more as well, can't remember what it was

but finally i could chroot into the system and run liloconfig

but that did nothing

it just exited silently

so i wrote the lilo.conf file myself

and ran lilo

and it boots but kernel panics 3 seconds later

but i think it's because i used the generic kernel

i'm going to switch to huge to verify it and then if that works, i'll go back to generic when i have the time

i'll be able to try a couple things in a couple hours from now

danke :)

Tyler Maginnis

sure, sure. best luck. godspeed.

Millie Smith

10:38 PM

i'm up and running @TylerMaginnis :)

Tyler Maginnis

good job!

enjoy your new environment. I am running on Debian Unstable with Ratpoison.

Ratpoison's very nice minimal W/M. I also multiplex terminals with screen, and multiplex editors with Vim.. @MillieSmith

Hotkeys all around for everything.

Patrick

0

Q: Which command has the biggest manual?

I use man pages a lot but sometimes it is hard to find what you need if there are hundreds of lines in the manual. I wonder which command has the biggest manual?

man

wat?

i want to vote to close, but I have no clue where to even go with that

terdon

@Patrick May as well answer. It's a silly question but it is answerable.

Patrick

that's debatable. I could create a command and a man page to go with, and dump the english dictionary into it.

terdon

@Patrick Ah, point. I meant that I can tell you which is the longest I have on my system but you're quite right, that doesn't really answer the question.

Patrick

10:48 PM

My main "wat?" about that question is what does his first sentence have to do with the question?

Gilles

% print -rl /usr/share/man/man1/*(-OL[1,10])
/usr/share/man/man1/perltoc.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/gcc.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/g++.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/c++.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/gcc-4.7.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/cc.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/g++-4.7.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/gcc-4.6.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/g++-4.6.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/fvwm2.1.gz

Patrick

And then why would that ever help anyone?

Gilles

so assuming that compression reflects information content, the man page with the most information is perltoc

terdon

@Patrick That, I have no idea.

@Gilles Well, there's a surprise.

Gilles

and if you consider that perltoc is really just one part of the perl manual, I think perl wins hands down

Patrick

10:50 PM

@Gilles Hrm, actually my zshall(1) is 7k lines longer than my perltoc(1)

Millie Smith

thanks! i really want to multiplex my terminals. I thought there was a major program for it @TylerMaginnis

i can't think of the name. i think it was terminator

ratpoison sounds very familiar

Braiam

0

Q: How to find the command with the biggest manual?

I use man pages a lot but sometimes it is hard to find what you need if there are hundreds of lines in the manual. I how I can find the one that has the biggest manual?

man

Millie Smith

i'm going with fluxbox, because i'm bored of xfce and i hate gnome and kde

Gilles

@Patrick Ah, yes, because zshall.1 uses include directives

But if you take zshall you should take the whole set of perl man pages, not just the table of content

Millie Smith

what is this? fluxbox is like an empty whiteboard

i like it

Gilles

10:53 PM

all 192 man pages that ship with perl, compared with zsh's piddly 19

Braiam

I would just check the size of any -doc package in Debian

Gilles

@Gilles: Never mind. I had some brain strain when I asked the questions. — Tim 1 min ago

Braiam

see the bright side... at least he recognize it

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam lol

Interesting article - jakevdp.github.io/blog/2014/08/22/hacking-academia

slm

11:13 PM

@Patrick It's a stupid Q that should've been closed.

Gilles

@slm the motivation is a bit silly but the question is sound

slm

I don't want to be run out of town for closing another Q that jimmi has answered though. You guys have close votes, use em!

I left it for everyone else to decide

Braiam

anyone can explain me the info tag, now?

terdon

@slm Coward.

Gilles

@slm I don't see any reason to vote to close

Patrick

11:19 PM

@Braiam I think you're right to remove it. It's a similar subject, but not related to what was asked.

slm

@Gilles yup, that's why I didn't touch it

terdon

@Patrick Why? The question is clearly about info and man. Why not tag it as such?

@Braiam? ^

Patrick

@terdon The question asked about man, not info

slm

@terdon I don't need any more stalkers

terdon

@Patrick Argh, never mind, I was thinking of the man vs info question.

@Braiam ditto.

Braiam

11:50 PM

@terdon which one?

terdon

5

Q: Why didn't GNU Info succeed man?

As per my knowledge/understanding both help and man came at the same time or have very little time difference between them. Then GNU Info came in and from what I have seen is much more verbose, much more detailed and arguably much better than what man is. Many entries even today in man are crypti...

man history gnu info

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Ironically, it is possible this question won't get any reasonable answers. It is actually quite a difficult question to answer; you'd have to know the history.

Hey, we should get Stallman to answer it. He's certainly in a good position to do so. :-)

terdon

@FaheemMitha I think it's a horrible question, opinion based and unanswerable.

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