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11:03 AM
hi. I can use shred to securely delete a file, if really usefull on ext4. But how can I remove traces of filename in filesystem metadata ? Because extundelete picks up easily deleted file names.
 
11:23 AM
@solsTiCe I'd recommend physically destroying the drive. shred will overwrite the file's last known location on disk, but if you've edited the file or copied it around, downloaded it, or had it delivered through email, there may be traces of it (or of temporary files with the same data) in all sorts of locations.
 
11:39 AM
@solsTiCe only one way to make sure: nuke it from orbit
 
12:09 PM
@solsTiCe There might be no point to any of this, because the NSA already has a copy. Strong crypto is generally the recommended way of keeping things safe that you really want to say hidden, in this less than perfect of worlds.
 
12:41 PM
Hi
 
 
2 hours later…
2:47 PM
@Caleb since you've worked on ISP I got a question about an investigation I'm doing: are there any cost associated with the raw transmission of data through ISP's? My POV is that ISP has fixed costs and that their users download 10MiB, 10GiB or 10TB doesn't make operations more costly (ignoring for a moment if they have the installed capacity to handle the load).
@FaheemMitha there was an extension back in the day we were looking to migrate to indexeddb.
 
@Braiam What kind of extension?
@Braiam Interesting question. I'd like to know the answer too.
Might be on topic somewhere on SE, if it hasn't been answered already.
 
@FaheemMitha a manga tracker which modified the online reading experience
 
@Braiam Oh. And who is "we" here?
 
@Braiam Ah, ok.
Didn't know you were into manga.
 
3:12 PM
Anyone know why when I copy 'YEAR=‘2017’' out of atom and into my terminal it pastes as '2017YEAR='?
 
@Jesse_b check for invisible characters. xxd can help you with that.
 
Yea nvm I'm an idiot lol. I copied it originally out of evernote and it put the weird single quote characters in
I didn't notice it until I single quoted it in here
 
@Jesse_b Looks like there may be a \r just before 2017?
 
changing the bad single quote characters fixed it but yes that may have been the case. since I modified them in atom which I have set to use LF so it probably removed it.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:38 PM
Folks, is ifupdown the default in Debian? I don't remember ever manually changing it to get a network connection on installation, so I think yes.
 
5:02 PM
@Kusalananda, you would love the 'airport' manpage
 
@Jesse_b :-)
 
@Jesse_b Now that's what I call a Zen manpage.
Though how is it today's date?
 
Yea that was odd to me as well. Shows the same in my terminal
 
This is IMHO a good manual (it even has examples): man.openbsd.org/ls
 
@Kusalananda Are the basic BSD utilities very different from the ones in a Linux distribution? Like ls?
 
5:14 PM
@FaheemMitha Some of them are, I don't think ls is that different
 
@FaheemMitha The core POSIX functionality is the same, mostly (GNU command line parsing is funky: ls . -l for example). Then there are extensions on both sides.
 
@Kusalananda Do all the free Unix-like OS's follow POSIX?
AFAIK, there are no means of enforcement.
 
@FaheemMitha They try their best to be POSIX conformant. I sometimes see commits to the OpenBSD CVS repos that fixes minor thing in regards to this.
I suppose it's the same for the other Unices.
 
@Kusalananda Ok. Good to know.
 
I don't think any OS's are certified anymore but I believe it can be said that all *nix OS's at least try to follow POSIX
 
5:17 PM
So POSIX a generally accepted standard?
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, most definitely.
 
@Kusalananda ok
 
Guys, I need a bit of code review: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/394022/…
 
I once read that Stallman was heavily involved in POSIX.
 
I have tested my answer to this, but it's not working for the OP.
I can't figure out why.
-1
Q: Unix question - copy entire folder contents - not just the outputted file

Luke WI would like to use find and rsync to copy any directory that contains at least one "wav" file. The copying should copy the whole folder if a "wav" file is present. I have this so far: find . -name "*.wav" | rsync -armR --include="*/" --include="*.wav" --exclude="*" /users/lukew/desktop/merged...

 
5:19 PM
Would it matter if he is on debian and his sh points to dash?
 
@Jesse_b It should not matter.
The sh -c script is only using standard stuff. Nothing fancy.
Hmmm... I think he's quoting a solution to a bounty question that @Gilles wrote.
So maybe Gilles could have some input on this?
And @StéphaneChazelas usually turns up with corrections to my shell answers too...
But in this case, I think it's something to do with the directory layout he has.
 
@Jesse_b Good!
I might reference that later.
 
5:35 PM
isn't $( ) command substitution bash specific?
 
@Jesse_b Nope.
 
@Kusalananda Fair enough :)
 
Nice
maybe he should just set -x in his shell and try to run it
 
Ah well, now he has changed the question to something completely different (far down in the comment thread). I think I'll stop spending effort.
 
5:51 PM
for DIR in $(find . -type d); do find $DIR -type f -name .wav | grep '.' &>/dev/null; if [[ "$?" -ge '1' ]]; then rm -r "$DIR"; fi ; done
it removed the glob but it still shows it if I edit that comment
 
@Jesse_b I try to avoid piping find into anything... I've left that question for now.
@Jesse_b Backticks are messing it up I think.
 
