/dev/chat

Braiam

12:07 AM

oh, cool, I have 10k

slm

@Braiam well done, congrats

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Congrats.

Braiam

lets do this, just star a congrats message, since I'm afraid I will have tons of notifications in the inbox while I'm not looking the chat

4

Braiam

1:55 AM

oh-my-zsh could be available on Debian repositories soon

Patrick

3:00 AM

ugh. oh-my-zsh. I used to hang out in the #zsh channel on freenode. 95% of issues people came in with were because of that damn thing

Ramesh

3:40 AM

wow, nice to see the original author answering a question about his program.

Basj

6:51 AM

@Gilles does this really mean my system records atime?

Basj

7:12 AM

@Gilles : solved, I checked /etc/fstab, I have relatime, that's good

magnetik

7:36 AM

Heyo

slm

11:47 AM

What's the obsession w/ oh-my-zsh?

What do we do with this one? Seems approp. for softwarerec, thoughts?

-1

Q: Ruby alternative to fabric

Is there a Ruby alternative to Python based Fabric?

Braiam

12:05 PM

@slm taken from Gilles book meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/a/49/226

Braiam

1:13 PM

@slm you checking out the fedora/phpmyadmin question?

terdon

@Braiam is there any situation where it is not a horrible idea to mix dis and wheezy?

Braiam

@terdon if he's pinning the packages, no

casey

@terdon sid?

terdon

0

Q: How to minimize apt source.list

I think these lines can trim to few lines. So I need some advice. How can I improve these sources.list? apt/sources.list, Latest Debian release: deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib deb http://ftp.debian.org/...

apt package-management

@Braiam I doubt it, the OP didn't even know what deb-src is. Sounds like a newbie. I'm pretty sure his question was about removing unneeded repos. Anyway, in the absence of other data, that sid line is troubling.

casey

@terdon ahh

damn, only 9Z and I'm already at the UV rep cap :/

Braiam

1:26 PM

@terdon yeah, but that's not what he's asking about

if he isn't reporting problems, I will focus on his immediate query

terdon

shrugs, I always try to answer the question they would have asked if they understood the problem better.

slm

@Braiam yeah I just edited it

terdon

Oh and congrats on the 10k by the way :) I starred the message but since you're here...

Braiam

@slm are you trying to reproduce it?

casey

today is already a great day. Finally figured out how to get a great espresso shot out of my new machine.

terdon

1:37 PM

@casey Pfff, mocha for ever!

Ramesh

This new one is pretty well covered here. Should we close it?

terdon

@Ramesh Yes, done.

casey

@terdon I have a knock-off Moka, but lately I can't seem to get a good cup out of it. Always over-extracted and off flavors.

plus, Moka can't froth milk :)

Ramesh

@terdon Thanks.

casey

I picked up a $100 DeLonghi machine and it works great

terdon

1:43 PM

@casey Ah, no, but I don't like my milk frothed. If you don't get good flavor from it, you might want to change the filter. Also, you're not actually washing it right? You should never wash it with soap.

casey

@terdon only water, and i take it apart as completely as I can

and used a long pipe cleaner type thing to scrape some old sludge out of parts that I can't clean directly

in any case, after a few days with the new machine I'm getting cups of espresso better than anything I got out of the (fake) Moka

perhaps if I had a real italian one... :)

slm

Gilles closed this as a dup of this. The OP is asking to have it reopened since they're slightly different contexts to the Q's. Thoughts?

terdon

@casey Fair enough then. I still prefer what I get out of my old bialetti over most anything but a full scale machine.

slm

@Braiam if I have some spare time, but probably not. Those repo php Q's are a bitch.

casey

@terdon I'll be happy to admit that I probably never got the proper technique down, but I also do like my cappuccinos (and my wife likes lattes) so being able to steam/froth milk is a plus

slm

1:52 PM

@terdon - BTW congrats on the site wide 100k

casey

I'm starting to get delusions of doing that myself @slm. Hmm 20k wasn't too hard, and I only need to do it 4 more times...

slm

@casey - the mental trick I used was to simply try and pass ppl on the list. Also I was dared by co-workers that I couldn't do it, and was bribed w/ free lunches when I got to various levels, rather than try and go right for 100k, I'd go for the 25k, 50k, 75k, since those are nice watermarks to hit and it's similar to your logic of "if I can do 20k, why not 40k"

also that gives you natural outs if you don't want to keep going.

so if you get to 25k you can stop and still feel like you accomplished something

casey

@slm yea, I just target "get on page X" of the all time rep list

except on aviation.se where I'm not happy unless I'm in the top row (which I need 600 rep to get back onto)

terdon

@slm Thanks :)

Braiam

2:11 PM

I
wonder
how
much
I have

slm

@casey I have the same tick

Also I've been plagued with the I like to have my badge counts ending in a 5 digit. I've been watching them incessantly for God knows what reason. I'm at 15g 111s and 234b.

slm

2:40 PM

did any of you look at the dup Q I posted above?

