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12:00 AM
@MichaelHomer And also, can you think of openssl req -new -key $NAME.key -out $NAME.csr as creating an unsigned certificate, and then the following actually signs it?
openssl x509 -req -in $NAME.csr -CA myCA.pem -CAkey myCA.key -CAcreateserial \
-out $NAME.crt -days 825 -sha256 -extfile $NAME.ext
 
The thing about a public key, your basic thing, right, is that it's public
If I give you a newspaper it doesn't prove I'm Rupert Murdoch
@BlackPanther Yes, CSR is "certificate signing request"
 
I think I understand, any server can say that they own the certificate (since the certificate is public, so it's available on the net), but unless a private key accompanies the certificate to say "Yes, this server actually owns/was given the certificate, it doesn't mean the Server is the actual owner as he may have stolen/intercepted it. Is this better? :)
 
@BlackPanther yes
 
@MichaelHomer And the password that is passed along with the certificate to the server, what exactly is it used for?
@MichaelHomer thanks :)
 
What password?
 
12:14 AM
When passing the certificate file to Kestrel, I also have to pass a password too.
Actually I think the password is for the certificate file, not for Kestrel. What do you think?
 
You could have encrypted the key, and then there would be a passphrase for that
If you didn't you can presumably leave it blank/omitted
 
Getting CA Private Key
Enter pass phrase for myCA.key:
 
Yes, you could put a passphrase on the CA key too
 
You're right. That's part of the command line output.
 
That is more common (in as much as running a CA can ever be "common"). I don't have my TLS keys encrypted
But it's analogous to the passphrase on your SSH key
 
12:19 AM
@MichaelHomer You mean it's more common to not have a pass phrase?
 
To a first approximation nobody is running a CA, but if they are then yes, they should have the private key encrypted
For the TLS keys, the benefit of encryption is fairly low since they need to be in cleartext memory anyway and you'd need to encode the password in configuration to let the web server start unattended
 
12:55 AM
Sorry, I was testing the latest attempt, and it now works!!! I ran the command openssl pkcs12 -export -out localhost.pfx -inkey localhost.key -in localhost.crt, and now chrome connects to Kestrel!
I now know how to setup HTTPS in a web app.
Thank you @MichaelHomer . And also for explaining to me about the exchange of a certificate between a server and a client.
 
Good!
Largely unrelated to how you'd set it up for real, though
 
@MichaelHomer As for this. I'm not sure what "nobody is running a CA" means?
@MichaelHomer I'm guessing TLS keys is some thing totally different?
@MichaelHomer Thanks :)
@MichaelHomer No way! At least please tell me what I learned today would help when it's time to set up HTTPS in production?
 
@BlackPanther Firefox has 148 root certificates in its store, many of which are from the same organisations
Those plus the odd enterprise root is all
TLS keys are these ones that weren't the CA keys
 
Okay, thanks.
 
@BlackPanther In production you should probably just use Let's Encrypt and certbot will put the files somewhere for you, so the part where you tell it which files to use may still be relevant
Not a lot of reason to generate manual CSRs and so on these days for most uses
 
1:07 AM
It's nice to hear that there are tools/software to handle setting up HTTPS in production, although you probably have to pay.
 
@MichaelHomer I'll remember those, thanks.
 
I haven't thought about setting it up manually in years
 
probably too much hassle
 
I pick items out of a menu and it just happens
Or, Caddy and I don't even do that, but I mostly have Apache and nginx to deal with
 
1:11 AM
How did you learn so much about web stuff?
Is there a book?
 
I started young, and then I did a PhD in computer science
Somewhere in between I read a lot
 
Did that CS PhD actually help with network administration stuff?
 
I'm sure there are a lot of developers that get buy without knowing the details, but it may be useful for me to understand things like ip addresses, servers, clients, and lots of other web stuff.
@MichaelHomer Aah I see, that makes sense. Your grasp is very strong.
 
@AndrasDeak Admin, not really, but the cryptography on the way was pretty relevant up there ↑↑↑
 
neat :)
 
1:14 AM
Some of the peripheral stuff too I suppose. I have an extremely in-depth knowledge of JavaScript now
 
I'm sorry for your loss? :P
 
Online courses are trying to muscle in on the role of Universities, but I think degrees still have a place
@MichaelHomer I'm learning JavaScript. I hope to have an in-depth knowledge of it too, but it will take time.
 
