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1:11 AM
@Mnementh Congratulation for achieving 2k (2000) reputation on opennsource.SE
Area 51 recommends 10 users with 2000+ for healthy beta, currently 1 user :- @Mnementh is.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:23 AM
@Pandya That's for a public beta though
 
 
2 hours later…
8:18 AM
1
Q: Where is [old arcane project] now maintained, maybe as a fork under another name?

Nicolas RaoulImagine a highly-specific open source library whose website has disappeared, or has been abandoned. Is it on-topic to ask whether the project still lives somewhere else, maybe as a fork under another name? It can be very difficult to find even with good Google skills. Example csharp-sqlite is t...

 
8:32 AM
Has everyone checked out:
9
Q: Are licensing posts going to dominate Open Source?

JamenAfter looking in the "Tags" page on the main site... I've noticed that out of the top 5 tags, 3 of them are licensing tags (license, creative-commons, and licensing)... The top tag on the site being the license itself... Not only what's state above, but the license tag (with 55 questions at ...

?
(and casted their vote on it)
 
8:43 AM
Yep. I think we'll have a fair number of licensing questions, but there will be others.
Ooohhh dear. @curiousdannii is back on his editing spree :)
@curiousdannii I challenge you to get me to 20 edit reviews today
 
9:04 AM
@ArtOfCode Not likely to happen now that only my tag edits need reviewing ;)
 
@curiousdannii I've already reviewed those...
 
And there are few tags without descriptions now
You know, I don't really agree with the no definition tag wikis rule... sometimes terms could be misleading and it would be better to have the tag wiki than nothing.
 
If terms are misleading then do explain them, but just for simple things like 'licensing', defining what it is isn't as helpful as saying when it should be used.
 
@curiousdannii the excerpt should be the how to use this tag while the wiki should be allowed to have a definition
 
 
2 hours later…
11:03 AM
I'm really surprised that the high number of licensing posts is surprising to some people :)
And one question about a different topic has just been closed as opinion-based ;)
0
Q: Which communication channel is favorable if I am making my project open source?

RanveerI am thinking of making one of my projects open source and I am thinking which communication channel to use. Mailing lists are great, but less on interactivity, IRC is high on interactivity, but generally intimidating to newbies and Gitter.im in non-intimidating, interactive and good looking, but...

My answer becomes anecdotal quite fast, I admit that - but then, listing examples what works for the commiunity and what doesn't is probably the point
I don't see this as a "drop names of services I can use, tell me about methods and their advantages, disadvantages and experiences with them"
I would see "too broad" as a possible close reason, but overall, this seem to be the kind of community question that many are hoping for
this is where you want big floss projects chime and and describe their experience and benefits, or failures
+in
 
@MichaelSchumacher It was opinion based though, but I think it could be rewritten to be better
 
11:18 AM
out of curiosity, could a answer to a "what is better?" question along the lines of "as the follwing two sociological studies show, there is indeed a "better" that does not depend on opinion..." prevent such questions from being closed?
I don't have that there, really just curious
 
@MichaelSchumacher Better is still too opinionated.
If someone asks "what is better?"
and then says, yeah but one is actually better, so the question is valid.
then why did they ask?
And if you want to self-answer a question like that, it's still better if it's not phrased that way
you can perfectly answer a question like "What are the advantages and disadvantages of X in relation to Y compared to Z?" with:
Here's a study that shows that X will literally kill babies if you do Y with it, use Z instead!
 