Faheem Mitha

@slm You should try for the number of the beast.

slm

ha

Braiam

@FaheemMitha yeah, 69

:P

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam That's a sex position. I think the number of the beast is customarily 666.

terdon

@slm They do seem like dupes.

slm

2:57 PM

yeah, did you see the OP's comment? @terdon

terdon

@starfry I may be missing something but the answers of the duplicate are basically the same as the ones you have here. Namely, tee and creating a separate file descriptor. The other question is asking the same thing also, how to get the output of a part of a pipeline. I don't see the difference you refer to but that may just be my own ignorance. If you still feel that it's not a dupe, please post a question on Unix & Linux Meta where it can be discussed. — terdon ♦ 7 secs ago

slm

I'm inclined to leave it too, they seem like dups. I think the confusion lies in you having to have some basic knowledge of file descriptors to understand that patricks' tee trick is essentially the same thing as 3>&1

Faheem Mitha

3:28 PM

How do I find all files of the file *.py in a directory? find . -name *.py doesn't work

terdon

@FaheemMitha Quote it.

find . -name '*.py'

Faheem Mitha

@terdon oh. why?

And thanks.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Because otherwise, the shell expands it as a glob before passing to find.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon oh, right.

Thanks again.

terdon

You're welcome.

Anthon

3:45 PM

@terdon just wanted to flag that new post "That is not going to work if there are .dotfiles in his folder" and only got the option to notify a moderator. I thought WTF, then opened the question and did see you had deleted that answer 15 seconds beforehand %-)

terdon

@Anthon :) Someone else had flagged it before you.

Enjoying your 10k viewing privileges I see.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha lets wait and see meta.askubuntu.com/q/12138/169736

Anthon

@terdon WIthout the 10k priviligites I would probably have noticed that the answer was gone anyway ;-D

terdon

@Anthon Ah, but not that it was I who deleted it!

Faheem Mitha

4:00 PM

@Braiam Good luck with that

terdon

@Braiam you might want to tone it down a little. I think you're right but it does come across as a bit aggressive.

Braiam

@terdon where it's aggressive?

paragraph?

I'm using many "please", no?

slm

I thought it read OK

Seth

Seems reasonable enough, but you start out pretty aggressive.

Anthon

@terdon That's true

Braiam

4:11 PM

@Seth again, where?

Seth

> Seriously guys. Each time I check the apt and dpkg tags I'm filled with grief...

> This has to stop.

Ramesh

@terdon, unix.stackexchange.com/questions/162730/…

Braiam

@Seth it has to stop

@Seth that's not aggressive, those are my real fellings

Ramesh

you are asking if the input file is,
A B
C E
B C
C D
F G

Seth

which are apparently coming across as aggressive ;)

Braiam

4:13 PM

if I start a conversation about a problem that cause me grief, is very likely that I will start with those lines

Seth

It's not a good idea to write like you have the only valid opinion in the world.

Even if you honestly think you do.

Ramesh

So essentially your comment means what needs to be done for those cases. Am I correct?

Seth

@Braiam Well then don't complain when you get downvotes on meta 8-)

Ramesh

@terdon ^^^^^

Braiam

@Seth I don't, I complain that is very frustrating that people focus on the way I talk and not in the issue I point out

the first isn't important, the later is

Seth

4:16 PM

No matter how utopian you think, that isn't the way it works. He can be right as rain but make people disagree with you based on your tone, body language, etc. That's just the way the world is :/

Braiam

I don't care of the way people talks as long as they say the truth, I don't judge a book for its cover

Seth

Good for you then 8-)

Braiam

but that don't alleviate my feeling of frustration

terdon

@Braiam I am editing it to make the tone less aggressive. Feel free to roll back. I would, however, submit that giving people a lecture is not a good way to get yourself heard. In general, your AU meta posts are often like a parent admonishing children which makes you lose even when you have a valid point. Just saying you might want to think about it.

Seth

@Braiam Getting a good response might though, no?

terdon

4:18 PM

For example:

> I've written extensive guides about what information a question should have to provide the relevant answer/duplicate for most of the common problems of apt and dpkg. Here and elsewhere. Yet the situation in Ask Ubuntu doesn't improve.

