The Bikeshed

trichoplax

1:51 AM

@ArtOfCode Did you just start a gender edit comment with "Guys"? ;)

overactor

6:44 AM

0

Q: How to help a postgraduate student to write a book

What is the best way to help a weak student who has already completed her post-graduation but has also secured a result much worser than her expected result during the completion of graduation,to write a good quality book which shall be recommended to higher secondary level students after it gets...

research

and as a comment by the author:

THERE IS A NEW BOOK GOING TO BE RELEASED VERY SOON WHICH WILL BE ON THE PSUDO-HERMITIAN EFFECTS ON HUMAN BEINGS,AND SINCE IT WILL BE PRINTED IN TWO COLOURS (RED & BLACK),ALL STUDENTS OF CLASS 11(SCIENCE) WILL BE DEEPLY INTERESTED TO STUDY PHYSICS ONCE THEY READ THIS NEW BOOK,HOWEVER IF ANY STUDENT HAS ANY DOUBT REGARDING THIS BOOK,HE/SHE CAN DIAL +34489252871583 TO CONTACT ITS AUTHOR,SHE WILL DEFINITELY ANSWER TO THAT PARTICULAR STUDENT'S QUERIES/GRIEVANCES WHILE SITTING AND WORKING IN HER OWN RENTED OFFICE,PLEASE UPLOAD THE BOOK IN bhu.ac.in ON ITS RELEASE. — user355 6 mins ago

Why does this person not have a profile btw?

It looks like a user with a deleted profile, but his name was already unclickable before he posted that comment.

Gilles

@overactor it's spam, he's been posting that on many SE sites for a while

overactor

@Gilles I assumed as much, I flagged the comment as such

It wasn't immediately clear from the question, but something about it felt very off

How did he get on this private beta though?

Gilles

@overactor like everyone else, either he committed or he clicked through from Area 51

overactor

@Gilles Wait, you can just join a private beta once it's started?

I was not aware of this...

Gilles

@overactor yes, it's been that way for years

overactor

6:58 AM

OOH

not very private then, is it?

Gilles

originally you had to be invited, but then many people missed out because they only heard about the site because somebody told them when the private beta started

overactor

It makes sense

Gilles

@overactor the site isn't public: you can't just go and browse it, it isn't indexed by search engines

overactor

you still have to go through area51

Gilles

but we all know that this isn't a private site, in a few days it is going to be open to everybody

so it doesn't matter who can join now, if they weren't able to join now they'd be able to join in a few days

limiting to people who go through the hoops of visiting the Area 51 page and creating an account has the advantage of the private beta (only somewhat motivated contributors) without the downsides of the committed-only rule (missed on Area 51? Too bad, you'll have to wait)

overactor

7:02 AM

Now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense.

overactor

7:16 AM

@Gilles, should/can we delete that spam question?

Gilles

@overactor I flagged it. Later today (probably when the US wakes up) someone from SE will come along and delete the question

or if 6 people flag it as spam, it'll be deleted

overactor

I flagged it too

I wonder if others did too

Gilles

flagging the comment won't get rid of the question — technically it's only the comment that's spam, the question is merely spam bait, but the question should be deleted with the spam penalty anyway to train the spam filter

@overactor perhaps not, if you haven't seen that over and over again it isn't clear that this is a very persistent spammer and not merely someone who's very confused

overactor

I still don't get why his name is unclickable though...

Gilles

@overactor because he's already deleted his account

overactor

7:21 AM

@Gilles That was indeed my first impression too, but the comment gives it away I think

He posted that comment after he deleted his account though.

Gilles

I think he did that because it helped against the spam filter, his account is marked as self-deleted rather than destroyed as spammer

except that I think the spam filter understands this case now

@overactor he must have posted the comment before, there's probably some caching involved

overactor

@Gilles I guess he posted the comment and immediately deleted his account

could work out time-wise

overactor

7:34 AM

@Gilles, how do you feel about the future of this beta at the moment?

