The Bikeshed

Pandya

2:13 AM

@Mnementh revised that and included notable points from OSI history and FAQ.

Stack Exchange

4:10 AM

If you're not completely satisfied with the phone after 30 days, we will return you to your home at no cost.

overactor

6:40 AM

Hi all

ArtOfCode

@overactor morning

overactor

@ArtOfCode How are you today?

ArtOfCode

@overactor All the better for it being Friday. You?

overactor

6:56 AM

@ArtOfCode not bad

I just asked a question:

0

Q: How do I ensure my documentary adheres to Open Source principles as closely as possible?

The question Do open source movies exist? made me curious about Open Source movies. It seems like most Open Source movies are animated, which makes sense since you can make all content yourself and assure it's licensed appropriately and making additional content is feasible for other people. Sup...

Does it look okay to you?

hi @Mnementh

Mnementh

hi

ArtOfCode

@overactor now that is exactly the kind of question we want more of round here

Mnementh

I agree

Also nice my questions spawned already another question

overactor

@Mnementh It really got me interested

@ArtOfCode I'm worried it might be on the wrong side of broad...

but I'm not sure how to narrow it down

maybe it's fine like this though

Mnementh

7:12 AM

@overactor Nice, that was the intention

Yesterday we had so low activity, lower than all the time before (in 16 days)

I guessed some questions would bring more activity.

overactor

@Mnementh That's normal I think though

Mnementh

@overactor: Still I don't want it drop too fast and too far

a basic activcity is good

overactor

@Mnementh you're right

Mnementh

your question is good, but needs some time to answer (google and stuff)

overactor

it's exactly why I asked this question

Mnementh

7:14 AM

I cannot answer now, maybe not today the whole day

overactor

@Mnementh I'd rather have a late excellent answer than a quick one

@Mnementh That's fine

Mnementh

If it doesn't get a good answer today, I will try tomorrow

overactor

we're doing well, traffic-wise

Gilles

@Mnementh that's absolutely normal

it typically takes years to rise back to the frenezy of activity of the private beta

22

Q: What is the typical growth pattern of a new beta site in the first few weeks?

I've been involved with matheducators.stackexchange.com and a little bit with expatriates.stackexchange.com. I've noticed that both had very high activity during private beta and then about half as much activity during public beta (which makes sense, because people are trying to get the site goin...

discussion beta-phase beta-sites

overactor

7:30 AM

I wonder at which Question:Day ratio we will stagnate

Area51 puts us on 12 now, but it's been lower the last few days

does 7-ish seem like a fair guess?

Gilles

12 q/day is graduation level

Mnementh

12 is average

Gilles

7 would be extremely active for an early beta

Mnementh

yesterday we were below 10

without my questions we would have been below 5

Gilles

stackexchange.com/sites#questionsperday

Mnementh

7:32 AM

@Gilles so many below even 1 per day

thats ouch

overactor

@Mnementh well, small perpetual betas are a thing now on the network

Mnementh

our average will drop below 10, i hope we stay above 5

Gilles

keep in mind that quality is more important than quantity

Don't ask bad questions just for the sake of asking more question. If you can't think of a good question, don't ask anything.

overactor

@Gilles That should go without saying.

Mnementh

@Gilles keep in mind, that with fleeing active users you will not get spam flagged

If activity very low, only a few users frequent the site at all, and they will look at it very seldom

About questions: I wanted to ask one more, but didn't know how

Gilles

7:36 AM

@Mnementh if what little traffic there is is good, people keep coming

it's when what little traffic there is is bad that you have a problem

Mnementh

As I said at another time, most questions I can ask here, I can also answer, so I did knew open source movies exists, but I saw that we had nothing about moview so far, thats why I asked

@Gilles: Question drives traffic (good questions yes) - but seemingly all my question yesterday found positive reactions

The thing I wanted to ask about, was the MIT AI lab and the Emacs-story, both that did drive Stallman towards creation the Free Software Movement

But I couldn't come up with a good question

Maybe one of you have an idea

Gilles

questions about a concrete problem that you're now facing in an open source project you're involved with

Mnementh

@Gilles: Go on, lead the way with good example

Gilles

@Mnementh >>TODO echo 'Participate in an open-source project and arrange to have concrete problems to ask about on OS.SE'

Mnementh

@Gilles :-)

Gilles

7:42 AM

that's my point, we need questions that aren't artificial

overactor

@Mnementh Well, he's saying you should ask a question when you actually have one stemming from working in open source

@Gilles not exclusively though, I'm sure you agree.