 
2 hours later…
1:08 PM
@overactor well, killing babies might be an intended outcome of an open-source weapons system
but... I'm not sure what that is supposed to tell me... bear with me, 38°C here....
 
it's too warm in europe at the moment
 
@ratchetfreak is it ever
@MichaelSchumacher The point is that no matter what the answer is, a more neutral question will always be at least as good (and 99% of the time, better) than a subjective one
e.g: Which is better?
because the objective answer to "which is better" is almost always "depends"
 
1:25 PM
@MichaelSchumacher See my newest comment on the question
 
1:47 PM
@MichaelSchumacher by the way, I've discovered what my "issue" is with the Free Software people thing. I might be reading this wrong, but what I seem to taste from a lot of you comments is that free software zealots will not use this site if we don't sufficiently cater to their POV
I'd argue that's a feature, not a bug.
this shouldn't be a place for zealotry
from any side
 
1:58 PM
@Martijn are you prepared to declare this the Open Source Initiative Stack Exchange site?
this is how the easily available information that can be gathered makes it look like at the moment
mentioning the OSI and being approached makes it look like you want them to set the policy
 
@MichaelSchumacher fsf and CC have been contacted too now
 
Add open knowledge foundation to that too
 
@MichaelSchumacher no, I don't think the OSI branding would be a good idea, and definitely not at this stage
nor do I think FSF branding would be a good idea, not that that is on the table, or that there is any chance it will be on the table any time soon
 
is anyone of you directly involved in a software project that is licensed under sany of the licenses dicussed here, and also involved in spreading the ideas behind them?
 
I usually license all my personal software under GPL, and and any libraries I develop at my job that are not our core product but utilities, I push to be permissively licensed
which sometimes happens, sometimes not
but I'm no advocate either way
 
2:04 PM
I'm kinda interesting in one of the cm's comments...
 
@MichaelSchumacher Well if you count these chatbots, yes
@Zizouz212 Which?
 
I'm finding it...
 
as I wrote in a comment - I would not have committed to OSI.SE
 
This answer feels somehow... unfortunate. I thought Open Source would be more about the movement and methods: the distributed, collaborative effort where programmers work jointly to create something and share those changes with the world. There must be logistical issues about how to coordinate and promote those efforts — how to coordinate larger distributed teams; how they innovate, and how to organize groups of peers who have probably never met. Licensing is a small part of what this is all about and we already have a site for that. — Robert Cartaino ♦ 2 days ago
And comments here on after
 
I'm mildly a Wikipedia advocate though, where we have all content in CC-BY-SA/GFDL and most code GPL
 
2:06 PM
not that I do dislike them or such, but it would simply not be in line with my idea of Free software
this comment mentions the movement explictely
if you want movement-related content, but discard the very ideas of the fsf as zealotry...
 
So what's happening with all of these organizations? Everyone is up to support contact (@ArtOfCode and I are handling that), but then when it comes to changing the site, it's all funky and weird...
 
Right. We need to get this sorted. I'm going to get hold of Robert Cartaino and ask him to drop into chat and talk it over with us. OK?
 
what I am trying to prevent: that people from OS.SE meet organizations like the FSF unprepared
 
unprepared?
 
like: "you write Linux everywhere,. can you change this to GNU/Linux?"
what would be your reply?
 
2:10 PM
I think the biggest thing against us is time. In an ideal world, I see us getting this all done before we move public. We're quite prepared with what to say, and we have all of the points. The community is just trying to come to a consensus on a seemingly controversial post
 
I am sending an email to Robert.
 
or like the "Open Source" vs. "Free Software" thing - Ive seen a comment or answer that describes this as a sublty, hard to miss difference
 
I don't discard the very ideas of the fsf as zealotry. I discard zealotry as zealotry. And yes, I do regard positions that reject answering questions about free software on a site where questions about free software are part of the scope because they believe that it's inherently against the goals of the movement to do that on a site that is named open source zealotry
 
One of the things that bugs me though, is the extreme disparity between this post - +8/-0 - and this post - +9/-7
2
 
2:13 PM
as I would consider any answer that says free software is in all cases superior to open source because everything that is not free software is inherently evil zealotry
and I suspect (no evidence) that there is a correlation between the two
 
How so?
 
@Martijn you are netitled to any opinion - but do you understand why people consider this to be an issue?
 