14

A: What are our main risks of not getting to public beta?

In terms of quantity, we're doing fine. A private beta should produce about 100–200 questions, and we already have 84 as I write, 63 of which are not closed. But quantity is not everything. Scope Almost half the questions are tagged license. Not all license-related questions have this tag, so ...

does that still sum it up?

Gilles

@overactor we have a few more non-license-related questions, but I still don't see a lot of future for the site

Another thing that doesn't bode well is that the site is taking a strong political bent. It's expected that open source aficionados would want to proselytize but this is the wrong place for it, you're preaching to the choir

and getting into wars about whether open source is the same as free is not good

Mnementh

@Gilles There are wars about this? There are questions, and rightfully so, obviously the terminology is unclear and open to misunderstandings.

Gilles

@Mnementh meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/13/… meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/158/…

And this shows that many people want this site to be for politics

Mnementh

@Gilles I disagree. This is no war, not asking which is better. The first question asks to include Free Software in the description. It can be discussed that this is useful, as obviously people are mixing up the different terms, so showing we are for questions about OSS, free and libre is not wrong IMHO. At least it can be discussed.

Second question asks if two tags that have terms that basically are identical should be synonyms

I don't see how this is political

The gender-specifics are more of a political question, but not related to open source, this question could be an all meta, or the general meta.

And I agree, SE shouldn't be the place to educate about gender mainstreaming, veganism, pacifism or creationism

But I don't see wars or proselytizing.

overactor

8:16 AM

@Gilles, I've got to agree with @Mnementh, those two questions you linked are a very far cry from wars or even being political, as for the gender question, this is obviously not the main point of the site but I think it warranted a discussion. You seem convinced that a site like this can simply avoid making political statements.

Maybe it's not worth the effort, but I'm not arguing that we make a statement where we used to be neutral, I'm arguing that we try to figure out what statement we're making and see if we're okay with that.

All in all, it's a question on meta with 4 votes in favor, nothing is decided yet.

Tiago Coelho

9:35 AM

hey guy someone

understand php and mysql?

overactor

@TiagoCoelho you'll have better luck over at the php chat

Tiago Coelho

dont have 20 reputacion ;_;

reputation

overactor

wait, how come you can chat here then?

@Gilles, any thoughts on the novelty stack exchange logo?

414

Q: Can Stack Overflow and Meta's logos be changed temporarily to the "#LoveOverflows" logo?

Stack Exchange just tweeted this image following the Supreme Court of the United States ruling in favor of gay marriage: #LoveWins #LoveOverflows Please can this be made the logo for a couple of days? I'm thinking Stack Overflow. LoveOverflow chat room for the more... off topic discussions...

discussion feature-request featured logo status-yay

Meta Data

9:57 AM

0

Q: How do we avoid "free as beer" vs "free as speech" confusions?

I saw a question about the categorization of "free software", assumed that the author means "free as beer" and answered it. The author commented that he meant to ask about the "free as speech" meaning and edited his question. He actually had linked "free software" to a definition, but I admit tha...

discussion question-quality

Mnementh

10:20 AM

@MetaData This can be a big problem, please provide your ideas.

Stack Exchange

10:59 AM

Otherwise known as Margaret the Destroyer, I will bring pain to the the Great One. Then again, maybe I won't.

overactor

@StackExchange Not particularly funny, is it?

Martijn

11:20 AM

@ratchetfreak do you happen to be around?

ratchet freak

@Martijn yeah

Martijn

From your comments I get the impression you're a bit peeved that I rejected your edit and then went ahead and proposed exactly what you did in your edit on meta

I'm sorry about that

sometimes I need a bit more discussion to help with my judgement

and the meta post provided that discussion

ratchet freak

no problem really

Martijn

ok, good then. Text only media lend themselves for a lot of misunderstanding, and especially the format of stackexchange that discourages extended discussion. Good for readers, not so good for staying on the same page with co-contributors

ratchet freak

though I do wonder why you thought that the distinction between free beer and free speech wasn't significant enough as an edit.

