/dev/chat

I don't know of any such system. There may well be one but different rooms have different tolerance levels for profanity. We're not too uptight here, the ELU room allows it to flow freely. I doubt there's an automated system.

Mind you, targeted profanity, calling someone something, is a whole different thing. That is most certainly not allowed here or elsewhere.

Faheem Mitha

10:41 AM

@terdon that's an interesting interview with Cleese and Palin. Much better than the average vacuous drivel one sees nowadays.

terdon

@FaheemMitha It is indeed. They are intelligent, erudite, thinking people the Pythons are.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Well, I haven't met them personally, but I'll take your word for it.

The mainstream talk shows, at least the US ones, are truly terrible. Usually they are about nothing at all.

Fabby

11:48 AM

@terdon How do the blue balls show up? Magic??? :P

terdon

@Fabby Flagging

The AU room is particularly sensitive about swearing.

More so than any other I frequent anyway.

Fabby

@terdon As usual, it all depends on the context... I'm pretty sure that if I would call you names using a witty archaic insult, you would laugh...

terdon

I said profanity, not insults. There's a difference. Idiot is an insult but not profane while asshole is both.

Fabby

Something like "Yeah, yeah, from the country that not only invented Democracy, but also orgies..."

You would laugh...

:P

@terdon OK...

terdon

@Fabby I wish, you're thinking of the Romans.

And there's no insult there.

Fabby

11:58 AM

Nah, the Greeks invented it, the Romans refined it...

Everything worthwhile today was invented by the Greeks...

Except the CPU and TCP/IP...

terdon

Well, yes, the Greeks had it for religious rituals though, not partying. Mind you, there was precious little difference between the two when it came to Dionysios.

Fabby

:D Indeed!

Lego? Invented by the Greeks!

Ah, cement was invented by the Romans...

OK, Gotta go!

We'll continue later...

;-)

terdon

k

Faheem Mitha

1:09 PM

@Shirish ping

@terdon does pinging work if the person is not in the chat room?

Does anyone have an easy to follow guide on what to do when attending a (hypothetical) key-signing party?

casey

1:31 PM

did GCC change their versioning scheme? (only one minor version number now, I see 5.0, 5.1 and the trunk at 6.0)

terdon

2:04 PM

@FaheemMitha If they have been in the room recently, yes.

@FaheemMitha how would I go about formatting this in LaTeX?

I have the equations down OK, but I can't get the bareword "with" to appear as normal, not italicized text:

    P(X\leq k_{0})=\sum_{k=0}^{k_{0}}P(X=k)= \sum_{k=0}^{k_{0}}\frac{\binom{K}{k}\binom{N-K}{n-k}}{\binom{N}{n}}   with P(X=0)=\frac{\binom{N-K}{n}{\binom{N}{n}}}

Gilles

@terdon \quad\text{with}\quad (or maybe with less space)

terdon

Thanks, trying now

Perfect, thanks Gilles

Gilles

@FaheemMitha yes, if they've been around recently (in the last 14 days IIRC). Though it's rude to just ping someone. Tell them what you want to tell them.

casey

2:28 PM

@terdon you can do \mathrm{with} also to get normal formatting

but you'll still need manual spacing on either side of it

terdon

Good to know, thanks.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon hmm, tricky.

It would probably look better with those equations on separate lines.

IMO.

You could just wrap \text{with}. That's what I usually do.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Well, I like them on the same line since the second is just a special case of the first.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon I see.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Man, LaTeX is worse than Perl. Three people have come up with three different ways of doing the same thing :)

Faheem Mitha

2:32 PM

But I still think it would look better (and be easier on the eyes) if you lined them up one below the other.

@casey Good question. Checking gcc.gnu.org.

@terdon you realise the experts on that subject don't hang out here, right? You want the tex.sx chat room.

@casey gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#num_scheme

I guess we will be at gcc 10 in no time. Personally, I liked low release numbers.

@terdon I basically said what Gilles said. Minus the spacing thing.

user146722

3:21 PM

Why did this chatroom have an orange (1) next to it?

