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9:06 AM
(“Looks OK” of course because it attempts to answer the Q.)
9:21 AM
9:31 AM
I wonder what the thought process is — “here’s this year-old question, with decent answers already, hold my beer, I want more downvotes!”
I'd guess the main point is to test oneself. Though, then, one may wonder why both direct (comments) and indirect feedback (other answers) seems not to be taken into account that much.
@fra-san right, that occurred to me too, and if so then opening one’s efforts to public scrutiny is laudable, but as you say I’d expect some level of reaction to comments.
10:09 AM
@StephenKitt speaking of holding one's beer: How do I delete a Git branch locally and remotely?: 2.5 pages of answers out of 4 deleted
10:37 AM
@StephenKitt Which is sad, given the (IMO) great opportunity this site's community gives those that approach questions as learners -- the chance to be reviewed by competent people.
This is, at least, a good part in my own experience.
@fra-san yup, I learnt a bunch of stuff (and still do) from edits made to my answers by Gilles, Stéphane & co
"the fastest way to find out how to do something is to post a wrong way to do the same thing"
11:01 AM
@AndrasDeak For Mercurial (with Evolve) one does hg prune. No need for a question, or answers.
Though technically it does not delete it. Just hides it.
Before Evolve, there were a variety of awful options, namely mercurial-scm.org/wiki/PruningDeadBranches
That's for named branches.
@AndrasDeak That only works if one is willing and able to actually learn from the feedback.
11:24 AM
Unsafe tl;dr edit: unix.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/376718 (I should have “reject and edit”ed...)
11:45 AM
@StephenKitt Move the edit to the end of the post and drop "safely"?
@Kusalananda that would work, yes!
12:06 PM
Does anyone know a slick way to take the average of multiple runs of a script with manually scripting it?
@Kusalananda who said anything about learning? ;)
time doesn't seem to offer anything like that.
Sorry, that should have read "without manually scripting it".
@Faheem time zsh -c 'repeat 3 ./script' would be my first hack; (well, my first was zsh time repeat 3 ./script but that didn't work)
woops, wrong reply
@JeffSchaller That doesn't take an average though. Also, that counts as manual.
Is zsh necessary?
@FaheemMitha well, you divide the result by 3, of course. I used zsh for repeat; otherwise, a(nother) manual for loop
12:11 PM
@FaheemMitha you could always type the command with your nose if you really don’t want to use your hands ;-)
@JeffSchaller Sure, but I don't want to hardwire the repeat number in there. And zsh has a repeat command which bash doesn't?
@StephenKitt Still counts as manual. Just more awkward.
Clearly bash should get a repeat command too. One should keep up with Joneses.
Wasn't there a YouTube video with ?Douglas McElroy? using foot pedals as input?
@FaheemMitha how do you "average multiple runs" if you don't know how many runs you want?
@FaheemMitha not really, “manual” = “performed with the hands”
@JeffSchaller I’ve seen people using foot pedals, but a video with Doug McIlroy doesn’t ring any bells
@JeffSchaller That's a good point. Perhaps set a variable somewhere. Or let the program decide by the alignment of the stars.
@StephenKitt Yes, I realise there is an etymology. But I thought everyone ignored etymology these days. Apparently it's only for stick-in-the-muds.
here I go through 14 pages of /dev/chat search history to see if the bells are real
12:18 PM
I'm sure mercurial could figure out the count itself
@AndrasDeak Mercurial is a version control system, so no.
@FaheemMitha some words lose their original meaning, but “manual” hasn’t
@StephenKitt Which I approve of.
I've installed docker desktop for mac v3.3.3 at least 5 times now and it keeps asking me to update. I wonder if that means I have v15.15.15
12:25 PM
version 3↑3↑3
well, I've found no evidence that my memory is correct, so I'll just be over in this corner muttering to myself!