@AndrasDeak I am in PL, so it's germane. The ECMAScript specification is pretty well-assembled, given what it's trying to describe. Definitely in the better half of language specs
 
It's getting late. We'll continue our chat later. Thanks a lot @MichaelHomer!
Bye guys
o/
 
@MichaelHomer PL meaning programming languages á la CS?
 
1:19 AM
yes
 
I take it you're still in academia then
 
 
4 hours later…
5:30 AM
I really do not think this question merited downvotion to deletion:
 
 
2 hours later…
Tim
7:50 AM
@MichaelHomer "the better half of language specs", do you mean ECMAScript spec is one of the good language specs? I was wondering what are some/the others also in "the better half of language specs"? What are some/the others not in?
@BlackPanther I had some practical questions about CA and HTTPS a few months ago when I self studied Flask, but I didn't find something good to read. I just found this link blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/…. Does it help your questions in ASP.NET Core?
 
Tim
8:09 AM
@MichaelHomer I was wondering what frameworks for frontend and backend web development are great for study and for use in practice?
Happy Tuesday, peeps!
 
8:26 AM
@Tim No language specification is worth you reading, it's just that some are better laid out when you have to (or if you're writing one)
@Tim I don't know, but realistically the ones your employer tells you to use.
 
 
3 hours later…
Tim
11:10 AM
@MichaelHomer I don't have one
@MichaelHomer what are "some are better laid out when you have to (or if you're writing one)", and what are not?
So many frameworks in different languages. Are there some similar to the status and influence of SML/Haskell in programming languages?
I woke up and then felt asleep
I was exhausted reading CS:APP. I am reaching its latter part similar to APUE/TLPI
It says things differently, so I can compare it to APUE/TLPL.
It is something that everyone needs to know, but most don't need at work.
 
Tim
11:35 AM
Can I ask questions in English at Stack Overflow in Russian?
 
11:48 AM
@Tim no
 
@Tim perhaps that's a question for their Meta or chat room, not the U&L chat room, but seeing as how that site's main page and their Meta page are predominately Russian, I'd have to assume no.
I tried looking through their Meta pages for hints, but didn't find anything obvious. Then again, I'm using machine translation to "read" them.
 
hehe, newest question on their meta: "Can I ask questions at Stack Overflow in Russian?"
...oh, that's Tim's question. Facepalm...
 
Asking questions there just because you're banned at (English) SO might be seen as evading a ban. Hope that's not your intention.
 
Tim
Totally not
 
The suggestion itself is abusive, right, Tim? :)
 
Tim
11:54 AM
Are Russian people more friendly and open minded than Anglo-Saxon people?
 
People are people. All generalizations will be lies.
 
Tim
Some Russian people are very talented, as far as I know
 
so are some Anglo-Saxons
 
Tim
Hey, is there stack overflow in French?
Stephen Kitt needs to start one
How about Stack Overflow in New Zealand English
How about Stack Overflow in Canadian English?
in Australian English?
 
11:58 AM
@Tim no, but they already have pt.stackoverflow.com and es.stackoverflow.com, so you have 3 non-English languages to choose from!
 
What we really need is Stack Overflow for Tim
 
I think there was a proposal for a french stackoverflow, but it didn't leave area51 and altogether dissapear ...
 
@AndrasDeak Still hanging out here?
 
Apparently so... although starting to get snarkier for my own good :)
*too snarky
 
12:16 PM
Make Stack Overflow Latin Again
 
unicode > latin
 
Make SO Latin and Unicode Translations Into Obvious Nonsense
 
12:48 PM
Bought a Genius Mousepen (wacom-like just a lot cheaper) tablet, friend had a friend who said it works with linux too. Turns out my debian supports it out of the box.
Now all I've got to do is find some hand-eye coordination somewhere...
 
1:05 PM
oh, and software that lets me draw over images (but that shouldn't be too hard)
 
@AndrasDeak are there any claims on the box about how long you have to use it before you're a genius?
 
I think it's the mouse that was in the box that's a genius :( Or at least I've yet to feel any beneficial effects.
Algernon?
 