Faheem Mitha

3:43 PM

@SelflessPsychopath I didn't see it, but it was possibly that offensive flag.

user146722

Oh, I see, well sorry.

user146722

3:54 PM

@Fabby This sounds both amazing and horrifying :D

Faheem Mitha

@SelflessPsychopath @terdon thinks this is inaccurate, and he is the mod, so he should know. See comments in the backlog.

I personally have seen no sign of a bot going around and flagging comments. But I have seen signs of posts being flagged by humans.

terdon

Yes, there is no such thing as automatic flagging of obscenities.

What does happen is that if too many of your posts are flagged as offensive, you're automatically banned from chat for a while.

People need to flag you fist though.

user146722

Ah, well I'm very familiar with the dynamic of groups coming together to kick you out

user146722

I'll do my best to avoid that, but of course I'll need some minor accommodations to achieve that

terdon

@SelflessPsychopath It's not quite that, anyone can flag and those flags are shown to >10k rep users network-wide. If enough of those (who are not really in the "group" since they could be on completely different sites) validate the flag, you get suspended.

user146722

4:03 PM

Oh my

terdon

@SelflessPsychopath You're really going to work hard to be banned for obscenity here. I suggest you don't try it, mind you, just saying it's not all that easy either.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon yes, that sounds accurate. I'd still like to see documentation of this, though.

user146722

Single flagged messages, in isolation, are tested by a blind sample of the opinions of the users in power?

Faheem Mitha

@SelflessPsychopath yes, please avoid testing the parameters of what people will tolerate here.

user146722

@FaheemMitha You've misunderstood

terdon

4:05 PM

All I see here is that you used a word, once, that another user objected to. You were asked (politely) not to do it again and you responded (equally politely) that you'd have no problem not to. Perfectly civil all around and no issues here at all.

user146722

I will avoid offending people, I need accommodations for that

user146722

I have no wish to "test the limits"

terdon

Sorry, couldn't resist.

user146722

But can someone clarify that flagging system, what does "shown to" mean exactly?

Faheem Mitha

@SelflessPsychopath I wasn't suggesting you were planning to. I just asked that you wouldn't.

@terdon :-)

@SelflessPsychopath basically, we don't have a lot of that kind of noise here, and we don't want it.

user146722

4:06 PM

hahahahaha :D

terdon

@SelflessPsychopath Well, anyone with >10k rep gets notified of the flag. Most people have the intelligence to avoid confirming/dismissing the flag unless they know the room in question.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon was that you flagging your own comment? :-)

Unihedron

^^^^

terdon

For example, just now., we have two people who saw a flag raised against my joke and came in to see what's up.

Unihedron

We're given "valid" (+1 flag), "invalid" (-1 flags), and "not sure" (+0.5 flag).

terdon

4:07 PM

@FaheemMitha No, I dismissed it though.

user146722

Very interesting

Unihedron

This is a game of cards, basically - the more votes went through, the more valid flags it takes to validate it and cause the system to hand you a timeout.

Rainbolt

Mods can counterflag their own messages?

terdon

Hi guys. Nothing to see here, I was just making a point. We're all friendly :)

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Ah, Ok. It told me 2 users flagged it. I wonder who they were.

terdon

4:07 PM

@Rainbolt Apparently.

Unihedron

I counterflagged it, but try to use neutral language :D

Rainbolt

Interesting

user146722

I was one of them

Faheem Mitha

@SelflessPsychopath Ah, mystery solved.

terdon

@Unihedron Context is everything. Also remember that many rooms have no issue with profanity and that SE explicitly allows it (within limits) in chat.

Faheem Mitha

4:08 PM

@Rainbolt counterflag?

Unihedron

@terdon yep

Rainbolt

@FaheemMitha Counterflag - To mark invalid a flag raised by another

user146722

@FaheemMitha I've heard they can provide a negative flag by marking a flag "Invalid"

Faheem Mitha

@Rainbolt ah. I wasn't familiar with that flag.

Unihedron

2 mins ago, by Unihedron

We're given "valid" (+1 flag), "invalid" (-1 flags), and "not sure" (+0.5 flag).

^ real actual values

Faheem Mitha

4:10 PM

@Unihedron you don't appear to be a mod. Are you a SE employee?