@MichaelSchumacher the name of the site? Yes. This is why I support a more inclusive name and scope
 
I am in favor of Free Software licenses over Open Souce licenses
I disagree with the FSF on a number of topics
but I understand why they are very important for them
 
I consider it an issue, but I don't consider it the end of the world. And I think the people who do consider it the end of the world (again, no evidence) are likely to give answers that don't score well in the neutrality department
 
2:18 PM
But I feel that if the issue isn't sorted out, then it could haunt the site in the end...
We don't need a similar "Free Software" site in se
It would just become too problematic
I've tried to find common ground between the two, and propose a neutral environment for them to grow. That was the baseline of the proposal
 
OK. I've sent Robert an email asking him to drop into chat and discuss scope and reaching out with us when he's got some time.
 
@MichaelSchumacher the thing is, almost all free licenses are also open source licenses. nuances (WTFPL, zlib?) aside, free software is a subset of open software
 
@ArtOfCode Thanks. I'm sure he'd be able to help us on this
 
@Martijn I am very curious about how the contact with the FSF will be
I have been surprised by them in different ways - sometimes more lax than I'd be, sometimes more strict
 
@MichaelSchumacher so am I. I have low hopes, especially because we're on a non-free platform, but I hope it'll be a success
 
2:23 PM
From the way the guy from the OSI described relations, I doubt we'll have much of an issue. But the site name might be a drawback
 
I do not care that much about using non-free platforms (this is where I am more lax/they are more strict)
 
RMS' work has been amazing. When he started the free software movement, it was exactly what the market needed. His ideas are often insightful to me, and often make sense to me.
and he wrote some amazing software
 
but actually, I was shocked to learn that SE isn't open during this proposal/beta :)
 
SE isn't open? what do you mean?
 
the source tha runs the site
 
2:24 PM
SE is propriety software
 
@MichaelSchumacher It's should be open, I agree, but it's not a huge deal
 
I don't think that's much of an issue, there are many things which are proprietary
 
SE's strength is not the codebase
not even close
 
SE's strength is the community that supports it, imo
 
@overactor it's not a huge deal to you, but I can imagine that it's a huge deal to Free Software advocates
 
2:25 PM
@Martijn to some, yes
 
But to many others, I'm sure they'd understand
 
and Free Software advocates tend to have a lot of knowledge about Free Software, so on the one hand we definitely want to get them on board
 
@Zizouz212 this "not a huger deal" is exactly the wrong comment to make in a discussion with the FSF
err, sorry, wrong attribution
 
?
Oh
:)
 
138
Q: Will Open Sourcing Stack Overflow Destroy Our Business Model?

Jeff Atwood Warning. This discussion took place during the Stack Exchange 1.0 days, when FogCreek sold Stack Exchange licenses for a fee. It is worth noting that Stack Exchange licenses are still being sold for intranet use. Important Caveattm: this is something we are merely discussing that m...

See that bounty? I agree that it actually should be open source
 
2:27 PM
I believe that question is, frankly, silly
 
But I know that SE would have good reason behind it. It could harmfully impact the company
 
@Martijn It was asked 6 years ago though
 
@Zizouz212 and "Oh?" is the wrong reply
 
At that point, it was a fair question
 
it's asking the community if there is a good business case to open source SE, while the community literally has no idea what SE's revenue model looks like
there is no way one can give an informed answer to that
 
2:28 PM
It would need to be ridiculously comprehensive in order to understand it
 
anything that has been mentioned in the past minutes here would make for a lot of interesting discussion with people from the FSF
 
apart from generalities which may be completely useless for the specific situation
 
what they might be disappointed about: that they have to tell people who are building a site to discuss FLOSS...
 
that's why we would really appreciate their presence
inb4 part2
Things I would be really happy to see from a FSF person: an answer about a free software or open source question along the lines of "From Free Software perspective ... defined rights ... enforces those rights ... that's why x, y in Free Software licenses is needed to protect those rights".
 