 
3 hours later…
4:25 PM
@AndrasDeak Snarky, snarkier, snarkiest.
@JeffSchaller The world has lots of languages. They should have a SO for each ot them, or else it's discrimination.
@AndrasDeak You're probably thinking of "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes. Originally a short story, and later a novel. Also made into a film.
 
@FaheemMitha I think they've been discriminated by Area 51 support, without having actually looked there for failed proposals.
 
@FaheemMitha yup
 
 
3 hours later…
7:15 PM
@AndrasDeak Krita is a great drawing program, open source, great Linux support and (I have read) great drawing tablet support. I don't have a tablet, but it's nice even if you don't have one. Should be your first choice.
 
@AndrasDeak Draw over images to what end?
 
7:35 PM
@Tim I guess that would depend on what you're using it for
 
7:46 PM
@FaheemMitha to grade scanned mid-terms
@Wildcard awesome, thanks for the tip!
 
@AndrasDeak You do that on a computer? You don't just do it by hand?
 
I normally do... but then I have to scan dozens of mid-terms on a flatbed scanner and it takes a workday
I'll probably have remote mid-terms in the future (and physical mid-terms could be scanned on-site fast), which would spare me a step of printing them at home and then scanning them back again.
Just looking at my options.
 
8:02 PM
@AndrasDeak As you are aware, TeX is an option for writing directly on a scan.
It does have the considerable merit of being automatable. Since you can program it. But I don't know exactly what you are trying to do.
Working with scanners is quite unpleasant. I personally try to avoid it if I can.
 
@FaheemMitha out of the question :)
I want to draw red squiggly lines and huge round exclamation marks and crossing out half pages
I could do all that with tex, mind you, but it would take 10x as long and it would be 10x less satisfying
 
@AndrasDeak Yes, I see. Tex wouldn't really work with freehand, I agree.
 
I can't afford to spend an hour per mid-term positioning my annotations
 
Then again, it wouldn't be very pleasant with a computer, period. Though a freehand drawing program might be usable. Though I've not had great experiences with those.
In that sort of situation you're really better off just working with paper directly.
 
@FaheemMitha I'm in a pickle of having a remote lecture, but students attend it on site (they watch a recording of a presentation I prepare for them). And mid-terms are in person too.
 
8:06 PM
@AndrasDeak Oh, quite so.
 
@FaheemMitha that's what I'm trying to find out (empirically)
 
@AndrasDeak I've always found teaching fairly painful. Good luck looking at your options.
 
The genius tablet I mentioned is cheap and seems to work with debian. I'll have to see if Krita or some other drawing program can offer me a workflow with which I'm more productive
@FaheemMitha I enjoy teaching, it's the unnecessary hoop jumping that's a pain in my side
 
@AndrasDeak That's good. If you enjoy it. I didn't.
@AndrasDeak There are ton of freehand drawing programs. One well known one is Inkscape. Quite old, I think.
 
Inkscape is normally a vector graphics program, I think. I need bitmap. Which it probably can do, but it's probably easier if it's originally geared at that.
 
8:10 PM
Ideally you want something that you can integrate with a pointer. So you can just use the pointer to do swiggly lines and crossing-outs.
A mouse isn't really ideal for that sort of thing.
 
@FaheemMitha yup
that's what the genius tablet is for
 
Sorry, when I said pointer, I really meant pen.
Because a mouse is a pointer too.
@AndrasDeak I'm pretty sure it can do freehand scribbly stuff.
 
Probably. But I also want to overlay it on an image without much fuss. I just imagine something like gimp can do this more naturally (except gimp is also not ideal for this based on my experience). I'll just try Krita that Wildcard suggested and see how that works for me.
 
@AndrasDeak I was also about to suggest GIMP. But yes, that's not ideal either.
For end user stuff like that, Apple systems are probably better. Because they are used my non-tech artistic types. *nix historically isn't. And there isn't enough uptake of those sorts of people to have programs with really good user experiences.
 
In the last semester I used gimp extensively to touch up remote mid-terms before printing
 
8:15 PM
@AndrasDeak Sounds painful.
 
It was :) But also immensely useful.
 
Doing stuff manually is horribly time-consuming.
 
Cropping, changing levels, increasing contrast etc. did wonders for readability
 
I suppose you can't just switch to multiple choice? :-)
 
Heh, no, alas
 
8:16 PM
@AndrasDeak It sounds like you've become quite the expert.
 