Gilles

@overactor not exclusively, but that should be the majority

overactor

But preferably, yes most if not all of our questions should be genuine

Mnementh

@overactor Yes, I know what he means, but frankly, we would have 2-3 questions by now instead of 275, if we would adhere to this.

overactor

I think early beta is special though, there are plenty of valid questions to ask that didn't come up naturally

@Mnementh maybe that's a bad sign?

Mnementh

7:45 AM

@overactor I agree, later on with more users the natural questions will come

@overactor I think it is to expect, more users, more natural questions

overactor

we'll see how it evolves

Mnementh

bye

overactor

@Mnementh bye?

curiousdannii

8:55 AM

0

A: Create a help/on-topic page specific to this community

I'd like to suggest a different approach than what I've seen on most sites: rather than having a list of topics I think it would be wise to first define the core topic of this site is about. I think it's important to state that except in the rarest of questions "open source", "free" and "libre" a...

My draft for the on-topic page. It's quite different from Ziz's, but I think it will help to be upfront about our site's neutrality.

overactor

@curiousdannii That seems great, +1

The first paragraph seems a bit wonky, but I can't quite figure out why I think so

I'll reread again

curiousdannii

The first sentence is too long

I'll see if I can come up with something better. As I said, first draft ;)

overactor

I'm also missing something about producing, distributing and managing these projects without putting the focus on the community

curiousdannii

@overactor What do you mean, questions how single-developers can do that?

overactor

your third on-topic point seems to imply it's more about collaboration than managing the projects

curiousdannii

9:01 AM

Heh. What is managing an FLOSS project if not managing the collaborations?

What sort of things do you think "management" covers that aren't collaboration? I'll add them in

Mnementh

@overactor had to go away from computer

Pandya

Which should be on topic en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_%28disambiguation%29?

overactor

@curiousdannii marketing for instance

as I said, I think it's a very good start

I'm nitpicking really.

curiousdannii

@overactor Thanks :) And nitpicking is what this process is for! We can always change that page later, but we'll want to get it as good as possible the first time

overactor

It's not so much what you say, but the phrasing

curiousdannii

9:04 AM

@Pandya We want to be as inclusive as possible

overactor

How do they collaborate, while relevant, doesn't seem to be the main focus

it's more what they collaborate on

curiousdannii

@overactor by "collaboration" I'm thinking of the questions we've seen about pull requests, how to encourage new collaborators, how to deal with people whose collaborations are not actually helpful, how to deal with people posting bug reports in the wrong places etc

overactor

How about just:

collaborating to produce, manage and distribute these projects

or is that worse?

curiousdannii

Hmm. 'manage' is kinda generic I think - better to explicitly say 'marketing', 'monetization' etc

And I think mentioning 'communities' somewhere in it is helpful.

I'm adding a line saying how these projects can be marketed and monetized

overactor

@curiousdannii that works too

curiousdannii

9:11 AM

and let's see what other's say. Edits are welcome!

Pandya

@curiousdannii And may I ask your opinion on first question of this?

curiousdannii

"I retracted my +1 because of your edit." :(

@Pandya Well once we've settled on a new name (if we do) then it would be appropriate to change the icon

overactor

@curiousdannii hmm, maybe it's not necessary then?

curiousdannii

@overactor Who knows. Hopefully he'll explain why.

overactor

Am I wrong or are there virtually no questions about the marketing and the organization aspect? Most questions are either FAQs or heavily constructed to test the boundaries of common licenses. — Eric Gärtner 7 mins ago

curiousdannii

9:17 AM

@overactor Ah, well that may be a true generalisation (though there are probably more than he realises) but it doesn't explain why it shouldn't be mentioned in the on-topic list. Especially as most of us want more variety of questions!

btw, how do you post a comment like that?

overactor

@curiousdannii click on the timestamp and you'l get a permalink to the comment

Post that in chat and chat will onebox it

curiousdannii

ah, I didn't know you could do that with the permalink

Meta Data

9:40 AM

0

Q: Change tag linux-distribution to gnu-linux-distribution

The tag linux-distribution shall be renamed to gnu-linux-distribution. Reasons: Virtually all distributions running the Linux kernel run a lot of software developed under the GNU project. See also the extensive FAQ from the FSF about this topic.

discussion retagging tag

ArtOfCode

On-topic/off-topic guidelines while we don't have a help center.