Martijn

11:36 AM

for this particular question, due to the context.

Free Software was capitalized and linked, and I thought that that, together with the statement that the asker was aware of the difference should give sufficient context for somebody who answered the question as to what they meant.

Turns out that assumption was wrong

I also didn't take the readers of the question into enough consideration

Zizouz212

12:19 PM

Hello!

overactor

Hi there

ratchet freak

@Zizouz212 yo

Zizouz212

@ratchetfreak I rejected it since it looked like the meaning was there. If the meaning was unclear, I would've approved it

But I know, it's tricky

ratchet freak

I made the edit mostly because I knew I muddied the water with my comment

Zizouz212

Ahhh. Sorry about that then, had I saw the comments, I likely would've approved it

If only you could see comments when reviewing suggested edits...

ratchet freak

12:26 PM

you can go to the question and find some context

Zizouz212

Yeah. Sorry about that. I'll make sure to keep an eye for things like this :)

ratchet freak

no problem

Zizouz212

So, how's everyone!

overactor

I'm good

and you?

Zizouz212

I'm good :)

overactor

12:36 PM

I made a meta post, the bot should bring it in soon.

Martijn

as should meta? (I don't see it there)

overactor

Speaking of meta, what's going to happen to the name of this chat now?

@Martijn caching?

Zizouz212

Also, who was the author of the Bikeshed?

overactor

@Zizouz212 I don't remember

Martijn

ah, there it is overreactor

overactor

12:37 PM

I'm a Bazaar supporter myself

Zizouz212

overreactor? I think it just overacts!

overactor

@Martijn overactor, minus the re

weird how often people read it liek that

not that I mind much

Zizouz212

It's the children...

overactor

Maybe they're trying to tell me something?

Martijn

heh. I suppose it's an unconcious thing :)

subconcious

Zizouz212

12:39 PM

Meta Data

Martijn

whatever :P

Zizouz212

1

Q: How can we get more experts into the private beta?

A few days ago we all agreed that the quality of our questions and answers could use some work. Many of us have been hard at work to fix this, and I feel like we've definitely broadened and thus improved the scope. And their certainly have been some pretty good questions. but I feel like the prob...

discussion site-promotion question-quality answer-quality

:)

overactor

I should totally start shouting at whoever misreads my name as overreactor.

@Zizouz212 Thanks Meta Data

Zizouz212

Your always welcome - [human] Meta Data

:D

Meta Data

1

Q: How can we get more experts into the private beta?

A few days ago we all agreed that the quality of our questions and answers could use some work. Many of us have been hard at work to fix this, and I feel like we've definitely broadened and thus improved the scope. And their certainly have been some pretty good questions. but I feel like the prob...

discussion site-promotion question-quality answer-quality

Zizouz212

12:41 PM

Damn it meta data

Martijn

basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2013/1/29/…

overactor

Do you think mentioning os.SE in os project we constribute to would be acceptable?

Zizouz212

Yes! But, I thought of something magical!

overactor

Magicians are the opposite of open source developers.

Zizouz212

I doubt we can do this, but change the user contributions license :)

overactor

12:46 PM

except for that guy ^

Zizouz212

lol

overactor

@Zizouz212 That would be something

a featur request maybe?

Zizouz212

But I see why they do that, to keep it uniform across sites, and cause CC is for creative works

I won't do that, because I feel like I wouldn't really support it, but if anyone else wants to, i guess it's up for grabs

overactor

@Zizouz212 How about the ability to optionally opt out of CC?

Zizouz212

I think I've outlined that here:

5

Q: Can I "Override" a licensing policy?