@Kusalananda I piped find into grep so it would exit with 1 if it doesn't find anything.
I don't know why find doesn't do that natively
 
@Jesse_b it didn't exist in the Bourne shell, but it's in POSIX
@Kusalananda isn't this a duplicate of a recent question?
2
Q: Recursively list all directories that contain one or more jpg image files

MidahedI'm trying to tidy-up my photos which are, for various historic reasons, scattered all over my system. To enable me to make a start on this task, I've been trying to use the command line to construct a list of all directories that contain one or more jpg files. I'm certain that I don't have to b...

we both answered that
 
6:07 PM
@Gilles His original question was slightly different as he wanted to recursively copy all directories with the files, however he has since changed his mind and now wants to delete all directories that DON'T contain the files.
 
Is this a dupe of the linked question?
 
@Jesse_b then he can ask a new question. Or search, I'm sure that's a duplicate as well.
 
@Gilles Thanks for the suggestion about using set!
 
@Gilles I don't disagree
 
@Gilles It's not quite a dupe I think, not as it currently stands.
The listing of directories containing files with a particular file extension is just a part of this OPs question.
Ah, well. It's a dupe then. :-)
 
6:46 PM
At last! Got a actual file structure to work with for that question, from the OP.
 
7:04 PM
@terdon Thanks for cleaning up those comments.
 
You're welcome.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:49 PM
@Braiam Oh absolutely there is cost there. Except for the rare case of when we provided point to point tunnels between locations on dedicated hardware so traffic started and ended with us every byte cost us something to move.
ISP's have to pay for their upstream link(s) too, and pricing for that is more and more directly linked to actual data moved the higher up you get in the link chain.
Consumers pay for a link at a potential speed, ISP's pay for the amount of data they actually move and spread that cost out across their users.
 
@Caleb In terms of the big picture, does moving internet traffic around really cost a lot? In terms of energy? Or is it just people trying to make a (big) profit on their sunk investments in hardware?
 
Also the higher you go up the chain the more everything runs at capacity. The last mile link houses may be fast but you count on it not being saturated all the time. An ISP's link up tends to stay pretty full, possibly even saturating during peak. Top level pipelines stay pretty full and earn money based on usage not potential speed.
It doesn't cost energy to actually move (fibre is very low power) but infustructure costs to maintain and constantly needs upgrading. The only way you ever make profits is by having lots of customers. It costs too much to operate to make any money at all one a small user base.
If you're trying to ask if fair use quotas are reasonable or just a scam to earn more money the answer is that they are absolutely necessary — ISPs would never stay afloat without those kind of caps in place: moving the data costs too much.
 
9:21 PM
@Caleb WOAH there, I was under the impression that price went by installed capacity upstream not by actual bytes moved, since if bytes/$ wast too costly I just connected to another upstream.
@Caleb Ok, but those cost may actually go down with more users, no?
Also, isn't hardware more efficient nowadays? I know that they may be more expensive and require more maintenance cost (specialized personnel) but moving the bits be cheaper overall?
cheaper in the way of potential-capacity/bucks-spent
 
9:45 PM
Does anyone know why my Arch Software Center crashes all the time?
 
@Lorthas nope
 
10:03 PM
Is it normal for substring expansion to not work if the variable begins with a space?
 
the variable name start with a space?
 
yes
if I tr -d " " I can use offsets but while it has that space they only work from the rear (like {...: -4})
Duh, sorry not the name but the value.
 
@Caleb Why does it constantly need upgrading?
And does it cost so much to maintain fibers, or wires, or whatever they are called?
 
10:38 PM
@FaheemMitha It needs constant upgrading because bandwidth requirements increase on a daily basis.
 
@Jesse_b They do? Why?
 
Because data requirements in general are always increasing. My company handles something like 600 PB of data but last year it was only expected to be around 150PB
It's probably going to be several hundred ZB by next year
 
@Jesse_b are you in the process of growing or without growth?
 
Large merger and growth
but still, 5 years ago that amount of data would have been generally unheard of
for anyone
 
Has been the growth linear or exponential?
 
10:46 PM
I'm not really involved with it enough to say
 
Ok
 
I would say it's certainly not linear though...exponential and/or sporadic
 
 
1 hour later…
11:49 PM
@Jesse_b I think home users tend to use more data if it's avaliable, but there's a natural cutoff. I now use my computer as a TV, more or less. Which I would never have thought of doing till recently. But I've got to wonder where all this need is coming from.
 
@FaheemMitha Yea, I've heard the statistic that netflix accounts for like 70-75% of all available bandwidth in north america, because generally streaming data will use as much bandwidth as is available to it.
 
@Jesse_b Expands to fill the space available, eh?
Seems a bit wasteful.
 
@FaheemMitha Yep and now people want to prevent ISPs from limiting it because they don't understand what net neutrality is.
 
@FaheemMitha More like the best quality netflix can deliver considering your bandwidth
Remember, bandwidth not used is wasted.
 
@Braiam That's one way of looking at it, I suppose.
@Jesse_b One also hears about this wacky Internet of Things. Sounds like a security nightmare.
 
11:53 PM
I guess but when it's 1 million people's bandwidth going over a single ISP pipe it's often taking bandwidth that would normally be used elsewhere
 
@Jesse_b Doubtful, as people tend, on average to do the same things at the same time.
 
@Braiam Which is why most ISPs are saturated during peak hours.
 
@Jesse_b Quite.
 
I guess to be fair that just means they should upgrade their infrastructure to support the services they sell but I think it's likely not the top level ISP's fault. It's likely the end user ISPs that are oversubscribing
oversubscribing is probably not the right word but overselling I guess
 
@Jesse_b Actually, if it was like that you would expect that in every market the same stuff happened
 
11:57 PM
not always. Generally in markets where there is competition, services are fine. In the US and Canada anyway however most areas only have one end-user ISP
and in those areas the service is generally barely acceptable
 

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