@curiousdannii Nicely written. I've changed our pinned topic guidelines to that because it's a bit more comprehensive.

Meta Data

11:36 AM

0

Q: Should we copy questions from the GNU GPL FAQ

I noticed the question How to license program output? which is a verbatim copy of an entry of the GNU GPL FAQ. Naturally, the current top answer also quotes said entry of the FAQ. Should we get content for this website by simply mirroring content from official FAQs? Are we even allowed to do t...

discussion question-quality plagiarism

Mnementh

12:16 PM

why do i get notified by the flags from other chatrooms?

ratchet freak

@Mnementh because you have the rep to judge them

Mnementh

@ratchetfreak Just rep? I find it somewhat irritating, as I don't know the context

ratchet freak

@Mnementh that's why I usually say not sure

Mnementh

@ratchetfreak did that just now too

I could read into the context, if i wouldn't be read the chat on the side while at work :-)

curiousdannii

12:36 PM

@overactor @ArtOfCode I revised the first paragraph of my on-topic draft, so hopefully it's clearer now. Feedback still welcome!

Meta Data

-1

Q: Let's not answer FAQs

Most questions about licensing that have a relation to the GNU licenses are already answered in the extensive Frequently Asked Questions about the GNU Licenses. But almost none of the answers to such questions refer to this FAQ or just add a comment to the question saying that it is a FAQ and not...

discussion

overactor

@curiousdannii reading

I think it's an improvement

I'd +1

curiousdannii

@MetaData Such an odd proposal - it's arguing against the core goal of the whole SE network!

overactor

but I already have

Meta Data

-1

Q: Should we copy answers from the GNU GPL FAQ

(Follow up to Should we copy questions from the GNU GPL FAQ): I noticed the answers copy verbatim of entries of the GNU GPL FAQ. Should we get content for this website by simply mirroring content from official FAQs? Are we even allowed to do this copyright-wise? The page the quote comes from ...

discussion

overactor

12:49 PM

@curiousdannii my thoughts exactly

ratchet freak

and once we have them answered others can be dupe closed

curiousdannii

@EricGärtner It seems like you have some pre-existing beef with SE. I can respect that, not everyone has to like every website there is. But I'd suggest you let those who like the SE process continue doing so without tearing them down. To your credit I'm not seeing you do that anywhere on the main site, just here on Meta, but still, Meta should be a place of constructive criticism. — curiousdannii 34 secs ago

An attempt at a placating comment... I don't know how well it will be received

overactor

@curiousdannii I get a weird vibe from his comments as well

On main he seems to be deliberately asking basic questions to somehow prove that what we're doing is useless

curiousdannii

Meta is a place for discussion. The main site is not about Free Software or Open Source. It does not have the problem this site haves: How can a community that claims to honour values like Freedom use a proprietary platform that is destroying communities elsewhere by drawing all attention? — Eric Gärtner 4 mins ago

Open Source.SE - destroyer of communities

I think we have a new slogan

overactor

@curiousdannii That's catchy

curiousdannii

1:05 PM

@overactor And then complains when his no-research questions are downvoted opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1016/…

overactor

@curiousdannii I don't quite get it

curiousdannii

OH. I just noticed that he is not just taking questions from the FSF's FAQ, but is actually directly copying them word for word. That's plagiarism.

Anyone know how to get a CM's attention?

is there a chat room or something?

overactor

@curiousdannii Not really

mods can superping though

we can flag

curiousdannii

actually, I may be mistaken about saying they're copied word for word

overactor

@curiousdannii how close is it though?

curiousdannii

1:12 PM

Is there some way that I can license the output people get from use of my program under the GNU GPL? For example, if my program is used to develop hardware designs, can I require that these designs must be free? -> Is there some way that I can GPL the output people get from use of my program? For example, if my program is used to develop hardware designs, can I require that these designs must be free?