On many sites, especially Stack Overflow, I can't help but notice such amazing code snippets. However, they come with a "catch" designed by the author. With user contributions being licensed with the Creative Commons ShareAlike 3.0 License, many users try and "override" this by stating how they ...

license enforcement

overactor

12:50 PM

@Zizouz212 What I got from that was: you can add a license, but you can't get rid of the CC

Zizouz212

But I feel like the answer missed the user contribution policy

Martijn

@Zizouz212 how do you mean?

Zizouz212

Oh hello there!

Perfect timing!

Actually never mind, I've read it again and it makes sense :)

Martijn

I expanded it to explain that dual licensing is not overriding an existing license

Zizouz212

Thanks, it makes it much more clear

:D

Have fun with 15 points

overactor

12:58 PM

@Unihedron I noticed everyone left you hanging when you said hi 20 hours ago, so:

hi

Martijn

\o/ points

I'll use them immediately to buy some H$ to buy some HOpen Cola with \o/

Zizouz212

lol

Have fun!

The cola sounds really good

I don't know about the glasses though...

They're not open source!

overactor

6

Q: Should I open source trivial projects?

Sometimes, I'll start writing some code with no actual expectations about where it will end up or how useful it will be. Is there any point in releasing the code for a small project, mainly done for myself, which will likely never be finished? Or is it better to keep that code private? I'm look...

best-practice benefits publishing transition-to-open-source release

It's weird to have a question on 4 reopen votes

What does everyone here think?

I'm not sure if it should be on-topic myself

Zizouz212

Is it really? It makes sense to me

Martijn

I'm not sure either. Maybe a title edit can improve it. "should I do X" gives a rather subjective vibe

overactor

1:04 PM

@Martijn I do tend to oversensationalise my titles a bit

Martijn

what are the advantages and disadvantages to the public and the project if I do X is less subjective, but hearing that may be rather broad

Zizouz212

Is that better?

overactor

Are there good reasons to open source "trivial" projects?

maybe?

Stil short and snappy, but less loaded

I'm not asking whether anyone agrees with those reasons

good is of course a subjective term, but I feel that for a title it's not too bad

Martijn

+1

overactor

@Martijn for the suggested title?

Martijn

1:07 PM

yes

overactor

ok

That's enough for me

ArtOfCode

I like the idea of \o/ points. Maybe I'll make something to keep track of how many we all have.

Mnementh

@ArtOfCode What are \o/ points?

ArtOfCode

@Mnementh Martijn invented them

overactor

@Mnementh I too ask this question.

@ArtOfCode Oh you

ArtOfCode

1:12 PM

@overactor oh me?

overactor

yeah, as in:

ArtOfCode

so fabulous

OK that's my job when I get home, I'll make that

overactor

@ArtOfCode How does it work?

Or what exactly doe sit do?

ArtOfCode

It'll track how many points we all have. They can be arbitrarily awarded here.

overactor

can we award more than one at a time like

@ArtOfCode +17

ArtOfCode

1:16 PM

yep

overactor

Can we subtract?

@ArtOfCode -1

ArtOfCode

Some I think

No more than -5

overactor

can we multiply?

ArtOfCode

and probably no more than +20

Nah multiplying will screw the whole lot up

overactor

awww

only whole numbers?

ArtOfCode

1:18 PM

Nah decimals if you like

I don't know actually... does MySQL have a decimal type?

overactor

NaN, decimals if you like

ArtOfCode

Probably

overactor

It has doubles

floats too

we should get a daily supply of 10 points

ArtOfCode

Hmmm... CREATE TABLE points` (number DOUBLE(6))` seems to fail

overactor

And giving points subtracts them from yourself

Martijn

1:19 PM

Knowing MySQL, it probably has them, and automatically converts and truncates them from varchars

ArtOfCode

@Martijn so i can use a VARCHAR(10) and add and subtract to it?

overactor

taking points takes half from your own points

and you can't do anything that would put yourself under 0

ArtOfCode

@overactor sounds good, probably more than 10/day though

overactor

or move further negative

@ArtOfCode gotta make those points scarce

and they build up

ArtOfCode

hmm... can anyone write decent python?

overactor

1:21 PM

(I'd say you only get the points every day as soon as you post though.)