That might have been a useful paragraph if you'd linked to these guides. As it is, it's just whining.

Seth

@terdon Yes, that is what I was trying to point out, but I lack your tact.

Braiam

@terdon I'm trying to teach something

Seth

In a lot of your meta posts it feels like you put the community down just because we don't do things your way or agree with you (even if you don't intend it). That starts you off on the wrong foot.

terdon

@Braiam There are many ways to teach. Having some random guy on the internet treat me like a child because said random guy believes he is more knowledgeable than I, does not make me inclined to listen to him.

Braiam

ok, how you point out someone mistake without making them feel bad?

is impossible!

terdon

4:21 PM

2 mins ago, by terdon

@Braiam I am editing it to make the tone less aggressive. Feel free to roll back. I would, however, submit that giving people a lecture is not a good way to get yourself heard. In general, your AU meta posts are often like a parent admonishing children which makes you loose even when you have a valid point. Just saying you might want to think about it.

:)

Seth

You're going about it wrong, it isn't a mistake, but a better way of doing things that will benefit us all in the end ;)

Braiam

people don't want them to be pointed what they did wrong, everyone feels that they are in the right, that's why there's the meritocraty

terdon

Damn, I only saw the typo after I one boxed :(

@Braiam Yes, and you are giving us a real world example of exactly that issue right now.

You can write as you like. I just think it's a shame since a lot of your meta posts raise valid points but you are so aggressive in them that my reaction is to ignore them.

Do you feel that my edit of your meta post changes its meaning? Isn't your point still getting across?

The very simple change of Stop doing X to Let's stop doing X makes a huge difference.

Braiam

as long as the objective is accomplished, I don't care about the means

I'm tired that nobody is doing anything

@terdon lets see this one that someone through it was aggressive, do you believe it is aggressive?

terdon

@Braiam No. First of all, it is about a blatant misuse of the system. Your point is much more subtle and requires some technical knowledge that most people won't have. Most of those mistakenly closing as dupes simply don't understand. Oli is referring to actively malicious users or robo reviewers.

Braiam

4:29 PM

@terdon me and my subtleties... why I couldn't be "normal"?

terdon

Also, Oli is a mod. He's been elected to represent the community and, among other things, admonish when things are going wrong. There is a huge difference between a community elected mod posting an admonishment to the community and a normal user doing it. Sorry.

Braiam

@terdon what?!?!?!?!?!?

I can't tell people they are doing wrong?

terdon

Of course you can.

Braiam

therefore I do

terdon

Just more politely is all. Note that Oli was not rude, he was just firm.

Braiam

4:30 PM

@terdon yet someone interpret it as aggressive

BTW, I agree with him, I saw it coming in fact

terdon

@Braiam Yes, but 1) after it had been there for a while and 2) for very specific reasons. More importantly, Oli raised a far, far, more serious problem. You are just talking about a relatively minor one, affecting one aspect of the site. You chose to do so in a very aggressive manner that reads like "I know best, you know nothing, all you idiots should do as I say"

I exaggerate a bit but that is kind of how it felt.

Braiam

@terdon you know that gold badgers holders have that power?

the "I know best, you know nothing" kind of vote?

terdon

@Braiam Yes, but they don't close with the message "You're an idiot, this is a dupe". I am discussing your tone.

Braiam

@terdon and I'm telling you that as long as what you say is true I don't care about the tone

terdon

And I honestly don't care if you believe me. I was trying to help since you've often wondered why you get so many downvotes on meta. I am telling you why. You can either choose to follow my advice which might result in your very valid point being heard, or ignore it and keep having your meta posts downvoted because people object to the tone and not the content. Your choice.

Braiam

4:33 PM

is simply, that I just ignore the tone when I'm talking or listening

terdon

@Braiam Well, the rest of society doesn't, you might want to take that into account.

Braiam

@terdon here we do

terdon

@Braiam No we most certainly do not.

