The Bikeshed

4:49 AM

This is getting problematic, all questions that were asked the last 24 hours are now closed.

All questions that were asked during the 24 hours before that are either closed or have at least 3 close votes.

@Gilles they could at least check if you maybe have already used meta (on this site and on others) and adjust the mail accordingly. Not that I minded much, it didn't seem all that patronising to me.

ArtOfCode

7:43 AM

@overactor last 24 hours: 5 asked, 3 closed gives 60% close rate. 1 dupe, 1 too broad, 1 opinion based.

overactor

@ArtOfCode I only see 3 asked

ArtOfCode

close stats say 5

overactor

weird, of the 5 newest questions, 4 are closed

ArtOfCode

Well one of these counts is wrong :) probably stats, given caching...

overactor

@ArtOfCode damn caching

overactor

8:04 AM

Meta Data is slow today.

I posted a meta question 10 minutes ago, still not here

how often does it check, every 15 minutes?

Meta Data

0

Q: Are we getting "Good Subjective, Bad Subjective" right?

Quite a bit of our questions have (at least at some point) been closed as primarily opinion-based. I adapted a query that shows all posts that were closed with that reason, ranked by total votes. At the time of writing, there are 19 questions in there. (Though at least one question, namely How do...

overactor

there we are

Meta Data

0

Q: Meta Open Source doesn't appear on the Android app

The android app does show the main Open Source site, but does not display this meta, even when searching for it. Since it's already a public beta site, and since the main site is available, this seems like a bug to me. (Not sure if this should be reported here or at MSE. Since this question is a...

support bug

overactor

8:31 AM

@curiousdannii I like that edit

that's a good edit

curiousdannii

8:43 AM

@overactor Thanks, but the credit goes to you for changing it to a less subjective question!

Hopefully now it can be a bit of an overview question

overactor

I realized the title set a subjective tone for the entire question.

Eric Gärtner

9:07 AM

The votes on meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/368/… and the answers look clear to me. Who will change the tags accordingly?

ratchet freak

@EricGärtner a mod could add the synonym or someone with the rep requirements can suggest one

Eric Gärtner

who has enough rep?

ratchet freak

I made the edit suggestions so they should be in the edit queue

Eric Gärtner

thanks

did you retag one question? I think other questions must be retaged, too. And the synonyms msut be created. I ask all users with enough rep to do this.

ratchet freak

I retagged them all but I don't have enough rep so they went into the review queue

Eric Gärtner

9:17 AM

I see, thank you

Gilles

@EricGärtner A mod will do it, we don't have mods yet, wait a couple of weeks

Eric Gärtner

:( That's a rather slow start. We discuss a lot of things on meta and none can be applied because no mods are ready.

The name is still not changed, too, even though the result of the discussion was very clear.

Mnementh

@EricGärtner I have enough reputation overall, but couldn't suggest the synonym, as you need at least 5 votes in the tag, which I don't have :-(

Eric Gärtner

sigh

Gilles

@Mnementh forget about the vote mechanism for tag synonyms, it's not usable except for high-volume tags on SO where all the useful synonyms already exist.

ratchet freak

9:26 AM

low volume tags need mods

Mnementh

nods

Gilles

@EricGärtner What discussion? We've never reached a consensus on a site name change, and SE was against it so we'd have to show a strong, united front to SE

Eric Gärtner

The votes on meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/a/303/490 are clear to me

Gilles

@EricGärtner The top proposals have score 7 and 5 respectively. That's not a consensus, it's practically a tied vote.

Mnementh

@EricGärtner Actually they aren't. The suggestion of open source got more upvotes, but also more downvotes than Free&Open.

Eric Gärtner

9:29 AM

details?

Mnementh

We should give the discussion more visibility, because the longer the site is around, the harder to change the name

9

Q: Alternative site name brainstorming

Since there are still many people unsatisfied with the current site name, I thought it would be good to have a centralised place for some brainstorming. If you have any ideas, please post them below! And please vote up and down the options you like/dislike. This is not the place to argue for any...

discussion neutrality site-name

Eric Gärtner

bump it :)

Gilles

@EricGärtner Look at Community Building for an example where the change in the site name was quasi-consensual

meta.communitybuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/140/…

meta.communitybuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/175/…

meta.communitybuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/193/…

And they still haven't fixed that hotlinks to the meta site aren't inboxing. The site name broke something.