I can write bad python :]

will it be a chat bot?

ArtOfCode

Because this is going to need a chatbot

yes, yes it will

Martijn

@ArtOfCode ignore what I said, I was underhandedly dishing dirt on MySQL, not actually saying something insightful

ArtOfCode

aaahhh fair enough

enough

Stack Exchange

Open Source Initiative: The Open Information Security Foundation Joins Open Source Initiative as Affiliate Member

posted on June 29, 2015 by masson

Affiliation highlights commitment to open source technologies and the communities that keep them thriving. June 28, 2015 - PALO ALTO, Calif. -- The Open Source Initiative® (OSI) today announced that The Open Information Security Foundation (OISF) has been accepted as an Affiliate Member. “The OSI is excited to welcome OISF,” said Patrick Masson, General Manager and Director at the OSI. "Just …

overactor

@ArtOfCode press your up arrow

ArtOfCode

1:24 PM

@overactor now that is a useful shortcut

overactor

CREATE TABLE points (number DOUBLE);

That works, am I being dumb

Please tell me if I'm being dumb while I can still edit or remove my message.

That's a weird table though

Unihedron

hi

overactor

@Unihedron how are you?

Zizouz212

60 messages when I go and take a shower, what did I miss now?

Sounds like there's been fun without me!

overactor

1:39 PM

@Zizouz212 @ArtOfCode is going to make a bot that lets us judge eachother

2

Martijn

Matthew 7:1 You shall not judge, lest you be judged.

trichoplax

Could I have some opinions on this one?

-2

Q: What subject areas are in need of free and open source projects?

Many areas are already very well supported by free and open source projects. You can use a computer and access the internet using entirely non-proprietary software. Many scientific and mathematical purposes have free and open source solutions. However, I suspect there are areas that are not cove...

demand obstacles

Unihedron

@trichoplax I accept paypal and visa.

Jokes aside, be more specific on your problem. Don't just ask for help, ask for help on a specific thing you need.

trichoplax

Bitcoin?

Unihedron

only dogecoins and nyancoins are accepted in my crypto wallet

trichoplax

1:45 PM

I would like to know if people agree with the close reason of "primarily opinion based"

Especially following the comment that points out the opposite

It seems to divide opinion

Unihedron

If I were to speak, the question is both too broad and primarily opinion based.

Zizouz212

@overactor @ArtOfCode A bot that judges us?

@trichoplax I have to agree with @Unihedron

trichoplax

With some broad questions you can split them into several, or narrow down on a particular sub-topic. The purpose of this one is to help in narrowing down and identifying which sub-topic to focus on, which makes it difficult to see how to change it.

Unihedron

Yeah, exactly.

Mnementh

I voted opinion-based, because I see it is mostly opinion which areas need more OSS-projects.

overactor

1:55 PM

@Mnementh But whether people hold that opinion isn't opinion based

Martijn

I could see a possibly good question in the form area x has a demonstrable demand for open source solutions, but doesn't seem to have any. What impediments are there that cause this, but it still feels rather broad

overactor

If you are trying to sell cola, asking: "Do people think our cola is tasty?" is not only not opinion based, but a very essential question.

Unihedron

@overactor Yes it is.

@overactor The question is opinion based because questions on the Stack Exchange network should pertain to specific expertise.

overactor

@Unihedron Or research

Unihedron

@overactor There's nothing about research in fields of specific expertise.

Mnementh

1:58 PM

Maybe: 'Is there research or data in which areas OSS is badly represented?'

Unihedron

That's an entirely different question altogether, but this one can stand with sufficient background.

Mnementh

But as it is asked I read it as 'What do you think which areas need more OSS?' -> hence opinion-based

Zizouz212

So are we trying to go into a lot of statistics?

Unihedron

Why not? If that's what it takes to answer.