@jesse_b the ability to update comes in v3.3.4
@JeffSchaller hah
That actually happened with VLC media player recently
A recent version apparently introduced a bug that broke the updater so if you want to update from that version to the next you have to actually install the new version separately
May 10 '19 at 16:30, by Stephen Kitt
perhaps related
@AndrasDeak nice sleuthing! You might have saved my sanity! Also:
May 10 '19 at 16:31, by terdon
maybe I didn't make it up out of thin air
12:49 PM
@FaheemMitha I've written a little shell function that will take a command and a number of repetitions as input, then it will run the command as many times as you tell it and report the average time it took. Is that the sort of thing you want?
timethis ()
    for com in "$@";
        echo "COMMAND: $com ";
        while [[ $c -lt $max ]]; do
            let c++;
            ( time -p eval "$com" ) 2>&1 | grep --color -oP 'real.*?\K[\d\.]+';
        done | awk -vm=$max '{k+=$1}END{print (k/m)}';
It's not perfect, it fails for some particularly complex input commands but works fine in most cases.
@terdon Thank you. I was hoping there was a magic program somewhere that did that automatically, and many other things beside. But probably it does not exist.
$ timethis 4 "seq 1 100000000 > /dev/null"
COMMAND: seq 1 100000000 > /dev/null
@terdon Yes, I see.
It seems more complex than I would have expected. What's the grep and awk stuff?
or timethis 4 rm -rf some_important_directory :-P
@StephenKitt obviously a better example, yes
12:52 PM
@terdon with a rather large variance
@FaheemMitha The grep extracts the "real" time taken from the output of the time command and the awk just gets the average.
@terdon I see.
I've saved it. I'll give it a try later. Thanks.
I suggest adding a usage/help thingy.
@FaheemMitha patches welcome, I suspect ;-)
I suspect my shell style would be considered sub-par.
my first patch would be s/--color// :)
awk doesn't see color
1:02 PM
@JeffSchaller does it see dead people?
I would drop the grep entirely
@StephenKitt awk may be awesome, but I don't know if it has a sixth sense
@StephenKitt maybe even get fancy and move stderr to a different file descriptor, to be picked up later by the awk?
timethis 1 "echo real 1000.00" also seems to be problematic :-)
count on U&L to find the edge cases :)
1:57 PM
@JeffSchaller no idea why that's there. I suspect I had just used grep when writing this, but my grep is aliased to grep --color=always so when I printed type timethis I got it expanded?
yep, I don't have the --color in my .bashrc, that's just output by type
wow that’s an interesting side-effect
@terdon your editor probably added it ;)
@StephenKitt eh, it also expands for foo; do to for foo in "$@". Here's an image showing my bashrc and the output of type
@terdon and adds a bunch of semi-colons
2:01 PM
huh, yes.
apparently "For each name, indicate how it would be interpreted if used as a command name." means expands aliases
that’s because functions store the definition of the aliases at the time they were declared
2:36 PM
@AndrasDeak yes, but not always here on SE : )
@Kusalananda that xe most of the times doesn't wants to learn
if it was SO, now xe was banned from long long time ago, but I'm serious how xe is still not banned
I remember one time I posted a question on SO ~8 years ago as my first post and I got 25+ downvotes in just a week and then banned from asking a new question
now I'm looking for that my question but I never found it, because after that I request for account deletion and never back for some months
I never forgot those days :D
maybe someone with 10K+ rep can find my that question?
then lets laugh together on that.
@StephenKitt Ohh, I approved that, but yes it's not safe when one wants to keep the original copy
@αғsнιη no, it’s not safe because errors will result in losing everything
same applies to the sed, '-i' option for example?
or sed will take care of the original file if any error happened?
@αғsнιη it seems to only replace the original file if processing completes successfully
what may cause sed cannot process a file successfully?
can you give an example to test?
@StephenKitt I know that it writes to temp file and based on what you said, sed will only do mv tempfile originalfile if processing was successful, so how we can test a case that make sed fail for processing?