Braiam

people acts in internet how they act in real life, you know?

terdon

@Braiam Yes, and if you used that tone with me in real life I would simply walk away from you and completely ignore whatever it was you were saying to me.

casey

4:36 PM

@Braiam here they do more than the rest of the internet. The rest can go hang out at 4chan all day and be internet bros

Braiam

@casey meh, I don't like to be that popular

slm

5:14 PM

@terdon that user mja still doesn't understand the difference b/w tcsh and bash

I thought I got through to him yesterday but apparently it's falling on deaf ears

terdon

@slm On first glance, I thought you were proposing a bash solution with for i in $(cat file) and I was all WTF slm? Then I looked more closely and understood :)

slm

pls

I'm like the only person that even noticed the tag

8-)

derobert

5:32 PM

I'm not sure there is a review queue for this... delete votes please unix.stackexchange.com/questions/55870/output-png-as-binary (trying to clean up the format tag)

BTW, after that, format will be down to 11 questions. So almost there!

casey

@derobert if it gets flagged VLQ it gets dumped into the low quality review queue afaik

but I don't see an option for that flag...

ah, apparently that flag can only be cast on open questions

derobert

Yep. There needs to be a delete vote review queue, like there is a close vote one

I added a downvote to the question, so I think now maybe the Roomba will clean it up (eventually). Not sure about that.

casey

i think the roomba needs the A to be negatively scored as well, but not quite sure

derobert

I wonder which model Roomba they use, anyway---none of the ones I'm familiar with have anywhere near a big enough dust bin to clean SO.

casey

5:48 PM

With 11.1k posts in the CV queue, they certainly need a bigger one

derobert

Indeed.

slm

@derobert - deleted

derobert

Either that, or a Roomba army. They are a military contractor...

@slm thank you

slm

Ugh this guy is friggin crazy

1

Q: Create a list of directories

I have a list of names in a text file (list.txt) I want to create a list of folders for the names included in that file. I wrote the following script, but it doesn't work and I don't know what is wrong: #!/bin/tcsh for name_id in `cat <path to list.txt>/list.txt` ; do mkdir <name_id>${name_id} ...

scripting tcsh

He just unaccepted my A which is the only one that shows how to do X using tcsh for an xargs A.

I'm done helping!

casey

hah, you know its a good question when its already on hold when it pops up in the news feed

derobert

6:08 PM

LOL

@casey I'm imagining the first sentence of that question read in dramatic movie announcer voice.

casey

6:23 PM

hah

slm

@derobert - lol

casey

7:41 PM

finally.... debugging why jobs arent running on a supercomputer can be a pain. Parallelism achieved. 8 concurrent model runs across 512 cores

slm

@casey - so close to the fives

15g 112s 235b

casey

@slm but then a pesky bronze will come upset the balance!

slm

yeah, I actually had it once but forgot to take a screenshot

Faheem Mitha

8:08 PM

Hi guys.

Hi @derobert

Wow. Flamefest much?

derobert

8:24 PM

@FaheemMitha Hey

Faheem Mitha

@derobert What's happening?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha oh boy. I'm holding out against systemd. I hope that by the time I have to switch away from sysvinit a better project will have emerged.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Do you think that is likely?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha I don't know

Ubuntu's given up

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Hmm. You don't like it?

I should post a question entitled "Does systemd suck?" and see how fast it gets closed.

Gilles

8:27 PM

@FaheemMitha systemd? From what I've seen so far, no.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Well, the answer is obviously "yes, but less than the alternatives". Like all software :-)

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I see. You should write a blog post about that. How about it?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha I don't know enough about it!

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I know software that doesn't suck.

@Gilles Well, you could write about what you don't like. How about an executive summary?

derobert

@FaheemMitha That's the infamous bug that resulted in, e.g., lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420

Faheem Mitha

8:30 PM

@derobert oh. I remember seeing the LT comment/post, but I don't remember the bug report.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha that bug report you cited is a prime example.

> + BUG_ON(!strcmp(current->comm, "systemd"));

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles ok

slm

9:29 PM

systemd doesn't suck

it's complicated but it doesn't suck

Faheem Mitha

We should get a contrasting pair of blog posts. "Systemd sucks"/"Systemd rules".

slm

I have no time to write a blog post

@FaheemMitha - perhaps you could do one of them?

Gilles

I composed a question, first body then title. The title turned out to be exactly identical to an existing question on the site, except for punctuation.

Weird, I hadn't found that in a Google search.

I don't often do bounties because they tend to bring out the crap, but here goes

4

Q: Drop a specific file from the Linux filesystem cache?

I know I can drop everything from the Linux filesystem cache, but is there a way to drop just one specific file? Or prevent a file from being cached? Or tell a process not to cache any files it writes? I have a process that reads a lot of little files and writes a big file. I want to keep the...

linux files cache

Faheem Mitha

@slm I didn't necessarily mean you.

@slm I know nothing about systemd.

"We're Going to Die!"

Ramesh

9:52 PM

@Gilles Not sure if this tool does the process.