Unihedron

@FaheemMitha No.

terdon

Nah, he's just an all 'round busybody :P

Faheem Mitha

@Unihedron Ok, I assumed you had to have some special privileges to "counterflag".

terdon

@FaheemMitha Uni is one of the more active users who hangs out in the tavern a lot. They do much of the janitorial work SE-wide.

Unihedron

I'm an enthusiast of the SE platform. I'm not affiliated with any of the sites. My opinions are my own and do not reflect that of my family's, communities I participate in, blogs I read, my employers' and or my legal identity.

Faheem Mitha

4:11 PM

@terdon I see.

terdon

We call them the tavern posse.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon How nice. Shades of Terry Pratchett.

Unihedron

@FaheemMitha 10k network wide reputation points, basically.

terdon

And are thankful for their efforts.

Faheem Mitha

@Unihedron ok

Unihedron

4:12 PM

Low Quality Posts HQ

Home of bots for catching low quality posts (and sometimes spa...

Faheem Mitha

You need a total of 10k across all sites to see these flags raised, then?

terdon

Oh yes, @Unihedron, you do a lot of work on smokey right?

Unihedron

Not really "a lot", I just write regexes :p It's developed by the people from Charcoal.

terdon

OK, I've just seen you respond to reports about it.

Him? Her? Whatever.

Unihedron

I like contributing to projects!

I'm also trying to be a programmer.

terdon

4:15 PM

Good man! Or woman, as the case may be.

Unihedron

:)

Ignoring the fact that I procrastinate too much, quality control is what I do around here.

As a hobbyist.

I probably killed the original conversation.

terdon

Well, the original conversation was just explaining how flags work. I think the advent of high rep users just demonstrated that admirably!

Unihedron

@FaheemMitha Yep. Only accounts with 200+ counts.

Faheem Mitha

4:53 PM

@terdon that's actually quite a funny interview/debate.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Heh, I thought you'd like it.

Faheem Mitha

What a pair of pompous idiots. And what an ass Malcolm Muggeridge is. I know about him slightly; he was a friend of Erics.

Funny to see John Cleese as the voice of reason.

I guess Muggeridge must be pretty old here...

Eric died in 1950, and Muggeridge was at his funeral.

Muggeridge on Eric -> johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/Extras/orwell.pdf

Funny, even the moderator entered the debate on the side of the Pythons because the other two were being so ridiculous.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha No, as it's in an explanation it's unlikely to be flagged as offensive... ;-)

terdon

@FaheemMitha Yes, after he discovered religion.

Fabby

@SelflessPsychopath I've been corrected in the mean time! ;-)

Faheem Mitha

5:06 PM

@Fabby Ah, ok.

@terdon Yes, so I see.

user146722

@Fabby Well that's a damn shame, I prefer everyone being at the risk of killer robots

Faheem Mitha

@SelflessPsychopath You must be looking forward to the new Avengers film then.

derobert

@SelflessPsychopath Well, in that case... /me grabs the soldering iron

Fabby

@SelflessPsychopath Depending on the geographical area you live in, you might already be...

Faheem Mitha

@derobert No need. Just put in a call to Tony Stark.

user146722

5:08 PM

@Fabby lol, no I'm on the other side

derobert

All hail our new Robotics Overlords!

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby that's true. All those pesky drone thingys.

@derobert hah, that one must be new.

Apparently not. Those SE sites are getting increasingly hard to keep track of.

user146722

I don't specifically want you guys to have to deal with killer robots or anything, they just kindof have a "cool" factor

Faheem Mitha

Let a thousand flowers bloom.

@SelflessPsychopath how many killer robots are you acquainted with?

derobert

@SelflessPsychopath I built an automated chicken farm in Minecraft a little bit ago—I guess that counts as a killer robot? At least to Minecraft chickens.

user146722

5:15 PM

I'd agree, I like to stretch the definitions of things

user146722

I like to think of an alarm clock as a killer robot targeting your sleep cycle

derobert

@JohnLawler Bigoted discrimination against any kind of cosmic body has no part to play on an enlightened website for the discussion of English usage. Instead of "unsafe" please use "differently safe" in the future ;) — Marv Mills 2 hours ago

LOL

See the full comment thread for context. Just stumbled across that.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert British style comedy. I thought he probably was, and apparently he is.