2:52 PM
@αғsнιη for example if it runs out of disk space
@StephenKitt this one is not testable, as when trying to process the original file and there was not enough space even that temporary file cannot be created successfully
Is there another case that will cause sed fail on processing? I mean for example in middle of the processing something went wrong not systematically or resource, just for sed that unable to continue processing?
3:32 PM
@αғsнιη I can’t think of one
@StephenKitt hold my beer
@JeffSchaller if it’s good I might quaff it instead
probably for the best; otherwise I might end up writing something like unix.stackexchange.com/a/436103/117549 again :)
@Matt It's kinda the point. Sorting anything with sed is ridiculous, which is why it's an interesting challenge. — Kusalananda ♦ Apr 7 '18 at 7:23
says it all
that’s the mark of a successful career in IT: the level of ridiculousness is monotonically increasing
love the fine line -- by day, I say my job is to increase the levels of sanity around our systems. by night, I make UNIX tools do unusual things
3:37 PM
“increase the levels of sanity around our systems” — thankfully, no promises on what’s in the systems
/me shuffles off into the distance, cackling maniacally and drinking all of Jeff’s beer
this is where Jeff mentions in passing that he only buys IPA
or better yet, that he brews his own IPA
oh the smell of a security report based on a two-year-old dump of a project
IPA means "I'd Prefer to Abstain" - not my favorite flavor
@JeffSchaller ah I like that expansion!
I haven't had beer in months and bought a 6 pack the other day, I got full after 1 lol, couldn't even finish my dinner
A 6-pack will last me several months, yep :)
@jesse_b I buy 6-packs too
3:40 PM
Now recommending beer for diets
but 6-packs of 75cL bottles
I got a 55 gallon drum of whisky from costco the other day
3:41 PM
I think you meant to say "moonshine"?
@jesse_b aka a barrel
Heh naw it's probably only like a liter or something but the bottle just looks huge compared to a "normal" bottle of whisky
maybe 1.25L
@StephenKitt "AROMAS: Whisky, noix, banane" --> smells like whisky, nuts, and banana?!?
@JeffSchaller yeah I’m not convinced by the banana claim, but I really like it
3:44 PM
@JeffSchaller interestingly thats how my office smells right now :/
@jesse_b well, your 55 gallon drum and your coworker's leftover bananas probably account for most of it. The rest, well :)
@JeffSchaller I think someone was trying to recreate Donkey Kong
@StephenKitt you'd have to be nuts to try that!
3:46 PM
@jesse_b I have never had a beer, so you believe?
@αғsнιη sounds like a poem, I don't understand?
yes, it's true thing
I never had drunk
αғsнιη does not grieve // they have never had a beer // do you so believe?
best haiku I could come up with on the spot
actually pretty good
"so you believe" just sounds like one of those phrases like "cellar door"
3:52 PM
but I want test so
I'm starting to wonder if Stephen and I are twins separated at birth (and a body of water or two); sweeter drinks are what I've landed on. There's an apple pie whisky I've found and enjoy (in moderation) :)
αғsнιη's English is better than any of my second languages
you are kidding
I know how to ask where the bathroom is in Spanish so me too
I'm assuming that English is not your first language?
no, it's not
it's my third language
3:54 PM
then it's a fact that your English is better than my second language
my mother tongue is Turkish
@JeffSchaller yes, my favourite whisky is quite sweet (Tobermory), but I also like peaty whiskies; what I don’t like in a drink is bitterness
That stuff has a sweetness to it, really good IMO
our country lang is persian, and I just know very little about English like @jesse_b said I know how to ask where the bathroom is in English 😂
@αғsнιη Really? Not Persian?