I would see the top-voted answer to that "should we open source se" question as an indication that SE is inherently evil towards floss, btw
 
2:34 PM
what I would be really unhappy to see: "Because software that is not free ... anathema to free software ... refuse to discuss .. never use non-free software"
 
@Martijn I'd like to see that too
 
I can see the FSF to refuse participation on the answer alone, even - I would disagree and be unhappy, but understand their position
 
oh, yeah, same here Michael
thing is, that's not something we can chance
well, not at this moment, from the scope of this site anyway
 
As long as we contact them, and we get a suitable response, then I'll be happy.
 
2:36 PM
Because at least it will be, well, we tried.
 
like I wrote, I just want the people here to be aware of the issues
 
And it sounds slightly negative, but if they refuse, there's not much we will be able to do
 
so we can argue about that until the cows come home, and all agree that it'd be nice if that wasn't the case, but it is, and that's where we currently are.
 
That being said, I still want the fsf to participate
 
if that's sufficient reason not to support us, I understand, and I'd be a little sad about it
 
2:37 PM
you are aware that the game to play is called dimplomacy, right - with any organization?
*diplomacy
 
no, I categorically reject that :P
this is why I don't do negotiations :D
 
please note that I have a really hard time to spot humor that is obvious to other people
these were jokes, right?
 
@Martijn That's one sexy looking site
 
I'll take that as a "yes"
 
2:41 PM
It's a joke, and I mean it nonetheless. I don't do diplomacy well, I do honesty fairly well, and in a negotiating environment, my side is better of with me doing honesty than diplomacy
and better still with not having me in the negotiation at all
 
gotta try that stuff out
 
honesty done well is more effective than diplomacy done badly. Diplomacy done well is more effective than honesty done well
I pick my battles
in this chat on this moment, I'm not concerned with my position winning, I'm concerned with honestly portraying my POV. Some may agree, some may not.
 
whoops, wrong chat
But I agree with your point of view
I'm not much of a negotiator
 
diplomacy of the level that is not appropriate here is not about lying, or withholding information
gah, s/not//
to me, it seems like it would rather be to know when to keep quiet, think, and answer while considering the other parties' views
 
3:48 PM
0
Q: Should "does statistical data for [X] exist" be off topic?

Trevor ClarkeI have seen many questions where people have ask a question with this formula. I while it may be difficult to the person asking the question to find this data the goal of this website is not to search google to find statistics, it is to explain things when people are unsure. This is why I thin...

 
4:30 PM
@trichoplax you most recent questions is a test for "how will very basic questions do on OS.SE"?
hrmf, typos...
 
Yes, that and "how much do questions need to be about open source projects?"
I'm trying to see where the boundary is between on topic and off topic
 
both questions are a bit short, and should most likely get "what have you tried/what was your research" comments
the firefox one could attract an [description of recent SF issue] answer
I will probably not write that answer in this case, being one of the parties involved in that case makes me feel that I should stick to official statements
the actual "safe place for firefox?" question is probably too nonspecific
the implied "why is this an issue for free software, where offering unsafe versions by third parties is legal" is interesting
 
5:14 PM
2
Q: How do we make sure that wording of questions and answers is kept unambiguous?

Michael SchumacherI'm seeing some questions and answers that contain ambiguous wording - for example, the use of "use" and "using" in the meaning of "licensing my software under a specific license" or keeping a project "accessible". When discussing licensing, the precise terms can sometime be very important - for...

 
posted on July 02, 2015 by masson

Once again the OSI and our Board of Directors will be at OSCON. Just like in years past, the OSI will again be strongly represented with presentations form our Board Directors, Affiliate Members and Individual Members, a booth in the Expo Hall and even a dedicated session on the "How to use OSI's resources to change the open source world. Here are just a few suggestions of activities to he

 
 
1 hour later…
6:32 PM
ziz
could u pls answer this
0
Q: Can you open source part of a database and keep another part open?