Bold bits are identical

non-bold is rearranged with a tiny reword

overactor

pretty sure that's plagiarism

curiousdannii

it's plagiarism, but it's not a pattern worth reporting to the CMs, so I'll just post a comment

all the other questions are sufficiently different

Though it's hard to take the first sentence of this answer seriously now lol opensource.stackexchange.com/a/954/190

overactor

@curiousdannii yeah, it almost seems as if he is doing a satire of SE

curiousdannii

@overactor I just read this new question, thought it was by the same guy, and then got confused when I couldn't find an identical question in the FSF FAQ haha!

@ArtOfCode You saying that our purpose is getting traffic has given him something to support his arguments with :P

Pandya

1:48 PM

An example why Debian prefers GNU/Linux @Mnementh

curiousdannii

@Pandya A page which can't decide whether to stick with calling the OS GNU/Linux or whether a straight 'Linux' is okay too!

Pandya

@curiousdannii I am not forcing to call/stick with GNU/Linux BUT as the title of question ask "Why do some people refer to Linux as GNU/Linux?" I gave an example only

overactor

@curiousdannii how are teh discussions going?

curiousdannii

It seems our FSF loving friend is trying to teach us of the evils of Stack Overflow's search engine dominance

Zizouz212

Yep, and he refuses to come to chat...

trichoplax

2:01 PM

Are alternatives offered?

Zizouz212

Anyways peeps, how's life! :)

trichoplax

Life is the most amazing thing I know of.

overactor

life is good

trichoplax

The user you are talking about joined 2 days ago and also joined Stack Overflow 2 days ago. Despite the impression that they are against Stack Exchange, they've posted 6 answers to Stack Overflow.

overactor

Also, I made a funny:

Bot started.

This command will flip anything you throw at it. Syntax: >>flip something

ArtOfCode

2:04 PM

>>flip table

overactor

@ArtOfCode (づ⇀ਊ゜)づ︵ǝꞁqɐʇ

hmm, l doesn't work...

Zizouz212

Guys, please explain me the irony in this: meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/330/…

ArtOfCode

@curiousdannii I know >:( I'm about to invite him into chat to discuss this.

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode I already have, he's refusing

overactor

@Zizouz212 wow

Bot terminated.

Zizouz212

2:06 PM

I know, I'll find his response

trichoplax

@Zizouz212 Nice work with the deliberate typo to detect copying ;)

Zizouz212

Not even that, but the wording was exactly the same!

curiousdannii

well if he keeps plagiarising we won't have to deal with him for much longer

ArtOfCode

@Ziz see my comment under yours

When we get mods... especially if I'm one of them...

Let's just say plagiarism annoys the hell out of me.

Zizouz212

Yep, advocating against plagiarism when you're doing it yourself...

curiousdannii

2:07 PM

it's not allowed anywhere on the network

we should probably ping a CM

trichoplax

@ArtOfCode Who said that?

ArtOfCode

We don't got none to ping, because they haven't been around.

curiousdannii

and everyone should flag any of his posts which are plagiarised

ArtOfCode

@trichoplax Who said what?

Pandya

Note: "We in the free software movement don't think of the open source camp as an enemy; the enemy is proprietary (nonfree) software. But we want people to know we stand for freedom, so we do not accept being mislabeled as open source supporters." - by rms

Zizouz212

2:08 PM

Let me find a similar meta post on quote answers...

trichoplax

@ArtOfCode Sorry - poor joke

ArtOfCode

But yes, absolutely flag plagiarism

curiousdannii

@ArtOfCode It would be possible to ping them somewhere else perhaps

Zizouz212

20

Q: New Aviation Site Design!

Good news everyone, it was discussed on the Stack Exchange podcast, and we now have a site design. This should be rolling out as soon as we can get the design spec converted into workable CSS. Completed layout: If you have any comments before this is finalized, please let me know. Design con...

discussion status-bydesign design

ArtOfCode

@curiousdannii Best method of getting hold of them is flags. 'Sides, if there're lots of flags, they're more likely to give us mods to deal with them.

Zizouz212

2:09 PM

Oh sorry wrong one...

7

Q: Link-only answers are discouraged - what about quote-only answers?

User TylerDurden brought up that link-only answers were discouraged in a discussion about this answer being a quote from wikipedia. I'm of the opinion that answers should include at least a tl;dr or paraphrase of the quoted content, rather than just copying wholesale out of, say, Wikipedia — but...

discussion

Pandya

I think instead of discussing political reviews, we should focus on development and awareness of Free and Open Source Software

trichoplax

The person you were discussing appears to be (currently) confrontational, but also knowledgeable and of benefit to this community.