3:56 PM
@StephenKitt this is getting dangerous; now you mention a place that I could (theoretically) drive to :)
@terdon no, persian is my second language
Huh. So you weren't born in Iran?
no, I was born in Iran
when computer people answer questions :D
@JeffSchaller ah, not Tobermory in Canada, Tobermory on the Isle of Mull
3:57 PM
donde estas el bano numbero dos andelas
@StephenKitt curse you, "helpful" Google! Is that the place where you're a lord of 1 sqft of land?
but my mother tongue is Turkish + I also know Azerbaijan language
so totally I know 4 langs
@JeffSchaller heh, that’s Laphroaig on Islay: medium.com/whisky-party/…
@αғsнιη plus awk -- you seem pretty fluent in that, too :)
I speak fluent American and Canadian. I can understand British but don't speak it very well
3:59 PM
how do you ask where the bathroom is in AWK?
@JeffSchaller huhaha, the last one
@αғsнιη so you grew up in a part of Iran that speaks Turkish, or just in a family that spoke Turkish? I am just wondering if there is a significant Turkish-speaking population in Iran (which seems likely) or if it was just your family who happened to be from Turkey.
@StephenKitt ahh, went difficult
@StephenKitt cat /dev/random | awk 'END { print; }'
@terdon grew up in a part of Iran that speaks Turkish
@JeffSchaller I would not ask AWK for that, when there is a proper place "wc" for it 😂😂
4:06 PM
@αғsнιη Ah, which presumably explains the Azerbaijan language as well, right?
@jesse_b what is the best beer brand that I can buy for my testing?
@αғsнιη No such thing as "best", it is 100% a question of personal taste.
@terdon they are almost same, around 70~
@αғsнιη My favorite beer is heineken but I'm not a big beer drinker so my advice wouldn't be best
@terdon really?
4:09 PM
Yeah there definitely is no best but there is certainly bad
Yes. It's like asking what is the best ice cream flavor or the best Linux distribution :)
Mostly anything with natural or IPA on the label
Thank you for proving my point!
And this just proves the point ;-)
@terdon good answer :D
4:10 PM
@αғsнιη basically Jesse likes beers I hate
I said IPA is bad?
For clarity, @αғsнιη, I consider most of what @jesse_b calls "good beer" as "bad beer" and I suspect @jesse_b would call all of my "good beers" bad.
so is natural ice and natural light ;)
@jesse_b oh sorry, I hadn’t connected the two chat messages above
For some reason Jesse likes to drink tasteless things that are very close to water. Nobody's perfect.
4:11 PM
While I don't like IPAs I certainly wouldn't call them tasteless
I love IPA, so to each their own.
They taste like shoving a handful of hops in your mouth
@terdon ahhhh
@jesse_b Exactly, tasteless is the stuff you like. The cheap mass produced lagers :P
yeah Heineken ...
mind you when a drink is chilled enough you can hardly taste it anyway
so I can understand why so many people like drinking a cold Heineken or Coor’s
basically @αғsнιη you need to taste a bunch of different beers to see which style of beer you like, then hone in
“you need” as in “if you want to find a beer you like”, I’m not saying anyone needs to drink beer
4:14 PM
and ensure you taste them all one right after the other
or anything else apart from water
I remember I had beer more than 20 years ago under 18, is it allowed there in your countries?
@jesse_b exactly, mixed in with shots of tequila
@αғsнιη you can’t buy alcohol if you’re under 18 where I live, but you can drink it
I picked up a related quote the other day: "pour that beer in a glass. Bad beer needs all the help it can get, and good beer deserves it"
And don't forget, @αғsнιη, Jesse's advice is not always quite realistic.
Apr 7 at 19:06, by jesse_b
@terdon I've been shooting myself with smaller caliber guns to build up an immunity to the larger ones
That, for instance, will most likely not work.
4:15 PM
ah yes I’ve been meaning to ask @jesse_b how that’s going
I mean it works for bees
@terdon all the way up until the last one
@StephenKitt 😂😂
@terdon I don't think you have to say most likely there :p
maybe the lead poisoning explains why jesse_b likes IPA's
I don't like IPAs!