According to his profile, at any rate.

derobert

That comment has one flaw though—the wink at the end makes it too clear its in jest. The reader should instead be left at least slightly concerned it may not be.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert you're a purist.

derobert

7:29 PM

Why is Amazon asking me if time travel is possible?

odd.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert context?

derobert

@FaheemMitha I visited amazon.com and it was there

Faheem Mitha

@derobert huh

derobert

after voting, it's displaying the results

Faheem Mitha

@derobert weird.

It should ask if the world was created in 4004 BC. The answers might be revealing.

derobert

7:36 PM

@FaheemMitha s/revealing/bring forth despair/

Faheem Mitha

Is the Iphone 4S very out of date? Amazon.in has it for Rs. 15000.

amazon.in/Apple-iPhone-4S-White-8GB/dp/B00GFGKC92

derobert

IPhone 4S

The iPhone 4S (retroactively stylized with a lowercase 's' as iPhone 4s as of September 2013) is a touchscreen-based smartphone developed, manufactured, and released by Apple Inc. It is the fifth generation of the iPhone, succeeding the iPhone 4 and preceding the iPhone 5. Announced on October 4, 2011 at Apple's Cupertino campus, its media coverage was accompanied by the death of former Apple CEO and co-founder Steve Jobs on the following day. Available for pre-order on October 7 and coming to mainstream availability in retail stores on October 14 in the United States, Australia, Canada, the United...

So it's from 2013.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I really don't know anything about smartphones. How quickly do they date?

derobert

And discontinued in 2014.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert hmm. something wrong with it?

derobert

7:38 PM

Replaced by a newer model, that's why it was discontinued.

They're up to 6 now

Faheem Mitha

3.5 diagonal display. That doesn't sound that large.

@derobert Yes I see. I don't really see myself buying an Apple product anyway. They're a hateful company.

@derobert I was thinking of getting this one. Comments?

derobert

No idea. I have no iPhones. Only Android devices.

Faheem Mitha

amazon.in/gp/product/B00M3RILJU

Wonder what happened to the one box thing.

@derobert To be clear, by this one, I didn't mean the Iphone. :-)

I meant the following link - the Gionee

derobert

I personally like higher resolution screens—at least 300ppi. But that's more expensive. That looks like a low-spec phone, hopefully its cheap.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Not terribly. Let me translate into dollars.

derobert

7:45 PM

Well, how's it compare in price to a "flagship" device like a Galaxy S6?

Faheem Mitha

$150. Not that cheap. And if you think this phone is low-spec, you should see my current one.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha one-night stand

Faheem Mitha

amazon.in/gp/product/B00UTGYT0W

derobert

@FaheemMitha $150 is cheap for a smartphone.

Gilles

(Actually, that's not true: unless you play games, a 2-year old mid-to-high-end phone is as good as new. At least with Android.)

Faheem Mitha

7:47 PM

Rs 50,000. Around $830.

@derobert ^^ Galaxy S6.

derobert

Wow, that's not much more than it is here.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I don't do much with my phone except make phone calls. Though a slightly more capable phone than the one I currently have would not be a bad thing.

@derobert Well, the volume must drop it down.

Still IMO an excessive amount to pay for a little portable gadget. That's what I paid for my computer in the last iteration.

derobert

@FaheemMitha you paid $150 for a computer??? That's a cheap computer...

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles any thoughts about the Gionee?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha no

Faheem Mitha

7:50 PM

@derobert No, I mean I paid Rs 50000. I was referencing the Galaxy.

And I had it built using my old case. After the old MB died. But that is how much it cost to resurrect it.

@Gilles ok. I'm guessing smartphones don't interest you much.

Fabby

@derobert It is possible to time travel... Only forward though... ;-)

Faheem Mitha

That Gionee is an Android phone, right? Which means it runs a fork of the Linux kernel? So can one run bash on such a device?