I'm hoping we turn out to be a community that doesn't scare off people who get a bad initial impression.

Zizouz212

Geez, the neutrality debate all over again...

ArtOfCode

I'm hoping we do as well, but there's a balance between that and not letting people keep their incorrect assumptions and impressions.

trichoplax

As @Zizouz212 pointed out, the plagiarism appears to be ironic. If that's intentional, it may only be to make a point and may get better

curiousdannii

2:12 PM

@trichoplax Eh, we can all read the FSF FAQ ourselves. I haven't seem him give much more than that

Zizouz212

@trichoplax I doubt that, he's advocating against plagarism, when he is doing it himself... ah the irony.

ArtOfCode

Oh, hang on, more plagiarism: my answer here has been copied verbatim to his answer here.

trichoplax

@curiousdannii It appears that this is also deliberate to make a point. I don't like that way of making a point, but it is a fair point which we've already made ourselves. Hopefully we can get past the confrontation and find a way to get better questions

Zizouz212

What?

overactor

What he seems to be doing is purposely acting badly and then pointing at himself saying "Look, SE is full of bad behavior!"

curiousdannii

2:14 PM

@ArtOfCode flagged

Zizouz212

Fliggermajiggers!

@overactor I'm a little inclined to agree

trichoplax

He will either turn out to be a problem that needs to be removed, or a rough start to a useful contributor. Until we find out which, let's try asking what he suggests

curiousdannii

-5

Q: Let's not answer FAQs

Most questions about licensing that have a relation to the GNU licenses are already answered in the extensive Frequently Asked Questions about the GNU Licenses. But almost none of the answers to such questions refer to this FAQ or just add a comment to the question saying that it is a FAQ and not...

discussion

@trichoplax I think this is his main suggestion

Zizouz212

@EricGärtner That's besides the point. No one cares about licensing and attribution here, we care of general mutual respect for others and we need integrity here. — Zizouz212 44 secs ago

overactor

But then why is he asking and self-answering FAQ questions?

Zizouz212

2:17 PM

@overactor Again... more irony

trichoplax

@curiousdannii Thanks - will read now

overactor

Is his goal to make sure that if they are asked, they link back to the GNU FAQ page?

Zizouz212

It's a good incentive, secret unlikely spam

curiousdannii

I'm surprised my answer got two downvotes: meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/a/337/190

ArtOfCode

I've cast a detailed mod flag on an answer detailing multiple instances.

trichoplax

2:18 PM

@overactor It appears to be simply to make the point

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode Thanks :D

ArtOfCode

@curiousdannii I'll guarantee one is from him. My answers on his questions are also DV'd.

overactor

I've raised a few flags where it seemed appropriate as well

I'm not sure what I expect mods to do though

Zizouz212

I won't spam the cms with flags then :D

They might place him under suspension

overactor

@Zizouz212 Seems likely, but I'm not sure if that's the best course of action

ArtOfCode

2:20 PM

I've also edited the citations in.

curiousdannii

I'm quite sure he'll be suspended within a day

ArtOfCode

Maybe not. They are fairly likely to tell him to stop and see what happens, though.

Zizouz212

@overactor I don't see how else we would stop it. It could be a message at first though

overactor

maybe he'll lose interest if gets suspended

worth a shot I suppose

Zizouz212

If it continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see a suspension

overactor

2:21 PM

It's a shame we don't have our own mods yet

ArtOfCode

We need them...

curiousdannii

@ArtOfCode Might depend on which CM answers the flags :P

ArtOfCode

True. Some are harsher than others.

curiousdannii

if enough of his posts get deleted he might get auto suspended though

I'm not sure if it's actually helpful to edit in attribution then.

Zizouz212

The posts don't warrant deletion, as they're attributed.

At least his self-answers on the main site

curiousdannii

2:22 PM

@Zizouz212 I meant his ironic ones on Meta

ArtOfCode

I've edited in the attribution so they fit the BY-SA. The revision history still shows the unattributed versions

Zizouz212

Yep

I would just leave the meta posts alone.

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 I mean attribution on the metas.

On principle.