4:17 PM
@αғsнιη in the 50s, schools used to serve wine to kids at lunchtime
@jesse_b oh my bad; you said that & I missed it
@terdon will try some maybe within this year, I really don't want leave this f*** world without testing it at least
(I live in France)
Apparently there is a federal law in the US that allows parents to give their children alcohol at any age they feel appropriate
4:18 PM
@jesse_b Hey, I'm a trained scientist! I need empirical evidence! :P
@terdon I think there is plenty of data out there already
Although 50 cent was shot 9 times and he seems stronger than ever
Egad, I hope not. Or some folks are owned a backlog of Darwin Awards.
@jesse_b I first tried wine as a very young child. Probably under 10: my grandfather would put a tiny bit of wine and a lot of water so I could toast with the family. Never anywhere near enough for any intoxicating effect, of course, just barely enough to get an idea of the taste.
I searched heineken, and that seems alcohol less?
Most importantly, that did a great job of demystifying alcohol so I never went through a teenage binge drinking phase.
4:21 PM
@αғsнιη They might have one with no alcohol, but normal heineken has alcohol.
(just no discernable taste, character or any compelling reason to consume it, but that's personal taste)
No reason to consume it other than it tastes like the sweet glorious nectar of the gods
so beers with alcohol has no any taste?
my brother is saying do not take alcohol based beers
I also agree with him, alcohol is not the thing I expect to taste it
natural beer is the one I want to have
anyone have any portable solar panel recommendations? I want to get one that I can bring on camping trips what for charging phones
it costs $450 for 6packs
what is the price there?
one month of my salary
@αғsнιη Imported beer is normally around $8, domestic can be as low as $3.99
4:27 PM
@αғsнιη natural beers have alcohol, it is a natural byproduct of the way they are produced. So your "normal" beer will always have alcohol, they don't add it as an extra step.
some I see they mix chemical alcohol, that's what my brother deny me from drinking
@αғsнιη Maybe if they consider four loko a beer
ahh, no, $180, 6 bottles 🍾
@αғsнιη Normally there is no need. Alcohol is a product of fermentation.
The process of fermentation in winemaking turns grape juice into an alcoholic beverage. During fermentation, yeasts transform sugars present in the juice into ethanol and carbon dioxide (as a by-product). In winemaking, the temperature and speed of fermentation are important considerations as well as the levels of oxygen present in the must at the start of the fermentation. The risk of stuck fermentation and the development of several wine faults can also occur during this stage, which can last anywhere from 5 to 14 days for primary fermentation and potentially another 5 to 10 days for a secondary...
@terdon A friend of mine got kicked out of afghanistan for making pruno lol
4:31 PM
@terdon in Iran they do
I heard they do
and even in some cases found that they mix methanol or ethanol
or some alcohol that uses in hospital
I would imagine alcohol is pretty rare in Iran
and even cannot easily buy beer
I mean you can buy from market or any places outside
Can you get in trouble for having alcohol there or is it just frowned upon?
ahh, alcohol you mean for sanitizing? no, it's can easily buy from drugstores
No I mean for drinking
4:37 PM
for drinking, no, not selling in Markets
@αғsнιη probably to make it stronger, beer isn't a very strong drink so if you want to get drunk in a hurry you would add more alcohol.
we should get from some undergrounds stores 😂
In other countries I would also guess it's cheaper: instead of actually fermenting your drink, you take water, add alcohol and chemical taste things and sell it as "beer". But I doubt that it would be cheaper to get pure alcohol (or methanol) in Iran.