It's not like we don't have too many easily answerable questions.

overactor

@Mnementh That is indee dopinion based

@Unihedron Couldn't agree more

Pandya

2:01 PM

@Zizouz212 can you explain little bit more what should I do?

overactor

we need some that people can't actually set their teeth into

Unihedron

I sometimes stare at anime&manga.se and quietly laugh at how in-depth their answers are compared to the ones on opensource.se.

overactor

@Zizouz212 Statistics are an important part of marketing

Unihedron

1

A: What is this 'Japanese Secret Police' Furuya Rei is in? Are they a real police division?

Furuya Rei is a member of 「黒の組織」(kuro no soshiki = the black organization). I don't know what chapter or episode you are referring to, so I cannot verify the original Japanese for "Japanese secret police" used there, but: Yes, in real life there was a Japanese secret police along the same lines ...

All those links!

Zizouz212

Thats true

@Pandya Your answer seems link only. Can you include words of your own, or quotes?

Pandya

2:12 PM

@Zizouz212 ok. let me try

overactor

@Unihedron wow

Unihedron

@overactor What do you mean "wow"? This post isn't an outlier.

Zizouz212

@Unihedron anime?

Unihedron

@Zizouz212 You should read what I say:

11 mins ago, by Unihedron

I sometimes stare at anime&manga.se and quietly laugh at how in-depth their answers are compared to the ones on opensource.se.

overactor

@Unihedron I meant it as in: wow, you weren't kidding

Unihedron

2:14 PM

heh

the fact that you had a moment of doubt saddens me

Zizouz212

why

Meta Data

0

Q: How to avoid religious wars?

In chat it was brought up, that the site tends to become political. While I don't think that's the case I may overlook the things, so I ask how the community stands towards it. Also, how should we react against politics and advertisement towards OSS or holy wars between OSS and Free Software (or ...

discussion

trichoplax

-1

A: Questions about demographic imbalance

I feel this type of questions could potentially be a "boat programming" question. Read all about it here: What is the boat programming meme about? In short: this was a question on SO about advice on programming on a boat. Back then this question was a breakpoint in the discussion about this bein...

Martijn

@trichoplax what about that answer?

overactor

@Unihedron Well, I didnit really doubt, but believing and seeing are a different thing

trichoplax

2:26 PM

I just wanted to bring it to people's attention so it can have votes up or down

overactor

If we're bring attention to meta posts:

7

Q: Will "software" be an implicit tag for every question not categorized in another way?

Prior to the beta launch, there was discussion of whether this site would be limited in scope to open source software. The strong consensus was behind an answer that argues: If the scope does not include significant areas of interest to just the open-source world (licensing, hardware, DIY p...

discussion scope tags

what's the status on that one?

Zizouz212

That's a no way! Open source isn't just going to software, we've had examples of other things

Pandya

@Zizouz212 I've revised

Unihedron

@Zizouz212 open source coke

coke as in coca cola of course, have to keep it family friendly

Pandya

help to improve first para

overactor

2:41 PM

pfft, today has not been a good day for opensource.SE so far

Zizouz212

I think I'm going to worsen that with another meta post...

Zizouz212

3:00 PM

0

Q: How do we neutralize the site to be more accepting?

We've seen many issues so far on the issue of neutrality between things such as: the Open Source Initiative; the Free Software Foundation; Creative Commons and more; Don't get me wrong, the issue has sparked many meta posts (each word's a separate link). Since Area 51, there has been issue wi...

discussion scope site-promotion neutrality

Pandya

comparing google trends

trichoplax

@Pandya The results are somewhat different if the search terms are "in quotes"

The difference between a search for free software and "free software" is that free software will return any results with software and free in the article, in either order and not necessarily adjacent, such as we have software to free the whales

Meta Data

2

Q: How do we neutralize the site to be more accepting?