Zizouz212

Yep, now I'm starting to understand what's happening :)

overactor

None of his individual posts are bad enough to really deserve to be deleted by themselves

ArtOfCode

2:24 PM

I haven't actually checked any main site posts.

overactor

well, maybe the ones copied almost verbatim from the GNU FAQ

Zizouz212

The main posts are quote answers, shall I start a meta post on that?

curiousdannii

@Zizouz212 There already is one

Zizouz212

On quote answers?

ArtOfCode

Quote answers still need attribution... is there any?

Zizouz212

2:25 PM

The main posts have links to them

curiousdannii

@ArtOfCode Could you make a pinned star thingy for the site name brainstorming question: meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/300/…

ArtOfCode

Alternative site name brainstorming: meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/300/…

done

A star helps too :D

4 stars already xD

Thanks!

2:26 PM

Do we need the mod-nomination post pinned still? It certainly was useful; has it outlived its usefulness?

overactor

It seems like it's going to be Free & Open

@ArtOfCode New members should see it

curiousdannii

@ArtOfCode Probably not a chat pin because it's got the featured tag

ArtOfCode

True

Ah, true

Featured'll do it

overactor

@curiousdannii Ah yes, I thought we were talking about the featured

in chat is indeed useless at this point

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode So did that flag get answered on the open info post then?

ArtOfCode

2:28 PM

@Zizouz212 Yeah, it's marked helpful, but it didn't get a featuring

Zizouz212

lol

curiousdannii

@overactor I'm pleasantly surprised how many people like that one!

@ArtOfCode I flagged the name suggestions one too, it got marked helpful but also not tagged as featured

Zizouz212

Wow

curiousdannii

well it's been fun not being the one causing the controversy

but it's time for bed

overactor

@curiousdannii it's been fun having you back

ArtOfCode

2:35 PM

Night :) It's still 3PM here

Zizouz212

10:35 AM here :D

overactor

you should reconsider undeleting your mod nomination

you had my +1

and I think you showed mod qualities over the last hour or so

curiousdannii

@overactor I'm thinking about it, but Art was correct that mods need to keep their cool at all times

overactor

if you don't want to that's perfectly fine of course

@curiousdannii yeah, all caps is a no go for mods

curiousdannii

@overactor If only we had small caps formatting? :P

ArtOfCode

2:37 PM

@curiousdannii Do think about it. Everyone does lose their cool at times, and I'm sure you can refrain from doing so here. If you can, I think you would make a good mod.

overactor

@curiousdannii *yells quietly*

ArtOfCode

*whispered shouting*

overactor

I'm half considering if I want to take a shot at being a mod, but I'm rather certain I wouldn't get picked...

Zizouz212

Go for it!

ArtOfCode

@overactor Why so certain?

You never know if you don't try

→ 57 messages moved to Chatbot Dev

apsillers

2:52 PM

On the topic of FAQs: I think the FAQ questions are fine (i.e., they are on topic), though I wouldn't be shocked at no-research downvotes

the quote-only answers are not good answers, though (but again, they're not NAA)

ArtOfCode

Downvote-worthy, not delete-worthy.

apsillers

right

ArtOfCode

Anyway, @overactor, why so certain they wouldn't pick you?

trichoplax

Following the discussion about Eric Gärtner, I get the impression that the confrontation escalated due to frustration on both sides, and I've seen much the same happen between existing members of the community in the past, which gets resolved ones things quieten down and discussion can continue.

I had a chat to him in the comments, and he seems very reasonable.

ArtOfCode

*cough cough*

trichoplax

2:58 PM

There are misunderstandings in any community - but we seem to be dealing with it just fine

ArtOfCode

Generally, yes

trichoplax

Even without mods, which says a lot for our community

@ArtOfCode You seem to be doing a good job of unofficially moderating though :)

ArtOfCode

I hope so :) I like it around here, we're all friendly, and the topic's interesting (if at times controversial).

trichoplax

It's worth discussing because it's controversial. You can sum up the topic in a sentence but there's so much subtlety to it. I'm really glad we made it to public beta

Although the approach to making the point caused conflict, I do agree that we need more good substantial questions. I'm thinking I should pick an open source project to start contributing to so I can stumble across some subject matter for good questions

ArtOfCode

@trichoplax That... sounds like a good idea. You can always hop over and help us out with an open source SE chatbot :)

trichoplax

3:05 PM

In a way I'm glad there's been conflict. It's not pleasant at the time, but I think it's healthy for a community to have the memory of there having been conflict that didn't stop people getting along afterwards. It's encouraging.