Trevor ClarkeSuppose I had a table in a database. This table contains user profile information. Each profile has: Name, birthdate, username, minibio, gender. My question: Suppose I wanted to make the "mini bio" column open source but wanted to keep "age" closed source, could I do this?

 
I'm not sure of an answer
 
is it a bad quesiton
 
It isn't, but I'm not sure what the answer to that would be
 
@TrevorClarke There we go
 
@Art has a mod responded to the flag yet?
 
6:36 PM
@ArtOfCode thx
 
@Ziz No. Interestingly, a mod has responded to a different flag I made this morning.
 
Really?
 
@ArtOfCode i have a question.... I am new to answering questions, I would like your opinion on my answer here:

http://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/489/when-to-use-a-ported-instead-of-an-international-cc-3-0-license/778#778
 
@Ziz yeah, I flagged a spammy comment and the flag's marked helpful and the comment's gone, but the flag on your post remains
 
wow
Time's not working with us...
Mods are on times side
 
6:39 PM
@ArtOfCode what do you think?
 
Organizations are on times side...
@TrevorClarke It's not the best of answers. Could you maybe expand?
 
16 messages moved from Chatbot Dev
@TrevorClarke You're looking at the advantages of internationals, instead of the advantages of porteds which is what the question wants
3 messages moved from Chatbot Dev
 
what is the bikeshed
 
1 message moved from Chatbot Dev
@TrevorClarke It's the site's main chatroom
 
@ArtOfCode is it better now?
@ArtOfCode can you look at my answer i edited it
 
6:46 PM
@TrevorClarke much
@TrevorClarke Let's keep discussions like these to the main chat, this room is about chatbot development
2 messages moved from Chatbot Dev
 
i asked in the other one but u didnt respond
but sure i can in the future
 
@TrevorClarke I moved the conversation over here and responded here :)
 
ok.. thx and can you and ziz look at this question... i think it is terrible
http://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/421/what-would-be-a-good-licence-for-computable-data-models
 
@TrevorClarke that's on-topic, but nobody's answered it yet
Anyway, I'm off.
 
What's up
 
6:56 PM
um
 
What was your reason for closure?
 
when do you think we may go into public beta
and what do you mean by "what was ur reason for closure?"
 
In roughly a couple days, but I'm going to ask for about 3-5 more days so that we can implement my proposal. So far, it looks like the community agrees
And on the question above:
> ok.. thx and can you and ziz look at this question... i think it is terrible
 
ohh i didnt close it... but the question is so opinion based, plus in the quesiton they did not even know what requirements they wanted so i couldnt have given a good answer if i tried
oh and i edited the answer you said could use more detail
1
A: When to use a ported (instead of an international) CC 3.0 license?

Trevor ClarkeThe reason you may want to use an international license rather than a ported one is for one reason: It is globally compatible. This means that anyone (almost anywhere) is subjected to the terms of your license. Dispite this ported licenses also have their advantages. For example they have been...

 
Let's see :)
 
7:01 PM
let me know what you thingl
think
 
It looks better
 
cool
thanks
 
no problemo
 
 
1 hour later…
8:22 PM
lol
what are you working on (like what part)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:33 PM
@Zizouz212 I don't think we should ask for more time in private beta. It's just as easy to mix up the scope early in public, and that's actually partially what it's for.
 
Perhaps
But then I at least want a decision as to if the site name will change
If this goes public then we change the name, it can screw up links, mess with what people think it is
When people discover that it's in public, and they advertise it, it will all of a sudden become irrelevant
 
10:08 PM
That's fair enough. Robert should be coming along to help with that soonish
 
 
1 hour later…
11:16 PM
Guys! If it helps, the new Stack Exchange blog is open source!
 
11:40 PM
And you can add Bosun, the SE monitoring system :P)
 

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