Eric Gärtner

OK. So there is not enough traffic in both the site and in meta. In fact, usage of the site is going down. Shall we wait until many more people come to this site? Then all of these discussions will long be forgotten.

Gilles

On that first thread on then-Moderators.SE, everybody who answered was in favor of changing the name, and all the proposals revolved around a single theme.

And even then it took 4 months to enact.

overactor

9:34 AM

@Gilles quite something

Gilles

@EricGärtner Usage going down is normal. There's the euphoria of the early beta, then when it gets down to organic growth, that takes time.

22

Q: What is the typical growth pattern of a new beta site in the first few weeks?

I've been involved with matheducators.stackexchange.com and a little bit with expatriates.stackexchange.com. I've noticed that both had very high activity during private beta and then about half as much activity during public beta (which makes sense, because people are trying to get the site goin...

discussion beta-phase beta-sites

Eric Gärtner

Contributions from the Free Software camp will not come until at least the site name is neutral.

overactor

@Gilles I wonder how many times you've had to post that here so far

Eric Gärtner

and I think that's not the normal dwindle after the first enthusiasm

overactor

I'm counting 3 so far

Gilles

9:36 AM

@overactor I post that several times in each beta I participate in

All betas start with the same false expectations

@EricGärtner Do you have an objective reason for that, or are you just complaining because you aren't always getting your way?

Eric Gärtner

beg your pardon?

Mnementh

@EricGärtner I doubt that. Some people will be reserved, but others will be willing to participate even if the name is open source

I think the closed-source software is a bigger obstacle for many, but nothing we can do something useful about (except starting to write an alternative software)

Eric Gärtner

true

Gilles

@Mnementh If people are so sectarian as to refuse to participate because the site is called “open source”, we're better off without them

@EricGärtner You've spent considerable energy attacking people who use the term “open source”

Eric Gärtner

Dismissing arguments as sectarian is pretty easy. How about trying to understand the arguments?

attack? where?

Mnementh

9:43 AM

@Gilles Maybe, I'm not sure, they still can be great additions to the community. I would prefer a more inclusive name.

Eric Gärtner

I insist that it is Free Software and Open Source and that there is a difference

Gilles

@EricGärtner I understand the arguments. Dismissing disagreement as “you don't understand me” is a well-known fallacy whose name I shall not bother to look up.

Eric Gärtner

very good

Gilles

@EricGärtner Yes, there's a difference. But it's an extremely minor one. It does not matter to the extent that you should exclude anybody who uses the term “open source”.

Eric Gärtner

that's your opinion. To other, the difference is at the core

Gilles

9:44 AM

Furthermore, different people mean different things by the two terms, and these differences overweight the differences between the terms.

Eric Gärtner

and nobody is excluded for using Open Source

Gilles

After all, the OSI definition was derived from the DFSG... FS as in Free Software.

Eric Gärtner

that's the linguistic argument

well, we will not agree on this. I just want to bring the topic to your attention

please don't ignore it

Gilles

@EricGärtner You have my attention. That's the problem. You have too much of my attention.

Eric Gärtner

I pity yo

you

Mnementh

9:48 AM

Can you both please stop it? I don't want you two start a fight here. Eric has done some irritating stuff the past days, but currently I see him working constructive.

If the difference between FS and OSS is big or small depends on the viewpoint and how important the philosophical standpoints are for you. But I see most people in both camps accepting to be more or less on the same side.

2

Being on the same side can still include massive discussion about philosophical things involved.

2

6

Q: What are the philosophical differences between open source and free/libre software (if they exist at all)?

In the answers to this question it was shown, that a few licenses exist, that are only open source but not free software or the other way round. Still, most licenses are both or neither, so the overlap is very big. But the communities around open source are distinctive and both strong, and some ...

philosophy

Meta Data

11:18 AM

0

Q: Please, be civil!

An normal constructive discussion in chat at some point escalated and became a personal fight. In my opinion we have place for constructive discussions, even if the participants have strongly differing opinions. We can't accept personal fights. I don't care who escalated first or who said what, I...

discussion

Meta Data

11:44 AM

0

Q: Importance of the difference between open source and free software

The fight that was happening earlier in chat, was in parts about the significance of the difference between open source and free software. So what's about that? Practical view: Looking at it from an practical angle, the differences are insignificant. Most licenses that are free software are also...

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