We've seen many issues so far on the issue of neutrality between things such as: the Open Source Initiative; the Free Software Foundation; Creative Commons and more; Don't get me wrong, the issue has sparked many meta posts (each word's a separate link). Since Area 51, there has been issue wi...

discussion scope site-promotion neutrality

trichoplax

@Pandya It's a surprising difference - the original graph show much higher incidence of free software than open source due to the inclusion of extra unrelated results. Restricting to the exact phrase in quotes shows a much higher incidence of "open source" than "free software".

ArtOfCode

3:16 PM

OK I'm back, and I'm about to start work on this bot

My bad Python will be interesting...

Zizouz212

Hey! I'm good at Python!

What's happening?

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 Then you can help

The bot that @overactor mentioned earlier

Zizouz212

Yaay! How shall we destroy the world?

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 \o/ points

Zizouz212

:)

ArtOfCode

3:19 PM

Arbitrarily awardable points. Sort of like karma for chat.

Hey this thing is actually really relevant. It's going to be open source, of course.

Zizouz212

Sure, let's start

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 let's take development discussions over to this room so we don't clog this up.

Zizouz212

Sure :)

kdopen

3:45 PM

@derobert I don't actually want to personally debate the question. I do think it should be discussed, and was trying to forestall the kneejerk reaction to close it by getting people to think a little

I'm not against having some of my questions closed. This is private beta after all, and we need to suggest some unacceptable questions to get a feel for our scope. But I don't think we can be a site about 'open source' and simultaneoulsy avoid some uncomfortable questions about it

ArtOfCode

@kdopen what are we talking about here?

kdopen

2

Q: Are there consequences of the "free as in speech" approach?

The Free Software Foundation denotes free software as being "Free as in Speech", and this is a reasonable way to differentiate itself from Open Source. It also attempts to create a relationship between the FSF's campaigns and the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution, which obviously is intended t...

freedoms free-software

and @derobert's comment that ', it sounds like you want to have a discussion—a back and forth—on the topic'

Zizouz212

I think that should be open :)

kdopen

If the actual question is written so that it seems I have a bias, I'm open to suggestions as to imporving it (or even edits)

derobert

Discussions are typically not what is done on the site—at least not on any of the SE sites I'm familiar with.

Other than discussions about the site itself, which happen on meta.

Mainly this is because the software barely works at all for discussions. E.g., it reorders answers—making following a discussion very difficult.

kdopen

3:52 PM

Agreed. But I was hoping to see multiple answers. Perhaps from just one side, perhaps from both. either way, the votes o the answers would tell us something

ArtOfCode

@derobert Perhaps so - but if that's the case, then the question's been closed for the wrong reason.

kdopen

@ArtOfCode Exactly, I'd rather put some effort into refining the question so it can be kept open

Trevor Clarke

Hey guys

derobert

Well, if you edit it to be something answerable, I'd be happy to vote to reopen as well

kdopen

g'day

Trevor Clarke

3:53 PM

1000 rep hype

ArtOfCode

Personally, I think the question does have a place here - yes, it's broad and opinion based, but we have a high tolerance for things like that.

kdopen

need 5 more points

derobert

But reopening it only to close it again as primarily opinion or too broad... that's rather silly.

ArtOfCode

@derobert Define more answerable

kdopen

Yep, I'm asking for specific suggestions here ... or even direct edits. We all have the rep for that

Is it just remove the 'free speech' stuff and make it a pure "what are the consequences?" question. But I feel that pulls some of the fangs of the question, and will attract glib answers

derobert

3:55 PM

@ArtOfCode Well, someone should be able to answer a question in a few paragraphs. And there should generally be some technical/expert basis to vote answers up or down.

So right now there is an answer, essentially "your premise is wrong", but you appear not to consider that a full answer.

kdopen

Dunno about 'a few paragraphs'. I've seen some canoncal answers on other sites that print out at over a page

Zizouz212

The question looks pretty good to me, I've already voted to reopen it

kdopen

Not that this is a canonical question

ArtOfCode

@kdopen I think the point is that it should be answerable in a few paragraphs - many of those questions are, the answerer just chose to add more.