According to google alcohol is banned for production or distribution in Iran
@terdon plus you shouldn’t drink methanol
4:40 PM
@terdon methanol can easily get from drugstores, and this what they do, buy that and mix with water and add some natural fruits color and sell
but my brother saying drinking more if this kind of beers (hand made with methanol or ethanol I don't know exactly which, will make our eyes blind in long time
he studied biotechnology field
@αғsнιη yes, methanol can make you blind, and kill you
ironically the handiest antidote in places where drinking alcohol is readily available, is strong liqueur
Methanol toxicity is poisoning from methanol, characteristically via ingestion. Symptoms may include a decreased level of consciousness, poor or no coordination, vomiting, abdominal pain, and a specific smell on the breath. Decreased vision may start as early as twelve hours after exposure. Long-term outcomes may include blindness and kidney failure. Toxicity and death may occur even after drinking a small amount.Methanol poisoning most commonly occurs following the drinking of windshield washer fluid. This may be accidental or as part of an attempted suicide. Toxicity may also rarely occur through...
Methanol naturally occurs anytime fermentation happens but when done properly it is in low amounts
When people make homemade alcohol it is often not done properly
@jesse_b yup, our own bodies even produce methanol from pectin
or rather, methanol is produced from pectin inside our own bodies
so humans have naturally-occurring levels of methanol
> Methanol poisoning most commonly occurs following the drinking of windshield washer fluid.
good to know! @StephenKitt
4:45 PM
Wtf? I can understand that happens but "most commonly"? How many people are drinking windshield washer fluid?!
@StephenKitt in Iran some people dead because they drunk methanol when this epidemic was started, they were heard that drinking alcohol will make you safe and protective from COVID19 😐😐
@StephenKitt well yes, but we're talking about shady deals by shady folks here.
@terdon I think it probably mostly happens accidentally. Similar to the moonshine issue in the US, they aren't intentionally adding methanol they are just making bad moonshine.
wine is the same thing as beer? or how they are different? by taste?
@αғsнιη I can see the thinking: "Disinfecting our hands is good, it kills the virus. Let's drink the disinfectant to kill it in our bodies too!". Hold on, I've heard something similar from somewhere else too...
4:49 PM
@Kusalananda Yeah and it was not what he said at all ;) But it's alright that's why people don't trust the media.
@jesse_b Oh, it can also happen on purpose as long as methanol is either easier or cheaper to find than alcohol. Or both.
@jesse_b No, he just wondered whether injecting disinfectant might be a good idea.
Drinking it is soooo much easier.
@Kusalananda not me, some other Iranian people did
@Kusalananda No he didn't. There was some research being done on using ultraviolet light to disinfect the body and he was referring to that
@StephenKitt so what you're saying is that you can drink methanol
4:53 PM
@terdon methanol is cheaper and even sometime they sell it as name of ethanol for sanitizing
sounds like the sort of thing we need jesse_b to test; start with a dram and work up to a Nebuchadnezzar
@jesse_b No, sorry, he specifically said that "disinfectant cleans it out in under a minute" and "is there a way we can do something like that, by, by, injection". youtube.com/watch?v=33QdTOyXz3w
@jesse_b "And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds -- it sounds interesting to me."
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
@jesse_b yes, exactly.
4:54 PM
He is not a very articulate man but he was clearly talking about the research being done by actual doctors, not injecting household cleaners into your body
That's not referring to current research.
That's spinning off on some random train of thought.
@jesse_b he wasn't, for the simple reason that no such research is being done, will ever be done or could even conceivably be done.
Yes, UV is something else again. Bleach is very, very different.
he never said bleach though
and to assume he meant it is way off base
4:57 PM
Fair point.
Disinfectant, same problem.
"disinfectant" is definitely not the right word to use there but it also wouldn't be wrong
But you're quite right, he did not say bleach and I shouldn't have either.
if you are removing an infection you are "disinfecting" :p
like I said he's definitely not articulate but he also clearly did not mean household cleaners in any way
mental note: don't take medical advice from politicians
@jesse_b OK. I honestly don't see any other way that sentence could be interpreted. But water under the bridge.
4:58 PM
@terdon Bleach, is it bad if we aspire the Bleach?
aspire? You mean breathe in? Yes, it is bad.
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