@ArtOfCode What language are you using?

ArtOfCode

@trichoplax Python. Very nice for chatbots.

trichoplax

@ArtOfCode Excellent - I'll actually have some idea what's going on then. Will have a look :)

ArtOfCode

Cool :)

The link goes to the dev chatroom

Meta Data

3:23 PM

-2

Q: Can this site run on the proprietary platform SE?

Applying my question on the main site to this site itself: Can this site, which is trying to be a community for Free Software (besides other topics), run on a proprietary platform (SE)? Which part of the Free Software community can and will find this acceptable?

discussion

ratchet freak

@MetaData now he is just trolling

ArtOfCode

Don't be too certain of that... it is a valid question, just asked at an unfortunate moment.

Zizouz212

Geez... Neutrality debates again!

ratchet freak

@ArtOfCode with the way his recent meta questions were?

it's the same guy

ArtOfCode

Aye, I know, but it is a valid point.

trichoplax

3:35 PM

He clearly feels strongly, but I recommended asking more questions on meta rather than the ironic main posts, and he's taken that on board. Disagreeing with a meta post doesn't make it a bad meta post - I'd like to see answers discussing this.

ArtOfCode

@trichoplax and that was the correct recommendation. I'm glad he's interested in how we run, I just disagree with a lot he has to say.

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode I feel the same way

ArtOfCode

@EricGärtner - just to say, disagreeing with a meta post doesn't make it bad. I am glad you're interested in how we run the site. — ArtOfCode 14 secs ago

trichoplax

I agree with some of his points and disagree with others, but I think even the ones I disagree with belong on meta so future visitors with the same opinion can see at a glance how the community feels.

ArtOfCode

Absolutely, I'm not going anywhere near deleting them. Metas.SE/SO have some heavily downvoted posts that are still very useful to them, and the posts here feel like that kind of thing.

trichoplax

3:43 PM

We're not being as welcoming as we could be because of our conflict of interest - we don't want to see our fledgling site fail, but yes I think these posts are part of building our site.

kdopen

4:22 PM

The only thing to be wary of is starting a political/holy war

Which these quesitons, taken as a body of work, are beginning to feel like

If you consider that the major difference between FSF and OSI is idealogical, that type of schism attracts people 'looking for a cause" .. and they take every opportunity to get on a soapbox.

ArtOfCode

Yep. Well when we get our mods, I'm going to ask that they pay especially close attention to that. We can't and shouldn't tolerate such arguments here. Constructive, friendly debate is OK, but argument has no place here. Since we've got a bit of a hot topic, our mods are going to need to watch out for this happening.

kdopen

And I'm thinking a site specific close reason would be useful

ArtOfCode

Aye, that it would. Something like

Questions that are seen as provocative and likely to start arguments are not accepted here.

Possibly with something about being a neutral site and needing to maintain that neutrality.

kdopen

yes, should I post a meta about it? How to we get that passed onto the mods?

ArtOfCode

Aye, post on meta. I don't know if mods can add custom reasons...

If the consensus is yes, then flag it for mod attention. If we've got our own mods by then, they can get in contact with SE and ask for it; if not, SE'll pick up the flag.

kdopen

4:35 PM

typing as we speak

1

Q: Custom close reasons for this site?

We are currently running with a default set of reasons to VTC a question, or for flagging. Should we also have some custom reasons? If so what might be suitable?

discussion

Hopefully this meta question can act as a collector for any others we come up with

ArtOfCode

Aye, that would be good. We can point people to it if they ask about custom reasons.

Meta Data

4:56 PM

2

Q: Custom close reasons for this site?

We are currently running with a default set of reasons to VTC a question, or for flagging. Should we also have some custom reasons? If so what might be suitable?

discussion

ArtOfCode

@MetaData why are you so slow?

kdopen

@ArtOfCode and if it answers you, it will take a while :)

ArtOfCode

hehe

I won't expect much

Notice: I'm away over this weekend. If you can't get a response from me, that's why. ~~Try not to miss my moderation too much.~~

kdopen

Oooh, the cat's away

ArtOfCode