From their home page, we could remove a single file as in this example.

    vmtouch -ve a.txt
    Evicting a.txt

           Files: 1
          Directories: 0
          Evicted Pages: 42116 (164M)
          Elapsed: 0.076824 seconds

Gilles

@Ramesh ah, thank you. vmtouch wouldn't really be suited for the job but the way they do it has to involve something that would answer the question.

Ramesh

@Gilles ok. I will try to look into their code. Not sure if I would understand. But I will give it a try.

slm

►

blooper reel

Gilles

> On Linux it uses posix_fadvise(2) with POSIX_FADV_DONTNEED advice to inform the kernel that the file should be evicted from the file system cache.

Does that actually discard the page, or merely favor it for reuse?

Ramesh

It seems unreliable.

Gilles

10:00 PM

I want it for benchmarking, so I need the guarantee that the page is no longer in the cache (I guarantee that nothing else on the system is using it)

Ramesh

-e

Evict the mapped pages from the file system cache. They will need to be read in from disk the next time they are accessed. This is the inverse of -t.

Note: Even if the eviction is successful, pages may be paged back into memory by the time the vmtouch command completes.

Ramesh

10:12 PM

@Gilles, does this help?

Gilles

@Ramesh no, not at all. I want to remove stuff from the cache, not prevent it from getting there.

Ramesh

10:25 PM

Not exactly sure if this helps. But neverthless just wanted to let you know. I see there is nocache for debian systems.

And it has an option as cachedel which is described as,

cachedel calls posix_fadvise(fd, 0, 0, POSIX_FADV_DONTNEED) on the file argument. Thus, if the file is not accessed by any other application, the pages will be eradicated from the fs cache

@Gilles ^^^

Gilles

10:46 PM

dammit

I was specifically after the title question: dropping a file from the cache

and now someone has answered the fallback question, preventing a file from getting into the cache in the first place

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Do you have an actual application in mind, rather than just theoretical interest?

Gilles

46 mins ago, by Gilles

I want it for benchmarking, so I need the guarantee that the page is no longer in the cache (I guarantee that nothing else on the system is using it)

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Oh, pardon me.

Gilles

I should have posted my question, duplicate title be damned

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles You could still do so.

Gilles

10:50 PM

@FaheemMitha I might, but I'll wait until the bounty ends

if people don't answer the part I want, I'll edit that question and ask mine

Faheem Mitha

Sounds reasonable.

Anyone here using scons?

Faheem Mitha

11:02 PM

Does a makefile mention phony targets in its help?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha it certainly should

I don't see why phony targets should be less documented than non-phony

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Oh.

Does it need to be configured to do so?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha what do you mean?

help isn't a built-in concept for makefiles

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I'd ideally like the make call to be self-documenting. Ie typing make -h or maybe just make gives a list of targets.

Hopefully with some information about them.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha if you want to do that, you need to define a target (which may be the default target) and build it yourself

Faheem Mitha

11:07 PM

How on topic are make questions here? I guess they are mostly programming related.

Gilles

:: helps for that, so you can write each help line next to the corresponding code. You can also do it with +=

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles not sure I follow. i need to define a target to produce help commands?

@Gilles Ok.Never mind, I'm using scons. Was just wondering how makes behavior compared.

Gilles

help:: ; echo "target1 does some stuff"
target1:
        do some stuff

help:: ; echo "target2 colors green ideas furiously"
target2:
        color --furiously ideas/green

@FaheemMitha again: make has no built-in help feature

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Oh, I get you. I actually need to define a help target. Got it.

does anyone have a good recommendation for writing shell inside python?

Faheem Mitha

11:30 PM

Anyone here familar with LLVM and its IR?

Braiam

11:47 PM

mm.... the heck is this?! lhartikk.github.io/ArnoldC

go home linkedin, you're drunk http://t.co/lsEOdpjmhD

Tweeted by adymitruk on September 14, 2014 at 7:02 AM

Gilles

LOLCODE

LOLCODE is an esoteric programming language inspired by lolspeak, the language expressed in examples of the lolcat Internet meme. The language was created in 2007 by Adam Lindsay, researcher at the Computing Department of Lancaster University. The language is not clearly defined in terms of operator priorities and correct syntax, but several functioning interpreters and compilers already exist. One interpretation of the language has been proven Turing-complete. == Language structure and examples == LOLCODE's keywords are drawn from the heavily compressed (shortened) patois of the lolcat Internet...

slm

2

Braiam

@slm nope

Faheem Mitha

@slm Definitely not.

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