@Fabby :-)

@derobert what does a standard LCD display have?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Why not the Ubuntu phone?

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby what Ubuntu phone?

derobert

@Fabby Yes, I figured that wasn't what they meant.

@FaheemMitha you can run bash on Android

Faheem Mitha

7:54 PM

@derobert Ok, thanks. Do you?

derobert

@FaheemMitha they vary. Computer displays used to always be around 100ppi. Nowadays they go higher, though a lot of stuff doesn't work right.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert ok

Fabby

@FaheemMitha The one in the blue link above your question??? :P

Faheem Mitha

But does that phone look adequate for general basic use?

@Fabby oh, pardon me.

Fabby

It's on my list of phones to buy...

It's a bit early adopter: no skype etc...

Faheem Mitha

7:56 PM

It says only available in the EU. One sec, let me google.

Fabby

but it has a full-fledged Linux kernel

I can mail it to you...

There's a Chinese one out too...

maybe they sell everywhere...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Oh, really? Chinese Ubuntu phone?

I checked. Doesn't look like an Ubuntu phone will be available in India any time soon. And I'm not sure I want one anyway.

Fabby

(or near release. I didn't follow that one's release)

Go Android then...

Faheem Mitha

@derobert is 200g Ok for a smartphone? Sounds a bit heavy.

derobert

Hmmm, my Nexus 5 is lighter (130g). Even the Nexus 6 is lighter (180g). So a little heavy, but not insane yet (like Nexus 10, 600g)

Faheem Mitha

8:02 PM

@derobert Ok. I don't know how heavy it is, but I'm going by answered questions. The specs on the site say 122 g but I think that is without the battery (based on what people are saying).

derobert

Well, Nexus devices all have integrated batteries, so those weights are with battery. I grabbed them from Wikipedia

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Ok. So, how many phones do you have?

@Fabby what phone do you have?

Fabby

Old Cheap Nokia...

It SMSes, Calls, plays music.

That's all I need...

... until I find a job.

derobert

@FaheemMitha I have a LG Dare (need to dispose of), Droid X (damaged screen), Galaxy Nexus (broken, should dispose of), Nexus 4 (working), Nexus 5 (working, main phone).

Fabby

then I'll buy the BQ...

Faheem Mitha

8:13 PM

@derobert wow

derobert

I might have a Nokia candybar lying around too. If so, need to dispose of that...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby BQ?

derobert

Crackberry Q10, probably

Faheem Mitha

@derobert how long do your Android phones last for, on average?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha The Ubuntu Phone...

derobert

8:14 PM

@FaheemMitha When I could get a new one for $350, I just got a new one every year. But the Nexus 6 was too expensive, so I still have my Nexus 5.

Faheem Mitha

I'm impressed by the Android's penetration. It's already hard to find a phone here that doesn't run Android.

Fabby

2-Sim, HHD, 8MB of RAM, 64GB storage max, Linux kernel

derobert

Its still holding up fine. But I'll probably get the next Nexus phone in October. Or maybe a Nexus 6 when the price comes down... I want that larger screen....

Faheem Mitha

The number of people running Android here must outweigh the number of people running actual Linux by a factor of thousand or more.

Fabby

I've had about 8 phones in 20 years...

Faheem Mitha

8:16 PM

@derobert Do you recommend the Nexus?

Fabby

>:)

derobert

Also have a Nexus 10 tablet

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby My current phone is the only mobile phone I've ever owned. Got it in 2010.

Not having a mobile in India is essentially impossible. It's like trying to walk around with no clothes around. Except much more troublesome.

derobert

@FaheemMitha They're great for the price point (except the Nexus 6, which is too expensive)—if you can live with their downsides, which is mainly a not-so-great battery life, and a battery that is not removable, so you can't carry a second. Some people complain about the lack of SD cards... but I've never cared about that.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha :D :D :D

Faheem Mitha

8:17 PM

Everyone asks for your mobile number all the time. You'd think this country was born with mobile phones.

@derobert Are those the original Google Android phones?

derobert

yeah, the Nexus line is sold by Google.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert ok

derobert

Well, I don't have the original one, the Galaxy Nexus is a few generations in