Just a not-entirely-ignorant end user, I'd say
I still fumble around when I want to do anything out of the ordinary (which I rarely do)
I'm a lot more comfortable with text-based pdf documents and TikZ figures
 
The best options for that by far are the iPad & Surface devices with a stylus, which is a bit of a shame
 
8:39 PM
@FaheemMitha Krita is the main counter-example for that. It's super clean, super slick UI, very very nice professional free software for digital painting. But other than that, yeah, creative workflows in Linux are not the greatest user experience.
 
9:39 PM
@MichaelHomer I was going to suggest something like that. @AndrasDeak Is something like that an option for you?
@Wildcard I see. Well, maybe that will work for Andreas then.
 
@FaheemMitha hell no
@FaheemMitha not Andreas ;)
 
@AndrasDeak Oh. Why not?
@AndrasDeak Sorry. :-)
Really not a fan of proprietary software devices myself, but sometimes needs must as the devil drives.
 
I hate apple. And if I wanted to spend a lot of money on this I'd buy a wacom tablet. Or one of those fancy samsung phones/tablets that a coworker used for grading and worked like a charm.
 
@AndrasDeak Hey, I hate Apple too!
 
Well I hate it enough not to want to touch it :P Even if I could casually afford it.
 
9:44 PM
But there are other options beside Apple.
 
Have you heard that the newest iphone comes without a charger? Brilliant.
 
@AndrasDeak And fancy Samsung phones/tablets are out of the question too?
@AndrasDeak Interesting. How is one supposed to charge it? By telepathy?
 
@FaheemMitha yes, but only because I otherwise don't need them and they are too expensive. I normally use middle-grade samsung phones
@FaheemMitha presumably by buying an iCharger Deluxe Supreme for the bargain price of $999.9
 
@AndrasDeak I see. Couldn't you just share with someone for the grading? Or talk your institution into getting all the teachers one?
@AndrasDeak That sounds like Apple, yes.
 
You use one of the USB ports you already have
 
9:46 PM
Well, I was offered a loaned wacom tablet for this use case... but I didn't want to bother with it until I was sure that it would play nicely with debian and my workflow. Now I have the cheap genius tablet and if it works it will suffice (and if it doesn't work the wacom won't help me either)
 
I once bought an Ipod. I then thought to myself, never again.
@AndrasDeak I'm not sure how Debian enters into it. Email yourself the stuff from the tablet.
 
I got an ipod shuffle as a gift. It was a pain to transfer files to it on linux...
@FaheemMitha the kind of wacom tablets I have in mind are peripherals
full-fledged artist's tablets that are also displays are a fortune
 
@AndrasDeak I bet. Apple wants to the Universe. They should really have named themselves Universe Computers.
@AndrasDeak Oh. Like how much?
 
No idea :D
 
@AndrasDeak Getting Linux to support one of those things properly could be... interesting.
Speaking as someone who has done his share of fiddling with device drivers.
 
@AndrasDeak Oh. Yes, that's quite a lot of money.
 
it's roughly my net monthly wage :D
ugh, getting tired
 
@AndrasDeak Wow, they pay you really badly.
I hope Hungary is cheap. And I got the right country for once. Sleep time. Talk to you later.
 
@FaheemMitha indeed, it is :)
good night
 
Tim
@FaheemMitha Does paying better help some school teachers abuse their students and other people less?
 
10:11 PM
wat
 
@Tim I'm amazed that you managed to change the subject from wages and teachers into abuse. That's a heck of a segue.
 
Ah, I get it, you're implying that I'm abusive because I don't get payed well. Carry on.
I'm starting to speak fluent Timese
 
@AndrasDeak I really don't think that's what he's saying. Seems like too much of a logical connection to be the right explanation.
 
meh
 
@AndrasDeak If you're looking into using Wacom tablets with Linux, you'll definitely want to read up on David Revoy's blog posts. davidrevoy.com/index.php?tag/hardware
 
10:16 PM
No, no :) Wacom-like at best. But I'll check it out anyway.
thanks
 
10:46 PM
@Tim I notice a lot of your recent questions are about the Linux kernel. I would recommend the book "The Linux Programming Interface" which will probably answer most of your questions.
 
Tim
@Wildcard How do you like CS:APP?
 

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