@derobert I take your point, but I also think there is at least some basis here - it's obvious if someone states a consequence that is clearly never going to happen.

@kdopen I can take a shot at rewriting the question if you like?

derobert

@kdopen Sure, there are some that go longer. Often because someone decided to write a really thorough answer—and thanks to them for doing so!—but if it really requires pages of text to answer something, it's too much. (And those canonical ones are of course often a community effort!)

kdopen

3:59 PM

I think part of my problem is a lot of experience in the industry, primarily seeing things go sour over the years. I seriously think a time will come (and not that far off) when someone goes after a big OS project for serious money

@ArtOfCode feel free

derobert

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask, that isn't just opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/620/…

Or which isn't "Does this analogy have any consequences from people presuming a full comparison to the 1st Amendment is implied?"

kdopen

When Facebook was getting started I told my kids to either (a) stay off it, or (b) be very careful what you say. they laughed. Five years later, people were being turned down for jobs because employers didn't like what they saw on their facebook pages

derobert

... which again strikes me as primarily opinion and/or too broad (go do a study...)

kdopen

@derobert I'm specifically asking "If we take the stance that it's good to publish our code, what are the possible consequences"

As a 'movement' or 'philosophy' or 'ideology' we should be prepared to face those questions.

ArtOfCode

Try that edit on for size.

derobert

4:04 PM

@kdopen We should be, and I believe there are several book-length essays on the subject...

kdopen

@ArtOfCode love the edit, thanks

gotta work now

Martijn

4:21 PM

@kdopen are you still here? I want to make sweeping edits to that question, but not if you're not here to revert me if you disagree

I can do it later if you don't have the time for now

ArtOfCode

4:37 PM

@Martijn I have just completely rewritten it. I'd say go for it and I'll take a look, if kdopen disagrees he can revert later :)

Martijn

@ArtOfCode thanks, feel free to completely or partially revert

ArtOfCode

@Martijn sounds perfect to me

Martijn

I don't want to "run away" with the question though; kdopen still has to agree with it.

kdopen

@Martijn Looks good ... now I just need one more upvote to get awesome moderator powers so I can trash you completely ;)

Martijn

upvoted, knock yourself out ;)

Stephen Kitt

5:11 PM

Wow I have to say those are sweeping edits... It seems to me that it should be a new question, not an edit to the old one!

ArtOfCode

@StephenKitt under normal circumstances, yes, but we were trying to fix that question to get it reopened, and just editing as proxies for kdopen

Stephen Kitt

Yes I understood that, but "getting a question re-opened" shouldn't be an end in itself IMO...

Especially since it had an answer which had struck a few chords (never mind that I wrote it).

Martijn

oh, I'm on my way out, but I think how to deal with this makes a good meta question

if the question hasn't received any answers yet it's one thing, but I really don't know what the "best" way to go ahead is for questsion that do have (upvoted) answers

Stephen Kitt

Yes definitely, I'll create the appropriate question.

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Q: How much should we allow editing of closed but answered questions?

This question is prompted by Are there consequences of publishing software under a free or open source license? The original version of the question related to the "free as in speech" analogy and asked about consequences (do the consequences of free speech apply to free software, in summary). Th...

discussion closed-questions editing

Meta Data

5:40 PM

2

Q: How much should we allow editing of closed but answered questions?

This question is prompted by Are there consequences of publishing software under a free or open source license? The original version of the question related to the "free as in speech" analogy and asked about consequences (do the consequences of free speech apply to free software, in summary). Th...

discussion closed-questions editing

Trevor Clarke

Well so far I have managed to keep up with u guys despite being away from home with noting but an iPhone

Yayayau

Zizouz212

5:59 PM

Nice :)

overactor

6:53 PM

I just had a though

Maybe we should rename the site to something like "Free and Open Culture"

or "Ask Freely"

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